Fate/stay night Episode 14 Discussion thread

[Blade_Lord]

Might be, might not be. Although I like Yaoi, I'm sure many of you here would not want to experience a Berserker x Shirou pairing..

As much as yaoi fascinates you(disgusting), I think he means should Berserker be in Saber classes instead of the Berserker classes?Remember Berserker can be Saber, Archer and Berserker.

[iamandragon]

Right--I caught on. So you said Illya summon Hercules as a Saber class servant instead of Berserker class? Well then someone else will get a Berserker then...?

[Blade_Lord]

Yeah but let's not talk about who summon Berserker. The question is, will Heracles be better as a Saber class servant? Will he stand a better chance to win the holy grail war and get the evil grail?

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Yeah but let's not talk about who summon Berserker. The question is, will Heracles be better as a Saber class servant? Will he stand a better chance to win the holy grail war and get the evil grail?

Depends, there're too many unexpected changes that can occur during a war that it's hard to determine. But if we assume all the servants are to fight head on without conspiracy like in a tournment, Hercules summoned as Saber will probably be smiling in the end. (God Hand + Hundred shooting Heads is just like a step-down of Avalon+Excalibur, only both does not require too much mana and doesn't require 'power up' time. But again, we'll still have to assume the master has enough mana)

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Yeah but let's not talk about who summon Berserker. The question is, will Heracles be better as a Saber class servant? Will he stand a better chance to win the holy grail war and get the evil grail?

Heracles in legend is more famous for his bow. So in this context, Archer class is more suitable for him.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Heracles in legend is more famous for his bow. So in this context, Archer class is more suitable for him.

If it wasn't for the Einzebeth family (dunno if I spelt it right) casting the 'berserk' spell on him to force Hercules a berserker class servant, that's probably what's going to happen!

[Blade_Lord]

But why Berserker?

He can be a good Archer or Saber.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

But why Berserker?

He can be a good Archer or Saber.

It's been discussed a few times in the Q&A--but you probably won't know until you play HF route. Illya was hated by her family, being the daughter of the traitor, Emiya senior. They forced Illya to summon a berserker class servant before the HG war. Without the HG, servants are 100% maintained by their master's mana, which makes it really suffering for Illya (to the point just having berserker moving a single finger brings pain to the entire body of Illya)

[Blade_Lord]

But they want to get the evil grail don't they? Surely they know that a knight class servant has the highest potential to win in the Heaven's Feel right?

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

But they want to get the evil grail don't they? Surely they know that a knight class servant has the highest potential to win in the Heaven's Feel right?

Spoiler:

Illya is the grail herself, and they probably have other plans to retrieve her, but I'm not too sure...

[Kai01]

Quick question, given that Tohsaka still had a command spell remaining, why did she not summon Archer to save him from Berserker? Given that he still has

Spoiler for spoils, but I doubt anyone else has yet to know this:

Avalon still inside him

I'm sure he could recover. Even though Archer would not be bound to her anymore (stupid Tohsaka wasted one on "listen to me!"), he would at least have survived.

She must have known that he was close to death, near the end of that episode. Also, I spoiled Archer's identity to myself, I regret it but it doesn't take as long to look at an anime more deeply if you have some parts spoiled. Otherwise, I would have been confused about Archer and likely not enjoy it as much as I did.

[Blade_Lord]

Maybe Archer told her something like,

"Don't interfere Rin. I said I'm going to kick his ass didn't I?"

But yeah...this kind of fight really unfair to Archer. Berserker can regenerate for 11 times and you can't kill him with the same technique again and again.

[Kai01]

He seems pretty set on winning the grail war though...

What was the significance of the sword he picked up to use against Berserker in UBW before it faded to white?

[Blade_Lord]

Nothing at all. Well tell you what, the anime is not cannon. The battle is made up because the game didn't describe about the fight at all. All we know is that Archer killed Berserker 6 times before being killed himself.With six different attacks. He might not use Unlimited Blade Works against Berserker at all.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Kai01

Quick question, given that Tohsaka still had a command spell remaining, why did she not summon Archer to save him from Berserker?

She won't get the timing right, since she can't see when is Archer is in danger of being killed. Also, if she ever summons Archer back, then Berserker will cease being stopped by Archer, whom, with Illya's help, immediately run to the still-recovering Saber and squish them all.

[quote]Given that he still has

Spoiler for spoils, but I doubt anyone else has yet to know this:

Avalon still inside him

I'm sure he could recover. Even though Archer would not be bound to her anymore (stupid Tohsaka wasted one on "listen to me!"), he would at least have survived.

No proof about that. Also, even if that's true, with a connection to Saber it won't function as well--the self-regenerating function of a servant would do even better.

She must have known that he was close to death, near the end of that episode. Also, I spoiled Archer's identity to myself, I regret it but it doesn't take as long to look at an anime more deeply if you have some parts spoiled. Otherwise, I would have been confused about Archer and likely not enjoy it as much as I did.

Tohsaka only knows when Archer is dead, not near death.

[Kai01]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

She won't get the timing right, since she can't see when is Archer is in danger of being killed. Also, if she ever summons Archer back, then Berserker will cease being stopped by Archer, whom, with Illya's help, immediately run to the still-recovering Saber and squish them all.

What's the difference in time between recalling a second before the killshot and after death? A second wouldn't make much difference.

Tohsaka only knows when Archer is dead, not near death.

But she said that he was still trying hard, she clearly has some connection to her servant's state. Anyway, Ilya does not find them until long after they have had the chance to do the replenishment ritual, even is Rin recalls 5 minutes early, I doubt that would have made a difference.

[Blade_Lord]

Actually there's something I notice about Tohsaka and Archer. Even if they're not next to each other they can still talk with each other. Isn't that convenient?

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Kai01

What's the difference in time between recalling a second before the killshot and after death? A second wouldn't make much difference.

But she said that he was still trying hard, she clearly has some connection to her servant's state. Anyway, Ilya does not find them until long after they have had the chance to do the replenishment ritual, even is Rin recalls 5 minutes early, I doubt that would have made a difference.

Rin can only tell weather Archer is alive or dead. And there is no way she can recall a second early--it's either too early or too late.

And what difference can a second make? 3 Excalibur charged shots (see proof here in Spoiler for answer to Ea's charge up time)

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Actually there's something I notice about Tohsaka and Archer. Even if they're not next to each other they can still talk with each other. Isn't that convenient?

They can do it if both sides concentrate on it, very useful, pity it can't be used in battles like the others in Nanoha...

[Kai01]

But the time in this scenario isn't urgently measured in seconds. They had time to do the whole mana replenishment ritual, after which they set up quite an elaborate plan to kill berserker. Here, I doubt even 10 minutes would have done much.

[Blade_Lord]

Actually Archer is killed while they are running from the mansion in the anime...I'm not sure how long Archer hold Berserker out but I guess he hold them long enough for them to run as far away as they can.