2012-08-28, 05:17 | Link #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Connecticut
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Smoking weed with the president- A movement
To put it short, a song about why marijuana should be legalized. Pulls out facts and replies to phrases grabbed from Obama's campaign. I'm not saying this should be debated here but i think this should be seen by everyone. Please give it a full listen before denying or putting the video down, thanks.
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2012-08-28, 20:59 | Link #4 |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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I'm under the impression that most people who want it legalized like to get high sometimes, as in, biased standpoint.
I'm not for legalizing weed. Maybe it'll work out okay. Maybe it won't work out good. Don't wanna take that chance. Once we legalize it, there will probably be no going back. Remember when we tried to outlaw alcohol? And I don't like hearing people say it isn't a gateway drug because I really doubt that. I had two close friends in high school start with weed and then were doing and dealing coke a couple years outta high school and I had a next door neighbor who went from doing some weed to a lot of weed to doing oxycontin, derailing his life and eventually bringing him to rehab (and it could have easily turned out worse). On top of this, I knew many students in my high school and in my town that started with weed first and it led them to try hard drugs and led them to abuse pills. People can go ahead and debate all that and make a case for legalizing weed; okay, fine. I'm just saying, if we legalize it and it doesn't turn out just fine and it turns out bad or very bad, well then, the 'legalize it' crowd would have fucked up and we will have a very hard time reversing things. Plus, if we legalize weed, it'll probably mean even more teens end up smoking weed (illegally; they will probably set the legal age to 21), and teens smoking weed is pretty bad for many reasons, especially because of the study that just came out that revealed that teens who smoked weed often had their IQs drop some digits; compared to teens who didn't smoke weed, who didn't have a decrease in their IQ in their adult years. Article on the study: http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...-decline-in-iq
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2012-08-28, 21:49 | Link #5 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Abyss
Age: 34
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Why legalise it? People have total access to it then especially kids. Also isn't doing weed and driving a car as bad as drink-driving? People do it and have been caught, so why facilitate that behaviour by making it legal.
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2012-08-28, 22:17 | Link #7 | |
Straight Chillin
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Somewhere nice and quiet.
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Don't get me wrong I'm not saying we should legalize it. It is already everywhere and for a lot of high schoolers or "kids", the substance is easier to obtain then alcohol, where I live at least. People just want to be able to light up without worrying about the cops on their asses. To me there isn't really a point to legalize it for recreational purposes. Where I live you can just pay a doctor to write you a prescription for some "injury" you have. Afterwards you can just use it for "medicinal purposes". Boom bam, problem solved. Legalizing it would just create unnecessary tension, in my opinion.
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2012-08-28, 22:53 | Link #8 | |||||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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When the Prohibition was ended, the source of money that had been fueling the gangs disappeared. Does that sound familiar? Take a look at how powerful the drug cartels in Mexico have become. They've gained such influence and power that they routinely challenge the Mexican government, and have completely taken over some towns. Legalize marijuana and it will weaken them and other criminal enterprises that cash in on the underground sales. What it ultimately comes down to is the fact that we can't control people. People are going to smoke marijuana regardless of the legality or penalties. I say we make the best of that situation: legalize it to divert money away from criminal organizations, tax it, and use the taxes for things like drug education and social support programs for addicts. Quote:
Binge drinking is a problem in America (particularly among the college crowd), yet by the numbers, it's not much a problem in Europe. Why? How come Europeans use alcohol responsibly, while Americans don't? One theory has to do with the drinking age and alcohol laws. In most (if not all?) European countries, the drinking age is lower and it's not quite frowned upon for a young adult to enjoy alcoholic beverages. They drink with their families, learning responsible consumption from them... but more importantly, the "taboo" factor is removed. They drank alcohol and can drink it whenever they want - who cares? But in America, young adults go off to college, and it's their first time drinking more than a few sips. Further, they're breaking the law. That's taboo, and it's reckless. Combined with their lack of learned responsible usage, it leads to reckless usage and behavior. How does that relate to drugs? When one smokes marijuana today, they're doing multiple things. They're using a substance, but more importantly, they are breaking the law and doing something risky. Other drugs are also illegal, but now that they're lawbreakers, that doesn't matter. Without any social support network to encourage responsible usage (and combined with a youthful attitude of recklessness), they advance to the harder, more dangerous drugs. If marijuana were legalized, some people would undoubtedly still advance to harder drugs. Yet many would respect the distinction between marijuana - a legal, socially accepted substance - and harder drugs, which would be illegal and dangerous. Quote:
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The problem is that people are already using the substances. Making it illegal hasn't controlled people's behavior, and it seems impossible to eradicate it from society. As I wrote to Urzu 7, there's no perfect solution, but we have to admit that what we're doing isn't working, and we're arguably creating problems in the process (criminal enterprises that benefit from illegal marijuana sales; our growing prison population). Try as we might, we can't control people. Wouldn't it be better to change our approach?
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2012-08-28, 23:09 | Link #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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I don't smoke weed but I see nothing wrong with it. Not like weed itself kills anyone. Keeping it illegal profits shady figures who charge much higher than it's worth and kill people so they can sell it illegally. All for the big green. That and many are being thrown in prison over this.
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2012-08-28, 23:40 | Link #10 |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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Ledgem: You made several good points. It just seems like we are in between a rock and hard place with the decision of whether to legalize weed or not. But yeah, would giving Americans the green light on weed be a good thing? Can Americans, generally speaking, handle it? It is like drinking alcohol with Europeans vs. Americans. It just seems like the Europeans handle it all better than Americans (not talking about individuals, talking about societies on the whole)?
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2012-08-29, 00:59 | Link #11 |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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There are good points but there's something that people dont' seem to realize.
Everybody is different. Just because it works in one doesn't mean it would necessarily work for the other. Generally speaking, many countries became powerful through democracy and such. Many countries tried doing the same thing but ended getting screwed. China for example became powerful by not following democracy. Why? Because the culture and people are different (And no I am not going to get into an argument about that, I was using it as an example) Opium was a drug that the English forced upon the Chinese and this resulted in mass addictions and loss of money and even led to 2 wars. When Opium started to spread to the US and other places the governments there immediately clamped down on it before it got out of control are were successful in dealing with it. Why are the drug cartels super powerful in Mexico but the same has not been seen in other countries around the world? Some areas have even more severe punishments than what the US dishes out. I recall being in Amsterdam where you could easily go and get yourself high with cannabis but after many years the people are fed up with it to the point that they are now closing those shops down (not all for the record). Stuff like the Red Light district simply wasn't working because the criminals adapted and took advantage of those things. IMO being proactive and working with the kids to keep them from going to drugs in the first place would be a lot more effective. That and doing a better job in rehabilitation by getting people that are addicted to drugs off of them. IMO governments would rather deal with the after results instead of focusing on dealing with it before it becomes a problem. Wouldn't solve it completely but it could help minimize it. I don't drink or do drugs because my parents raised me well and my teachers acted as good role models. |
2012-08-29, 02:52 | Link #12 | ||
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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This is a much better argument for the legalization of drugs.
Gentlemen, you owe this to Lucy. XD Word has it that it gets even better with some Lucy of your own, but I've never tried and probably never will. I'm already rather too light, don't wanna fly off like a kite. ___ Anyway, Quote:
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The famous D.A.R.E. is apparently full of lies though. Some kids notice the bullshit, gets miffed, take to the other side. Go too far the other way, become addicts, whoops. In any case, the argument for legalization is, except for the radicals, generally accompanied by argument in favor of an increase in social support apparatus; something like the Portuguese case, which accompanied legalization with just that. You still wouldn't be seeing Philip Morris (or whatever they call themselves now) advertising cannabis on prime time television, nor would it means free distribution. Such legalization generally functions as a "pressure valve outlet" rather than to entirely normalize the behavior, so college kids trying out a few joints for a phase wouldn't have to get busted and have their lives ruined/turned hardened criminals in the mighty hard criminal factory that is the US prison system. |
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2012-08-29, 03:18 | Link #13 |
Banned
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Like most dangerous drugs (with medical purposes), marijuana should be labeled as controlled substance. It can't be bought without a yellow prescription and without a physicians consent.
Every drug/medicine has bad effects when misused. Control is the best way if it will be legalized. Only medical institutions can dispense them. |
2012-08-29, 03:50 | Link #14 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I'm personally of the opinion that it should be legal, but don't you try to kid me that marijuana is a completely harmless drug with no side affects whatsoever. It may not kill you like cigarettes, nor damage you as fast as alcohol, but mentally people just are not the same if they are active users. It definitely is a lifestyle changer.
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2012-08-29, 10:44 | Link #15 | |||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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2012-08-29, 18:51 | Link #17 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Continental and Mediterranean Europe have a more culinary drinking culture but it's hard to point to any reason. The countries with alcohol issues in Europe tend have a more "dour* or *melancholic" cultural outlook but this could simply be coincidence. |
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2012-08-29, 18:54 | Link #18 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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2012-08-29, 19:02 | Link #19 |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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Certainly, it isn't from inherent traits or some such. It is about cultural differences. Thing is, how is America going to take on similar cultural elements? American culture is it's own thing and chock full of problems (we aren't going to get into other ones, just talking about drugs and alcohol). With American culture and American society, I'm pretty confident legalizing weed won't go over nearly as smooth as it did for Amsterdam. Plus, I'm thinking that it can be a lot different when you compare weed legalized in a small place like Amsterdam vs. weed legalized in America with over 300 million citizens. The greater scope and scale of America leads to a much more varied and complex place than Amsterdam, and I figure that would lead to more complications than what Amsterdam ever faced when they legalized weed. One reason why America has so many problems is because of how complex, convoluted, and complicated America has become.
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2012-08-29, 19:18 | Link #20 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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However, I think we need to ask ourselves what the worst-case scenario would be, and if it's realistic. Before I supported the legalization of marijuana, I used to think that everyone in society might start smoking all the time. Productivity would decline, people wouldn't take things seriously, and so on - those were my fears. I don't think those are realistic now, though. A government study from 2010 indicated that there were 17.4 million people actively using marijuana (doesn't account for people with a history of usage who are not actively using, and they can't fudge the numbers to account for people who wouldn't admit to usage). While there's certain to be some total potheads in that group, when is the last time you heard of someone getting into an accident or failing in their job obligations because of marijuana usage? With that many people, there must be some examples; I just haven't heard of any. On the other hand, I've heard about people showing up drunk to work and getting fired, and about drunk driving accidents. So how much of a threat would marijuana pose at its worst, realistically? More people might start to use it casually (although I'm sure that society's general attitude of frowning on its usage would remain)... but is that really such a terrible outcome? Is it worse than what we're doing now? I suppose we don't have to do anything to change the current situation. We can keep spending money and police effort on the war on drugs, and we can keep throwing people in prison - it won't ever eradicate marijuana from society, and it seems like a pretty poor use of resources to me, but we don't have to change it. I just can't imagine a scenario that would arise from legalization that seems like it would put us in a worse situation. Out of curiosity, what sort of worst-case scenarios are you thinking of?
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