[Manga] Chapter 351 Discussion

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Lex`

That technique where snakes came out of Sasuke's sleeves; weren't his snakes like 3x bigger than the ones that Orochimaru and Anko used? Those things were like anacondas

Yeah i was thinking that also, But being an Uchiha means you have a very large snake, in this case it's two massive snakes, everything gets bigger when it has been Uchihafied.

[Goshin]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Yeah i was thinking that also, But being an Uchiha means you have a very large snake, in this case it's two massive snakes, everything gets bigger when it has been Uchihafied.

omg! lol, this explains why the girls are after him!!!

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by abazou

Thats what you think? try harder

-Ok how about Karin peforms a castration on an unsuspecting Sasuke only to learn he put her in a Genutsu and the person she actually castrated was Suigetsu? That sound more creative . Nah I am kidding but it would be interesting if Sasuke's team had a funny moment or 2. Seriously, Suigetsu looks like the most fun-loving guy but he barely made a joke. I don't know, I guess I want Sasuke's team to appear at least semi-human...

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Yeah i was thinking that also, But being an Uchiha means you have a very large snake, in this case it's two massive snakes, everything gets bigger when it has been Uchihafied.

-Or it could be Sasuke's preference for the situation. Just like growing that really grotesque wing-arm from the CS2 state. In regards to the snakes I wonder why haven't we seen any actual poison bearing one's like the viper and the cobra? All we ever see the snakes used for is immobilization and that's it. Or would sending out cobras be a low-blow for such "esteemed" ninja?

[Kyu410]

Originally Posted by rio

Thank you .

doumo arigatou ^^.

No problem.

If Sasuke could make the shadow snake jutsu(snake from sleeve) look like an anaconda then imagine what he could do with all Orochimaru's other jutsu.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Lex`

That technique where snakes came out of Sasuke's sleeves; weren't his snakes like 3x bigger than the ones that Orochimaru and Anko used? Those things were like anacondas

I honestly think Oro and the other Snake jutsu summoners can use snakes of varying sizes to fit their purpose.

Orochimaru used gigantic snakes to battle Team 7 in the forest of death. The snake that accompanied him when he approached Kabuto and Yamato was as big as the ones Sasuke used in this chapter.

Oro and Anko's hidden snakes were used like projectiles to entangle limbs while Sasuke was binding Juugo and Suigetsu up close by their entire bodies.

[Sogoro]

Originally Posted by Ryuujin

Apparently Juugo's been watching Big O somehow...

rofl thats what I was thinking haha

[abazou]

[QUOTE=Fukitsu Naruto;913068]-Ok how about Karin peforms a castration on an unsuspecting Sasuke only to learn he put her in a Genutsu and the person she actually castrated was Suigetsu? That sound more creative . Nah I am kidding but it would be interesting if Sasuke's team had a funny moment or 2. Seriously, Suigetsu looks like the most fun-loving guy but he barely made a joke. I don't know, I guess I want Sasuke's team to appear at least semi-human...


Well Suigetsu seems to be the one acting upon instinct.. the hot tempered raphael of the team. I dont know whats on his mind but so far i like the character and i dont think he'll betray Sasuke.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by gibits

I would like to take this oppurtunity to address a topic that I find dumb.

Killing intent....

It doesn't exist (at least not the way manga has described it). Which means you cannot detect it, or create it, because it doesn't freaking exist. How did Jeffery Dalhmer kill all those people? How did Albert Fish trick all those kids before he ate them? How did that Korean kid kill all those people in VT? All these people picked out prey beforehand and had a real intention to kill their targets. So why didn't their "killing intent aura" give them away? BECAUSE KILLING INTENT IS GHEY!

Even in the context of a fictional world Sasuke's "killing intent" is completely false because he has no intention to kill anyone (not even his brother but that's another debate). So how do you radiate a aura of "killing intent" when you have no intent to begin with? You can't. Yay for Kishi's poor writing yet again!

Killing intent certainly exists, but for people around you to "feel" it is the dumbest thing to come out of Japan since Pocky sticks amirite?

Hmm what? I know there is a trend with some people to call plothole and poor writting at anything lately but there's got to be a limit.
I mean your point is that it can't be detected because... It doesn't exist in real life? Are you drunk or did you forget that you are reading a manga where people use magical energy to create impossible effects?
And anyway killing intent or bloodlust or sakki since the last two translation don't exactly capture the whole meaning isn't invented by Kishimoto, it's a centuries old samourai-ish notion that you can find in countless form in literature and movies.
Since we are talking about manga you can find it in Bleach, Hunter x Hunter, Vagabond, Lone Wolf & Cub, Rurouni Kenshin and litterally thousands other titles.

[Rurouni Zeke]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Hmm what? I know there is a trend with some people to call plothole and poor writting at anything lately but there's got to be a limit.
I mean your point is that it can't be detected because... It doesn't exist in real life? Are you drunk or did you forget that you are reading a manga where people use magical energy to create impossible effects?
And anyway killing intent or bloodlust or sakki since the last two translation don't exactly capture the whole meaning isn't invented by Kishimoto, it's a centuries old samourai-ish notion that you can find in countless form in literature and movies.
Since we are talking about manga you can find it in Bleach, Hunter x Hunter, Vagabond, Lone Wolf & Cub, Rurouni Kenshin and litterally thousands other titles.

I don't think he was saying it's poor writing because it doesn't exist in real life. He was saying it's poor writing because

Originally Posted by gibits

Even in the context of a fictional world Sasuke's "killing intent" is completely false because he has no intention to kill anyone (not even his brother but that's another debate). So how do you radiate a aura of "killing intent" when you have no intent to begin with? You can't.

So basically he's saying that Sasuke has gone around not killing anyone and keeping his squad members from killing people, and it seems a bit strange to him that Sasuke can suddenly project killer intent when he doesn't intend to kill anyone. At least that's how I interpreted that part of his post.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Rurouni Zeke

I don't think he was saying it's poor writing because it doesn't exist in real life. He was saying it's poor writing because
So basically he's saying that Sasuke has gone around not killing anyone and keeping his squad members from killing people, and it seems a bit strange to him that Sasuke can suddenly project killer intent when he doesn't intend to kill anyone. At least that's how I interpreted that part of his post.

Why is it strange? He's already used killing intent on Sai before, it was Sharingan-related, but Sasuke had his Sharingan activated in this situation too. And Sasuke does intend to kill someone, Itachi. He has been willing to kill (Naruto at VoTE), and arguably has killed (Oro). This chapter was also trying to show how Sasuke has become similar to Oro, so to say that Sasuke should be incapable of projecting killing intent doesn't really make much sense. I think gibits's statement was just frustration at Sasuke showing off yet another power.

But anyways, the title of the next chapter seems to imply that this arc is coming to end and hopefully that will take people's mind off of Sasuke, whose sudden new power seems to have irritated a few people. I'm really looking forward to see how Akatsuki and Itachi himself will react to the news that Sasuke defeated Oro. They always intended to eventually kill Oro off. Maybe they'll turn their attention to Sasuke now.

[Rurouni Zeke]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Why is it strange? He's already used killing intent on Sai before, it was Sharingan-related, but Sasuke had his Sharingan activated in this situation too. And Sasuke does intend to kill someone, Itachi. He has been willing to kill (Naruto at VoTE), and arguably has killed (Oro). This chapter was also trying to show how Sasuke has become similar to Oro, so to say that Sasuke should be incapable of projecting killing intent doesn't really make much sense. I think gibits's statement was just frustration at Sasuke showing off yet another power.

You're asking the wrong person all of that; I was just saying that's how I interpreted the post. If the statement was just frustration, then I wouldn't have been able to draw a reasonable interpretation. I can't say I necessarily agree with all of it, but it is a reasonable point. I think we need to chill with this "people are only criticizing Kishimoto because Sasuke is strong" stuff. There was plenty of criticism during the Sasori fight, and there is STILL criticism about the Kazuku fight, and neither of those involved Sasuke. If people want to criticize, then let them and debate if you disagree instead of just dismissing it as frustration about this or that.

[Kyu410]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

But anyways, the title of the next chapter seems to imply that this arc is coming to end and hopefully that will take people's mind off of Sasuke, whose sudden new power seems to have irritated a few people. I'm really looking forward to see how Akatsuki and Itachi himself will react to the news that Sasuke defeated Oro. They always intended to eventually kill Oro off. Maybe they'll turn their attention to Sasuke now.

I think only Itachi will focus on Sasuke because the title did imply "Itachi's Whereabouts". I believe the next arc will focus on the Akatsuki and whether Sasuke tries to kill Itachi while keeping his team in control.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Rurouni Zeke

I don't think he was saying it's poor writing because it doesn't exist in real life. He was saying it's poor writing because
So basically he's saying that Sasuke has gone around not killing anyone and keeping his squad members from killing people, and it seems a bit strange to him that Sasuke can suddenly project killer intent when he doesn't intend to kill anyone. At least that's how I interpreted that part of his post.

He was saying it was dumb because it doesn't exist this way irl and then extended his argument to the Narutoworld.
You are making too much on the killing intent and not enough on the killing intent.
Kakashi and Zabuza were really planning to kill each other. Here their sakki made Sasuke incredibly uneasy.
Hiashi felt Hizashi's sakki when he was training Hinata. Here Hizashi wasn't technically planning to kill his brother but he felt hatred watching the scene, at best he might have thought his brother desserved to die and this was enough for Hiashi to feel his sakki.
People felt uneasy (at least) close to Gaara for the same reason. That's how Kakashi noticed Gaara when he was watching Sasuke's training from afar. Gaara wasn't planning to kill Sasuke right now but he intented to in the future.
Orochimaru's bloodlust is so strong that not only people can feel it but it can actually make them hallucinate about their own death. He doesn't have to kill them, just think about it.
Sasuke and Sai was something else or at least not only sakki since he used a Sharingan Genjutsu.

Here Sasuke used his own sakki to "suppress" Suigetsu and Juugo's will to fight, he doesn't have to really plan to kill them (even if the whole "please don't kill each other or I will have to kill you both" is kind of funny) he just have to think about it. A very powerful intent nonetheless but nothing to do with the fact that he really wish them dead or not.

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by Kyu410

I think only Itachi will focus on Sasuke because the title did imply "Itachi's Whereabouts". I believe the next arc will focus on the Akatsuki and whether Sasuke tries to kill Itachi while keeping his team in control.

Actually, I don't think we'll see [the current] Itachi in the next chapter, but we'll learn the content of the Uchiha scrolls (at least) which will more or less tell us what Itachi (and Sasuke) are trying to do.

[Rurouni Zeke]

Originally Posted by Hunter

He was saying it was dumb because it doesn't exist this way irl and then extended his argument to the Narutoworld.
You are making too much on the killing intent and not enough on the killing intent.
Kakashi and Zabuza were really planning to kill each other. Here their sakki made Sasuke incredibly uneasy.
Hiashi felt Hizashi's sakki when he was training Hinata. Here Hizashi wasn't technically planning to kill his brother but he felt hatred watching the scene, at best he might have thought his brother desserved to die and this was enough for Hiashi to feel his sakki.
People felt uneasy (at least) close to Gaara for the same reason. That's how Kakashi noticed Gaara when he was watching Sasuke's training from afar. Gaara wasn't planning to kill Sasuke right now but he intented to in the future.
Orochimaru's bloodlust is so strong that not only people can feel it but it can actually make them hallucinate about their own death. He doesn't have to kill them, just think about it.
Sasuke and Sai was something else or at least not only sakki since he used a Sharingan Genjutsu.

Here Sasuke used his own sakki to "suppress" Suigetsu and Juugo's will to fight, he doesn't have to really plan to kill them (even if the whole "please don't kill each other or I will have to kill you both" is kind of funny) he just have to think about it. A very powerful intent nonetheless.

You know, I actually agree with you. This part

He doesn't have to kill them, just think about it.

is exactly what I've always believed about killer intent. Really I just put my interpretation there because you said

I mean your point is that it can't be detected because... It doesn't exist in real life?

and I thought the main point of the bad writing statement was that he thought the detection of killer intent in this chapter wasn't making sense in the context of Sasuke's previous actions. I think your latest post did a much better job of refuting the point than the other one did. And this is exactly what I was talking about when I was saying debate rather than dismiss. You strongly disagree with his opinion, but you still debated it rather than just dismissing it as a result of something else. Anyway, I'm going to step away from this point because people seem to think I'm defending the statement rather than just clarifying it.

[Hunter]

I did understand you were just trying to clarify how you interpreted his post
My first post was adressing mostly gibits's first paragraph, I didn't really feel the need to go further into sakki mechanismes at this point but after your post I thought maybe it was neccessary, ergo my 2nd post.


Anyway back to this chapter, how do you think Sasuke will convince Juugo to come with him? Some new Sharingan-heals-cancer no jutsu, Sasuke ables to use kakashi's seal or something equivalent to help him controling himself or something else entirely?

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Rurouni Zeke

So basically he's saying that Sasuke has gone around not killing anyone and keeping his squad members from killing people, and it seems a bit strange to him that Sasuke can suddenly project killer intent when he doesn't intend to kill anyone. At least that's how I interpreted that part of his post.

Sasuke always (after the massacre) had killing intent towards his brother, just remember when he attacked him with chidori in the hotel corridor.
Also remember that Orochimaru didn't want to kill Sasuke when Sasuke was feeling killer intent, simply bacause Orochimaru wanted his body so he would never kill him, which means Orochimaru and now also Sasuke can make you feel a strong killing intent which is clearly fake, that's their ability. Sasuke in this chapter has shown that he has learned Orochimaru's abilities:
- killing intent, when faking it i would call it a sort of a genjutsu
- snake jutsu
And we will see that Sasuke has copied most of Oro's jutsu just like Kakashi or Itachi can copy other's moves.
Also Sasuke seems to have total control over his CS2 powers. I have the impression that Sasuke has hundreds of powerful jutsu, has useful jutsu in all 3 areas, he is really much better than Naruto right now. So it will be interesting to see how will Naruto catch up. Currently i think Naruto will gain awesome ninjutsu abilities and some competitive (to Sasuke and akatsuki) taijutsu abilities, however he will never use genjutsu. In the fight against Kakuzu it was already shown that Naruto can have extreme speed while still controlling kyuubi, and also his huge chakra makes him able to do ninjutsu moves which other can't (his clone did an ultimate attack, no one else could do such jutsu with a mere clone, not even Itachi could use his MS when being a clone).

[Kyu410]

Originally Posted by Rahan

Actually, I don't think we'll see [the current] Itachi in the next chapter, but we'll learn the content of the Uchiha scrolls (at least) which will more or less tell us what Itachi (and Sasuke) are trying to do.

That is highly probable. I just hope the next few chapters go the way you said it will. I really want to know more of the Uchiha clan.

[Rurouni Zeke]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I did understand you were just trying to clarify how you interpreted his post
My first post was adressing mostly gibits's first paragraph, I didn't really feel the need to go further into sakki mechanismes at this point but after your post I thought maybe it was neccessary, ergo my 2nd post.


Anyway back to this chapter, how do you think Sasuke will convince Juugo to come with him? Some new Sharingan-heals-cancer no jutsu, Sasuke ables to use kakashi's seal or something equivalent to help him controling himself or something else entirely?

Ah, I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding. As far as convincing Juugo, I too was thinking that it'll probably be a seal of some sort that will help him control himself. If Sasuke uses Kakashi's seal, then that would also imply that the seal helps one control the CS power and explain (and quell some of the fuss about) why Oro didn't use the seal to control Sasuke.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

- killing intent, when faking it i would call it a sort of a genjutsu
- snake jutsu
And we will see that Sasuke has copied most of Oro's jutsu just like Kakashi or Itachi can copy other's moves.

I don't think "killing intent" classifies as Genjutsu. Infact Sasuke clearly stated that the two are distinct abilities.

It's the concept of Sakki that Hunter described where a person (even an animal) emits their aggressive feelings and intentions, manipulating Ki which gives of an energy that when sensed, expresses this their aggressive intentions.

In Ninjutsu the ability to sense this danger is an essential survival skill.

It's like having a spider sense.

When Kakashi and Zabuza were about to square off, their killing intent was so overwhelming that it intimidated Sasuke into having suicidal thoughts. They did not portray Naruto and Sakura to be as stressed so perhaps Sasuke was better at sensing it than they were.

When Orochimaru paralyzed Sasuke and Sakura in the Forest of Death he was projecting his killing intent at both of them.

It seems that "killing intent" can be accompanied by hallucination as was the case with Oro on Sakura and Sasuke, Oro on Kakashi (seemingly) and Sasuke on Sai (or was that a Sharingan technique?).

I don't know if the person emitting killing intent controls this hallucination or not.

Maybe the term "killing intent" is misleading as aggressive intentions do not necessarily mean homicidal ones.