true tears (old generic discussion thread)

[JediNight]

I'm liking the story so far, although Shin is kinda an idiot >.>

How vapid can you be not to realize immediately what "she saw right through me" is referring to. Or that carrying Noe into the gym for everyone to see would be a bad idea...

At this point I'm leaning towards Aiko -- she's nice, is a hard worker, and seems the type you could have a normal relationship with. No silly tricks screwing with you all the time and childish attitude like Noe. No pity-factor like with Hiromi and if you did something wrong she would just tell you it was nothing and just hold it against you still, etc. Aiko would tell you when something was bothering her that you did, and she's friendly and outgoing.

[faust123]

Read most of the thread and don't know whether or not this was pointed out, but why are you all jumping on Hiromi's case. If you look at the situation she is in, I think she is making the same decisions anyone would make, and I think all of her decisions can easily be rationalized (locking away her feelings - dead parents, mom of person you really like hates you // possibly lying to friend about who she likes to get said friend off her back, etc...). I really don't think she is the bad guy in all of this and I find I have no trouble sympathizing with her.

Also many of your comments on the final scene of episode 3 are missing a key point. I know Shin didn't eavesdrop intentionally, at first, however he did decide to stay and listen in. Then you guys all jump on Hiromi's case for being a liar. WTF, how about criticizing Shin for listening in on a conversation that he obviously knew he shouldn't be listening to.

I absolutely love this show and as many of you have already said, it is agonizing waiting each week for the next episode.

PS - As much as it pains me to say it, I think Ai is pretty much off limits for Shin, considering how much his best friend is in to her. :*(

[Kaiji]

@ JediNight, I agree, Ai-chan is also my fav so far, but I don't agree about the no tricks part...I mean she's dating Shin's best friend to get close to Shin!!! Lol that's pretty tricky and not really kosher in my book.

Anyway, here's a prediction...I think that Ai is going to break up with her bf soon...after the last comment he made (about how he'd like to die eating her cooking) and her reaction to that comment I think she's going to find a reason to end it soon...hmm or is this just wishful thinking?

I think she'll have dumped him within 3 episodes.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Vulcannis

I agree (well, not the half-sister part.) Hiromi has obviously liked Shin since before her father died, but doesn't want to cause any problems for her foster family, which, you know, declaring your love for your foster brother might cause. Add in that Shin's mother treats her like crap and obviously doesn't accept her, and you should be able to understand her resolve not to rock the boat there. Her declaration of love for #4 was obviously just a cover--her friend is perceptive enough to pick up on her real feelings, and she's desperate to keep that from getting out. Having Shin overhear that is pretty standard teen angst fair, but True Tears pulled it off well at least. I'm honestly baffled how anyone can see her as some kind of "compulsive liar" or think that she was somehow telling the truth. This was nothing but a white lie for misdirection, and perhaps a bit of pain/stress relief (not having to continuously deny her real feelings to her best friend, at least for a little while.)

I'm of the opinion that her befriending attempt (including the grave building) of Noe was out of jealousy, but I doubt she had anything sinister in mind. She probably hadn't even thought out what the point of it was--she just panicked.

I think Aiko was projecting when she "explained" Hiromi's actions to Shin, and that her explanation is exactly what she in turn is doing. She probably sees what a bad position she's in already... I look forward to how that will blow up.

I have to chime in in support of the Bokura ga Ita comparisons, but more in feel than specific parallels. One thing I'm loving about True Tears is just how real all the relationships feel. There seems to be substance to all of them, none seem to be just there to fill in the blanks, and I hope that pays off nicely. I also like the flow of the storytelling, there's no huge ups or downs, just steady progress, yet they manage excellent emotional cliff hangers each episode.

I agree that she lies as defense mechanism, but regardless if the lie is a malicious one or a white one it is still lying and has already lied 3 times, twice to shin and once to her best friend[not counting the time she lied to Noe).

I know that in her situation that is all she can do to keep thing stable in the household that she lives right now. She is hated already by the mother, imagine what would happen if Shin and she got together. So yes, her lying is that only thing she can do and keeping her feelings for shin inside.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

"Manipulative," "twisted," "cynical," "liar." (Shakes head.) I just don't see Hiromi that way at all. At all.

"Complicated," "sad," "victimized," "noble." Those are more the adjectives that make sense to me.

In general I agree with you, except for the context I meant "manipulative" in, which is the one the story itself presented (that she pretended to want to be friends with Noe, but that was a lie/wasn't her true objective). And she herself admitted to the lie. Please don't blindly lump my perspective with all the other ones you don't like and destroy the context of the statement, as I was explicitly disagreeing with some of the other adjectives you're disagreeing with. (In other words, I was agreeing with you more than disagreeing, but you just lumped me into the "disagree" category ) By virtue of being "complicated", you can't see any of her actions as either "black" or "white".

[Guardian Enzo]

I've been waiting for a really strong HS romance series to reach out and grab me since BGI aired. We're a long, long way from that but after three eps, I have high hopes.

[ThoHell]

This entire series is complicated! It's built on non-stop complications, but I'm enjoying it. As of right now the person that I find the most amusing is Noe, she is completely like unlike Ai and Hiromi. Ineed she has her own problems like the rest of them,but she is straight and upfront with Shin. She hasn't lied to Shin or manipulate those aorund him to get her way. Even though I want Hiromi to end up with Shin, I'm disgusted with her right now and a little of Ai, right now I'm like Noe as the match up!

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by mandarb916

I don't see how rearranging a grave, without asking prior to acting, can even be considered close to compassionate or sympathetic. How would you like it if someone came into your home, saw the ashes of your relative on an altar, and that someone decided that it was better to move the ashes into your backyard with a tombstone instead and did so without asking you? Yes, Noe is a little...wacky, but that doesn't give Hiromi the right to impose "normal" views on to Noe.

I think you are exaggerating, though I get your point. However, I don’t really see how Hiromi is imposing her views on Noe by building a ‘new’ grave. If I remember correctly, the grave was a piece of wood placed where the other chicken was living. There was no proper grave or any indication of one, but that’s beside the point. What were her true intentions in order to build the new grave? To impose her views on Noe, I doubt it. I think Hiromi mentioned that it was not right for the other chicken to live with the piece of wood (grave) inside the coop, not that her view was better or that hers was not good. Hiromi is somewhat at fault for not asking beforehand, but if you notice, Noe didn’t reproach her for doing so.

I do consider her action sympathetic and compassionate (whether you agree or not) because Hiromi lost someone dear to her and I don’t find it strange at all if she wants to build a proper grave for the chicken (who happens to be ‘precious’ to Noe).

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

"Manipulative," "twisted," "cynical," "liar." (Shakes head.) I just don't see Hiromi that way at all. At all.

"Complicated," "sad," "victimized," "noble." Those are more the adjectives that make sense to me.

But as relentlessflame says, everyone gets to make their own interpretation. We'll know better as this fascinating story evolves.

I do agree that manipulative, twisted, cynical, or any other with strong negative connotation is a bit too much to qualify Hiromi while we don’t know much about her.

[Muyasuki]

After 3 episodes of this series, I can easily say that episode 4 can not come out quick enough. This is so far my favourite Romance series of the year so far. I actually like every character shown so far in this series. Every character has had excellent development so far(though I do wish that they would give Ai more screen time). I can realistically see any of the 3 winning at the end.

Spoiler for Hiromi:

The ending of episode 3 was so nicely done. It might be a small thing to notice but if you look back at her conversation with her basketball friend, the instant after she mentions to her friend to not mention Shin's name again, she gets up and leaves. I'm pretty sure that the friend clearly didn't believe what she was saying and was going to continue the conversation and, in Hiromi's mind, if that conversation were to have continued, it would have became evident that she was lieing. The biggest part that gives that away though is the fact that she never refers to the guy by his name(though to be honest, it would be really surprising if his name was four or something).

From what I've seen of her so far, she is definitely my least favourite of the 3 female leads(though I still like her character, just not as much as the others). Out of the three, I really hope that she doesn't end up with Shin, if only for the series to be something different.

Spoiler for Another Series End:

*cough*Myself;Yourself*cough* *cough*Nanaka*cough*

It may be just me but it seems like she builds herself up on lies as in a believe she has an extremely hard time actually conveying what she actually wants to say or what she really feels, probably as a defense.

As far as Shin's mother is concerned, I believe that there is a clear reason on why she said what she said. If there wasn't, then she could have easily said something that would have caused less confusion.

Spoiler for Noe:

Her telling Shin that her giving him seeds was basically beyond her control, her jumping from the tree and "injuring" her leg. She was just really good in this episode even if she didn't really do anything in this episode.

In short, she is just too damn likable. Similarly, I don't know if this has been mentioned before but she really reminds me of Haruhi.

Spoiler for Ai:

The female with the least amount of screentime also happens to be my favourite character in the whole series(just barely beating out Noe). She had the best moments in Episode 3.

You just gotta love the irony of her conversation with Shin, as she was clearly saying exactly what she herself was doing (which is probably why I love her line of "Any girl who falls in love with someone like you will be in for a rough time" which is describing herself.) I firmly believe that she has ZERO interest in his friend at all and is just using him as a means to hang around Shin and I'm pretty sure that all three of them know this.

Did anyone else notice how Ai knew about the whole conversation about Hiromi. I have a good feeling that she pretty much can always hear what the two of them are talking about.

I think its also pretty clear that Ai is not Shin's friend's gf. I also wonder if they will
show how their (Ai and Shin's) history together began.

Even though she has the least amount of chance of winning at the moment (from what I've seen so far, I'd say 45% Hiromi, 35% Noe and 20% Ai), her path would more than likely be the most surprising as well as interesting out of the three as you can include the whole Shin and his friend dynamic pretty much can write itself.

Personally, if I had to choose in order of preference for ending, I'd go Ai, then Noe, then Hiromi.

[mandarb916]

Originally Posted by Falkor

I think you are exaggerating, though I get your point. However, I don’t really see how Hiromi is imposing her views on Noe by building a ‘new’ grave. If I remember correctly, the grave was a piece of wood placed where the other chicken was living. There was no proper grave or any indication of one, but that’s beside the point. What were her true intentions in order to build the new grave? To impose her views on Noe, I doubt it. I think Hiromi mentioned that it was not right for the other chicken to live with the piece of wood (grave) inside the coop, not that her view was better or that hers was not good. Hiromi is somewhat at fault for not asking beforehand, but if you notice, Noe didn’t reproach her for doing so.

I do consider her action sympathetic and compassionate (whether you agree or not) because Hiromi lost someone dear to her and I don’t find it strange at all if she wants to build a proper grave for the chicken (who happens to be ‘precious’ to Noe).

I suppose I shouldn't say "impose', but rather, "harassment" to describe the situation (as was indicated in my first post). Something like this is more or less on-par, imho, with what people did to Hayami's notebooks and what not in ep1 of H2O.

Besides, considering Noe saw through Hiromi's mask of wanting to be friends with Noe, there's no reason for Hiromi to show any compassion or sympathy to Noe.

Chain of events:
1. Noe/Hiromi standoff by the chicken coop
2. Hiromi tells negative rumors about Noe to Shin
3. Noe/Hiromi standoff outside the gym

Expanding on event 3, Hiromi mentions that maybe she should have talked to Noe first before moving the grave rather hesitantly. The moment Noe mentions that Hiromi was in the right, Hiromi's facial expression changes to a startled look which i believe is indicative of surprise...if Hiromi was indeed genuine about mentioning talking to Noe beforehand, I think Hiromi's facial expression would have eased up a few moments later to show a sense of relief, but atleast in the timeframe that we can see, that doesn't happen.

I think Hiromi knows full well that what she did was harassment hence the startled response when Noe brushed it off.

[nadare]

Originally Posted by faust123

Also many of your comments on the final scene of episode 3 are missing a key point. I know Shin didn't eavesdrop intentionally, at first, however he did decide to stay and listen in. Then you guys all jump on Hiromi's case for being a liar. WTF, how about criticizing Shin for listening in on a conversation that he obviously knew he shouldn't be listening to.

Thats because any normal person would do the same. I mean if you were him, wouldn't you be curious of who the person you have a crush on likes?

[Ultenth]

Heh, what's funny is that to me Hiromi's actions seem perfectly normal and explainable, and I can imagine that a lot of you out there would react similarly if put in the same situation. I think people like Ai so much because honestly she hasn't been on screen enough to show any of her flaws like the other two have. Hiromi gets a lot of screen time, and we know a lot about her character, so we know her flaws. Same thing with Noe, we know a decent amount about her, and although she doesn't seem malicious she does seem manipulative and very unusual (personally I think she is the girl most likely to go crazy and have a nice boat ending). I really think that people like Ai so much simply because they really haven't been given much of any reason to DISLIKE her, not because she's particularly likable. Personally though I think the whole thing of letting a guy flirt with you and think he has a chance so you can get with his friend is pretty messed up though, I had a girl do that to a friend of mine so she could get with me once and believe me, she had zero chance with me after I figured it out. Bro's before hoes and all that.

[puretsundere]

Originally Posted by nadare

Thats because any normal person would do the same. I mean if you were him, wouldn't you be curious of who the person you have a crush on likes?

I definitely agree. A girl who I like who is about to admit who she likes. It's not exactly something I would run away from because I'm committing the crime of eavesdropping. I can't blame Shin for staying there and hearing what she had to say because I (and I think anyone else) would have done the same thing.

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by mandarb916

I suppose I shouldn't say "impose', but rather, "harassment" to describe the situation (as was indicated in my first post). Something like this is more or less on-par, imho, with what people did to Hayami's notebooks and what not in ep1 of H2O.

Besides, considering Noe saw through Hiromi's mask of wanting to be friends with Noe, there's no reason for Hiromi to show any compassion or sympathy to Noe.

Chain of events:
1. Noe/Hiromi standoff by the chicken coop
2. Hiromi tells negative rumors about Noe to Shin
3. Noe/Hiromi standoff outside the gym

Expanding on event 3, Hiromi mentions that maybe she should have talked to Noe first before moving the grave rather hesitantly. The moment Noe mentions that Hiromi was in the right, Hiromi's facial expression changes to a startled look which i believe is indicative of surprise...if Hiromi was indeed genuine about mentioning talking to Noe beforehand, I think Hiromi's facial expression would have eased up a few moments later to show a sense of relief, but atleast in the timeframe that we can see, that doesn't happen.

I think Hiromi knows full well that what she did was harassment hence the startled response when Noe brushed it off.

I don't get some of your points, but i believe Hiromi wanted to empathize sincerely with her by building the grave.

On the version I watched she says that she was hesitant because she didn’t ask her permission first… Anyway, I find her expression ambiguous; you still don’t know what she is thinking (I’m not sure what is this supposed to mean). I believe Hiromi doesn’t know what she is doing, even less that she wants to harass Noe. How would you explain her line, “what do I want to do,” which happens to be the title of the episode? This makes me believe the episode wanted to focus on Hiromi as an insecure person, not as someone who wants to harass others because she feels ‘threatened’ (or in order to impose her views or whatever you are implying).

My chain of events (just my interpretation):
1. Hiromi meets Noe in the chicken coop. She becomes interested in her.
2. Hiromi ‘wonders’ if Shinichiro knows anything about her. She discovers that he knows no more than her (how much information would you get if you receive as response “she e-mails people underground”) and hence the ‘bad’ rumor to show that she knows more.
3. Hiromi requests Shinichiro’s help.

[Ultenth]

I view her interest in Noe as almost an onee-san reaction, she's pushed her feelings for him down, and she wants to find out more about Noe in order to see if she's fit. She knows rumors that Noe's a bit weird, but since she can't be with Shin she wants to make sure he's not with someone bad. And basically Noe knew that there was something unusual about a popular pretty sports girl like Hiromi trying to befriend her since she was the "weird girl" and had the normal distrustful reaction that a lot of school-age kids would have in that same situation. Again though, I don't think she was trying to befriend her for evil purposes, but more intelligence gathering to make sure she's suitable for Shin. I imagine if I had feelings for someone but couldn't express them because of a complex situation such as hers, I would like to personally pick out the person that they were with, to make sure they were happy and treated well.

[Manji Midou]

Originally Posted by mandarb916

I suppose I shouldn't say "impose', but rather, "harassment" to describe the situation (as was indicated in my first post). Something like this is more or less on-par, imho, with what people did to Hayami's notebooks and what not in ep1 of H2O.

Besides, considering Noe saw through Hiromi's mask of wanting to be friends with Noe, there's no reason for Hiromi to show any compassion or sympathy to Noe.

Chain of events:
1. Noe/Hiromi standoff by the chicken coop
2. Hiromi tells negative rumors about Noe to Shin
3. Noe/Hiromi standoff outside the gym

Expanding on event 3, Hiromi mentions that maybe she should have talked to Noe first before moving the grave rather hesitantly. The moment Noe mentions that Hiromi was in the right, Hiromi's facial expression changes to a startled look which i believe is indicative of surprise...if Hiromi was indeed genuine about mentioning talking to Noe beforehand, I think Hiromi's facial expression would have eased up a few moments later to show a sense of relief, but atleast in the timeframe that we can see, that doesn't happen.

I think Hiromi knows full well that what she did was harassment hence the startled response when Noe brushed it off.

I totally agree, hiromi probably wanted/expected a more negative reaction from Noe maybe to later tell Shin about it ( yes I would bet my life she would do so, it just seems she's that type of person from what I've seen so far) but Noe brushed her off like nothing, totally owning Hiromi in the process...which left Hiromi speechless as she walked away...XD

[bbduece]

Why so much hate giong towards hiromi, virtually not hate post on aiko or noe. Is it because hiromi has the most leverage?

[Holy Knight]

Meh, Hiromi is fine. Chickenoe needs to be looked at way more. Treating shin like a piece of chicken wtf? Littering the school with chicken feed!!!! Something needs to be done ASAP!!!!!111

[golthin]

Originally Posted by bbduece

Why so much hate giong towards hiromi, virtually not hate post on aiko or noe. Is it because hiromi has the most leverage?

I don't hate her myself, it is just that she is going the wrong way about everything. I know that in her mind what she is doing is a way of coping with her situation, but i think it is wrong. Living in the same household with Shin is really affecting her feelings for him. I think the reason she apologize to shin when he saw her in the bathroom is because she think that she is intruding in his life by being there.

[Falkor]

I really don’t find that much hate going around Hiromi if you compare it to certain somebody who received a Bad Ending. Hiromi is probably the most fascinating and complex character out of the three (a personal opinion) and perhaps the one I’m having the hardest time to understand.

Originally Posted by Ultenth

I view her interest in Noe as almost an onee-san reaction, she's pushed her feelings for him down, and she wants to find out more about Noe in order to see if she's fit. She knows rumors that Noe's a bit weird, but since she can't be with Shin she wants to make sure he's not with someone bad. And basically Noe knew that there was something unusual about a popular pretty sports girl like Hiromi trying to befriend her since she was the "weird girl" and had the normal distrustful reaction that a lot of school-age kids would have in that same situation. Again though, I don't think she was trying to befriend her for evil purposes, but more intelligence gathering to make sure she's suitable for Shin. I imagine if I had feelings for someone but couldn't express them because of a complex situation such as hers, I would like to personally pick out the person that they were with, to make sure they were happy and treated well.

You are making a good point. I didn't know how to convey the idea that Hiromi was actually concerned about Shinichiro instead of just jealous.