I finally understood the main meaning and message of Ikuni in SKU, and I must say he did a good awesome job! He is a genius! n_n
Before I say goodbye to the forum, I’d thought I’d share it as well, what I learned about the message. Ikuni might also have a reason why he’s not sharing what he meant in SKU, cause finding it on your own makes it more appealing to yourself, right?
“..The answer is always simple, people just make things complicated..”
After watching the 3 episodes for the 4th time, I cannot believe how silly I am to have overlook at it’s simple meanings.. Yep, it all fits to the bar!
Ok, let’s start! (Others I won’t mention since they’re quite obvious)
Spoiler for Episode 37:
Episode 37
Quote:
Akio: Didn’t you sleep well?
Utena: Eh..?
Akio: I can see it in your face.. Something bothering you?
*Chu-Chu Making Sandwich*
Utena: Sorta.. But it’s not something I can really talk about with anyone. Everyone has a secret they have to keep, right?
Akio: Yes. Btw, you’re not wearing your ring today.
Utena: Look.. If you got time..
Akio: Hmm?
*Anthy raises the bread Chu is making, and Chu-Chu falls down*
Utena: If you got time today after school.. Can you and I hang out togeth..
Anthy: Forgive me! This isn’t mine, it’s yours, isn’t it?
~Anthy, as usual, passes her message in a non-obvious way.. She knew Utena and Akio has been kind of ‘intimate’, but she and her brother were doing something in the shadows as well.. It’s kind of self-explanatory.. It’s her message to Utena.
Her reaction “Ooh-Ooh” (Kinda like ‘Chu-Chu’), puzzles me.
Finally, we see Touga and Saionji riding a bike, in this conversation, they mentioned Utena already knows who her prince is… (Not exactly who ‘End-of-the-World’ is, so we see Utena have a bit of expression in the next episode when her prince is but one) That is why she took out her ring as well.
Quote:
*After Utena and Akio date*
Anthy: In the end, girls are all like the Rose Brides
~ I believe, this refers to Japanese women.. The title did say “Revolutionary Girl” Utena (As Ikuni stated somewhere) is an anime where a girl acting all princely gets to do what she wants (like slaps Touga’s hand when he touched her hair) unlike all doormat girls in Japan. They have no right, even today, to do what they want, but merely obey who they are engaged to. The anime gained many female fans there as it is but of hope and fantasy of being as free as Utena…
Quote:
Anthy: I think my brother loves you as well.. Ms. Utena, I wish we could all stay like this forever
Utena wrecks the letter infront of Anthy.. It’s like, “How can you say that!?”
A triangle, really… Fooling themselves they will be close… Anthy, as heartless and calm as she always is.. Kind of self-explanatory as well (sorry, so far you get my message, just having problems explaining it.. XD )
Quote:
Jury: Come to think of it.. Even if I am a member of the student council.. All I ever think about is myself.. And I’m still thinking about myself even now..
You see, all the duelist (or even the students of Ohtori) all have desires as to why they want to reach the castle up in the sky… Some want to go to their fantasy world, some wants to be free of a precious/evil memory, some wants to change reality and the likes.
First of, why do you guys think Ikuni used ‘coffins’ instead of ‘dungeons’, ‘prison’, ‘jail’, etc.? We see in the later part, when Anthy wanted to jump off the building Utena said sorry as well, all she did was playing prince, and not really there for Anthy even if they promised each other to help one another, Utena was just really helping herself.
Coffins, as the dead Akio said in the movie, stay in Ohtori and continue living like a ‘living-corpse’, in other words, it’s like we are dead. If I put it more on reality level, let me use myself as an example… In my life, I always adored helping other people, it’s my little subconscious way of saying ‘I’m a hero’ to myself… Yes, that is what is meant as self-importance.. I wasn’t doing it 100% because I wanted to help… Living like a living corpse, after watching Utena, I wanted to be just like Utena (and I think some of us here too) we love her, her nobleness and all hero type… We see in RPGs, novels or animes that heroes are adored and loved, don’t we? Sadly, after the first run, all I did was have imagination of being Utena-like, and having a wish of dancing with someone under the stars (what I have posted before in wishes thread here and say how I envy them) I have zoned so much into my desires, that even living into this world, all I did was day dream… I asked myself, why am I being so quiet in a corner or I’m not at all with the crowd I am in? I may be there, but my heart and mind is somewhere else.. It’s like I am a ‘living corpse’ who is living in this world, in here but not doing anything human-like really… I have been stuck in the fantasy very much.
(I hope I explained it well T__T )
Anyway, as we continue, we see Nanami saying she quit the student council and Utena’s been tricked by Anthy and Akio all this time and how dense she is…
I have no idea why Kozue and Shiori appeared when Jury and Miki were making jokes on turning Utena into their love interest… Maybe it something that constraints them? I am not sure.. :tongue:
Then, after Nanami said “You people are idiots”, they all suddenly vanish, leaving Utena alone.. Which I can’t also figure out the meaning what…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Girls!
A-Shadow: There’s only one future for me, I’m going to be an actress!! (Probably Utena wanting to be a prince)
B-Shadow: And like that, you land a role in the movie, get thrust into the limelight get caught in a flashy scandal and end up with all the magazines talking about you! (Self-explanatory)
B-Shadow: In other words, you just wanted a taste of what life is like! (Being a Prince)
A-Shadow: EXACTLY!!
B-Shadow: I saw an application on your desk, are you gonna go for an audition? (Will you be going to Ohtori?)
A-Shadow: But, just a girl from drama club, they’ll just laugh at me...
B-Shadow: I wont laugh at you… (Dios giving hope to Utena… Prologue)
A-Shadow: Really? So we really are… True friends!
Then we see the ‘EXTRA’ shouting girl, put a hat on and suddenly having a manly voice (Akio)
B-Shadow: By the way, did you know that only one girl can be chosen in the audition? (It’s either Himemiya or Tenjou, we see in the end how Akio said Utena will be his princess, but after a sword pierced through her, turns towards Anthy)
Quote:
*Akio and Anthy driving*
Akio: In pain, Anthy? Well I’m not the one who causes it. The world does!
~I come to conclude “The WORLD” is reality… Reality causes Anthy pain… Akio turned to ‘End-Of-The-World’, ending reality, thus he created the fantasy world for everyone else in Ohtori who ‘The World’ hurts.
‘World Revolution’ ~ Another word for revolution is rebellion, so by reaching up the flying imaginary castle in the sky, Akio provided hope for everyone that they can rebel against the world, against reality…
And of course, we see Anthy and Utena talking about what they will do in the future. I find it funny how each joke about poison in the biscuit and tea, it’s like telling each other they kind of put a bit poison on one another so far. (And we see that rose rotating in the screen) And they both say it’s delicious, the tea and the cookie, haha.
We also see the rose rotating in the screen again, that after 10 years, they’re not there anymore… Hurray!
Before Anthy jumped forward, we see her standing on the edge of the building, nothing just reminds me of her also standing in the rose garden in the movie… In the edge (she asked Utena there if Utena was afraid standing in such a corner), it may be a sign of her giving up… When you're in darkness and a bit of light shines at you, you’re torn apart by two sides… One side of you is telling you to move forward, the other side is telling you to break down and cry.
We see Touga and Saionji asking Utena why continue? When Touga spoke of Anthy’s name, we see his eyes became of dull color… We all see in previous episodes that he had admitted his love for Utena… No, I’m not saying UtenaxAnthy here, I do believe they are friends, but somehow stronger than that… We saw how it was that when Akio spoke of him and Utena being a prince and princess in the castle in the next episode, Utena is somehow hesitating, meaning the yuri is mostly in the movie, and they both are attracted to Akio.
“Those who believes in true friendship is a fool” Touga stated. We did see Anthy stabbed Utena in the next episode, her sign of betrayal… It was because of her love for Akio, still.
We all would probably trade all our cards, and maybe to the extent of betraying friendship, for our love ones, correct? So, we can’t really blame Anthy for that.
Spoiler for Episode 38:
Episode 38
Whew! Ok, now, for one of the better realizations I had!
Let’s start! (Others I won’t mention since they’re quite obvious)
After Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku music, we see the world, and a prince above it… Symbolism… n_~
When Akio asked what have Utena has been dreaming about as he was dreaming about the castle up in the sky, he declared that he was prince and Utena was the princess… If Utena was the princess, then Anthy cannot be the princess, thus she vanishes in Utena’s side and she will forever be the rose bride.
*I’m not sure about this one but I think the sword he drew from Utena represents Utena’s noble heart… Each sword represents the strength of each duelist, I think.. n_~
We see in Utena’s flashback of Anthy wanting to totally lose all hope… But nevertheless, Utena pulls her over. I think I explained this event earlier.. n_n
Well, just for the little extra, even though it’s self explanatory, the reason Anthy believes she is the rose bride, she has no heart to be hurt with, she was just a doll… With too much pain, you become very numb.. Like 10, 000 swords, first few swords will hurt you, but others you won’t quite feel anymore as you start to feel numb from the pain… The reason I believe so, is because I myself have gone through what Anthy feels… And it’s really miserable, even if I was raised well and was kind, the moment I felt this way, I became evil myself… I hated the world and swore to do evil against it, it was unfair to have such suffering while the world is happy… While I’m stuck here, in pure darkness…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthy Himemiya
The pain I feel comes with the curse of being a rose bride
You know, even if Utena was dense as hell, the mere fact she laughs and spends time with Anthy is still hell a lot of meaning, we see Anthy broke from her usual doll-like life… It’s like a story of the injured bird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Story
Once there was a person who saw an injured bird in the streets, the person wanted to cure/help it so that person brought it home. The bird was injured by children throwing stones at it, when the person tried to fix the bird’s wing, the bird peck and attacked ruthlessly at the person because of fear of the person may cause it pain again. So all the person did was build it shelter, gave it food and water and took care of it for a while. Not too soon, the person was able to cure the bird and the bird let that person, seeing how that person has treated it, and it flew away in the sky.
So, what’s with that story? Well, it’s like this, when we try to give advice to people who we are trying to help, they may seem rude to you and angry and detest you, because, not intentionally (as the person was trying to help the bird) we are causing them more pain that way… Just be with them, show them love and laughter, and they will come to you eventually.
Going back…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
No, it’s my fault! I never realized the pain you were in..
I never noticed how much you were suffering..
And despite that, I..I..
I kept acting like a noble prince who would save you!
~I will go back to this again later.. n_n
But what I can say again is, like playing hero, it was pretty much for self-ego… For your own self when you were sub-consciously trying to help someone to appear what role you want and who do you want to be… So in the end, we merely have focused on ourselves, Utena merely really focused on herself and how she’s doing at that role she sees herself in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
The truth is, my protecting you was just for my ego!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
The night I saw you and Akio, I thought you had betrayed me… Even though you were suffering so much…
She was too busy with looking at her role, she never really understood Anthy at all, nor gave it a try, because it really isn’t what she was focused on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
After I have said we should help each other come what may!
I was the one who cheated on you!
I was the one who used you!
I was the one who betrayed you!
*Finishing that flashback*
Quote:
Utena: I’m going to free Himemiya from you!
~Free Himemiya with her torment from Akio, yes… Akio!
From what so far I have understood from this ‘witch’, ‘ten thousand swords’ and ‘prince’
Before, I do believe Akio or Dios whatever, is still is a playboy… He has made many princesses, but didn’t want to feel committed to anyone of them or something… Dios was too pressured with all the things he had done, that Himemiya went over and said, ‘I have sealed him!’ meaning, owning Dios, Dios is hers and she to Dios… And with everyone’s hatred for her, she receives 10,000 swords for Dios, she sacrificed herself. She is a ‘WITCH’ as proclaimed by the ‘Tale of the Rose’ as well by the Shadow Girls.
“I cannot be a princess because I am your sister, so I became a WITCH!” Their incest, their love, Dios responsibilities, everything! Anthy has shouldered it all, and Akio is no longer a prince… As the movie said, the truth is, he is LORD OF FLIES! Only his sister’s magic made him prince… His sister’s love, and the likes.
Quote:
Akio: Still, as I said years ago, with the passage of time… you’ve lost your pure soul and wish only to be prince.
This is my most favorite quote from all the 3 episodes, it’s what it had awaken me, and what I believe to have been my gift for my 18th birthday. You became too focused on yourself, that you think only about yourself, you become selfish, thus you lose the purity of your soul… To share, to love, to be happy, to share happiness selflessly… All of it has gone due to a person’s self-importance to himself/herself. You are really unable to help anyone, but just a feed to your ego, your ego that is in your desire, and you the ‘living corpse’ in the ‘coffin’ trapped by that desire. It doesn’t seem so cruel and yet desire seems so happy to obtain, but truth be told.. It is nothing, it is but an empty motion (as it is said in the 2nd Ending Theme of the Anime)
When they duel, you hear the song “Darkness of Sodomy, Darkness of Light, Darkness in the distance, endless endless darkness!”
~Light is hope, right? But it’s ‘darkness of light’, you succumb into your fantasy, your grave. And they duel for that belief, they fight for their fantasy/desire… The darkness of light!
This is the only reason I typed this whole finalization of the episodes 37 to 39, to share this message. As you can see, I changed my avatar as I no longer idolized Utena.. “..So impressed was she by him, she vowed to become prince herself oneday..”
I started becoming a living corpse myself, all I did was fantasized about Utena, being prince and saving the damsel in distress… Of course it’s different from us, each poster here… I wonder, as I said before, an anime won’t become dear unless you can relate to it… What really made you guys go to this forum? n_~
What makes you guys stay? You may say it’s for your friends here, that’s partially true, but this IRG forum could also symbolize Ohtori and we all in our coffin due to our desires related in this anime, eh?
Anyway, now… Instead of wanting to be ‘hero’, I just want to help people as a person, nothing of self-importance anymore… I abandon it. I hope I was able to impart the message properly, this I believe was also Ikuni’s message, lovely, isn’t it?
*Going Back*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
However, for that reason you cannot save Anthy
~Being prince.. n_~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
In the end, both the prince and the castle where eternity dwells are just illusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
I shall now reveal reality to you, the End-of-The-World
Hmm, last night, I was actually thinking End-of-the-World meant ‘reality’. Hmm, I dunno why I changed it today, but I was thinking Akio’s fantasy is Dios, to be prince… Just like Utena, that is why he keeps mentioning he was just like Utena. And now, here is the reality of him, the stinkbag. (sorry about that! Lol, I just find Akio a mere playboy jerk)
*When Akio was also blaming Utena on not rejecting him when he has a finace*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
Isn’t it unfair to pretend only you are noble and in the right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
That’s not true! I care about Himemiya!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
That’s right! And you never even tried to understand Anthy! In the end you were too busy thinking about yourself
(What I posted above n_n )
*Everything is is quite self-explanatory from here*
Utena declaring she will be prince *again* (For Himemiya’s sake this time) destroys the statue of Dios as she has ventured far more than Dios had.
Projector in Akio’s room, projecting what one’s desire is, the whole castle is starting to collapse… Everything is collapsing… Utena wants everything to end, this illusions… End of the world is losing a bit, as reality is coming in more drastically than the fantasy world he had power on, that is why he is losing..
(I remember Saionji knowing everything was an illusion, but he still wants to continue, a mark of a grave is opened to him.. He is quite foolish)
I hated it when Akio pushed Himemiya to Utena… The coward! What prince is he to Anthy? Truly, he is just a jerk..
I didn't continue 39 because:
1.) Got lazy
2.) Finding out on your own is better ^_^
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
Birth records, Baptismal records, records of Death
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
My own birth, Absolute birth.
Apocalypse..
A shining place in a desert of darkness
A gold plated Shangri-La
Day and night turning back on one another
A time-plated paradise lost
The darkness of Sodomy,
The darkness of Light,
The darkness of Distance,
Endless, endless Darkness
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalyptic Darkness!
mokushi kushimo
shimoku kumoshi
moshiku shikumo
(A sound of a coffin opening/closing?)
mokushi kushimo
shimoku kumoshi
moshiku shikumo
[That last bit isn't supposed to mean anything. It's just the syllables in "mokushi" (apocalypse) randomly put together in different ways.
Let’s now dissect the meanings!
*Wait, I wanna listen to the damn song first! :rofl:
Ok, so anyway, we have this song always played everytime Utena duels.
(A reason also is because of lack of capital, lol, but anyway..)
Quote:
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
~ First of, what word is similar to ‘Apocalypse’? It’s ‘destruction’
So it goes, “Absolute Destiny: Destruction!”
Absolute Destiny? I think, since each of the duelist have their own roles, they put themselves in a line of destiny, where everyone has a role. So, “Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!” Destruction to whatever they are trying to put themselves in… And remember this song is played on every duel, so destruction is their path.
Quote:
Birth records, Baptismal records, records of Death
~Everytime this line appears, the viewer (us) gets splashed in water, so we are like ‘born’ into this ‘world’ of fantasy… Destructive destiny.
Quote:
A shining place in a desert of darkness
A gold plated Shangri-La
Day and night turning back on one another
A time-plated paradise lost
~ Line per line… ‘A shining place in a desert of darkness’ it is like a desire in the middle of nothingness. ‘A gold plated Shangri-La’ Shangri-La means Utopia (World of Paradise). ‘Day and Night turning back on one another’ time passes by but you are not moving with time. ‘a time-plated paradise lost’ well, I explained the time, the ‘paradise lost’ is the fantasy that can never be reached, it’s lost…
Quote:
The darkness of Sodomy,
The darkness of Light,
The darkness of Distance,
Endless, endless Darkness
I explained this earlier… Line by line:
Sodomy is some kind of sex stuff, I don’t really understand this one.
‘The darkness of light’, light is hope, desire or something that can save you… But it said ‘darkness’ so whatever that desire is, bring you nothing but darkness. Each of the duelist have a desire, but when they duel, it gives them light to a darkness absolute destiny. Same goes for the 3rd line… Endless endless darkness…
Let's live our lives heroically, let's them with style!
(Just a long, long time!)
Even if the two of us are ever torn apart...
(Let go of me, take my revolution!)
In the sunlit garden, we both joined our hands
Drawing close for comfort, we both swore
Never again would we ever fall in love
(Everytime)
I see the photo of us smiling, standing cheek to cheek
I look at it and a bit of loneliness starts to fill me
(REVOLUTION!!)
Even if I dream, even if I cry, even if I get hurt
Reality keeps on coming recklessly!
I wanna find out where I am, the value of being me
Gonna take who I've been up till now
And find the strength to throw it all away
Strip down to nothing at all
Become like a rose petal blowing free!
Even if the two of us are ever torn apart,
I swear to you that I will change the world!
Alright! Let's dissect!
First of, we always see this rotating flower.. We also see it at the end of the song, but it's just Utena in the end, alone... (Could it have been indicated that it's Anthy's turn, in the end, to do the same to Utena? Since the 10,000 swords have stroke against her this time? I'm not sure myself, anyway..)
Quote:
Let's live our lives heroically, let's them with style!
(Just a long, long time!)
~ 'Let's live our lives heroically, let's live them with style!' may pertain to prince, castle, princess, white horses, etc. how else would it be 'heroically' and 'style' stuff? Then, from the Japanese song, came the English 'Just a long, long time' (the English make it easier to distinguish the difference, IMHO) so it says 'Just a long, long time' pertaining that was long ago, and we have passed that stage.
Quote:
Even if the two of us are ever torn apart...
(Let go of me, take my revolution!)
~ 'Even if the two of us are ever torn apart' if they have been separated once again, 'Let go of me' (we see the final episode of Anthy and Utena letting go of each other), 'TAKE MY REVOLUTION!!' Revolution = Rebellion, so they're gonna rebel because they promise each other they will help one another, they will rebel 'End-of-the-World' and free the other from the coffin.
Quote:
In the sunlit garden, we both joined our hands
Drawing close for comfort, we both swore
Never again would we ever fall in love
~Seriously, I have no idea.. :rofl:
Yuri? lol, I don't really have the slightest clue..
(Though we see the gate opening that leads to the dueling arena)
(We also see the chairman's tower)
Quote:
(Everytime)
I see the photo of us smiling, standing cheek to cheek
I look at it and a bit of loneliness starts to fill me
~Last episode, last scene :wink:
Quote:
(REVOLUTION!!)
Even if I dream, even if I cry, even if I get hurt,
Reality keeps on coming recklessly!
~REBELLION!! Even if I dream, even if I cry, even if I get hurt.. Reality keeps on coming recklessly..
No matter how stuck you are in time, reality keeps on moving rapidly.
Quote:
I wanna find out where I am, the value of being me
Gonna take who I've been up till now
And find the strength to throw it all away
Strip down to nothing at all
Become like a rose petal blowing free!
~Guess it's self-explanatory..
Quote:
I swear to you that I will change the world!
~Revolutionize the world! To open your coffin.. Wherever you are, I will find you, I swear..
Um, didn't you guys do the whole series back then? At least, I seem to have all the L-E files somewhere.
We did the last 3rd (27-39) because it was sitting unlicensed for years. Since the DVDs are basically out of print and hard to find, if the license has indeed expired, we are probably going to go back and sub the entire series. I am glad you enjoyed our version, though! ^^
Like another old CPM series, Slayers, I expect one of the other US companies to pick up this liscense and redistribute it. I wouldn't want to get anyone in trouble by distributing fansubs at this point while the state of the US liscense is in limbo.
I personally fansubbed the Utena Movie, though I doubt many people saw my version. We were a very small fansub group, we only ever completed a few projects and never made an official digital release. MQP Fansubs I believe is the name we used, and I'm sure I could dig up my Substation Alpha script if I really wanted to ^^;
If the dvds are out of print and the license is CONFIRMED as being expired, then I don't see the harm in doing it. That was my point, I guess.
If [.....] the license is CONFIRMED as being expired, then I don't see the harm in doing it. That was my point, I guess.
-Tofu
I agree on this part. But this is the kind of info that can only be obtained by contacting the company directly, I think. For some reason, they don't like to disclose this kind of info.
We did the last 3rd (27-39) because it was sitting unlicensed for years. Since the DVDs are basically out of print and hard to find, if the license has indeed expired, we are probably going to go back and sub the entire series. I am glad you enjoyed our version, though! ^^
Question, if this anime got licensed by an American company (like Inuyasha's and stuff) will this anime be "dumbed down" like all other animes? That's a bit scary..
How can an anime be "dumbed down"? They are only translating it, for God's sake. Hell, you don't even have to watch a translation and see the original version with subtitles.
As for where to buy the DVDs online, a spot check of all the usual places (DVDPacific, Digitaleyes, Amazon, RightStuf, Animenation) showed that Utena is not stocked pretty much anywhere. This helpful AOD thread claims that most DVDs are out of print.
You can find an occasional DVD of the movie or a preowned version. From the looks of it, eBay is the way to go.
How can an anime be "dumbed down"? They are only translating it, for God's sake. Hell, you don't even have to watch a translation and see the original version with subtitles.
You are talking about dubbing <_<
Recently, other animes like Inuyasha and many many more, were "rewritten" and "rescripted" to fit mass media in all countries so all audiences can indulge in it.
Like the current anime Maria-sama is being licensed by a company who has past experiences of rewriting and rescripting animes for mass audience.
I am not saying Utena will be rewritten nor rescripted, I simply ponder to ask that question, and it does so happens with a lot of animes lately, and animes before. I merely pointed out it would be scary if Utena (whose symbolisms meaning match no anime I've watched so far) be "dumb down" if one of those (note, not all) usual licensors were to get it.
If the dvds are out of print and the license is CONFIRMED as being expired, then I don't see the harm in doing it. That was my point, I guess.
That's the point, it has to be confirmed in some way that the licensed has lapsed.
Being out of print alone doesn't mean much, a company can create a new print run when they like. Typically a license contract will have the clause that the licensed will not "expire" unless the product is no longer available for purchase for a certain period of time (for example, 5, 10 years). Since we do not have access to the contract's fine print, we are not in a position to be able to state if the license has expired or not.
At this point in time we can only assume that it is still licensed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie
Question, if this anime got licensed by an American company (like Inuyasha's and stuff) will this anime be "dumbed down" like all other animes? That's a bit scary..
You are mixing up what happens to series that are purchased for T.V. broadcast (by stations such as 4Kids) and those series that are released on DVD.
Only a few (a very few) are "dumbed down" and only for the T.V. Release. The only real example I know of is One Piece but as far as I remember the DVD release of Inuyasha by Viz comes with the original Japanese along with English subtitles, i.e. it is uncut as far as I'm aware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie
Recently, other animes like Inuyasha and many many more, were "rewritten" and "rescripted" to fit mass media in all countries so all audiences can indulge in it.
Sorry but you are talking rubbish here. Most of them are uncut and they are not "rewritten" or "rescripted" at all. You may not like the style of the translation with the subtitles but it is not changed beyond the requirement that any translation isn't perfect (since it is a translation after all).
Sorry but this is rather off-topic to the thread. Please remember that this is the discussion thread for Utena. The DVD release for Utena certainly was not rewritten nor rescripted.
Being out of print alone doesn't mean much, a company can create a new print run when they like. Typically a license contract will have the clause that the licensed will not "expire" unless the product is no longer available for purchase for a certain period of time (for example, 5, 10 years). Since we do not have access to the contract's fine print, we are not in a position to be able to state if the license has expired or not.
If CPM has indeed filed for chapter 7 liquidation, then, in all probability, its IP (license to Utena, in this case) would be sold out by the company's creditors to other distributors.
Bankruptcy of the license holder wouldn't automatically mean the lapse of the licensing contract, unless it's specifically covered in the contract, just as you say.
So, even if CPM goes out of business, someone still owns the distribution rights to its former properties in North America.
I finished watching the series and movie just yesterday and there is still some questions that are left unanswered. By the way, the movie is okay, I kinda hate the feeling that they mixed everything up and that there should have been more yuri action in the series as well.
I never really got the feeling that Anthy quite loosened herself up, I always felt like she never did anything that showed who she really is.
And in the end, why did she end up killing Utena? She really could have saved her!!! So did Utena really fail? I mean I feel that she saved Anthy by letting Anthy save herself, which worked. So did she die? GRRRR I just didn't like the ending! lol
First, chill. Second, the movie and series are unrelated, if you didn't know. The movie essentially redoes the primary theme of the series, which says the school is a virtual prison with its own nonsensical rules. The "revolution" (which almost no one realizes) is to graduate from that mindset and go into the real world.
Think about how they also put it into a postmodern fairy tale setting by first stating there is a prince, then revealing there is no prince, just an imaginary one.
@xris
Ok, I made a mistake.. Yes it would be stupid of me not to remember Utena is in the "licensed" thread, but saying "rubbish" is not something actually expected from a mod.. That is an insult, and you keep saying words that doesn't need to be there.. Why don't you just tell me my post is irrelevant rather than "rubbish".. Hah, and I probably expect a burn after this..
@Kumani
Remember that Utena is full of symbolisms, not everything is "direct" think about it, wouldn't Akio and Anthy also have died from the castle being destroyed?
Everything indeed is pure "symbolisms" here is my earlier post for some of my interpretation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie
By the way, I don't know if anyone heard this yet, but Ikuni (director of Utena) is remastering the series.. n_n
Yay! Better animation, music and the likes.. I wonder how it'll turn out! ^_^
Oh yeah.. Just wanna share as well, for some interpretation of mine in the series..
I finally understood the main meaning and message of Ikuni in SKU, and I must say he did a good awesome job! He is a genius! n_n
Before I say goodbye to the forum, I’d thought I’d share it as well, what I learned about the message. Ikuni might also have a reason why he’s not sharing what he meant in SKU, cause finding it on your own makes it more appealing to yourself, right?
“..The answer is always simple, people just make things complicated..”
After watching the 3 episodes for the 4th time, I cannot believe how silly I am to have overlook at it’s simple meanings.. Yep, it all fits to the bar!
Ok, let’s start! (Others I won’t mention since they’re quite obvious)
Spoiler for Episode 37:
Episode 37
Quote:
Akio: Didn’t you sleep well?
Utena: Eh..?
Akio: I can see it in your face.. Something bothering you?
*Chu-Chu Making Sandwich*
Utena: Sorta.. But it’s not something I can really talk about with anyone. Everyone has a secret they have to keep, right?
Akio: Yes. Btw, you’re not wearing your ring today.
Utena: Look.. If you got time..
Akio: Hmm?
*Anthy raises the bread Chu is making, and Chu-Chu falls down*
Utena: If you got time today after school.. Can you and I hang out togeth..
Anthy: Forgive me! This isn’t mine, it’s yours, isn’t it?
~Anthy, as usual, passes her message in a non-obvious way.. She knew Utena and Akio has been kind of ‘intimate’, but she and her brother were doing something in the shadows as well.. It’s kind of self-explanatory.. It’s her message to Utena.
Her reaction “Ooh-Ooh” (Kinda like ‘Chu-Chu’), puzzles me.
Finally, we see Touga and Saionji riding a bike, in this conversation, they mentioned Utena already knows who her prince is… (Not exactly who ‘End-of-the-World’ is, so we see Utena have a bit of expression in the next episode when her prince is but one) That is why she took out her ring as well.
Quote:
*After Utena and Akio date*
Anthy: In the end, girls are all like the Rose Brides
~ I believe, this refers to Japanese women.. The title did say “Revolutionary Girl” Utena (As Ikuni stated somewhere) is an anime where a girl acting all princely gets to do what she wants (like slaps Touga’s hand when he touched her hair) unlike all doormat girls in Japan. They have no right, even today, to do what they want, but merely obey who they are engaged to. The anime gained many female fans there as it is but of hope and fantasy of being as free as Utena…
Quote:
Anthy: I think my brother loves you as well.. Ms. Utena, I wish we could all stay like this forever
Utena wrecks the letter infront of Anthy.. It’s like, “How can you say that!?”
A triangle, really… Fooling themselves they will be close… Anthy, as heartless and calm as she always is.. Kind of self-explanatory as well (sorry, so far you get my message, just having problems explaining it.. XD )
Quote:
Jury: Come to think of it.. Even if I am a member of the student council.. All I ever think about is myself.. And I’m still thinking about myself even now..
You see, all the duelist (or even the students of Ohtori) all have desires as to why they want to reach the castle up in the sky… Some want to go to their fantasy world, some wants to be free of a precious/evil memory, some wants to change reality and the likes.
First of, why do you guys think Ikuni used ‘coffins’ instead of ‘dungeons’, ‘prison’, ‘jail’, etc.? We see in the later part, when Anthy wanted to jump off the building Utena said sorry as well, all she did was playing prince, and not really there for Anthy even if they promised each other to help one another, Utena was just really helping herself.
Coffins, as the dead Akio said in the movie, stay in Ohtori and continue living like a ‘living-corpse’, in other words, it’s like we are dead. If I put it more on reality level, let me use myself as an example… In my life, I always adored helping other people, it’s my little subconscious way of saying ‘I’m a hero’ to myself… Yes, that is what is meant as self-importance.. I wasn’t doing it 100% because I wanted to help… Living like a living corpse, after watching Utena, I wanted to be just like Utena (and I think some of us here too) we love her, her nobleness and all hero type… We see in RPGs, novels or animes that heroes are adored and loved, don’t we? Sadly, after the first run, all I did was have imagination of being Utena-like, and having a wish of dancing with someone under the stars (what I have posted before in wishes thread here and say how I envy them) I have zoned so much into my desires, that even living into this world, all I did was day dream… I asked myself, why am I being so quiet in a corner or I’m not at all with the crowd I am in? I may be there, but my heart and mind is somewhere else.. It’s like I am a ‘living corpse’ who is living in this world, in here but not doing anything human-like really… I have been stuck in the fantasy very much.
(I hope I explained it well T__T )
Anyway, as we continue, we see Nanami saying she quit the student council and Utena’s been tricked by Anthy and Akio all this time and how dense she is…
I have no idea why Kozue and Shiori appeared when Jury and Miki were making jokes on turning Utena into their love interest… Maybe it something that constraints them? I am not sure.. :tongue:
Then, after Nanami said “You people are idiots”, they all suddenly vanish, leaving Utena alone.. Which I can’t also figure out the meaning what…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Girls!
A-Shadow: There’s only one future for me, I’m going to be an actress!! (Probably Utena wanting to be a prince)
B-Shadow: And like that, you land a role in the movie, get thrust into the limelight get caught in a flashy scandal and end up with all the magazines talking about you! (Self-explanatory)
B-Shadow: In other words, you just wanted a taste of what life is like! (Being a Prince)
A-Shadow: EXACTLY!!
B-Shadow: I saw an application on your desk, are you gonna go for an audition? (Will you be going to Ohtori?)
A-Shadow: But, just a girl from drama club, they’ll just laugh at me...
B-Shadow: I wont laugh at you… (Dios giving hope to Utena… Prologue)
A-Shadow: Really? So we really are… True friends!
Then we see the ‘EXTRA’ shouting girl, put a hat on and suddenly having a manly voice (Akio)
B-Shadow: By the way, did you know that only one girl can be chosen in the audition? (It’s either Himemiya or Tenjou, we see in the end how Akio said Utena will be his princess, but after a sword pierced through her, turns towards Anthy)
Quote:
*Akio and Anthy driving*
Akio: In pain, Anthy? Well I’m not the one who causes it. The world does!
~I come to conclude “The WORLD” is reality… Reality causes Anthy pain… Akio turned to ‘End-Of-The-World’, ending reality, thus he created the fantasy world for everyone else in Ohtori who ‘The World’ hurts.
‘World Revolution’ ~ Another word for revolution is rebellion, so by reaching up the flying imaginary castle in the sky, Akio provided hope for everyone that they can rebel against the world, against reality…
And of course, we see Anthy and Utena talking about what they will do in the future. I find it funny how each joke about poison in the biscuit and tea, it’s like telling each other they kind of put a bit poison on one another so far. (And we see that rose rotating in the screen) And they both say it’s delicious, the tea and the cookie, haha.
We also see the rose rotating in the screen again, that after 10 years, they’re not there anymore… Hurray!
Before Anthy jumped forward, we see her standing on the edge of the building, nothing just reminds me of her also standing in the rose garden in the movie… In the edge (she asked Utena there if Utena was afraid standing in such a corner), it may be a sign of her giving up… When you're in darkness and a bit of light shines at you, you’re torn apart by two sides… One side of you is telling you to move forward, the other side is telling you to break down and cry.
We see Touga and Saionji asking Utena why continue? When Touga spoke of Anthy’s name, we see his eyes became of dull color… We all see in previous episodes that he had admitted his love for Utena… No, I’m not saying UtenaxAnthy here, I do believe they are friends, but somehow stronger than that… We saw how it was that when Akio spoke of him and Utena being a prince and princess in the castle in the next episode, Utena is somehow hesitating, meaning the yuri is mostly in the movie, and they both are attracted to Akio.
“Those who believes in true friendship is a fool” Touga stated. We did see Anthy stabbed Utena in the next episode, her sign of betrayal… It was because of her love for Akio, still.
We all would probably trade all our cards, and maybe to the extent of betraying friendship, for our love ones, correct? So, we can’t really blame Anthy for that.
Spoiler for Episode 38:
Episode 38
Whew! Ok, now, for one of the better realizations I had!
Let’s start! (Others I won’t mention since they’re quite obvious)
After Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku music, we see the world, and a prince above it… Symbolism… n_~
When Akio asked what have Utena has been dreaming about as he was dreaming about the castle up in the sky, he declared that he was prince and Utena was the princess… If Utena was the princess, then Anthy cannot be the princess, thus she vanishes in Utena’s side and she will forever be the rose bride.
*I’m not sure about this one but I think the sword he drew from Utena represents Utena’s noble heart… Each sword represents the strength of each duelist, I think.. n_~
We see in Utena’s flashback of Anthy wanting to totally lose all hope… But nevertheless, Utena pulls her over. I think I explained this event earlier.. n_n
Well, just for the little extra, even though it’s self explanatory, the reason Anthy believes she is the rose bride, she has no heart to be hurt with, she was just a doll… With too much pain, you become very numb.. Like 10, 000 swords, first few swords will hurt you, but others you won’t quite feel anymore as you start to feel numb from the pain… The reason I believe so, is because I myself have gone through what Anthy feels… And it’s really miserable, even if I was raised well and was kind, the moment I felt this way, I became evil myself… I hated the world and swore to do evil against it, it was unfair to have such suffering while the world is happy… While I’m stuck here, in pure darkness…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthy Himemiya
The pain I feel comes with the curse of being a rose bride
You know, even if Utena was dense as hell, the mere fact she laughs and spends time with Anthy is still hell a lot of meaning, we see Anthy broke from her usual doll-like life… It’s like a story of the injured bird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Story
Once there was a person who saw an injured bird in the streets, the person wanted to cure/help it so that person brought it home. The bird was injured by children throwing stones at it, when the person tried to fix the bird’s wing, the bird peck and attacked ruthlessly at the person because of fear of the person may cause it pain again. So all the person did was build it shelter, gave it food and water and took care of it for a while. Not too soon, the person was able to cure the bird and the bird let that person, seeing how that person has treated it, and it flew away in the sky.
So, what’s with that story? Well, it’s like this, when we try to give advice to people who we are trying to help, they may seem rude to you and angry and detest you, because, not intentionally (as the person was trying to help the bird) we are causing them more pain that way… Just be with them, show them love and laughter, and they will come to you eventually.
Going back…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
No, it’s my fault! I never realized the pain you were in..
I never noticed how much you were suffering..
And despite that, I..I..
I kept acting like a noble prince who would save you!
~I will go back to this again later.. n_n
But what I can say again is, like playing hero, it was pretty much for self-ego… For your own self when you were sub-consciously trying to help someone to appear what role you want and who do you want to be… So in the end, we merely have focused on ourselves, Utena merely really focused on herself and how she’s doing at that role she sees herself in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
The truth is, my protecting you was just for my ego!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
The night I saw you and Akio, I thought you had betrayed me… Even though you were suffering so much…
She was too busy with looking at her role, she never really understood Anthy at all, nor gave it a try, because it really isn’t what she was focused on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
After I have said we should help each other come what may!
I was the one who cheated on you!
I was the one who used you!
I was the one who betrayed you!
*Finishing that flashback*
Quote:
Utena: I’m going to free Himemiya from you!
~Free Himemiya with her torment from Akio, yes… Akio!
From what so far I have understood from this ‘witch’, ‘ten thousand swords’ and ‘prince’
Before, I do believe Akio or Dios whatever, is still is a playboy… He has made many princesses, but didn’t want to feel committed to anyone of them or something… Dios was too pressured with all the things he had done, that Himemiya went over and said, ‘I have sealed him!’ meaning, owning Dios, Dios is hers and she to Dios… And with everyone’s hatred for her, she receives 10,000 swords for Dios, she sacrificed herself. She is a ‘WITCH’ as proclaimed by the ‘Tale of the Rose’ as well by the Shadow Girls.
“I cannot be a princess because I am your sister, so I became a WITCH!” Their incest, their love, Dios responsibilities, everything! Anthy has shouldered it all, and Akio is no longer a prince… As the movie said, the truth is, he is LORD OF FLIES! Only his sister’s magic made him prince… His sister’s love, and the likes.
Quote:
Akio: Still, as I said years ago, with the passage of time… you’ve lost your pure soul and wish only to be prince.
This is my most favorite quote from all the 3 episodes, it’s what it had awaken me, and what I believe to have been my gift for my 18th birthday. You became too focused on yourself, that you think only about yourself, you become selfish, thus you lose the purity of your soul… To share, to love, to be happy, to share happiness selflessly… All of it has gone due to a person’s self-importance to himself/herself. You are really unable to help anyone, but just a feed to your ego, your ego that is in your desire, and you the ‘living corpse’ in the ‘coffin’ trapped by that desire. It doesn’t seem so cruel and yet desire seems so happy to obtain, but truth be told.. It is nothing, it is but an empty motion (as it is said in the 2nd Ending Theme of the Anime)
When they duel, you hear the song “Darkness of Sodomy, Darkness of Light, Darkness in the distance, endless endless darkness!”
~Light is hope, right? But it’s ‘darkness of light’, you succumb into your fantasy, your grave. And they duel for that belief, they fight for their fantasy/desire… The darkness of light!
This is the only reason I typed this whole finalization of the episodes 37 to 39, to share this message. As you can see, I changed my avatar as I no longer idolized Utena.. “..So impressed was she by him, she vowed to become prince herself oneday..”
I started becoming a living corpse myself, all I did was fantasized about Utena, being prince and saving the damsel in distress… Of course it’s different from us, each poster here… I wonder, as I said before, an anime won’t become dear unless you can relate to it… What really made you guys go to this forum? n_~
What makes you guys stay? You may say it’s for your friends here, that’s partially true, but this IRG forum could also symbolize Ohtori and we all in our coffin due to our desires related in this anime, eh?
Anyway, now… Instead of wanting to be ‘hero’, I just want to help people as a person, nothing of self-importance anymore… I abandon it. I hope I was able to impart the message properly, this I believe was also Ikuni’s message, lovely, isn’t it?
*Going Back*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
However, for that reason you cannot save Anthy
~Being prince.. n_~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
In the end, both the prince and the castle where eternity dwells are just illusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
I shall now reveal reality to you, the End-of-The-World
Hmm, last night, I was actually thinking End-of-the-World meant ‘reality’. Hmm, I dunno why I changed it today, but I was thinking Akio’s fantasy is Dios, to be prince… Just like Utena, that is why he keeps mentioning he was just like Utena. And now, here is the reality of him, the stinkbag. (sorry about that! Lol, I just find Akio a mere playboy jerk)
*When Akio was also blaming Utena on not rejecting him when he has a finace*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
Isn’t it unfair to pretend only you are noble and in the right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utena
That’s not true! I care about Himemiya!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akio
That’s right! And you never even tried to understand Anthy! In the end you were too busy thinking about yourself
(What I posted above n_n )
*Everything is is quite self-explanatory from here*
Utena declaring she will be prince *again* (For Himemiya’s sake this time) destroys the statue of Dios as she has ventured far more than Dios had.
Projector in Akio’s room, projecting what one’s desire is, the whole castle is starting to collapse… Everything is collapsing… Utena wants everything to end, this illusions… End of the world is losing a bit, as reality is coming in more drastically than the fantasy world he had power on, that is why he is losing..
(I remember Saionji knowing everything was an illusion, but he still wants to continue, a mark of a grave is opened to him.. He is quite foolish)
I hated it when Akio pushed Himemiya to Utena… The coward! What prince is he to Anthy? Truly, he is just a jerk..
I didn't continue 39 because:
1.) Got lazy
2.) Finding out on your own is better ^_^
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
Birth records, Baptismal records, records of Death
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
My own birth, Absolute birth.
Apocalypse..
A shining place in a desert of darkness
A gold plated Shangri-La
Day and night turning back on one another
A time-plated paradise lost
The darkness of Sodomy,
The darkness of Light,
The darkness of Distance,
Endless, endless Darkness
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalyptic Darkness!
mokushi kushimo
shimoku kumoshi
moshiku shikumo
(A sound of a coffin opening/closing?)
mokushi kushimo
shimoku kumoshi
moshiku shikumo
[That last bit isn't supposed to mean anything. It's just the syllables in "mokushi" (apocalypse) randomly put together in different ways.
Let’s now dissect the meanings!
*Wait, I wanna listen to the damn song first! :rofl:
Ok, so anyway, we have this song always played everytime Utena duels.
(A reason also is because of lack of capital, lol, but anyway..)
Quote:
The Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!
~ First of, what word is similar to ‘Apocalypse’? It’s ‘destruction’
So it goes, “Absolute Destiny: Destruction!”
Absolute Destiny? I think, since each of the duelist have their own roles, they put themselves in a line of destiny, where everyone has a role. So, “Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse!” Destruction to whatever they are trying to put themselves in… And remember this song is played on every duel, so destruction is their path.
Quote:
Birth records, Baptismal records, records of Death
~Everytime this line appears, the viewer (us) gets splashed in water, so we are like ‘born’ into this ‘world’ of fantasy… Destructive destiny.
Quote:
A shining place in a desert of darkness
A gold plated Shangri-La
Day and night turning back on one another
A time-plated paradise lost
~ Line per line… ‘A shining place in a desert of darkness’ it is like a desire in the middle of nothingness. ‘A gold plated Shangri-La’ Shangri-La means Utopia (World of Paradise). ‘Day and Night turning back on one another’ time passes by but you are not moving with time. ‘a time-plated paradise lost’ well, I explained the time, the ‘paradise lost’ is the fantasy that can never be reached, it’s lost…
Quote:
The darkness of Sodomy,
The darkness of Light,
The darkness of Distance,
Endless, endless Darkness
I explained this earlier… Line by line:
Sodomy is some kind of sex stuff, I don’t really understand this one.
‘The darkness of light’, light is hope, desire or something that can save you… But it said ‘darkness’ so whatever that desire is, bring you nothing but darkness. Each of the duelist have a desire, but when they duel, it gives them light to a darkness absolute destiny. Same goes for the 3rd line… Endless endless darkness…
Let's live our lives heroically, let's them with style!
(Just a long, long time!)
Even if the two of us are ever torn apart...
(Let go of me, take my revolution!)
In the sunlit garden, we both joined our hands
Drawing close for comfort, we both swore
Never again would we ever fall in love
(Everytime)
I see the photo of us smiling, standing cheek to cheek
I look at it and a bit of loneliness starts to fill me
(REVOLUTION!!)
Even if I dream, even if I cry, even if I get hurt
Reality keeps on coming recklessly!
I wanna find out where I am, the value of being me
Gonna take who I've been up till now
And find the strength to throw it all away
Strip down to nothing at all
Become like a rose petal blowing free!
Even if the two of us are ever torn apart,
I swear to you that I will change the world!
Alright! Let's dissect!
First of, we always see this rotating flower.. We also see it at the end of the song, but it's just Utena in the end, alone... (Could it have been indicated that it's Anthy's turn, in the end, to do the same to Utena? Since the 10,000 swords have stroke against her this time? I'm not sure myself, anyway..)
Quote:
Let's live our lives heroically, let's them with style!
(Just a long, long time!)
~ 'Let's live our lives heroically, let's live them with style!' may pertain to prince, castle, princess, white horses, etc. how else would it be 'heroically' and 'style' stuff? Then, from the Japanese song, came the English 'Just a long, long time' (the English make it easier to distinguish the difference, IMHO) so it says 'Just a long, long time' pertaining that was long ago, and we have passed that stage.
Quote:
Even if the two of us are ever torn apart...
(Let go of me, take my revolution!)
~ 'Even if the two of us are ever torn apart' if they have been separated once again, 'Let go of me' (we see the final episode of Anthy and Utena letting go of each other), 'TAKE MY REVOLUTION!!' Revolution = Rebellion, so they're gonna rebel because they promise each other they will help one another, they will rebel 'End-of-the-World' and free the other from the coffin.
Quote:
In the sunlit garden, we both joined our hands
Drawing close for comfort, we both swore
Never again would we ever fall in love
~Seriously, I have no idea.. :rofl:
Yuri? lol, I don't really have the slightest clue..
(Though we see the gate opening that leads to the dueling arena)
(We also see the chairman's tower)
Quote:
(Everytime)
I see the photo of us smiling, standing cheek to cheek
I look at it and a bit of loneliness starts to fill me
~Last episode, last scene :wink:
Quote:
(REVOLUTION!!)
Even if I dream, even if I cry, even if I get hurt,
Reality keeps on coming recklessly!
~REBELLION!! Even if I dream, even if I cry, even if I get hurt.. Reality keeps on coming recklessly..
No matter how stuck you are in time, reality keeps on moving rapidly.
Quote:
I wanna find out where I am, the value of being me
Gonna take who I've been up till now
And find the strength to throw it all away
Strip down to nothing at all
Become like a rose petal blowing free!
~Guess it's self-explanatory..
Quote:
I swear to you that I will change the world!
~Revolutionize the world! To open your coffin.. Wherever you are, I will find you, I swear..
@ wavedash, I am chilled dude, what's your problem? and I already knew that the movie is ambiguous to the series, it's pretty obvious!!
@ stephanie, yeah thanks girl, I pretty much read everything you wrote there, though you didn't write episode 39 it answered my questions and you are totally right! good job! and I love that link!!! it's so awesome!!!!!!
And, of course, wouldn't you think Anthy died with the 10,000 swords piercing through her? In my opinion, Utena didn't die.. And the link would probably take out that numbness feeling inside you n_n
I wanna talk about what "THE ROSE" means, I wanna have a discussion about it..
Here's what I believe it could have meant:
"What the Rose Means"
I haven't really given much thought about finding this one out, but lilgumba made a wallpaper, and when I saw it.. "BOOM!!" right in the face! (well, I'm not sure if this subject has been talked about, but so far I haven't seen one )
Here's the wallpaper made by lilgumba:
*Click to Enlarge*
First of, look what I posted the meaning of Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku (Absolute Destiny: Apocalypse) in my last post.
As they ride the elevator, we see them dress in "their roles" as well..
Anyway, the reason I went back to this, I will relate both of this "Pre-Duel" theme with the "Rose" symbol I am talking about..
Anyway, if we go here: Watch this Video First, we can see some English Subs of their dance (UtenaxAnthy)
And the song starts with "this rose is our destiny", I believed the rose symbolizes their "destiny" or "roles" they put themselves in.. That is why when the rose has been removed in their duels, they loose..
"Because I've never forgotten our promise" as said in the song, I believed this reverts back to the episodes where Utena promised Anthy she will be "prince" to save Anthy from her torture..
Also, as they dance, their "roles" reflect themselves in the water, and in that water, we see the "roses"
Well, so in my conclusion, the rose symbolizes "destiny".. However, this are just my interpretations.. I could be wrong. Also, I was going to say something more, and I forgot! D8
2007-12-20, 12:33
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