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View Poll Results: Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon - Episode 6 Rating
Perfect 10 17 36.96%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 12 26.09%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 17.39%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 10.87%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 8.70%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-11-10, 14:42   Link #61
Xellos-_^
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btw what is wrong with the rest of the world besides the Far East?

Radioactivity? Poisonous fog? Godzilla on the loose?
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Old 2011-11-10, 16:43   Link #62
Morisato
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Why isn't the Far East allowed Deadly Sin Weapons? Weren't they the ones that gave them out in the first place?

Does Sakai own the Musashi-ship captain automatons? Actually, is he like the real captain?
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Old 2011-11-10, 19:30   Link #63
Einst
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
btw what is wrong with the rest of the world besides the Far East?

Radioactivity? Poisonous fog? Godzilla on the loose?
As far i know they got destroyed when the harmonic divine states falls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morisato View Post
Why isn't the Far East allowed Deadly Sin Weapons? Weren't they the ones that gave them out in the first place?

Does Sakai own the Musashi-ship captain automatons? Actually, is he like the real captain?
Because the far east lost in the Harmonic Unification War as explained in Ep 2.

As for sakai he's the headmaster so it would make sense if he has some authority to the musashi, although it feels like musashi has some feelings to him.
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Old 2011-11-10, 21:03   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Einst View Post
As far i know they got destroyed when the harmonic divine states falls.
unless it has fallen off into deep space why can't people live there or even rebuilt it?
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Old 2011-11-10, 21:47   Link #65
Marcus H.
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^ It can only be explained in Owari no Chronicle: the reason why the world is so screwed up.
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Old 2011-11-10, 21:55   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Morisato View Post
Why isn't the Far East allowed Deadly Sin Weapons? Weren't they the ones that gave them out in the first place?

Does Sakai own the Musashi-ship captain automatons? Actually, is he like the real captain?
No Musashi is the real captain but according to rumors (or actual novel spoilers I don't know) ...

Spoiler for Captains:

(〜 ̄▽ ̄)〜

Now that I think about it. The ship captains actually have pretty darn good chara designs <__<.

Last edited by Kunagisa; 2011-11-10 at 22:07.
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Old 2011-11-10, 23:32   Link #67
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So after dragging myself away from BF3, MW3 and Uncharted 3(>_<) I finally watched the ep!

Now coming back to this series after last ep, it still makes me a sad puppy thinking about the demise of my beloved Kazuno~ but this ep opened on a good note as it gave me, my Musashi!(it's like they we're reading my mind and wanted to cheer me up!)
I tell ya, her design is as plain jane maid as it gets yet still totally awesome.

Now I had been wonder if Sakai would fill a role I haven't really seen since FMA and that is epic old geezer, not in the Honda's way, he's obvious epic old geezer but the more subtle kind, like Bradley and Fu. This ep gave a little hope it will happen(altho I've already asked about this in the LN thread)

I think it's a good time to say I totally love the classroom banter, it works under odd and even melodramatic circumstances that is testiment to the studio's work on this.
Like how Shiro jumps at the chance for making big bucks and then everyone calling him the worst, humor that worked for me

Suzu's back story was one that pulls at the heart strings, very touching indeed.
I do believe Suzu is the first girl without a face I could consider "cho kawaii!"

And hows that, asking your teacher to help you empty your gauge lol.
Kinda like moments of watching hentai

And who would have thought that a episode that consisted mostly of classroom shenanigans would be quite so entertaining.

6 eps in and I'm still totally loving this series! Brilliant stuff!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
No Musashi is the real captain but according to rumors (or actual novel spoilers I don't know) ...

Spoiler for Captains:

(〜 ̄▽ ̄)〜
That seems like a far fetched thing but I wouldn't put it past this series if it was true lol.
Would just make Sakai seem even more bad ass than he seemlingly is
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Old 2011-11-11, 01:29   Link #68
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For all that I've been ragging on about Guilty Crown, I'm afraid that Horizon is worse - a lot worse. My main complaint isn't about the story being incomprehensible (which it largely is without referring to outside information) or that there are too many characters (which is sort of true as well). Instead, the problem is that it's extremely poorly told. Much of the substance of the episodes serve to undermine the overall quality of the work rather than to strengthen it.

A case in point is the narrative in episode 6. Episode 5 ended on the series' highest point so far, with the feeling that things have irrevocably changed, and that there's imminent danger. A properly told narrative would be to capitalize on the tension built up and create a sense of urgency, panic and an overall heightened pace. What we get here is the very opposite: nothing really happens in the episode and characters mostly talk about their feelings.

My feeling is that this isn't entirely the fault of the creators. The original story seems to be extremely inappropriate to adapt into a 30-minute episode format. Whatever, the end result isn't very good.
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Old 2011-11-11, 01:35   Link #69
Marcus H.
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which it largely is without referring to outside information
Well, this is the best adaptation we will ever have of a series that involves a plot so chunky that it is a challenge to adapt. I'm just amazed that Sunrise has decided to adapt what is in fact an epic light novel series that spans about 15000 years.

Take note that Steins;Gate also has a terminology section, but it is fortunate enough to have a linear plot compared to Horizon's multi-POV day-by-day account of the events in the novels.
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Old 2011-11-11, 03:23   Link #70
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
For all that I've been ragging on about Guilty Crown, I'm afraid that Horizon is worse - a lot worse. My main complaint isn't about the story being incomprehensible (which it largely is without referring to outside information) or that there are too many characters (which is sort of true as well). Instead, the problem is that it's extremely poorly told. Much of the substance of the episodes serve to undermine the overall quality of the work rather than to strengthen it.

A case in point is the narrative in episode 6. Episode 5 ended on the series' highest point so far, with the feeling that things have irrevocably changed, and that there's imminent danger. A properly told narrative would be to capitalize on the tension built up and create a sense of urgency, panic and an overall heightened pace. What we get here is the very opposite: nothing really happens in the episode and characters mostly talk about their feelings.

My feeling is that this isn't entirely the fault of the creators. The original story seems to be extremely inappropriate to adapt into a 30-minute episode format. Whatever, the end result isn't very good.
Well after it took 5 episodes to tell one day, did you really expect the story to jump past all the planning and lead up and go straight to the evening of the next day into a big fight after seeing Toori and them get handled by grunts? Like someone said before in the topic, this series is actually covering things rarely covered by series like this, how the hell they're going to survive if they actually do rebel. That's a highly important detail that is all too often left out of these type of shows. Just let the series build back up again, I'm sure the final episodes will be just as action-packed as 4 and 5 were.
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Old 2011-11-11, 03:35   Link #71
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
Well after it took 5 episodes to tell one day, did you really expect the story to jump past all the planning and lead up and go straight to the evening of the next day into a big fight after seeing Toori and them get handled by grunts?
My point is that the way the story is being told isn't doing any favors for the show. While interrupting a buildup of tension might work to a degree in a written medium, it's very deflating in 30-minute episodes. If this were an original work, the creators would have been careful to let the audience know the stakes before ramping up the action so that there isn't a huge lull of inactivity after we learn that BIG THINGS are on the line. Over-faithfulness to an original work can harm an adaptation, and that's what's happening here.

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Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
Like someone said before in the topic, this series is actually covering things rarely covered by series like this, how the hell they're going to survive if they actually do rebel. That's a highly important detail that is all too often left out of these type of shows. Just let the series build back up again, I'm sure the final episodes will be just as action-packed as 4 and 5 were.
I'm not worried about the action building up again - this show is proceeding pretty much as I expected.
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Old 2011-11-11, 03:46   Link #72
Marcus H.
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Over-faithfulness to an original work can harm an adaptation, and that's what's happening here.
On the other hand, taking away details haphazardly would disappoint some of the fans of the franchise. In fact, I'm not surprised if there are already users from 2ch that are pointing out the stuff taken out by Sunrise in the adaptation.

That delicate balance is difficult to attain in adaptations, and the only way to judge whether an adaptation is well-adapted is too subjective to apply in every single series.
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Old 2011-11-11, 04:47   Link #73
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
My point is that the way the story is being told isn't doing any favors for the show. While interrupting a buildup of tension might work to a degree in a written medium, it's very deflating in 30-minute episodes. If this were an original work, the creators would have been careful to let the audience know the stakes before ramping up the action so that there isn't a huge lull of inactivity after we learn that BIG THINGS are on the line. Over-faithfulness to an original work can harm an adaptation, and that's what's happening here.


I'm not worried about the action building up again - this show is proceeding pretty much as I expected.
You are making the assumption that plot and character interaction is somehow inferior to combat scenes. There are quite a lot of animes that manages fine without a single combat scene even! I don't think this anime is aimed at people who fall asleep if there isn't any fighting every few minutes.
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Old 2011-11-11, 08:06   Link #74
Einst
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
A case in point is the narrative in episode 6. Episode 5 ended on the series' highest point so far, with the feeling that things have irrevocably changed, and that there's imminent danger. A properly told narrative would be to capitalize on the tension built up and create a sense of urgency, panic and an overall heightened pace. What we get here is the very opposite: nothing really happens in the episode and characters mostly talk about their feelings.
Well do you expect them to charge into enemy ship to save horizon? This is not show where the MC go gung-ho after found out the girl he likes taken away in front of his eyes.

This episode is pretty much explained about the consequences if they attack testament union without thinking and how to solve that. They all want to save horizon but dont have concrete way to do so, hence they hold the discussion because what they want to do will affect the far east.
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Old 2011-11-11, 08:17   Link #75
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The problem with Toori is his dumbass character. Dunno how he became the Chanceler. Shirojiro fits it better.

And there are a lot of different characters in this class , hope they'll develop all of them , yes i want to hear Nenji's story
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Old 2011-11-11, 08:39   Link #76
Einst
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Originally Posted by -Sho- View Post
The problem with Toori is his dumbass character. Dunno how he became the Chanceler. Shirojiro fits it better.

And there are a lot of different characters in this class , hope they'll develop all of them , yes i want to hear Nenji's story
Well he was the Toori "impossible" Aoi after all, just like stated in ep 1 that the testament union want a easy to control chancellor.

Well i rarely seen this kind of MC so its perfectly fine to me, much better than those pathetic at start but godly at the end MC or those bad ass no brainer MC.
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Old 2011-11-11, 10:32   Link #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sho- View Post
The problem with Toori is his dumbass character. Dunno how he became the Chanceler. Shirojiro fits it better.

And there are a lot of different characters in this class , hope they'll develop all of them , yes i want to hear Nenji's story
Re-watch ep1, Toori was appointed by the Testament Union because he is seen as useless.

i would recommend anyone who still not quite sure of the story to re-watch the first 6 eps. It makes a lot sense now then before.
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Old 2011-11-11, 12:27   Link #78
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
For all that I've been ragging on about Guilty Crown, I'm afraid that Horizon is worse - a lot worse. My main complaint isn't about the story being incomprehensible (which it largely is without referring to outside information) or that there are too many characters (which is sort of true as well). Instead, the problem is that it's extremely poorly told. Much of the substance of the episodes serve to undermine the overall quality of the work rather than to strengthen it.

A case in point is the narrative in episode 6. Episode 5 ended on the series' highest point so far, with the feeling that things have irrevocably changed, and that there's imminent danger. A properly told narrative would be to capitalize on the tension built up and create a sense of urgency, panic and an overall heightened pace. What we get here is the very opposite: nothing really happens in the episode and characters mostly talk about their feelings.

My feeling is that this isn't entirely the fault of the creators. The original story seems to be extremely inappropriate to adapt into a 30-minute episode format. Whatever, the end result isn't very good.
Forget about structural issues and enjoy the episode! Its quite moving, on a human level. But if you prefer GC and overpowered teenagers beating mechs with a sword, while being dumb and predictable the rest of the episode, no one can ask you to enjoy a series with REAL plot, colorful characters with actual personality (instead of mere embodiments of "structural" stereotypes) and a political situation a little more complicated than good vs evil.

Last edited by serpiente; 2011-11-11 at 15:22.
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Old 2011-11-11, 16:22   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
On the other hand, taking away details haphazardly would disappoint some of the fans of the franchise. In fact, I'm not surprised if there are already users from 2ch that are pointing out the stuff taken out by Sunrise in the adaptation.
That's always the risk when it comes to making an adaptation. Horizon is one of those works where it seems that deviating farther from the source can only benefit the show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Znail View Post
You are making the assumption that plot and character interaction is somehow inferior to combat scenes. There are quite a lot of animes that manages fine without a single combat scene even! I don't think this anime is aimed at people who fall asleep if there isn't any fighting every few minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Einst View Post
Well do you expect them to charge into enemy ship to save horizon? This is not show where the MC go gung-ho after found out the girl he likes taken away in front of his eyes.

This episode is pretty much explained about the consequences if they attack testament union without thinking and how to solve that. They all want to save horizon but dont have concrete way to do so, hence they hold the discussion because what they want to do will affect the far east.
I think that you're under the misapprehension that the only way to capitalize on built-up tension is to go with more action sequences. However, that isn't true at all.

Look at the end of episode 5. It promised that there was going to be absolute chaos ahead, with war and conflict and so on. A good follow up would have been to show the various nations preparing for war, or some sort of desperation or some validation for what had occurred in that episode. However, the first real scene in the episode 6 proper is an old guy sitting on a patio. This serves to drain any tension that had been achieved for little purpose.

Seriously, would the narrative have been hurt in any way if this episode had been skipped altogether?

Quote:
Originally Posted by serpiente View Post
Forget about structural issues and enjoy the episode! Its quite moving, on a human level. But if you prefer GC and overpowered teenagers beating mechs with a sword, while being dumb and predictable the rest of the episode, no one can ask you to enjoy a series with REAL plot, colorful characters with actual personality (instead of mere embodiments of "structural" stereotypes) and a political situation a little more complicated than good vs evil.
I'm afraid that the only scene I liked in the whole episode was the one with Muneshige and Ginchiyo. I find the plot, the characters and the political situation to be unengaging, unexplored and uninteresting.

Both Guilty Crown and Horizon have their strengths: Guilty Crown is better at the actual storytelling part so that it's easy to see where the characters stand, the lead up of events, and so forth. Horizon is better at tonal separation (for the most part) so that its serious scenes have some dramatic weight and the silly scenes are appropriately absurd. However, neither is a good show because of their other shortcomings.
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Old 2011-11-12, 01:26   Link #80
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Personally, I like Horizon better than GC. At some point, I just got sick of the usual archetypal characters and predictable story line. I am not trying to refute anyone's view but it is interesting to see how subjective this argument is. 4Tran sees "it's easy to see where the characters stand, the lead up of events" as a strength while I perceive is a weakness because it just makes the story plain. Horizon may not be top notch adaptation and it has definite flaws like difficult comprehension, but I still enjoy watching it. Edit: I also agree the with the current story telling, Horizon has little to hold its reader as interesting, but there is also a vast amount of unexplored materials.

More on-topic... I would kill for the next episode. Toori grabbing Suzu's breast makes me very jealousy.
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Last edited by Izayoi; 2011-11-12 at 01:43.
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