Toradora! - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Lol almost every single anime is predictable if the the animators give you enough foresight to what each character is thinking. Toradora is one of those anime shows in which you can actually predict the events logically and get them right most of the time, because their is massive character development between main characters and minor. Although what Ami's thinking right now is apparently vague to me, I can almost tell how everyone else will react as we get to the ending.

Not every series is predictable. I thought True Tears was up in the air until the final episode. And so far this series hasn't been predictable either.

[fish eric]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Not every series is predictable. I thought True Tears was up in the air until the final episode. And so far this series hasn't been predictable either.

I remember during the last two weekly episode threads (ep 21 & ep 20) everyone was still very unsure about whom would end up with whom.

If you havn't gone and read the spoilers in the Novel thread than it is still too hard to say which girl he will end up with if he ends up with one at all.

I mean Taiga doesn't want to ruin Minori chan's chance at finnaly being in love "you have what it takes to be Minorin's lover"

And Minori seems like she definitely wont take Ryuji away from Taiga.


The only solution is a 3way relationship.

I think the anime is going to end up as a ToraDoraMora sandwich.

There is plenty of Ryuji to go around.

[Nosauz]

shit lol wanted to give the episode an eight while i went to click vote clicked one, oh well. 8/10 for me, episode was good, its cool to have minorin kinda back to her insane quirky self, but ami moping around is just pretty lame and unlike her.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by fish eric

There is plenty of Ryuji to go around.

That statement is questionable.

[Mughi]

Discussions like this always make me laugh. I mean the show is called Tora-Dora and in the 2nd episode, Ryuji says out loud to Taiga, "If you're a Tora (Tiger) then I'll be the Dora (Dragon)." And then the fanbase spends 23 episodes debating who will end up paired up at the end...

Now, it IS possible that the author, writers and producers COULD pull a WOAH MAN!!!! "CRAZY" twist and NOT get the Tora and the Dora together at the end, but its unlikely... So as an audience, knowing that it is HIGHLY likely that the Tora and the Dora WILL be paired at the end, the fans STILL spend each episode going "How can he not KNOW that!?!? WHY is she acting THAT WAY!?!!?? WHEN is the girl I PERSONALLY prefer going to win this guy and finish this show off!!!????" and generally scratching out their own hair trying to second and third and twentyfifth guess how things will turn out and debate why it isn't realistic and yada, yada, yada...

For a moment think back to your own life... ANY relationship that you might have had where you ended up with some girl or guy you liked and probably didn't know HOW it was going to turn out each day, week and month leading up to FINALLY sharing that first kiss and date and saying suddenly one day: "Hey are we going out now?" And realizing that after all the trials and tribulations where you were batschit out of your mind not knowing what was going to happen next, SOMEHOW you really DID end up going with the person sitting there right next to you, complaining about your hair or how you're picking your nose again or how you should know by now that they hate vanilla flavor without salt on it and prefer unripe oranges...

And now what IF as you got out of bed for the day, a GIANT colorful title card with YOUR name and the name of the person you're hoping and wondering about whether they will like you or not is part of a surrealistic 1 minute music video you live through before continuing the start of your day, occurred EACH WEEK... Would that have made it easier to just relax and get up the guts to say "I love you" to the person who would one day annoy the hell out of you because they came to know you TOO well?

Well, BIZARRE at it sounds, Ryuji and Taiga can't actually SEE that surrealistic 1 minute music video they are in each week with the huge colorful title card with their nicknames on it... Any more than any of us fans in the audience can in our own lives. So they go blindly along each day not knowing what to do, or who they should tell them they love... And the other contenders for Ryuji's heart can't see the title of the show they live in either, so THEY don't know that they're doomed and making poor choices any more that we the fans in the audience knows in our own lives...

SO hey! Let's cut the characters a little break and give them some space to live out their eventualities without rushing it to be over sooner, or go against fate... Let's just enjoy the ride, cause its a fun one that will be ending all too soon.

Its just a thought...

[Darknemo2000]

Mughi, following your logic To Aru Majutsu no Index should have Index for the main heroine? Too bad that it isn't so, now does it? The show moves without pretty much any real heroine in it...If anything it would be Misaka rather than Index, so the title isn't everything. The content is much more important.

You DO understand that the Toradora could have meant TigerxDragon as in friends and companions and not a romantic relationship? This name doesn't really tell that much as you think and it certainly doesn't make discussions regarding it a crap.

And following your parallel you yourself end up being that annoying granny grumbling about crying children who are playing under the windows... Let everyone have their fun, you are no batter than those who cry about this or that.

Have some self-respect, if you realize how childish all that is, then stay away from the whining, instead of adding whining about whining on your own.

[Mughi]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Mughi, following your logic To Aru Majutsu no Index should have Index for the main heroine? Too bad that it isn't so, now does it? The show moves without pretty much any real heroine in it...If anything it would be Misaka rather than Index, so the title isn't everything. The content is much more important.

You DO understand that the Toradora could have meant TigerxDragon as in friends and companions and not a romantic relationship? This name doesn't really tell that much as you think and it certainly doesn't make discussions regarding it a crap.

And following your parallel you yourself end up being that annoying granny grumbling about crying children who are playing under the windows... Let everyone have their fun, you are no batter than those who cry about this or that.

Have some self-respect, if you realize how childish all that is, then stay away from the whining, instead of adding whining about whining on your own.

Dude, you're too serious. I'm having some fun here. I'm not saying I don't think people shouldn't discuss it, I'm just saying it makes me laugh.

Think about it a second. If my name is Bob, and I marry a girl named Jane and there were a big sign that said "The Bob and Jane show" over our heads each week, but somehow we couldn't see it, wouldn't we STILL go though all the same self doubt and false starts chasing different people?

Its just supremely amusing to me that a show named ToraDora elicits so much doubt about the endgoal. Maybe Taiga and Ryuji WON'T end up paired at the end, but I'd really enjoy being surprised at that, while having fun watching how they probably WILL get together. That's all.

Sargent Hulka had a saying for this: "Lighten up FRANCIS." And I'm just trying to do that.

[Ryuou]

If my name is Bob, and I marry a girl named Jane and there were a big sign that said "The Bob and Jane show" over our heads each week, but somehow we couldn't see it, wouldn't we STILL go though all the same self doubt and false starts chasing different people?

Well, I'd have to condemn your guys’ chasing after other people even though you're married.

But I see what you're saying. Having a title like this is like a foreshadow on steroids. If they don't get together, that could provide for some interesting story and surprise a majority of the viewers. But if they do get together, how they handle it will determine how it's received. I don't mind who gets together, as I like all three of them, as long as it's handled well and Ryuji doesn't come out looking like some male leads you just want to strangle.

[Janifuu]

Originally Posted by Mughi

Discussions like this always make me laugh. I mean the show is called Tora-Dora and in the 2nd episode, Ryuji says out loud to Taiga, "If you're a Tora (Tiger) then I'll be the Dora (Dragon)." And then the fanbase spends 23 episodes debating who will end up paired up at the end...

Now, it IS possible that the author, writers and producers COULD pull a WOAH MAN!!!! "CRAZY" twist and NOT get the Tora and the Dora together at the end, but its unlikely... So as an audience, knowing that it is HIGHLY likely that the Tora and the Dora WILL be paired at the end, the fans STILL spend each episode going "How can he not KNOW that!?!? WHY is she acting THAT WAY!?!!?? WHEN is the girl I PERSONALLY prefer going to win this guy and finish this show off!!!????" and generally scratching out their own hair trying to second and third and twentyfifth guess how things will turn out and debate why it isn't realistic and yada, yada, yada...

For a moment think back to your own life... ANY relationship that you might have had where you ended up with some girl or guy you liked and probably didn't know HOW it was going to turn out each day, week and month leading up to FINALLY sharing that first kiss and date and saying suddenly one day: "Hey are we going out now?" And realizing that after all the trials and tribulations where you were batschit out of your mind not knowing what was going to happen next, SOMEHOW you really DID end up going with the person sitting there right next to you, complaining about your hair or how you're picking your nose again or how you should know by now that they hate vanilla flavor without salt on it and prefer unripe oranges...

And now what IF as you got out of bed for the day, a GIANT colorful title card with YOUR name and the name of the person you're hoping and wondering about whether they will like you or not is part of a surrealistic 1 minute music video you live through before continuing the start of your day, occurred EACH WEEK... Would that have made it easier to just relax and get up the guts to say "I love you" to the person who would one day annoy the hell out of you because they came to know you TOO well?

Well, BIZARRE at it sounds, Ryuji and Taiga can't actually SEE that surrealistic 1 minute music video they are in each week with the huge colorful title card with their nicknames on it... Any more than any of us fans in the audience can in our own lives. So they go blindly along each day not knowing what to do, or who they should tell them they love... And the other contenders for Ryuji's heart can't see the title of the show they live in either, so THEY don't know that they're doomed and making poor choices any more that we the fans in the audience knows in our own lives...

SO hey! Let's cut the characters a little break and give them some space to live out their eventualities without rushing it to be over sooner, or go against fate... Let's just enjoy the ride, cause its a fun one that will be ending all too soon.

Its just a thought...

I second this. Pop go the shippers lawl

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by fish eric

I remember during the last two weekly episode threads (ep 21 & ep 20) everyone was still very unsure about whom would end up with whom.

Noooooooo, not really "everyone" - really just a handful of people.

[Kinku]

i really dont care who ends up with who, in the end the show produce such heart feeling story filled with laughter and crying at some point. That what i think really matter the most in this anime

[frivolity]

Originally Posted by nosauz

shit lol wanted to give the episode an eight while i went to click vote clicked one, oh well.

epic win!!!

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by frivolity

epic win!!!

You know those epic episodes which always get lots of perfect scores? Somehow there are always one or three deviants who give it a painful.

Now I know where they come from.

[Vexx]

Often such votes are mistakes or a misunderstanding of the rating (like a really tragic sad episode getting a "painful"). Sometimes they're just trolling as they're someone who has never bothered to submit a single posted thought during the run of the series. Its not that they have to post, only that they're putting their username there and it affects how much credibility other users will allow them.

It'd be about like me going into Bleach and voting "1" on every single episode just because I don't care for the series. Pointless and would just make me look trollish.

You'll notice that for most series - even the most voracious critics will vote fairly prudently.

[physics223]

I was able to write a lot more on this episode than on the previous one. The previous episode was just a distillate of action and movement, and was practically the climax of the show. This episode, however, suggested a lot beneath the surface. Why don't people seem to discuss this?

Not really complaining about the lack of discussion, but I still found this episode to be full of details that would progress the plot.

[Mughi]

Originally Posted by Ryuou

Well, I'd have to condemn your guys’ chasing after other people even though you're married.

LOL...OK, You got me on that one...I should said something like, chasing others leading up to realizing we were "the ones" for each other and thus getting married... But you clearly understood me and were giving me a jab.

Seriously though, If you've got a show like Dharma and Greg and its NOT about how they get it together and make it work, then why call it that? If you write a play called Romeo & Juliet, should the audience NOT expect they at least TRY to end up together... even if it kills them? So ToraDora pretty much says what it means... But as I said earlier if the end twists to something else, I'll be surprised and delighted at the chances the producers took... If not, it's been a pretty fun ride seeing how two disparate souls become one, even though they were looking in opposite directions all the time.

And that's what I think the take home message will end up being. If you and your friend have your backs against each other while you're looking out, sometimes you'll find that you only have to turn around to find the one to hug.

I've said before that metaphorically and archetypally speaking, Taiga and Ryuji are in the roles of Husband and Wife already. (Ami has it wrong because she's not experienced enough to see past the child phase. She assumes that Minori and Ryuji are playing parents to Taiga, but it's the other way around...) Taiga and Ryuji emotionally hold for each other the stuff they can't hold for themselves. That's a true relationship and not some imagined or lusted for one. They just aren't aware of it yet... Whether they keep it that way once they DO realize it is the big question. And it has nothing to do with who else thinks they are in love with Ryuji, or what they imagine they are sacrificing...

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Often such votes are mistakes or a misunderstanding of the rating (like a really tragic sad episode getting a "painful").

And how many of those can be attributed to perfect score as well?

Some guys even start giving perfect votes even before episode airs. So yeah, the perfect votes are not always that good indicator of what episode is. Usually painful votes should be giving to utter crap though and Toradora with maybe an exception of third episode which was pointless really is at least average series.

So votes that go instantly to painful rate are rather doubtful, as it could be due to shipping and so on. But just as doubtful are those 'perfect' votes, as again someone express their 'ZOMG! I so love it I don't care what it is about anymore!' feeling as well. So in a whole this whole voting is basically an expressing of ones liking or disliking - you can't say that those voting 'painful' are more unjust, than those voting 'perfect' as in both cases the person who votes is very much effected by the personal preferences and cannot really do proper reflection on the content (but again is proper reflection ever possible).

Personally, I very rarely give 10 or 1, those should be given only on very special occasions. In Toradora's case I give mostly 6's, 7's and 8's which is pretty high in my rating system. I haven't given 10 so far. Closest was 9 for the xmas episode which was really good.

[Janifuu]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Some guys even start giving perfect votes even before episode airs. So yeah, the perfect votes are not always that good indicator of what episode is.

I don't remember the last time a poll for an episode was put up before it had actually aired... correct me if I'm wrong though

[Waking_Dreamer]

The polls are really a gauge of the enjoyment one gets from the series rather than a truly objective and systematic breakdown of its quality.

Its really a quick glance of how the episodes of the series compare with each other, that is the peaks, lows and average satisfaction one gets from the series.

As for the title thing...Will & Grace dont hook up...

[MarmoO]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Yeah, though. Taiga isn't a Mary Sue. Mary Sues do not get suspended from school. Ever.

That's why I said "I don't like how they turned Taiga into "Mary Sue" kind of character" (somewhere along the way to this episode), maybe I'm wrong, but a character who is kind of helpless and selfless, who's always putting others before herself is "Mary Sue-ish" (or did I mess up? ). All Taiga has right now is in fact Ryuji, if she gave up on him she would be totally back to the way she was before meeting him, the way she acts is against her best interest and I don't like it.