Immortality - How could this not be a curse?

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by NeoChan

I doubt Immortality solves overpopulation and STDs. People do sex.

My post already addresses those.

If the type of immortality prevents illness and disease, STDs can't happen.

If its the invincible type of immortality, you can even strap a whole family with children on a rocket and crash them on Mars and they can happily populate it.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Seeing how this is purely a fictional thread, immortals might acquire technology so far out in the future, evolve the human race into non physical forms and be able to manipulate space-time, energy and matter.

Maybe become like the Q from Star Trek, Data Entities in Haruhi etc., super evolved beings that have mastery over the universe.

And that's my whole point. Humans can't "create". And, as you said, they might get that ability after becoming non-human immortals.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Yup. If you look again, that would be very disturbing. Humans will just spread more and more and (deliberately or un-deliberately) ruin anything on their path just like Agent Smith from Matrix said: humans are not mammals, they're virus for their own environment. Ok, I know that's a silly comment from an AI but there's truth in it .

Completely untrue. Birthrate drops in any nation where mortality decreases. There is less incentive to reproduce when one's continued existence is less threatened. Children is an insurance for the future, a defence against mortality. Having children for an immortal is an option, but there is no incentive to reproduce in large numbers. Further, there would not be incentive to reproduce quickly; no reason to have children as soon as you can, if you got time to wait.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

And that's my whole point. Humans can't "create". And, as you said, they might get that ability after becoming non-human immortals.

Yup, Immortals aren't human at all. How will one grow to adulthood without taking in something in the body. Cells can't multiply out with external factors ( food , O2 and H2O).

It's like a balloon won't inflate by itself unless you add more air.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

A regretable Immortal: I would be happier to die with the person I love than see them dying in front of me.

I saw this line of thought a lot in the Holo threads... problem is, half of any couple will almost always see the other die before them (sudden pair deaths excluded). Women in particular outlive their mates - often by decades. So this is kind of null argument.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Yup, Immortals aren't human at all. How will one grow to adulthood without taking in something in the body. Cells can't multiply out with external factors ( food , O2 and H2O).

It's like a balloon won't inflate by itself unless you add more air.

I just want to point out that you have only ten more years to live, according to your current age. This is the life expectancy of a human without human technology. If you live beyond 35, by your own rules you are no longer human.

Originally Posted by Vexx

I saw this line of thought a lot in the Holo threads... problem is, half of any couple will almost always see the other die before them (sudden pair deaths excluded). Women in particular outlive their mates - often by decades. So this is kind of null argument.

Yeah, I never get that. If you don't want to see your loved ones die, the solution isn't to die first; the solution is to make sure they don't die at all.

Immortality is the answer, not the problem.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

And that's my whole point. Humans can't "create". And, as you said, they might get that ability after becoming non-human immortals.

Well I can't put up any argument against that because creating stuff out of thin air, with no help from any tools can't be discussed with logic.

But if you want to talk about realistic 'creating stuff out of thin air', with tools, it may actually happen in the future. Scientists have been researching on various technologies to do such, nanotechnology, programmable matter, claytronics etc.

Manipulating matter in a way so that they can assemble and form things.

Creating stuff out of liquid already exist with 3D printers.

[NeoChan]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I just want to point out that you have only ten more years to live, according to your current age. This is the life expectancy of a human without human technology. If you live beyond 35, by your own rules you are no longer human.

So most cavemens didn't reach the age of 35 because they're dumb?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by NeoChan

So most cavemens didn't reach the age of 35 because they're dumb?

Cavemen die even earlier. I am being generous in using Medieval statistics. On average most cavemen wouldn't live long enough to reproduce, just like most animals.

(10% of an animal population generate 90% of the next generation. This is why animals have so many children; they keep dying without breeding. This is also why viruses reproduce so fast; they are as fragile as snowflakes.)

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by NeoChan

So most cavemens didn't reach the age of 35 because they're dumb?

Ignorance <> being dumb

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by NeoChan

So most cavemens didn't reach the age of 35 because they're dumb?

* no comment

It seemed that our course will lead to like Immortals will be like gods without the powers.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by NeoChan

So most cavemens didn't reach the age of 35 because they're dumb?

If by dumb refers to not knowing medical care and technology, then yes. Also cavemen rarely even reach 30 because they die from hunting and common diseases such as flu.

The agricultural and industrial revolutions also provided technological advancements such as farming tools and mass production of food to feed more people, preventing starvation and lessen death.

In fact even basic hygiene such as using soap increased human life expectancy by a few years.

Humans only tripled their live spans because of technology, either through food, hygiene or medicine.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Completely untrue. Birthrate drops in any nation where mortality decreases. There is less incentive to reproduce when one's continued existence is less threatened. Children is an insurance for the future, a defence against mortality. Having children for an immortal is an option, but there is no incentive to reproduce in large numbers.

Not everybody thinks like that, mind you. Some simple example would be people from my country. Just try ask some folks here: “will you have many children if you’re immortal and your future is ensured?” You’ll likely get “yes” answers a lot more than “no”.

It's not like I totally agree with what Smith's said. As I said before, It's a silly statement from an AI . But there's still truth in it, even if it's very little. Humans do coz great damage to this planet as has been proven.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by NeoChan

So most cavemens didn't reach the age of 35 because they're dumb?

Even now... a single scratch can kill you if you don't have access to modern technology. A child was more likely to die than reach puberty for most of human history. The average lifespan of a human being was 45 years until the late 19th century...

Most people are dumb *now* ... they're just lucky about 10-20% of the population tinkers...

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Vexx

The average lifespan of a human being was 45 years until the late 19th century...

* stares at Sir Vexx

Thank God for the technology! Group hug!!!!

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

It's not like I totally agree with what Smith's said. As I said before, It's a silly statement from an AI . But there's still truth in it, even if it's very little. Humans do coz great damage to this planet as has been proven.

Well, immortality may even lessen damage to the planet.

If people don't need to eat, then there's no need to kill animals or destroy large areas of land for farming. No need to use fuel for cooking as well.

If people are invincible, then there's no need for heating since people can't die from cold, may reduce fuel consumption for heating.

And if people can live anywhere, then they don't exactly need to cut down trees to make houses, can go populate the moon, or mars, even Pluto if some of them like it cold and dark.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Most people are dumb *now*

So you already saw the movie

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

* stares at Sir Vexx

Thank God for the technology! Group hug!!!!

Aye, I should have been on my last mastodon hunt 10 years ago... Of course, its also why the "old codger in charge of the tribe" was usually still in good shape physically. He was the rarity that had dodged all the bullets to get there.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Well, immortality may even lessen damage to the planet.

If people don't need to eat, then there's no need to kill animals or destroy large areas of land for farming. No need to use fuel for cooking as well.

If people are invincible, then there's no need for heating since people can't die from cold, may reduce fuel consumption for heating.

And if people can live anywhere, then they don't exactly need to cut down trees to make houses, can go populate the moon, or mars, even Pluto if some of them like it cold and dark.

True true .

Originally Posted by C.A.

Well I can't put up any argument against that because creating stuff out of thin air, with no help from any tools can't be discussed with logic.

But if you want to talk about realistic 'creating stuff out of thin air', with tools, it may actually happen in the future. Scientists have been researching on various technologies to do such, nanotechnology, programmable matter, claytronics etc.

Yup. The problem is: God is beyond logic or reasoning. Heck, It’s God who create that very “Logic” within our humble mind/brain which can’t even use its full potential.

While “cultural gods” on the other hand, are very easy to imagine. Recent example: Wrath of the Titans movie .

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Aye, I should have been on my last mastodon hunt 10 years ago...
.

Too bad we don't need to hunt animals if we are immortals. But if we insist, we might be charge of cruelty to animals by the government unless...

Catch it then release it and catch again, Mr. Krabb style.