The Wolverine (July 2013)

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I stopped watching X-men films after Wolverine Origins. The plot made no sense, and the scene in the bathroom when he had his claws out was so fake that I can't believe they got it past QA.

It sounds like I haven't missed anything good. I can't help but feel X-men as a franchise just isn't easy to make films about. It is in essence, about normal people hating superheroes. This is so incompatible with the rest of Marvel that I am not sure it could have worked with the Avengers (if they had the rights.)

Every Mutant Supervillain justifies humans hating mutants. Every non-mutant villain justifies Magneto. And all of a sudden the good guys have no where to go, because they are the odd ones out. Peace is impossible because the plot is written that way, which means one side rightfully should exterminate the other to truly bring peace. Xavier's efforts are a waste of time.

The comics finally gave up and just purged most of the mutants entirely. Mutants became too small a minority to be a threat, so the lynch mobs went home.

This post is rather wrong on multiple levels. First, saying you stopped after seeing Wolverine Origins makes it sound like there were a slew of other movies. There was one (note: I haven't seen it either due to how bad latter X-Men movies were).

As for the X-Men as a whole, you have to remember that they're supposed to be an allegory to gays/blacks/whatever minority is currently being hated on. Regular people hate them because they fear them. They're different, they have powers. Take this in the same context you see zealots championing anti-gay rights (note: gays don't have super powers).

Obviously this gets harder to believe in-story as time goes on, since it's hard to believe that people would hate mutants after being saved so many times. Thus, it'd be best for movies to focus mostly on remote locations. Savage Land, Asteroid M, Shi'ar, etc. This way normal people would never come to know about the X-Men's heroics, thinking it was just a school for mutants, while still making for interesting movies.

The reason they were purged in the comics was to capture this essence again. Mutants began to no longer be a minority, and it made for uninteresting stories. Whenever they needed shock value, they'd create a mutant character (usually a relatively young character), build them up for a short while, and then kill them off.

[Ithekro]

X-Men doesn't really fit in with the rest of Marvel superheroes. With the X-men there is massive oppression and hatred of Mutants, yet in most of the other series, it doesn't seem to come up. Maybe because most of the other heroes are a result of accidents, experianent, aliens, or gods.

[GDB]

Pretty much. Spider-man is the closest.

[Samari]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I stopped watching X-men films after Wolverine Origins. The plot made no sense, and the scene in the bathroom when he had his claws out was so fake that I can't believe they got it past QA.

It sounds like I haven't missed anything good. I can't help but feel X-men as a franchise just isn't easy to make films about. It is in essence, about normal people hating superheroes. This is so incompatible with the rest of Marvel that I am not sure it could have worked with the Avengers (if they had the rights.)

Every Mutant Supervillain justifies humans hating mutants. Every non-mutant villain justifies Magneto. And all of a sudden the good guys have no where to go, because they are the odd ones out. Peace is impossible because the plot is written that way, which means one side rightfully should exterminate the other to truly bring peace. Xavier's efforts are a waste of time.

The comics finally gave up and just purged most of the mutants entirely. Mutants became too small a minority to be a threat, so the lynch mobs went home.

Well there has been only one X-Men film since Wolverine Origins. And that one (First Class) was actually well received by critics and rightfully so. Origins had a lot of plot holes and character motivation problems. That wasn't really the case with First Class. The same for the first two X-Men films, especially the second one. Personally I think Singer could have done better with the first couple of installments in regards to who was actually apart of the X-Men (I wish there were more fan favorites) and who should have gotten more screen time/things to do (Cyclops, Colossus), but overall I think the first two films and First Class were pretty well done. X3 and Origins were awful.

Originally Posted by Hasumi

Can't say anything about the Wolverine anime, as I did not go near it.

The X-Men anime was great, though.

I really wasn't a fan of how Storm and Emma Frost were turned into women with a kind of innocent sexual charm almost. That and it seemed like Storm's powers were purposely recessed for some reason. It was really weird. Especially for Storm. For some reason I kept thinking there was some underlying Japanese-cultural-woman-submissive thing going on with both characters. Storm is usually depicted as a no-nonsense leader type and I just didn't get that vibe from the series.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Samari

That and it seemed like Storm's powers were purposely recessed for some reason. It was really weird. Especially for Storm.

It happens in the comics too. Not only for her, but Iceman as well. The issue is that they've been classified as Omega level mutants, and as such reasons need to be made (even if it's just them dicking around) as to why they don't just mop the floor with everyone.

[Mr. DJ]

Yeah, that did grate on me a bit, when you know Storm should be lighting everyone up like it's nothing

[GDB]

So, saw the movie yesterday. I actually really enjoyed it. Wasn't super amazing or anything, but it was at least better than X3, Wolverine Origins, Superman, and possibly better or on par with Iron Man 3 (hard to gauge since I may put a bias towards Wolverine, given that 90% of the movie is in Japan with real Japanese being spoken).

Spoiler:

Only thing that I didn't quite get is when Viper injects Mariko with the nanobug... and then it's never spoken of again. Unless the second nanobug was injected into Harada and Mariko was just injected with a sleep poison or something.

Also, stay for the mid-credit clip, as it's a lead-in to Days of Future Past.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by GDB

So, saw the movie yesterday. I actually really enjoyed it. Wasn't super amazing or anything, but it was at least better than X3, Wolverine Origins, Superman, and possibly better or on par with Iron Man 3 (hard to gauge since I may put a bias towards Wolverine, given that 90% of the movie is in Japan with real Japanese being spoken).

Spoiler:

Only thing that I didn't quite get is when Viper injects Mariko with the nanobug... and then it's never spoken of again. Unless the second nanobug was injected into Harada and Mariko was just injected with a sleep poison or something.

Also, stay for the mid-credit clip, as it's a lead-in to Days of Future Past.

Watched the movie in cinema yesterday, and I didn't know at all it existed until it got released in my country last Friday.

As far as I could tell, this film felt to me more like a side-story to Wolverine threading together his past experiences in both X3: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins; the plot of the movie focuses on how Wolverine is dealing with the aftermath after the events of X3.

It doesn't shed anything knew about the character, or bringing to topic the issue of how he can resolve his lost memories dilemma.

The film itself wasn't boring, but the romantic scenes involving Mariko and Logan together do not add chemistry into their mix; Jean and Logan in the dream world fit the perfect match.

If you're a hardcore fan exclusively to the Wolverine, then this move is for you. As for myself, the post-credits scene is the only moment that's worth my money well spent, as I separated it from the rest of the movie.

In fact, it is thanks to that post-credit scene that I learn that X-Men 4, Days of Future Past, is on its way very soon.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I enjoyed the movie overall. Then I made the mistake of trying to make sense of the story.

Spoiler for plot questions among many others I haven't begun to articulate:

1) Why did old man Yashida set up the whole ruse of transferring power to Mariko when he was planning to become effectively immortal?

2) What was Mariko's role anyway? How was she supposed to be part of Yashida's plans? There was some vague reference to her greater biological compatibility with Yashida that never amounted to anything much.

3) All that fuss to extract Logan's marrow... Wouldn't it have been easier for the Viper to simply drug him and get on with the plan in the first place? Why bother even weakening him, letting him run loose for a while, before luring him to the hyper-secret base in the mountains?

Other than the above, the amusing thing for me is that Rila Fukushima (Yukio) and Tao Okamoto (Mariko) physically resemble a couple of colleagues. Well, maybe not so amusing, since I'm trying to manage a huge crush on the latter colleague who resembles Tao.

[james0246]

I'd agree with GDB and even go a bit farther by saying "The Wolverine" is probably the best superhero film of the year (so far, I still have a lot of hope for "Thor 2"). In fact, it is one of the few Superhero films that actually manages to transcend its genre. The Wolverine is a competent, often times quite good, character drama filled with beautiful locales and authentic cityscapes added together with some wonderful action setpieces that feel organic and true to the characters and story being told. There are some (a little too many) plot contrivances and a few holes, but overall this was a damn fine theatre experience. 75/100

Of special note is just how good the models turned actors Rila Fukushima and Tao Okamoto were (there were a plethora of damn fine older Japanese male actors that popped up, especially Hiroyuki Sanada as Shingen Yashida and Hal Yamanouchi and the eldest Yoshida*). They had very little acting experience (if any), yet they were more than able to stand beside actors with years of experience. (As an aside (and somewhat jokingly), I have to say the female Japanese actors have really ruled the month of July in terms of above-average to pretty damn good performances in 2 big Hollywood blockbusters. Hopefully this well will be gone to more often in future Hollywood features .)

*I was a little confused as to why Korean-American Will Yun Lee was playing the pseudo-famous Japanese character Kenuichio Harada/Silver Samurai. His performance was certainly good, I just found the slight racebending odd...

Originally Posted by Guido

It doesn't shed anything knew about the character, or bringing to topic the issue of how he can resolve his lost memories dilemma.

That has not been a dilemma since the second film. He knows who he is now, even if all the bits and pieces aren't there. His current dilemma has everything to do with killing the woman he loves (and from that, the knowledge that everyone he loves may eventually leave him). Everything in the film was entirely focused on this dilemma from the opening mercy killing to final moment with Jean in, arguably, the white hot room. To put it simply, the film was about Wolverine healing after a traumatic experience.

[GDB]

Oh yeah, and that amazing "10 words" scene. That was perfectly done by everyone involved.

[risingstar3110]

Honestly i think the ending was bad. Too much meaningless twists.

Well correct me if i'm wrong but the way i see it, nothing would have happened if Logan just stayed in (presumably) Canada in the first place....

Spoiler for Just in case:

The grandfather and his ninja army will protect the girl since it seems his father does not plan to kill her on sight anyway. And if that old dude can't live his life forever in that armor suit, he will eventually pass on and let the grand daughter inherit everything...

...and those yakuza guys on train did more ninja stuffs than most ninja in this movie.

Nut i do noit rate it so high in the first place, so maybe i just miss out (and do not really care) on plot devices

[james0246]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Spoiler for Just in case:

The grandfather and his ninja army will protect the girl sicne it seems his father do not plan to kill her on sight anyway. And if that old dude can't live his life forever in that armor suit, he will eventually pass on adn let the grand daughter inherit everything...

Spoiler for General film spoilers.:

Old Man Yoshida would have simply moved his operations to Canada/Alaska if Logan wouldn't have come willingly. The end results would have probably been worse in that case (with Logan not having the necessary emotional support to be able to confront Jean's death or his own slight immortality).

[GDB]

Yeah, it was Canada (the Yukon, specifically).

Spoiler for Reponse to risingstar:

He still had to protect her from the Yakuza. She'd have been killed multiple times over if Logan hadn't gotten her as far from Tokyo as he did. Them having to take her back to Ueno from Nagasaki provided Harada time to gather ninja and infiltrate the manor.

And if he had refused to go, I'm sure he would've ended up drugged and dragged there in some capacity. Or moved his own stuff like james said above.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

For those who have seen it: does the story in The Wolverine made it clear that X-Men Origins: Wolverine never happened, or Fox’s just being coy and still want/trying to tie all X-Men movies together? (If it needs to be specifically mentioned, just say it in spoiler tags. I’m okay with spoilers)

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

For those who have seen it: does the story in The Wolverine made it clear that X-Men Origins: Wolverine never happened, or Fox’s just being coy and still want/trying to tie all X-Men movies together? (If it needs to be specifically mentioned, just say it in spoiler tags. I’m okay with spoilers)

There is no actual mention of the film (do the bone claws count as a reference?), but it is still implied that all of them are connected.

[GDB]

I don't recall anything from Wolverine Origins coming up at all, either explicitly or implicitly.

[wingdarkness]

Saw it last weekend and it was very good...
Very laidback for an action piece and very well timed humor...

Thought it was cool to watch a neat and tight little side story that essentially worked as a character piece...Perhaps this will give more merit to producers to make Superhero movies based on one good comic book series that people don't know about instead of having to make every comic adaptation the biggest slice of epic epicness ever epic'd...

I mean Sony, Fox, etc., aren't giving up rights anytime soon, so why not make subtle side stories like this that are just good movies that advance moments of transition in a character's life...

I've see everything this summer an I'd say Wolverine was as good if not better than everything except for Star Trek which owned the most to me this summer...Ironman3? Lets just say thank god for Downey...

The only true criticism I have of the film (and no I didn't mind that the final 30 mins of the movie actually turned into an Xmen cartoon because that's how shit goes down in comics), but it was the actress who played Viper... She was so awful she made January Jones look like an emmy winner in First Class (oh hell no I did not mean that lol^^)...

Good thing the movie only marginally focused on her because Jackman was bringing it too good for her to be the only mutant villain..

An speaking of Jackman...

i am a man, and honestly I don't regularly comment about men for various reasons, but his physical commitment to TRULY becoming the visual spectacle that is Wolverine is one of the most mind-blowing body achievements I have ever witnessed on film (we have to go back to Arnold in the 80's to appreciate this)...

I hated when Jackman was cast as Wolverine originally (for some now-crazy seeming reason I thought Vincent D'Onofrio in his early 30's looked more like the character), but I can see now that Jackman loves this character and he is the Wolverine...

[NoemiChan]

X-men is all about Wolverine now....... WTF...

[GDB]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

X-men is all about Wolverine now....... WTF...

The fact he's been in about 80% of X-Men comics since he joined, as well as the past 8 years of Avengers, often 2-3 solo books, and popping up as a guest in Spider-man and other heroes' solo books wasn't enough of a cue? Seriously, this isn't new. It's been this way for at least 30 years.