Kanon 2006 (Generic Discussion)

[Vexx]

ANN's credibility has been null and void for me for quite a long time now. They seem to relish picking reviewers who inherently hate whatever genre series they're providing their "overview" for. I suppose it ups their hitrates.

ANN's database routinely has some of the most uninformed, ill-informed, clueless "reviews" of any website I visit to check new shows out. They just aren't on my radar much anymore. A typical ANN review might look like:
"Watchin Kannon. Where are the explosions? This sucks... the girlz dun even take ther clothes off. Not romantic at all!"

And this is a feature of more than a few forums and websites: confusing jaded negativity with being "cool" or "grownup" .... especially with poor understanding of the subject. This bunch of staffers doing their so-called "overviews" appear to fall into the jaded negativity crowd, you know... the kind of people that you just get tired of being around because they suck the life out of anything.

[darkchibi07]

You guys want to join the ANN forums and have them hear what you have to say?

[houkoholic]

People going into Kanon expect a Haruhi experience should be dragged out and be stoned to death with taiyaki.

Real reviewers don't go into reviewing a drama show expecting action. It's that simple.

[Blue Reverie]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

People going into Kanon expect a Haruhi experience should be dragged out and be stoned to death with taiyaki.

Real reviewers don't go into reviewing a drama show expecting action. It's that simple.

How do you stone someone to death with Taiyaki?

Unless you freeze them first or something...

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

People going into Kanon expect a Haruhi experience should be dragged out and be stoned to death with taiyaki.

Speaking of which, any Key fan will no doubt understand that Haruhi will have a field day in Maeda-verse. But not the other way round.

So all in all, Key fanboys > Haruhi fanboys.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by darkchibi07

You guys want to join the ANN forums and have them hear what you have to say?

Why bother??? It would only pump their self-importance because they're commiting the verbal equivalent of "griefing". Giving them lots of hits and participating in their forum only justifies their game.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

So all in all, Key fanboys > Haruhi fanboys.

Thats what i like to hear.

And anyone with at least half a brain knows never EVER to read reviews on ANN.

[New/Old]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

If we stick purely with Kanon, then the interweave approach makes even more sense than not, like I said before, it is named "Kanon" for a reason - and that is because of the interweaving stories between the heroines and Yuuichi.

Spoiler:

Massive spoiler for Kanon, don't say I didn't warn you....

Spoiler:

The story of Kanon is based on the fact that Yuuich already having interaction with most of the girls going as far back as 7 years ago and how one event caused a chain reaction to other events. Yuuichi met Makoto when she was still a fox 7 years ago but had to abandon her, him not returning and having memory lose is due to Ayu's accident, which in turn lead Yuuichi breaking a promise with Mai and made her closed her heart, and also caused much grief for Nayuki because she was the one silently supporting Yuuichi all the way along. Basically to flush out the story of the other characters in Kanon and do them justice (which Kyoani is trying to do), the best way, but also the most difficult, is to make people realise the Ayu incident and then tie it all into how it affect Yuuichi and in turn how that affected the other heroine in a concurrent timeline.

Let's take Mai's story, one which the 2002 version really failed to address dispite setting aside a couple of dedicated episode to. 2002 Kanon's modular approach failed to even mention anything about Mai's background because Mai's arc preceeded Ayu's arc, viewers receive no background of what lead to Yuuichi breaking promise with Mai, and it's arguable that Mai's popular was more because of the "cool mysterious girl with sword" archtype outlook than her story in the 2002 version. Compare this to 2006 Kanon, Kyoani already dropped the detail about how the school used to be a barly field, which was where Yuuichi and Mai used to play, these sorts of hints dropped in concurrent of multiple story progression if elabroted upon correctly is exactly what is needed to deliver the true charm of Kanon. I don't think I even need to elaborate on Nayuki since most people are already familiar with how her story progresses.

Heh heh. You pretty much laid it out there. New viewers, beware of this spoiler.

ANN... Seems I get to add another place to my ignore list.

[npal]

Well, their database is ok though, I use it most of the time for anime and cast information and stuff.

[martino]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Thats what i like to hear.

And anyone with at least half a brain knows never EVER to read reviews on ANN.

Hehe...they did flame all the new shows, and yes their reviews are bad...but they're not that bad as an anime database(heck yeah, they even have School Days listed!).

[darkchibi07]

Wow, I didn't expect this amount of hatred towards ANN before. It like you guys have personal vendettas against them.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by martino

but they're not that bad as an anime database

I never once said that there database was bad, just there reviews.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by martino

...but they're not that bad as an anime database(heck yeah, they even have School Days listed!).

Considering that it isn't even an anime (they're scenes from the game strung together), and the amount of confusion that listing resulted in, I'm not sure that'd be a very good example to point to.

But anyway, I won't call the ANN review in any way surprising; they're pretty in-tune with the more typical, casual anime-watching demographic. They're not seeking to broaden their palate, but only to be "entertained". Go visit North American/European forums outside the anime/manga bubble for a taste. It gives you a pretty good sense of why certain genres are and aren't licensed very often.

[Vexx]

You're mistaking my assessment for hatred, darkchibi07 I don't hate them... I just ignore them because their assessments so often miss the mark that I don't take them seriously. Relentless hits it pretty close --- if I used them for my viewing criteria on regular television, I suspect I'd be watching the "reality-flavor-of-the-week" show or "24" or "Star-whatever" or the latest reformat of CSI/Law&Order. For various reasons, most of those fail to interest me at all.
Now, the basic functionality of ANN is *very* useful --- particularly the seiyuu and other anime information database segments. I'll often go there for *that* ... its very good, which makes the antagonism they have towards anime kind of bipolar.

[DanielSong39]

The ANN review did seem to be a bit harsh but they made a number of relevant points. Things like:

- Middling pacing.
- Sickly-sweet tone, oversentimentality.
- Dependant on "it gets better later on" factor.
- Similarities between Yuuichi and Kyon, and Mikuru and the girls.
- High level of polish.
- Consistent character designs.
- Excellent background.
- Forgettable background music.
- Confident voice acting.
- Two-dimensional personalities.
- Banal content/source material.

You many not agree with all these points, but they did address the material instead of going off into a mindless rant. Personally I think KyoAni is trying too hard to be "faithful" to the source material. They might be better served hitting Kanon's strengths and milking it for all its worth - and if that means going with the AIR ending, so be it.

[npal]

/me approves an AIR type ending.

Actually, the "sickly-sweet" is only so for those than can't bear it. It already makes the reviewer's bias apparent, as well as comments such as the "banal content" and the "two-dimensional personalities" (that one is far off target anyway). You can't judge character personalities by 1-2 episodes alone. Duh. The Kyon-Yuuichi similarity is fairly obvious, but as far as Kanon girls-Mikuru are concerned, he probably means in terms of appearance, as Mikuru collection of moe traits are scattered to all the cast. And many shows are "dependant on 'it gets better later on' factor", sheesh. If you knew the show beforehand, why watch it? The previews are terribly biased.

[Skane]

I will compare the points to my own opinion.

- Middling pacing.
Frankly speaking, either I am getting too old( unlikely), or I have very unusual taste, because I have no problems with the pacing. If people find Kanon 'slow', then those same people are likely to find ARIA, Bartender, Asatte no Houkou, Figure 17, etc... 'slow' as well.

Not every damn anime( or show for that matter) has to have non-stop action/comedy.

- Sickly-sweet tone, oversentimentality.
It's all fun and games until the crying starts.

- Dependant on "it gets better later on" factor.
Can't really argue against this one, since Kanon is about the emotional payoff at the end. Somewhat like watching the first two episodes of KGNE.

- Similarities between Yuuichi and Kyon, and Mikuru and the girls.
Comparisons between Yuuichi and Kyon only started because of the VA. Mikuru and the girls? HELL NO. Their personalities and characteristics are miles apart.

- High level of polish.
- Consistent character designs.
- Excellent background.
No comment.

- Forgettable background music.
I'm tone-deaf, so I can't really comment on this one.

- Confident voice acting.
No comment.

- Two-dimensional personalities.
In what way? Hmm Anime X is really vague and really vague. How is it vague? It's just vague. *wave hands in the air*

- Banal content/source material.
Total. Utter. Bullshit. Kanon was not a revolutionary game for nothing. It was like watching Optimus Prime die in the Transformer Movie as a kid. It affects you. Deeply. Unless you have a heart of coal( or something).

Cheers.

PS: On a side note, the Bartender review made me really angry at the reviewer. I utterly despise reviews that seem to revel in pouring acid onto the topic, losing all sense of objectivity.

[New/Old]

Cheers, Skane. I agree as well.


The comment that riles me up is Two-Dimensional Personality. Way. Off. The. Mark. Tut tut.

Voice acting is as good as ever. No need to comment further.

Background and art are excellent. Enough said on that.

Music that serves to create the Kanon feel that fans of the game will definitely get. Reminiscence is reminiscence is reminiscence. That is what Kyoani is going for in their mission to stay faithful. It's working.

Source material. Clearly, they haven't even looked at the source material. Tut tut. Skane's comment fits quite nicely here.

Similarities. Oh of course every anime character can be related to another. Oh yes. I see the great point made here.

Getting better later. Can't argue. Unless you love slice of life, you won't enjoy the earlier scenes which are made to get you used to each girl and attach yourself to at least one of them. Think of it as a preparation for the end, eh.


From what I've seen here, ANN misses the mark so many times it's not even funny. Then again. From what I've heard, I'm not surprised. Tut tut...

[Vexx]

None of the reviewers remotely cared for the genre they were reviewing which means they approached it as a loss to begin with. The reviews seemed basically designed to stir up controversy to light up their comment forums and ad hits.

Skane's remarks are mostly equivalent to mine.... I'm attention-deficit-diagnosed and I think the pacing is just fine.... some people should try watching the nine season romantic comedy "As Time Goes By..." from BBC..... which, by the way, is a great piece of work. "pacing" <sheesh>

A lot of the rest is just amusing ---

Calling the source material banal ... just tells me the source material hasn't been looked at .... or see <where are the explosions?> comment above. Not to over-rate Kanon, but next I'll be hearing Jane Austen, Steinbeck, or Mark Twain is banal ....

... 2-d personalities ... I guess I'd need to see what the reviewer thinks is a 3-d personality in anime to decide whether they were full of natto or not.

Whether its over-sentimental or not kind of depends on the viewer and what experience they're comparing it with ... so yeah, compared to "24" or Naruto I suppose the show is sweet.

[DragoonKain3]

I find that Neo-Kyon and Neo-Mikuru comments quite hilarious. While I am one of those people who wants Kisaichi back no matter how well Sugita does Kyon, even I find the above comments ridiculous in that Kanon predates SuzuHaru by quite a number of years, so it should be the other way around.

There are two things thing I agree with him though, and one of those things is that those expecting another SuzuHaru will be disappointed. But those expecting this to be another SuzuHaru is quite stupid; was people expecting TSR: the second Raid to be another AIR, or were there people expecting SuzuHaru itself to be another TSR?

The other would be the 'it gets better later on' factor. It wasn't until the 8th or 9th episode of the original that REALLY hooked me in to the show, and with this being twice the length of the original, it might fall in that pit trap. If it does, it won't be THAT interesting till like maybe episode 18 or 19 and thus turning off some number of viewers, but hopefully with KyoAni doing Kanon in a completely different direction than their predecessors would prove that this isn't the case.

One thing that I found quite disturbing was that he has the nerve to call the original Kanon a 'so-so show' when he has admitted in the beginning that he never ever saw it! How the heck can you pass judgement on a show that you haven't experienced yet? That in itself just destroyed any respect left I have left of him.