(L) KimiKiss pure rouge

[Vexx]

@Kaoru about outcast: It may have been meant metaphorically... but it is a somewhat unpleasant metaphor. It does get used in reference to men as well (e.g. slapping Otani into a few clues).

However, that's why I usually use the term "trout-slap" or "sturgeon-slap" (for really big issues) to make it clear I'm not advocating some form of actual abuse.

General:
I'm a bit sympathetic to the outrage if the series has been significantly "re-interpreted" away from the source material, but it doesn't sound like that is what has happened. It sounds like they've taken the characters, environment, and story -- and then swung the camera view up and out to portray a more complex story of multiple viewpoints, I'm pretty much on board for that.

From the descriptions given, it sounds like the source material sounds like a "done for the zillionth time" ero-daato game which I've gotten thoroughly burned out on, even if the character designs are quite charming in it. I agree with Darknemo2000 that unless there are sufficient episodes (minimum 24), then character development *does* get thoroughly shorted with a "social mesh bond" depiction of the story.

[Nightengale]

Ah. So that's what the general complaints from those who are familiar with KimiKiss are closer to.

Well, I can attest to that to a degree if it's going to be seen from that perspective, but I pretty much expected something of similar degrees anyway. It's rare for anime to go about routes of dis-engaging episodic episodes with solitary emphasis that doesn't demean any girl's presence.

Leiji Matsumoto-ism pretty much comes close to being dead in the 21st century.

[evil|plushie]

Is there even anyone who's played the games and likes the anime adaptation? Or thinks it's faithful to the games?

[Messerschmitt_Bf-109]

Adaptions are almost always bad from origina. Book-Movies, games-movies, game-anime, etc. Look at Devil May Cry. Since I didn't play the game I don't have any back source to look on and from my point of view it looks like an interesting romance that will follow several people instead of one main lead and several choices. I like this from the never heard of Kimkiss untill I just kinda tripped over watching episode 1.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

Is there even anyone who's played the games and likes the anime adaptation? Or thinks it's faithful to the games?

I've played... a bit. I never finish 50% of all the games I have anyway. Speaking of which, EVE : burst error plus had been collecting dust on my shelf for a long time now...

I do like the adaption, but I don't really make comparisons either. The anime may not exactly be what purist may want to see out of KimiKiss, but it's not a bad show on its own right. In fact, I think it's pretty nice. Then again, I watch anime with as low as possible expectations (( I enjoyed STxW for one despite the crappiness it was )), so maybe it's moot.

Honestly, if I'm to make comparisons? Game > Manga >>> Anime at this point. But that doesn't make the anime itself bad. Just not... the KimiKiss. (( Kinda like how ZnT anime is not ZnT novel, or something like that. ))

[Darknemo2000]

Thats why in english boards Kimikiss anime will not get so bashed or complained about as it is in japanese forums..Mostly because quite a lot of people never heard of the game before. When you are ignorant of what is lost you dont feel sad about it. Old truth really.

Simply when you have played the game you can't help yourself to see how characters have been reduced not to mention that character development is taking skips (or will be since its only a 13 episode rush).

I think JCC Staff should learn that making short series is very risky and it might get rather rushed unsatisfying result in the end. They killed Zero No Tsukaima with second season. And Kimikiss doesnt look good either.

they really should drop that 12-13 episode trend that they are having lately and start making series less rushed and more focused (with more episodes). Though in Kimikss case I don't think that more episodes would help.

And as far as adaptation of original material goes - its usually always worse than original. Exceptions are rare, I mean its not like Haruhi aniime is made everyday (as its best example of adaptation being really good and worthy of original source).

However, dating-sim games are even tougher to touch than other forms of original source because of its own specifics. making an singular plot-line doesnt seem to do much good to it. It either turns into a harem show or into a bunch of dumbed characters with only few selected heroines portrayed more or less good enough.

Thats why new approach here I think is needed. I was really happy when Kimikiss second manga took such step and created multiple plot-lines instead of your usual singular line. I think its much more suited for adaptation of Dating-sim game. Thus I also had great expectations of the anime as well... needless to say I was utterly disappointed which is probably the reason why my comments are so harsh about it.

[ZFX]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

I've played... a bit. I never finish 50% of all the games I have anyway. Speaking of which, EVE : burst error plus had been collecting dust on my shelf for a long time now...

I do like the adaption, but I don't really make comparisons either. The anime may not exactly be what purist may want to see out of KimiKiss, but it's not a bad show on its own right. In fact, I think it's pretty nice. Then again, I watch anime with as low as possible expectations (( I enjoyed STxW for one despite the crappiness it was )), so maybe it's moot.

Honestly, if I'm to make comparisons? Game > Manga >>> Anime at this point. But that doesn't make the anime itself bad. Just not... the KimiKiss. (( Kinda like how ZnT anime is not ZnT novel, or something like that. ))

This is what I think too.

I did not play the original game, but I did read the manga version of it.

I can understand why people think the anime is bad because it does not follow the pattern of the game or the manga, by having the main male character spit into 2 different characters instead of one character getting all the girls.

But just talking about the anime itself, I think is ok after watching 2 episodes.

I know it is very hard to compare a manga and its anime version, since there is many examples that a manga is much better than its anime version.

Example:
My friends only watch GTO anime version, not the manga version, he thinks the anime version is funny.

But I think the anime version is bad since it changes some characters and creates a different ending, not as dramatic as the manga's ending. Also the characters design in the anime is bad.

However this is because I watch manga version first and I am bias against the anime version, not because it is bad.


Of course there is something i don't like about the anime, since in manga it reveals the childhood memories of Koichi and Mao, and the most important, tell us why Mao does not wear her glasses now (in anime it shows she does wear when she is in Junior High)

Through the flashback of their memories, it builds up the relationship between Koichi and Mao.

I hope this part can somewhat added to the coming episode, this can make the whole story better

[Kaoru Chujo]

As I say, I can sympathize with Darknemo2000's disappointment, even if I don't feel it, never having played the game or even read much of the manga. But I really think that one or two eps is too soon to judge how the characters will evolve. If you're going to keep watching, maybe you'll have more fun if you try to be hopeful.

I continue to be glad that I normally haven't read the manga before I see an anime. Honey & Clover was an exception, but it followed the manga very closely.

And thanks to Vexx for saying what he did about trout-slapping. I am certainly not accusing anyone here of being about to slap anyone in real life, but I'm pretty sensitive to such metaphors. Too many people actually do such things in real life, and far more males do them to females than vice-versa -- unlike in anime, lol.

[Shouta]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Well my main reason why I am so mad is that its not really Kimikiss at all... Characters are changed (in game almost all girls have much interesting personalities) not to mention the increased number of jerk-up male characters.

Jerk-up male characters? Huh?

I'm not even sure I understand what you're complaining about. The male characters are fine. They may not be heroic, macho dudes but they aren't jerks nor are they terribly offensive 'cept maybe the silent guy Mao seems to taken a liking to. In fact, the male cast is a lot better than most Galge/Eroge even if they aren't ideal.

To be honest, it sounds like most people are complaining it doesn't follow the original closely enough and wanting it to be just like the game. That's ridiculously biased and makes judgement of the show pretty loaded. Someone with that kind of expectation isn't judging the show fairly.

Frankly speaking, from someone that hasn't played the game but has read a bit about it, it's a damn good adaptation two episodes in. It's a beautiful show done a manner that is highly watchable for a wide range of audiences while staying largely true to the source material. Rather than being pandering trash like pratically all eroge/galge adaptations are, it has a pacing and execution akin to a manga/anime romance story which makes it a lot more appealing to someone that isn't a loon for eroge/galge and that's only an improvement.

[Messerschmitt_Bf-109]

Only thing I can say to comfort you Dark is to just quit watching.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Thats why in english boards Kimikiss anime will not get so bashed or complained about as it is in japanese forums..Mostly because quite a lot of people never heard of the game before. When you are ignorant of what is lost you dont feel sad about it. Old truth really.

Simply when you have played the game you can't help yourself to see how characters have been reduced not to mention that character development is taking skips (or will be since its only a 13 episode rush).

I think JCC Staff should learn that making short series is very risky and it might get rather rushed unsatisfying result in the end. They killed Zero No Tsukaima with second season. And Kimikiss doesnt look good either.

they really should drop that 12-13 episode trend that they are having lately and start making series less rushed and more focused (with more episodes). Though in Kimikss case I don't think that more episodes would help.

And as far as adaptation of original material goes - its usually always worse than original. Exceptions are rare, I mean its not like Haruhi aniime is made everyday (as its best example of adaptation being really good and worthy of original source).

However, dating-sim games are even tougher to touch than other forms of original source because of its own specifics. making an singular plot-line doesnt seem to do much good to it. It either turns into a harem show or into a bunch of dumbed characters with only few selected heroines portrayed more or less good enough.

Thats why new approach here I think is needed. I was really happy when Kimikiss second manga took such step and created multiple plot-lines instead of your usual singular line. I think its much more suited for adaptation of Dating-sim game. Thus I also had great expectations of the anime as well... needless to say I was utterly disappointed which is probably the reason why my comments are so harsh about it.

Honestly, I think that it is pretty stupid to watch a show when you already know the outcome. What's the fun in watching if you know who will end up with who in the end? The problem with TV series' following the eroge plot is that the viewers watch only to see how well the series' followed the original storyline. They don't take the series as it is. Like I said last time, if anyone has a better idea, then let him make his own version of the series.

[outcast_within]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

On another topic, I have to say, outcast_within, that although your summary is excellent, I am disgusted by any talk of guys "slapping" girls "to their senses". I find this apparent acceptance of violence against women to be completely unacceptable. You are not the only or the worst offender, but you are the most recent. Please stop.

ofc lovely complex kind of slapping or if you do not know this anime figuratively.
You know where one needs to be wakened up from a particular thought train

[Thingle]

That indifferent girl... is a turn off. Long live lively Mao.

[Zilveari]

GRRR@end of ep1. Why couldn't something like that happen to me when I was a kid ;/

[Bondius]

Originally Posted by Zilveari

GRRR@end of ep1. Why couldn't something like that happen to me when I was a kid ;/

I think each and every one wanted something like that to happen ... well, I'm still in highschool so I can still hope xD lol
*sigh* I'd wish they'd sub the 2nd episode faster, I wanna see Kimikiss T.T

[Messerschmitt_Bf-109]

My childhood female friend moved to Washington when I was nine. Never seen her since.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by InternalBrain

Honestly, I think that it is pretty stupid to watch a show when you already know the outcome. What's the fun in watching if you know who will end up with who in the end? The problem with TV series' following the eroge plot is that the viewers watch only to see how well the series' followed the original storyline. They don't take the series as it is. Like I said last time, if anyone has a better idea, then let him make his own version of the series.

Not to step on everyone's toes...... but Lord of the Rings had a pretty big attendance considering everyone knew the outcome. As does any Shakespeare play... or most theatre revivals.

The interesting part becomes the adaptation and execution of the storyline, how well the parts are acted, etc. Then people can argue til the fires burn out about the importance of pieces left out or condensed, aspects of camera angle, whose point-of-view, and so on.

One certainly doesn't have to "accept the story as it is" or shut up and make their own. That's like saying you don't like your monopoly cable service behavior and their answer is "shut up and make your own then".
OTOH, I completely sympathize if they just keep sitting there and saying it sucks without explaining why or just not liking it because the story events are the same but just expressed in a different ... then at some point we might be obligated to apply trout for our own sanity. It isn't very solid ground to conclude this is terrible just because it isn't a slide show replication of the software game.

Its just the first episode (or two).... I'd say see how it plays out over 4 or 5 episodes before concluding anything about the adaptation choices.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Shouta

Jerk-up male characters? Huh?

I'm not even sure I understand what you're complaining about. The male characters are fine. They may not be heroic, macho dudes but they aren't jerks nor are they terribly offensive 'cept maybe the silent guy Mao seems to taken a liking to. In fact, the male cast is a lot better than most Galge/Eroge even if they aren't ideal.

To be honest, it sounds like most people are complaining it doesn't follow the original closely enough and wanting it to be just like the game. That's ridiculously biased and makes judgement of the show pretty loaded. Someone with that kind of expectation isn't judging the show fairly.

Frankly speaking, from someone that hasn't played the game but has read a bit about it, it's a damn good adaptation two episodes in. It's a beautiful show done a manner that is highly watchable for a wide range of audiences while staying largely true to the source material. Rather than being pandering trash like pratically all eroge/galge adaptations are, it has a pacing and execution akin to a manga/anime romance story which makes it a lot more appealing to someone that isn't a loon for eroge/galge and that's only an improvement.

I agree...but i think i know where he is coming thinking about how KnJ anime has ended up...

But from a clearly anime point of view i dont think that any of the characters are being "wasted" into nothingness. Sure they may not have showed what they have to offer yet but its only been 2 eps so far - and from what i can see they are all pretty much loveable characters to watch.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah sometimes maybe ignorance is bliss. Enjoy the first episode then check out the boards to hear about how bad they did in taking it to anime. Of course I can relate to seeing how they did with ZnT and KnS so when it's not done right you find it hard not to look at what you don't like about it.

Personally I enjoyed the first episode. It may not be what some would have liked but the characters are pretty likable and I'm looking forward to more from this series. I can only concur on why something like that couldn't have happened in high school. (not necessarily friends moving away, though once I was the friend who did that).

[ZFX]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

I agree...but i think i know where he is coming thinking about how KnJ anime has ended up...

But from a clearly anime point of view i dont think that any of the characters are being "wasted" into nothingness. Sure they may not have showed what they have to offer yet but its only been 2 eps so far - and from what i can see they are all pretty much loveable characters to watch.

Another point is, even if you know what's going next in the anime or know the what the ending will be, it is not means the anime is bad therefore.

There is many romance anime that have the same topic and you can already guess who will pair up with who at the end when you watch the first 2 episodes.

But what make an anime good is the process of how it reaches the ending, which can creates an impression in the auidence's mind.