Handheld Wars

[wnkryo]

Originally Posted by hamiko_san

I Also think The PSP Will be the new leader too. And since Nintendo already lost the console wars if nintendo lets sony win this one its all over. Since nintendo doesnt believe in online gaming, I see a very..very sad future for the gamecube. But Anyways I would buy the DS just for fun and is very cheap also (149$ USD is cheap) and it will come out first I think I'll pick it up. But I still thik the PsP will win this one.

Your thinking in the right direction. Even, though nintendo is world famous for video games, it cannot continue it's console ventures (like the gamecube) if it's most monopolized industry (the handheld one) is taken over by the competition.

The facts show nintendo is dwindling in the console market (in comparison to it's competitors). The reason why nintendo didn't take the strategy that sega took to maintain it's company, which was to go from a console maker to a 3rd party video game maker, is it's monopoly on the handheld market which fills in the gaps that nintendo's console leaves behind.

I know it is will be hard for some to grasp nintendo's situation, but it can become a reality if sony or whomever, takes over the market which nintendo has in it's pocket.

I for one do not want nintendo to lose it's ground on the handheld market. But I also believe that nintendo would be much better off if they just gave up on the console market and focused on 3rd party game development; including their handheld systems.

[mantidor]

Originally Posted by wnkryo

The facts show nintendo is dwindling in the console market (in comparison to it's competitors). The reason why nintendo didn't take the strategy that sega took to maintain it's company, which was to go from a console maker to a 3rd party video game maker, is it's monopoly on the handheld market which fills in the gaps that nintendo's console leaves behind.

Not really, Sega hit bottom after THREE failed consoles (if you consider the genesis a failure..ok maybe not ), and by failure I mean they lost money (well, the last two anyway). I wouldnt call any console of Nintendo a failure since they havent lost money at all, the were actually making profit out of every cube until the price drop, as opossed to Sony or Microsoft who can afford to loose a lot of money on their consoles.

This year was the first time Nintendo report looses, and by looses I mean the didnt win as much as they wanted (these greedy companies all they want is more and more and MORE!, link here ).

Now if it took two consoles to bring Sega down, and Sega was fairly small compared to Nintendo, I would say it would take a lot more to bring Nintendo down. However its true what Yamauchi (former president of Nintendo) said, It was in the lines of "Nintendo's future depends on the success of the DS". This doenst mean that the company will broke if the DS fails, but they'll have to change their strategy about innovation, nevertheless so far I dont see the DS failing at all.

What Im wondering now is the price of the PSP, my bet is it would be around $200, maybe Sony can go crazy and sell at $100, but that would be a huge loss that Im sure the just cant take it, maybe they'll surprise us with a price of $150, who knows? but I doubt it.

Now the coolest thing about the PSP is that you carry an extra battery in your wrist!!! dont worry Ill never call any of you kiddy for wearing a bracelet ( sorry, I couldn help it )

[wnkryo]

Originally Posted by mantidor

Not really, Sega hit bottom after THREE failed consoles (if you consider the genesis a failure..ok maybe not ), and by failure I mean they lost money (well, the last two anyway). I wouldnt call any console of Nintendo a failure since they havent lost money at all, the were actually making profit out of every cube until the price drop, as opossed to Sony or Microsoft who can afford to loose a lot of money on their consoles.

If your company is going to WAIT for 3 failed consoles before they hit the hay like sega, then I doubt your judgement in business. Nintendo isn't dumb, if gamecube doesn't fair as well as the competitors or it doesn't reach it's estimated qouta, then I would assume they would take affirmitive actions.

So far nintendo is really feeling the heat. It is already dropping it's price for the gamecube way below hardware support. In other words it is losing more money making the product then selling the product. This is not always a bad marketing strategy though. Xbox is also losing ALOT of money and has been losing money from under pricing the xbox since day 1. But they choosed this market strategy so they could establish "seeds" into the gaming community, and count on those "seeds" to sprout in to some thing where they can gain alot of money that will balance the initial losses.

Don't worry though, right now Nintendo isn't going to go out of the console making business any time soon. But I would like to see what happens if the PSP dominates the market that nintendo has in it's pocket.

[X-1000]

I think PSP cause from what I've heard, It'll have good graphics and the games that'll be released for this system is cool too. But I've heard that it'll need alot of battery power w/c will come as a problem.

[JubeiYamazaki]

Originally Posted by wnkryo

If your company is going to WAIT for 3 failed consoles before they hit the hay like sega, then I doubt your judgement in business. Nintendo isn't dumb, if gamecube doesn't fair as well as the competitors or it doesn't reach it's estimated qouta, then I would assume they would take affirmitive actions.

Nintendo is that stupid. That's why ever since the next generation consoles (PSX vs. Saturn vs. N64) they've been low tier. They're too full of themselves to give a shit about other companies. For example:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nintendo Guy #1: Okay Sony and Microsoft are coming into the fray, we need to think of something! And it needs to be innovative in someway, because we're better then the norm, we're Nintendo!

Nintendo Guy #2: I got it! A high powered console named GameCube with the latest technology that plays... small discs!

Nintendo Guy #1: Brilliant!

Nintendo Guy #3: But wouldn't that require specialized equipment, and make it harder for 3rd party companies to make games? I mean XBOX's technology is basically around the same level as most PC tech in equipment and such, and the graphics are just as good... remember what happened with the N64 that's why most companies didn't want make games for us... besides since that type of technology is more widespread among the industry we can incorporate some minor differences and...

Nintendo Guy #1: Who cares about 3rd party support? WE'RE NINTENDO, WE'RE INNOVATIVE GENIUSES NO MATTER HOW BAD WE SELL, WE BREAK THE FOREGROUND, DAMNIT! ALL WE NEED IS OURSELVES! Now.. how about that controller design?

Nintendo Guy #3: Well.. okay... uhm I was thinkin about a standardized design in which will be practical in most games, and give other companies more breathing room to...

Nintendo Guy #2: I got it! How about a wierd looking button scheme with irregular button sizes, based off ONE of our games! Like how we based off the N64 controller from Mario 64!

Nintendo Guy #1: BRILLIANT!

Nintendo Guy #3: *sigh*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nintendo doesn't know what "failure" means since they're better then everyone else, in their eyes, they've never had a failure, even Virtual Boy. And Nintendo seems to be in a bad spot right now, since Bill Gates has tried repeatedly to buy Nintendo, which in someways will be a good thing if it ever happens.

[SirJeannot]

Originally Posted by dreamless

I thought the NGage is already quite hopeless? Anyway I don't expect anything can shake Nintendo's supremacy on handheld market anytime soon...

it's simply not the same use

it's like comparing the psp to a full equipped ipaq, that's non sense
the uses aren't the same

[mantidor]

wnkryo you basically repeat what I said.

Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki

Nintendo Guy #3: But wouldn't that require specialized equipment, and make it harder for 3rd party companies to make games? I mean XBOX's technology is basically around the same level as most PC tech in equipment and such, and the graphics are just as good... remember what happened with the N64 that's why most companies didn't want make games for us... besides since that type of technology is more widespread among the industry we can incorporate some minor differences and...

Nintendo Guy #1: Who cares about 3rd party support? WE'RE NINTENDO, WE'RE INNOVATIVE GENIUSES NO MATTER HOW BAD WE SELL, WE BREAK THE FOREGROUND, DAMNIT! ALL WE NEED IS OURSELVES!

You are wrong, GameCube is very developer friendly, at least much, much more than the N64, and Nintendo improve its easiness after what happen with the N64 (obviously) I dont have sources on that but the development difficulty has never been an issue with the GameCube, you are making this up!

Besides, small discs? whats wrong about that? I cant see how a game is better if its put in a DVD just because it can have longer and better cut-scenes, for that I watch movies, and honestly thats the only thing to add to a game if you have a bigger memory capacity. And being able to play DVD movies is what people call a "gimmick", specially considering most people that buy a PS2 or xbox already have a DVD player thats actually better.

Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki

how about that controller design?

Nintendo Guy #3: Well.. okay... uhm I was thinkin about a standardized design in which will be practical in most games, and give other companies more breathing room to...

Nintendo Guy #2: I got it! How about a wierd looking button scheme with irregular button sizes, based off ONE of our games! Like how we based off the N64 controller from Mario 64!

Nintendo Guy #1: BRILLIANT!

Nintendo Guy #3: *sigh*

This either proves that you've never held a Nintendo controller or you have deformed hands. Nintendo controllers ARE the best. Ive hold all three and I stick with the gamecube's. The PS2 controller is the PS1 controller basically, and that controller sucked too, the xbox is an enourmous controller thats really uncofortable to hold, its like to sausages join by a plate. And its not just me, most people I know (and that arent as fanatic fanboys as me XD) agree with this, Nintendo beats everyone regarding controllers. The problem is with game developers, the seem to not be intelligent enough to use the fantastic controller theyve been given. Do you think that the N64 controller was made with Zelda in mind even if it was developed and released a long time after, or the GameCube controller was designed thinking about Metroid prime?


I do have to agree with one thing you said. Nintendo is arrogant, very arrogant, and I dont blame them, since they have reason to, they lifted the industry from the ashes and redefine games, they are practically the only creative company in the market, but sadly this isnt enough to be successfull, and although the have reasons to be so stubborn and arrogant I dont support this behaviour, but they are changing (well they have to ) they are more willing to listen now more than ever.

imo the biggest mistake from Nintendo is to overrate gamers, they think that gamers want unique experiences and something that gives them a good time, but the average gamer is a kid who plays violent games just for the sake of it, they dont want innovation or gameplay, they want blood and boobs. how mature is that? those ESRB ratings are way too ridiculous, from what Ive played the only game that could be consider mature is Tetris (is the only game my dad enjoys playing )

[hobbs]

nintendo seem to be the only company who care about the gamers, unlike sony and xbox who just want the money. Yeah i know they all want the money in some way, but nintendo seem to be the only ones who are more into gaming in my view, i think nintendo is the best out them all, heck they started true gaming! think of the snes! ^_^ i love that console still tons!

also on controllers, i love the nintendo ones! the xbox ones are waaaaaaaaay to huge for me. hehe. And playstation ones are good. But i always prefered nintendo.

also i always thought the N64 controller looks like the space ship thing on that game with the fox in.. starfox i think its called, there was another one of it with a diff name for the sequel but im not sure of the name..well not sure of the spelling..hehe

[wnkryo]

Originally Posted by mantidor

wnkryo you basically repeat what I said.

Really? Maby you need to check twice our previous posts.

Originally Posted by mantidor

Besides, small discs? whats wrong about that? I cant see how a game is better if its put in a DVD just because it can have longer and better cut-scenes, for that I watch movies, and honestly thats the only thing to add to a game if you have a bigger memory capacity. And being able to play DVD movies is what people call a "gimmick", specially considering most people that buy a PS2 or xbox already have a DVD player thats actually better.

There's nothing wrong with smaller discs? Are you crazy? The gamecube descided not to put in the dvd player into their console because they wanted to focus on games only, and wanted to make their consumers pay less for the price of their console. But in reality, the lack of the DVD drive has turned off many 3rd party gaming companies because the smaller discs would not be able to fit the game conent that DVD discs could. You will definetely see DVD support on the next (?) nintendo console.

Originally Posted by mantidor

This either proves that you've never held a Nintendo controller or you have deformed hands. Nintendo controllers ARE the best. Ive hold all three and I stick with the gamecube's. The PS2 controller is the PS1 controller basically, and that controller sucked too, the xbox is an enourmous controller thats really uncofortable to hold, its like to sausages join by a plate. And its not just me, most people I know (and that arent as fanatic fanboys as me XD) agree with this, Nintendo beats everyone regarding controllers. The problem is with game developers, the seem to not be intelligent enough to use the fantastic controller theyve been given. Do you think that the N64 controller was made with Zelda in mind even if it was developed and released a long time after, or the GameCube controller was designed thinking about Metroid prime?

Nintendo has the best controler? LoL.

I'm begining to wonder wether your giving actuall facts or you are giving your fanboy opinions. First off, the xbox controller was a little bulky in the initiall launch of the xbox. But microsoft soon replied to the peoples complaints and they BEEN (which means a long time has passed) released a smaller more compact, and easier to hold controller which has gotton a great responce from the xbox community. Secondly, the playstation2 controller looks similar to the playstation controller because it DID NOT need to change. It was so well built that sony descided that it did not need to make any drastic changes to it. Agian, I find it ammusing that you put the ps2 controller down just because it looked like the previous one.

[wnkryo]

Originally Posted by hobbsy

hehe i find it funny how people are arguing about games. tsk. everyone is mainly just giving fan based replies here, your not gonna insult your fav console are you, instead your gonna try and make sure its the best. hehe.
this is abit like those silly do you believe in god topics which when someone says the answer you do not like you get all stressy about. hehe ^_^

The thread was made to discuss future handheld sytems and their respective companies. Ofcourse their is going to be some heated debates. But no one here is arguing. Maby your just reading what you wanna read but every thing I said was NOT fanboy typical; it was all facts that you can find from any reliable gaming source.

Every one here wants to know what other people think, that's why they post here. So if you don't want to have some one respond to your post then DONT post. It's as simple as that.

The only one ill fated here is you and your worthless responce. Now take down that (useless) homo picture.

[JubeiYamazaki]

Originally Posted by mantidor

You are wrong, GameCube is very developer friendly, at least much, much more than the N64, and Nintendo improve its easiness after what happen with the N64 (obviously) I dont have sources on that but the development difficulty has never been an issue with the GameCube, you are making this up!

Besides, small discs? whats wrong about that? I cant see how a game is better if its put in a DVD just because it can have longer and better cut-scenes, for that I watch movies, and honestly thats the only thing to add to a game if you have a bigger memory capacity. And being able to play DVD movies is what people call a "gimmick", specially considering most people that buy a PS2 or xbox already have a DVD player thats actually better.

No, it is not developer friendly, Nintendo has always required a new form of hardware just to produce games for that system, sameshit for the N64, add that plus Nintendo 64's reputation you putting money into more expensive then norm developement of games for a company who themselves don't care about 3rd party companies.

Originally Posted by mantidor

This either proves that you've never held a Nintendo controller or you have deformed hands. Nintendo controllers ARE the best. Ive hold all three and I stick with the gamecube's. The PS2 controller is the PS1 controller basically, and that controller sucked too, the xbox is an enourmous controller thats really uncofortable to hold, its like to sausages join by a plate. And its not just me, most people I know (and that arent as fanatic fanboys as me XD) agree with this, Nintendo beats everyone regarding controllers. The problem is with game developers, the seem to not be intelligent enough to use the fantastic controller theyve been given. Do you think that the N64 controller was made with Zelda in mind even if it was developed and released a long time after, or the GameCube controller was designed thinking about Metroid prime?

I almost considered not responding to this cause I thought it was a joke. Nintendo controllers are the best since when? People no longer make games for them? Everyone knows that the PSX/PS2 controller is basically a rip of Nintendo's LAST good controller design, which was from the SNES. The N64 controller was infact design for Mario 64 soley. If that was designed for Zelda, it would be way more practical, imo. But Nintendo controller was made just for Mario Sunshine, and basically had that deal with it mentality. You can complain about the XBOX controller all you want, but when it comes down to it, atleast I can play fighting games with it, which is way more then I can say for the GameCube controller.

[DekaMaster]

Originally Posted by hobbsy

nintendo seem to be the only company who care about the gamers, unlike sony and xbox who just want the money. Yeah i know they all want the money in some way, but nintendo seem to be the only ones who are more into gaming in my view, i think nintendo is the best out them all, heck they started true gaming! think of the snes! ^_^ i love that console still tons!

also on controllers, i love the nintendo ones! the xbox ones are waaaaaaaaay to huge for me. hehe. And playstation ones are good. But i always prefered nintendo.

also i always thought the N64 controller looks like the space ship thing on that game with the fox in.. starfox i think its called, there was another one of it with a diff name for the sequel but im not sure of the name..well not sure of the spelling..hehe

Nintendo cares about gamers as much as any other game company. The care enough to get their money. And if you think other wise then it's just your ninendo fanboyism flaring up and out. And they did not start true gaming if you mean console gaming and please don't presume to think they did. Atari started that. If you have itty bitty hands then you will like the gamecube controller. I love the xbox and PS2 and DC controllers.

[mantidor]

Originally Posted by DekaMaster

Nintendo cares about gamers as much as any other game company. The care enough to get their money. And if you think other wise then it's just your ninendo fanboyism flaring up and out. And they did not start true gaming if you mean console gaming and please don't presume to think they did. Atari started that. If you have itty bitty hands then you will like the gamecube controller. I love the xbox and PS2 and DC controllers.

HAHA, Atari failed miserably, and it wasnt the first console either. Console gaming as we know it today exists thanks to Nintendo, and I would consider that they did invent true gaming (this is very subjective of course), everything took off after games like Mario and Zelda, and Im sure you know that, so I dont get why you are saying that...

Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki

I almost considered not responding to this cause I thought it was a joke. Nintendo controllers are the best since when? People no longer make games for them? Everyone knows that the PSX/PS2 controller is basically a rip of Nintendo's LAST good controller design, which was from the SNES. The N64 controller was infact design for Mario 64 soley. If that was designed for Zelda, it would be way more practical, imo. But Nintendo controller was made just for Mario Sunshine, and basically had that deal with it mentality. You can complain about the XBOX controller all you want, but when it comes down to it, atleast I can play fighting games with it, which is way more then I can say for the GameCube controller.

Originally Posted by wnkryo

I'm begining to wonder wether your giving actuall facts or you are giving your fanboy opinions. First off, the xbox controller was a little bulky in the initiall launch of the xbox. But microsoft soon replied to the peoples complaints and they BEEN (which means a long time has passed) released a smaller more compact, and easier to hold controller which has gotton a great responce from the xbox community. Secondly, the playstation2 controller looks similar to the playstation controller because it DID NOT need to change. It was so well built that sony descided that it did not need to make any drastic changes to it. Agian, I find it ammusing that you put the ps2 controller down just because it looked like the previous one.

HAHAHAHA ... god, my tummy hurts... Ill leave the controller debate, first evidence point out that you havent even played with Nintendo controllers, whats the point to try to explain to you then? how can your judgement be unbiased?, second, I dont like the PS2 controller for the way it looks, I dont like it because Ive played with it and it wasnt as confortable as the Gamecube one, all controllers do their job fine, but Nintendo's is best and not only from my point of view but by everyone I know that have tried all controllers, It seems is you the one who are judging the control for the way it looks. I dont care, your a missing a lot of fun... I almost feel sorry for you.

Snes controller good? oh well...

Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki

No, it is not developer friendly, Nintendo has always required a new form of hardware just to produce games for that system, sameshit for the N64, add that plus Nintendo 64's reputation you putting money into more expensive then norm developement of games for a company who themselves don't care about 3rd party companies.

O_o! you people are horribly misinformed... the proprietary disk for the GameCube is actually really good for the game developers, its not like the have to make the disks manually the cartridges I admit were expensive, but not disks! they are disks! just disks! they are almost as cheap (if not the same) to produce as regular CDs! developers dont have to really care about them except for the memory limitation. The main and most importan reason for making it proprietary is to avoid piracy, and Nintendo cares a LOT about piracy, because they do make games, and therefore is really great for game developers as well. Sony and Microsoft hardly ever make games, and if they are involved is just in the role of publishers, so they dont care as much if theres piracy as long as their console sells well. Thats the main reason for the success of both playstations here in my country. Everyone has pirated games, and by everyone I mean really EVERYONE, I havent seen a legal game ever from all the people that have playstation (and they are quite a lot, its not just one person). how the hell can that be good for game developers?

So they main problem is memory capacity, which is simply solved by using two disks, like RE0, and I played through the whole game and I had to sweep disks maybe twice or three times (at most), and it wasnt terrible or traumatazing AT ALL. I know that unfortunatly people would bitch about such a trivial thing. The main concern of developers is not the disk memory, is the system itself, for example its said that the Saturn was really hard to develop for and thats was one of the reasons for its unfortunate demise. (and the Saturn used disks too iirc), the same with the N64 (well add to that the cartridges costs still playstation sucks and Nintendo did make a profit of the N64 )



well, almost everything is offtopic now people just skip the facts about the price of the DS and the possible price of the PSP, and how PictoChat is emmbedded with the DS hardware, along with a demo of Metroid Hunters, (isnt that just great!? XD ), but wnkryo needs a lecture in reading:

Originally Posted by wnkryo

If your company is going to WAIT for 3 failed consoles before they hit the hay like sega, then I doubt your judgement in business. Nintendo isn't dumb, if gamecube doesn't fair as well as the competitors or it doesn't reach it's estimated qouta, then I would assume they would take affirmitive actions.

Originally Posted by me

However its true what Yamauchi (former president of Nintendo) said, It was in the lines of "Nintendo's future depends on the success of the DS". This doenst mean that the company will broke if the DS fails, but they'll have to change their strategy about innovation, nevertheless so far I dont see the DS failing at all.

Notice the bold letters ^_^ now Im not sure about this one, but by affirmitive actions I think you mean change, wait... thats what I said! ^__^ you probably actually see the DS failing, but that wasnt the main point of our posts.

Originally Posted by wnkryo

So far nintendo is really feeling the heat. It is already dropping it's price for the gamecube way below hardware support. In other words it is losing more money making the product then selling the product.

Originally Posted by me

I wouldnt call any console of Nintendo a failure since they havent lost money at all, the were actually making profit out of every cube until the price drop.

notice the until, modesty apart my english is good and I know the until meant that after the price drop they stop making profit, which means they loose money on the console... wait thats what you said! ^__^

Originally Posted by wnkryo

This is not always a bad marketing strategy though. Xbox is also losing ALOT of money and has been losing money from under pricing the xbox since day 1. But they choosed this market strategy so they could establish "seeds" into the gaming community, and count on those "seeds" to sprout in to some thing where they can gain alot of money that will balance the initial losses.

Originally Posted by me

as opossed to Sony or Microsoft who can afford to loose a lot of money on their consoles.

eerrr, its the same again! ^^; well, you added that thing about the "seeds" very interesting (no really! I dont mean that as sarcasm , I know thats a good strategy)

Originally Posted by wnkryo

Don't worry though, right now Nintendo isn't going to go out of the console making business any time soon. But I would like to see what happens if the PSP dominates the market that nintendo has in it's pocket.

Originally Posted by me

Not really, Sega hit bottom after THREE failed consoles (if you consider the genesis a failure..ok maybe not ), and by failure I mean they lost money (well, the last two anyway).
[...]
Now if it took two consoles to bring Sega down, and Sega was fairly small compared to Nintendo, I would say it would take a lot more to bring Nintendo down.

I think we were thinking the same when we state that ^_^

sorry for being such an asshole, but I just had to do it! <---- (I love this smilie, why I havent used it before!? )

[wnkryo]

Your controller bit didn't make sence mantidor because for some reason you think I never played or don't own any recent or none recent nintendo consoles, and don't have the proper experience to make judgement. But I do own or have owned/played every nintendo console so I know what I'm talking about.

The post comparison wasn't really nessasary, though. I didn't read your responces very thoroughly (or much at all), so if I said some thing that you did also, then it doesn't really matter now.

[DekaMaster]

you are right about ONE thing,the first console was Pong. And that you say console gaming exists today thanks to nintendo is just ignorant. Atari started it. Weather or not it failed in the end is beside the point. In the beginning it was very popular. And don't presume to know anything about what I know. I don't let some die hard devotion to a company dictate how I think about gaming.

Your statements on controllers again show you are nothing more than a nintendo fanboy who won't admit when other things are good from other companies. To you it's "NINTENDO OWNS THE PLANET".

"(well add to that the cartridges costs still playstation sucks and Nintendo did make a profit of the N64 )"

A quote to prove my points. You care to say why Playstation sucks? I mean give reasons not the generic "Sony shouldn't be making games and consoles" or "THEY KILLED MY PUPPY"

[mantidor]

Originally Posted by DekaMaster

you are right about ONE thing,the first console was Pong. And that you say console gaming exists today thanks to nintendo is just ignorant. Atari started it. Weather or not it failed in the end is beside the point. In the beginning it was very popular. And don't presume to know anything about what I know. I don't let some die hard devotion to a company dictate how I think about gaming.

woah! now you are taking it to the extreme, since you knew about atari I assumed you knew about Nintendo, YES I assumed something about you, kill me, that makes a bad person About Nintendo Its a DAMN FACT, everyone in the gaming industry agrees, Nintendo DID lift the industry, to be more simple for you, no Nintendo = No console gaming as we know it today, would anyone venture after the market crash? it wasnt just atari being broke, it was THE WHOLE MARKET, no one, anyone would dare to try something that most surely will bring looses, Nintendo gambled and they won, and their success inspired the future generations, including SONY, end of history, its not an opinion, its just what happened.

Originally Posted by DekaMaster

Your statements on controllers again show you are nothing more than a nintendo fanboy who won't admit when other things are good from other companies. To you it's "NINTENDO OWNS THE PLANET".

Originally Posted by me

I dont like it because Ive played with it and it wasnt as confortable as the Gamecube one, all controllers do their job fine , but Nintendo's is best and not only from my point of view but by everyone I know that have tried all controllers.

... its annoying that I actually read your posts completly and you just skim them. Yes Nintendo is best, kill me again for having a damn opinion, and most of my friends an family think the same, kill them too

Originally Posted by DekaMaster

"(well add to that the cartridges costs still playstation sucks and Nintendo did make a profit of the N64 )"

A quote to prove my points. You care to say why Playstation sucks? I mean give reasons not the generic "Sony shouldn't be making games and consoles" or "THEY KILLED MY PUPPY"

LOL who is the one taking this too seriously?, I was being light hearted, trying to be a bit less heavy about all this (although Nintendo IS my religion ^^), didnt stop you from turning this into a personal attack though.

Originally Posted by wnkryo

Your controller bit didn't make sence mantidor because for some reason you think I never played or don't own any recent or none recent nintendo consoles, and don't have the proper experience to make judgement. But I do own or have owned/played every nintendo console so I know what I'm talking about.

ok, then sorry, as I said evidence pointed out that you have never played with one of this controllers, and that it seemed you were the one judging by the looks of it. I APOLOGIZE, but then again I was assuming... you like your controllers, thats fine, but I prefer the gamecube ones, they are more ergonomic and easier to play with IMO (this should be obvious but now Ive realized that the "IMO" is mandatory )

Originally Posted by wnkryo

The post comparison wasn't really nessasary, though. I didn't read your responces very thoroughly (or much at all), so if I said some thing that you did also, then it doesn't really matter now.

I know, but I loved doing it! I have the bad habit of reading every single post. Yes, I consider everyones opinion important, so I wanted to point out why I thought we were thinking the same.

And thats the main reason I want to avoid this topic, all you read from my post is the "nintendo fanboyism" and dont care to even discuss what Ive been talking about the actual topic of this thread, THE DS AND THE PSP...

hmmm... what the hell...
http://www.gamesarefun.com/gamesdb/e...?editorialid=7

sure there are pro - PSP articles, but Im not looking for them

[JubeiYamazaki]

Originally Posted by mantidor

HAHAHAHA ... god, my tummy hurts... Ill leave the controller debate, first evidence point out that you havent even played with Nintendo controllers, whats the point to try to explain to you then? how can your judgement be unbiased?, second, I dont like the PS2 controller for the way it looks, I dont like it because Ive played with it and it wasnt as confortable as the Gamecube one, all controllers do their job fine, but Nintendo's is best and not only from my point of view but by everyone I know that have tried all controllers, It seems is you the one who are judging the control for the way it looks. I dont care, your a missing a lot of fun... I almost feel sorry for you.

Snes controller good? oh well...

I've been playing since my brother's Atari my first console ever was an NES, I have a vast library of classics, hell I burned through two NES' before I retired from the NES to SNES, I've owned a SEGA Genesis/CD/32X, a 3DO and a Jaguar, and now I own a XBOX, and a PS2. I've been through 3rd party controllers to brand name controllers, I know what I'm talking about. Sony's not stupid, Sony knows that the SNES controller is a solid design, and just added two triggers, and a way better grip. That was one of PS2's just awsome, awsome selling points, reverse compatiblity From games to hardware. Even though the PS2 is basically the same as a PSX controller with just two more analog sticks, the option was still there. But anyway, as my friend is constantly saying "Nintendo needs to stop re-inventing the fucking wheel" meaning Nintendo needs to stop being so "innovative" and "unique" with their damn controllers and just find a practical design and stick to it, if it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. You should be glad that other companies are stealing Nintendo's controller design, and you should be sad that Nintendo is the only one that isn't.

And for the record I have played on a Gamecube's its my friends, I play it soley for Naruto 2. And yes the NGC controller does suck, try playing CvS2 and try doing basic cross-ups and you'll understand why all Nintendo has is Bloody Roar, CvS2, and SF: Collection. And yes, we did buy ports so we can use our Dual Shocks/MAS sticks.

Originally Posted by mantidor

O_o! you people are horribly misinformed... the proprietary disk for the GameCube is actually really good for the game developers, its not like the have to make the disks manually the cartridges I admit were expensive, but not disks! they are disks! just disks! they are almost as cheap (if not the same) to produce as regular CDs! developers dont have to really care about them except for the memory limitation. The main and most importan reason for making it proprietary is to avoid piracy, and Nintendo cares a LOT about piracy, because they do make games, and therefore is really great for game developers as well. Sony and Microsoft hardly ever make games, and if they are involved is just in the role of publishers, so they dont care as much if theres piracy as long as their console sells well. Thats the main reason for the success of both playstations here in my country. Everyone has pirated games, and by everyone I mean really EVERYONE, I havent seen a legal game ever from all the people that have playstation (and they are quite a lot, its not just one person). how the hell can that be good for game developers?

So they main problem is memory capacity, which is simply solved by using two disks, like RE0, and I played through the whole game and I had to sweep disks maybtwice or three times (at most), and it wasnt terrible or traumatazing AT ALL. I know that unfortunatly people would bitch about such a trivial thing. The main concern of developers is not the disk memory, is the system itself, for example its said that the Saturn was really hard to develop for and thats was one of the reasons for its unfortunate demise. (and the Saturn used disks too iirc), the same with the N64 (well add to that the cartridges costs still playstation sucks and Nintendo did make a profit of the N64 )

I read up to the whole pircay thing, then I saw this: "(and the Saturn used disks too iirc), the same with the N64 (well add to that the cartridges costs still playstation sucks and Nintendo did make a profit of the N64 )" Again, I thought it was a joke, then I thought about it, and if you seriously mean that... then there's really no point in me responding anymore. And I will leave you with this: http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/a...hp/t-5237.html

And by the way, theres a reason why Nintendo fears piracy, as I've stated before, they're in a bad spot, they don't want to risk losing anymore possible sales. Also there is a way to pirate games on the NGC but its so stupid its really like... uhh what's the point?

EDIT: I'm not trying to bash Nintendo or the NGC, I'm just trying to tell you, Nintendo isn't god anymore, they've made mistakes, and they're still making mistakes, I seriously consider myself more of a Nintendo fan then you, because it makes me sad, that the last Nintendo product I've owned for the last 3-4 years, has been a GBA. I want Nintendo to go back to its Golden Age, when game companies kept producing hits and didn't have to worry about all the baggage Nintendo brought upon itself. Until Nintendo loses the "all we need is us" attitude, I don't see them ever being dominate in the console scene again, and that really sucks. As for the DS vs. PSP, only time will tell.

[Avaj]

I was going to say Nintendo because of there track record with hand helds but then I remembered virtual boy... I dunno if that really qualifyed as a hand held.

Nintendo does have a much younger demographic then Sony, and kids sure have alot of time on there hands.

On looks however I think the PSP looks like a winner.

[DekaMaster]

mantidor no one is saying nintendo didn't help the market. But you are coming off as though it was the first console with good games. But you can also use that logic and say that Sega with the genesis made 16 bit gaming what it became. You just take things to far in your love for nintendo. And not once have you given a reason why sony sucks and nintendo rules.

[Yuiichi]

On the subject of Gamecube VS. PS2, i can comment.

First of all, the argument of the controlers. Since i have both consoles, i have used them both. I don't think one is better than the other, although both have downsides. The gamcube controler's main fault is the shoulder buttons and the location of the z button. When having used a PS2 controler for a year or so before i got my gamecube, pressing the shoulder buttons more than a fraction of a cm seemed like a big hastle. You have to press them untill they click, unlike the PS2's shoulder buttons which you just press gently, and they work. The Z button problem is obvious.

The PS2 controllers main fault is the R3 and L3 buttons (placed under the analog sticks for those of you who didn't know). They do work, let me tell you that much... but they sometimes get awkward when the game control scheme makes you move with only the analog sticks and use the buttons at the same time.

Now, on the subject of the medium of the games. The mini-discs (for lack of a better name) that the gamecube uses were for the purpose of piracy, as mantidor so aptly stated. Yet, the lack of memory on the discs causes lack of extra gameplay that could have been included.

For an example of this, i will go back to the era of the N64, and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. This game was truely a legend. It had lots of great story, exceptional graphics for it's time, a time of day system, tricky puzzles, and cuccoos. How much better can you get? But due to the cartriges that the N64 used, the world suffered. Think of how much bigger Hyrule field could have been? It could have been an epic. But instead, it's exactly as the name states, a field.

Nintendo sort of solved this problem with the discs, but still, a lot of deep games require 2 discs. Some games (like Star Ocean: Till the Ends of Time) would take probably 4 discs to put them on (therefore choosing not to port the game to the gamecube). Still, it stops piracy.

And on the subject of people copying PS2 games, only very disshonest people do this. I chose not to install a mod chip in my PS2 (i had the chance to get one) because it's not right to copy games from a friend. I love what Sony is doing with the PS2, so i want to support them, and the developers that make the games, so i pay for all of the games that i have. I know around 10 people with PS2's, and only 1 has a mod chip installed. Thats not a big percentage, plus, modding is really expensive, and could possibly dammage your system if you are not careful with it.

Nintendo does have some good games going for it's gamecube right about now too. Star Fox Adventures: Dinosaur Planet was surprisingly fun and rewarding. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles showed some new gameplay elements, and was quite inovative in several ways... just lacking of a story. But some of the games i was most excited about turned out to be busts. Take Metroid Prime... they could have done a wicked amazing job on this game. The graphics are exceptional, the music is good, but the gameplay is extremely lacking. I can't control the stupid thing... takeing every button on the gamecube controler... Thats a bit much, don't you think guys?

And about the subject of Sony not making any of their own games, where do you think that great games like Socom came from? SCEA, Sony Computer Entertainment America does indeed make games.

Thats all i have to say for now