True Tears - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by golthin

I was thinking, but the way that Nobuse Confessed to Aiko seems to be an all time first!
Maybe someone can correct me, but I never seen a confession with a "THIRD WHEEL" right there helping. I have seen many hook ups and people spying while confessions are being made, or people being witnesses to confessions, but never a double teaming like what Nobuse and Shin did. Now I understand why Aiko said "you didn't have too..."

I mentioned that too when i saw the scene i was WTF why the hell is Shin there. Then Nobuse confesses and Shin does the talking again WTF. It was then i understood how it was almost impossible for Aiko to say no, how they double teamed her was not fair. That is not how a confession should be carried out. I like Shin but i want to punch him just once and while im at i want to punch Nobuse too. Did you see how he tried to give Shin relationship advice while they were at school? Then says you will understand when you get a girlfriend lol (look what happen afterwards)

[Supah Em]

Originally Posted by Darklightz

Yui's asking Hiromi out sounded like a business transaction. .

the last time i watched his name was jun, i think

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

You've turned and accepted Hiromi now. So does that mean your opinion about her has completely changed in her favor?

Not yet, not yet...but she is getting then - thankgod

Originally Posted by Darklightz

Wow what a train wreck is serie is becoming!

First of all I think Ai-chan is very cruel to Nobuse. It's bad enough that she won't even admit to him she doesn't like him she had to rub in his face how she picked the sweater that Shin touched.

Yui's asking Hiromi out sounded like a business transaction. He's truly doing this only to make Shin go out with Noe to make her happy. I suppose that makes him a good big brother but also an awful person.

Someone really needs to define a trainwreck to me...I thought trainwrecks are usually bad things that makes series bad, which is something I fail to see in TT atm

For Ai, she is just hinting VERY STRONGLY to nobu that her heart is not where he is. That guy should stop being in denial and see that she doesn't LIKE him (I have little patience for persistant guys ^^). If anything he brough it onto himself for that. Too thicked skinned imo.

He will do whatever it takes to make his sister happy...though it may seem awful, it is not like he is being forced (which was totally the opposite of shin's intentions ROFL haha! ).

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

For Ai, she is just hinting VERY STRONGLY to nobu that her heart is not where he is. That guy should stop being in denial and see that she doesn't LIKE him (I have little patience for persistant guys ^^). If anything he brough it onto himself for that. Too thicked skinned imo.

Yeah, that is a good point! This is one of those cases that trying so hard backfired on him. If he had not mentioned the thing about choosing a sweater, he might have been home free! I think that Aiko was unconciously hoping to be caught, I bet anything she is relieved that she was caught and was able to lift that wait from her concience. She really give Nobuse a try, but man I have been saying that when she is alone with Nobuse she is miserable. You can't force your heart to change that easily.

[DragoonKain3]

As for Aiko, I am of the camp that she is mean. I mean, she has almost confessed that the reason why she is with Nobuse is so that she could stay close with Shin. I mean, you go out with a guy because you like him earnestly, not because of some ulterior motive. I mean, that maybe one of the reasons why Shin's mom hates Hiromi, because she's the extension of Hiromi's mom, who might have been the first pick of Hiromi's dad. This is speculation, but if Aiko goes down that route and in the future marries Nobuse because she could stay closer to Shin, it's a big possibility that she'd hate Shin's kid as well.


@Golthin

Spoiler for for childhood friends off-topicness:

Originally Posted by golthin

You are childhood friends if you live close to each other during your "CHILDHOOD".

Incorrect. That describes the 'girl next door' archetype, which while it often falls under the childhood friend category, it IS a separate archetype altogether. This is because there are plenty of what the anime considers in the show as osana-najimi where the two people don't live even remotely close to each other. Shinigami no Ballad, Major, and Boys Be are just some examples, where it is shown that these childhood friends seems to be living on the opposite sides of the city when they were kids (they have to take long walks to get to each other's houses).

Looking deeper, definition of 'childhood friends' means literally just that... that person is your friend since childhood. Nothing more, nothing less, really.

Looking to the roots of the word, Osana-najimi (幼馴染) has a definition here... http://www.websters-online-dictionar...25E6%259F%2593). It says one of its definitions it falls under is childhood friend, which I discussed above. Friend from infancy is not really strictly true, since dozens of characters who only knew each other from elementary school onwards (example, Koko), are still considered osana-najimi. Old playmate is another one, and one which is basically a more vague version of childhood friend.

Of course, there is something that's always lost in translation, as osana-najimi implies a deeper bond (non-romantic mind you) than tomodatchi. In any case, none of the defintions or connotations say anything about living close to each other, nor does it not mention that to qualify you must have been with them all your life, going back to your previous definition. It however, does leave the definition to be broad enough to include a multitude of character couples. And all of the shows that I listed do fall under that very definition.


So under that definition, Love Hina definitely counts (heck, the reason I got the notion of osana-najimi was from way back in 2001 when the authour of megatokyo considered that show has a childhood friend). I really don't think you've seen Love Hina, since it IS Naru (heavily implied in the series, confirmed in the manga) who's the girl of his past. Da Capo's Nemu and Sakura definitely counts, as are DC2's Otome and Yume as well, since they know each of the respective leads when they were very young.


As for some shows, if there's only one person who's left as a possible LI and it's painfully obvious (or heavily implied) that they're going to end up with each other in the future, it's considered as a win or loss for me.

Spoiler for Examples of win:

Boys Be- The reason why I started to count these kind of shows. It had a 'Tadaima, Okaeri; ending... heavily implied that the childhood friends get back together
Last Exile- Who else does the main guy have even a passing interest in but Lavie?
Kono Minikuku Utsukushii Sekai - Only one LI left, and that's the childhood friend
Major- Being constant presence in all the seasons, there is very little doubt that Shimizu would end up with Goro... sooner or later after seeing certain scenes in season 3
Kenichi- Kenichi loves Miyu, and it is reciprocated. It's not a matter of 'if', but a matter of 'when'

Spoiler for Example of loss:

FLCL- Haruko is still alive and kicking, and the show leans more on Naoto not forgetting her than him hooking up with Eri (the O-N).
Escaflowne-While the cat girl (aka. the O-N) is the one left behind with Vaan, the show implies that Vaan and Hitomi will meet each other someday.
Mai-Hime- No 'real' outcome in the end, but it's obvious that YuichiXShiho is NOT going to happen
Suzuka- Another one with no 'real' outcome, yet I still counted it as a loss as its obvious that in the end, it's Suzuka who will win
Yume Tsukai- Another open-ended ending. While it's the osana-najimi who is the only one left who's interested in the guy, the guy obviously will not ever return those feelings as he is a lolicon. effing beeep >_>

So really, I don't think I'm being unfair here. If I think its obvious osana-najimi will win in the future, I mark it. If I tihnk they're going to lose, I mark it as a loss.



As for lack of competition, now there's where I seriously disagree. While not every show has 'serious' competition, glancing quickly at the list, every osana-najimi had some sort of competition. Name any show I listed in which the osana-najimi was there for more than one episode (aka. not one of the 'shorts' like Shinigami no Ballad, which I think its the only one in the list), and I can most probably name a character who has shown at least some opposition.


Which reminds me, a friend told me that I've made a typo in Canvas 2 (should be considered a win, since the 'winner' knew the guy ever since when they were kids), a long time ago when I first made the list in the Sola thread. Can't for the life of me figure out why I haven't changed it... ^^;

[Zanshun]

Someone really needs to define a trainwreck to me...I thought trainwrecks are usually bad things that makes series bad, which is something I fail to see in TT atm

A train wreck usually refers to when something de-rails, goes flying off the track and all thats left is a wreckage. True Tears does not even come close to being in this category. As a reference watch H2O episode 4.

Also all this talk about ED and OP and credit listing clues, the biggest clue of them all is far simpler. Hiromi wins in character design and overall because she is the only girl with long hair. In such a beautifully animated show she is given the extra treatment. The way her hair fell to the side when she apologized to Shin about asking him to talk to Noe, the way it gets animated so vividly and moving whenever she plays basketball, how it flew in the wind while on the beach. Its almost like a secondary character that makes Hiromi just stand out and seem more animated.

[zero7090]

excellent episode
just as my thinking, hiromi vs shin incest love but they still make me feel so sad at the confess scene . Also the music is damn nice, wonder when they release true tears soundtrack album

[Grimkill7]

Aiko mean? Both no and yes.

No- Getting together with Nobuse does not qualify. Shin and Miyokichi were despicable with how they ganged up on Ai. How the hell was she supposed to say no when Shin was looking her right in the face like that? My opinion of Shin was low before, but after episode 6 it cannot get any lower. You just don't do that to a person; especially one you consider a friend.

Yes- Using her relationship with Nobuse as an excuse to be close with Shin, and stringing the guy along despite the lack of interest in him is indeed what I'd consider mean.

So her staying in a relationship for far too long when she doesn't like the guy is mean, but said relationship wouldn't exist in the first place if she wasn't backed into a corner.

Mean or not, I still loves her **hugs Aiko**

[Darklightz]

For the train wreck thing I meant the relationships, not the serie itself, I should have been more precise

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

For Ai, she is just hinting VERY STRONGLY to nobu that her heart is not where he is. That guy should stop being in denial and see that she doesn't LIKE him (I have little patience for persistant guys ^^). If anything he brough it onto himself for that. Too thicked skinned imo.

While I usually agree that guys chasing after girls who don't like them is deplorable, in this case Ai accepted to become his girlfriend and actually goes out with him every now and then. Also Nobuse is in love and from my experience, love tends to drop your IQ by a good 70 points. What is needlessly cruel is that she never liked him to begin with and yet still stays at his side. I think part of Nobuse is staring to realize that but his love for her is strong enough to bear it so far.

Originally Posted by golthin

I think she let him off EASY! She could have told him straight that she is not in love with him and that she likes Shin.

No, telling it to him straight would have let him off easy. Leading him on is just pointless torture.


Despite all this Ai is still my favorite character. There's something about her that's so likeable. Although Noe is catching up on the cuteness scale. The way she held on to Shin's belt is sweet

And yes his name is Jun, I"m watching way too many series at once right now.Getting confused XD

[Zanshun]

Ai-chan doesn't just lead him on and I don't view her in nearly a negative light. She isn't honest with Nobuse with her feelings but as the snack scene shows I'm sure shes not quite certain on all her feelings either. She isn't trying to hurt Nobuse in any way and there is no ill intent on her part at all. Everyone is saying its cruel when all she is trying to do is let him down gently, yes in things like this sometimes its better to rip the bandage off quickly, but they are all new to this. We all saw how she got tag teamed into her present situation, not wanting to hurt Nobuse she hasn't been able to break it off prior to this point.

Every scene that she is in with Nobuse its quite evident how much dis-interest she shows towards him, not out of cruelty but just the fact that she just is not interested. When he tried to grab her hand she just about jumped across the street to get away, she only went on to hold his hand because she saw how sad he looked, and although some will cry that she is being cruel leading him on, she is just trying her best not to hurt anybody. I think from the very first scene that she was introduced and she told Shin he didn't have to leave so early just about everyone realized she was crushing on Shin. Till Nobuse asked her out on a date most of us thought their relationship was all in Nobuse's head, that he walked around calling her his girlfriend and it was so unsubstantiated that she didn't even bother denying it, like it was some running gag.

Man thinking on it Shin is really the cruelest one of all. How much must it hurt when the guy you like sets you up with someone else. It is like broadcasting to the girl that I don't or no longer have an interest in you. Setting up Ai-chan with Nobuse, setting up the date between Jun and Hiromi. Busybodies are indeed idiots.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Ai may not be dealing with the situation in the best way imaginable, but it seems pretty real. And she saw no other way out: do I alienate the guy I love, or go out with a guy who loves me and whom I like well enough, but whom I don't love? Not a nice situation to be in.

I was completely disgusted by the Nobuse confession scene, where Shin was standing there trying to convince Ai to go out with him. Does anything like that actually happen? Yeccch. Do your own confessing, Nobuse.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I was completely disgusted by the Nobuse confession scene, where Shin was standing there trying to convince Ai to go out with him. Does anything like that actually happen? Yeccch. Do your own confessing, Nobuse.

I should hope not i dont know any women whom would tolerated a 3rd party when a person of interest was revealing their feelings. Asking someone to set you up is fine but actually being and having your friend convience the girl she should go out with is cheap, cowardly and despicable. If you want someone to like do it on your merits and principals not someone else's.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Ai may not be dealing with the situation in the best way imaginable, but it seems pretty real. And she saw no other way out: do I alienate the guy I love, or go out with a guy who loves me and whom I like well enough, but whom I don't love? Not a nice situation to be in.

I was completely disgusted by the Nobuse confession scene, where Shin was standing there trying to convince Ai to go out with him. Does anything like that actually happen? Yeccch. Do your own confessing, Nobuse.

Like I said, True tears is ground breaking, that confession scene is a first time for me. Either in Manga, Anime or live action I have never seen a confession like that. I give merit to the writers of the show for coming with a way for Aiko to not be able to reject Nobuse.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Zanshun

Till Nobuse asked her out on a date most of us thought their relationship was all in Nobuse's head, that he walked around calling her his girlfriend and it was so unsubstantiated that she didn't even bother denying it, like it was some running gag.

Haha yes, I remember on another forum when people were saying they were going out I was like wtf he's just kidding isn't he?

[germanturkey]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Haha yes, I remember on another forum when people were saying they were going out I was like wtf he's just kidding isn't he?

this circumstance makes it that much more painful for Nobuse when Ai's all like, eff you, i'm going after your (my) friend now...

ps, glad to see you're still alive. i'll join up on MAL at some point

[Guardian Enzo]

Oh dear - things really are quite a mess, aren't they? Nobody's with the person they want to be with (except Nobuse, and its unrequited). #4 (henceforth known as "Prick") just gets creepier and more stalker-sh. Shin's mom (henceforth known as "Bitch") continues to try and emotionally manipulate her son and emotionally torture Hiromi. And Shin's emotional myopia continues to dig him deeper and deeper into despair, while the girl he loves might just be his sister (though I don't buy it). What a mess.

Signs of BGI-level emotional attachment are starting to creep in. Yelling at the characters on the screen and such. Another painful journey on the horizon...

YANO, HOW COULD YOU? WHAT IN THE WORLD WERE YOU THINKING? DON"T GET ON THE DAMN TRAIN!!!

[golthin]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

@Golthin

Spoiler for for childhood friends off-topicness:

Incorrect. That describes the 'girl next door' archetype, which while it often falls under the childhood friend category, it IS a separate archetype altogether. This is because there are plenty of what the anime considers in the show as osana-najimi where the two people don't live even remotely close to each other. Shinigami no Ballad, Major, and Boys Be are just some examples, where it is shown that these childhood friends seems to be living on the opposite sides of the city when they were kids (they have to take long walks to get to each other's houses).

Looking deeper, definition of 'childhood friends' means literally just that... that person is your friend since childhood. Nothing more, nothing less, really.

Looking to the roots of the word, Osana-najimi (幼馴染) has a definition here... http://www.websters-online-dictionar...25E6%259F%2593). It says one of its definitions it falls under is childhood friend, which I discussed above. Friend from infancy is not really strictly true, since dozens of characters who only knew each other from elementary school onwards (example, Koko), are still considered osana-najimi. Old playmate is another one, and one which is basically a more vague version of childhood friend.

Of course, there is something that's always lost in translation, as osana-najimi implies a deeper bond (non-romantic mind you) than tomodatchi. In any case, none of the defintions or connotations say anything about living close to each other, nor does it not mention that to qualify you must have been with them all your life, going back to your previous definition. It however, does leave the definition to be broad enough to include a multitude of character couples. And all of the shows that I listed do fall under that very definition.


So under that definition, Love Hina definitely counts (heck, the reason I got the notion of osana-najimi was from way back in 2001 when the authour of megatokyo considered that show has a childhood friend). I really don't think you've seen Love Hina, since it IS Naru (heavily implied in the series, confirmed in the manga) who's the girl of his past. Da Capo's Nemu and Sakura definitely counts, as are DC2's Otome and Yume as well, since they know each of the respective leads when they were very young.


As for some shows, if there's only one person who's left as a possible LI and it's painfully obvious (or heavily implied) that they're going to end up with each other in the future, it's considered as a win or loss for me.

Spoiler for Examples of win:

Boys Be- The reason why I started to count these kind of shows. It had a 'Tadaima, Okaeri; ending... heavily implied that the childhood friends get back together
Last Exile- Who else does the main guy have even a passing interest in but Lavie?
Kono Minikuku Utsukushii Sekai - Only one LI left, and that's the childhood friend
Major- Being constant presence in all the seasons, there is very little doubt that Shimizu would end up with Goro... sooner or later after seeing certain scenes in season 3
Kenichi- Kenichi loves Miyu, and it is reciprocated. It's not a matter of 'if', but a matter of 'when'

Spoiler for Example of loss:

FLCL- Haruko is still alive and kicking, and the show leans more on Naoto not forgetting her than him hooking up with Eri (the O-N).
Escaflowne-While the cat girl (aka. the O-N) is the one left behind with Vaan, the show implies that Vaan and Hitomi will meet each other someday.
Mai-Hime- No 'real' outcome in the end, but it's obvious that YuichiXShiho is NOT going to happen
Suzuka- Another one with no 'real' outcome, yet I still counted it as a loss as its obvious that in the end, it's Suzuka who will win
Yume Tsukai- Another open-ended ending. While it's the osana-najimi who is the only one left who's interested in the guy, the guy obviously will not ever return those feelings as he is a lolicon. effing beeep >_>

So really, I don't think I'm being unfair here. If I think its obvious osana-najimi will win in the future, I mark it. If I tihnk they're going to lose, I mark it as a loss.



As for lack of competition, now there's where I seriously disagree. While not every show has 'serious' competition, glancing quickly at the list, every osana-najimi had some sort of competition. Name any show I listed in which the osana-najimi was there for more than one episode (aka. not one of the 'shorts' like Shinigami no Ballad, which I think its the only one in the list), and I can most probably name a character who has shown at least some opposition.


Which reminds me, a friend told me that I've made a typo in Canvas 2 (should be considered a win, since the 'winner' knew the guy ever since when they were kids), a long time ago when I first made the list in the Sola thread. Can't for the life of me figure out why I haven't changed it... ^^;

Spoiler for DragoonKain3 for childhood friends off-topicness:

I think I should explain myself better about my trouble with the childhoodfriend. The problem of childhoodfriend losing is when She or he is involved in a bonafide love triangle. CODE-E is a prime example of the childhoodfriend losing. Lets forget about your defination of childhoodfriend for a moment. Just count the time that a childhoodfriend won DURING a bonafide Love triangle.

Now back to the defination, in my opinion you are kind of stretching the term used most of the time for Childhoodfriend. Of course you are a big proponent of the childhoodfriend winning. Now don't misunderstand me, I LOVE when the childhoodfriend wins. In my heart I really wish I could believe your 70% win rate, but there is a lot of victories in there where the childhoodfriend was automatic a Lock because she didn't have a rival or rivals.

My pain is that the childhoodfriend will lose automaticaly when she has competition. Take the case Tonagura!, Kazuki didn't have any real competition. Her best friend really didn't have any feelings for Yuuji and she knew KAzuki was in love with Yuuji. The HAtsune also didn't have anything for yuji, though he would probably would have loved to have something. IT was actually the teacher that worried yuuji, but once it was revealed he was engaged it was a no contest because there was not a real rival.

it is up to interpretation. Kaede from Shuffle, Levy from Last exile, Koko from Decapo, Ruriko from gatekeeper are prime examples of what a childhoodfriend is. the other fall in a gray area. I will grant Love hina because I never read the manga, so i'll take your word for it that it is confirmed in the manga. Again Nemu from Decapo can't be considered a childhoodfriend because they were raised as siblings. IF we applied your standard, that would make all non blood related siblings childhoodfriends and will automaticly destroy one of the most used Cliche in anime. They are even using that on the next decapo series that is going to be broadcast in april. They left the two Nonblood related sisters for that season.


To summarize, childhoodfriend can win as long as they are not involved in a love triangle and the guy doesn't have any feelings for the other girl. If we remove many of the automatic locks and the "well the show ended and there is no body else" like in last exile, the rate will be much lower.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by golthin

Spoiler for DragoonKain3 for childhood friends off-topicness:

I think I should explain myself better about my trouble with the childhoodfriend. The problem of childhoodfriend losing is when She or he is involved in a bonafide love triangle. CODE-E is a prime example of the childhoodfriend losing. Lets forget about your defination of childhoodfriend for a moment. Just count the time that a childhoodfriend won DURING a bonafide Love triangle.

Now back to the defination, in my opinion you are kind of stretching the term used most of the time for Childhoodfriend. Of course you are a big proponent of the childhoodfriend winning. Now don't misunderstand me, I LOVE when the childhoodfriend wins. In my heart I really wish I could believe your 70% win rate, but there is a lot of victories in there where the childhoodfriend was automatic a Lock because she didn't have a rival or rivals.

My pain is that the childhoodfriend will lose automaticaly when she has competition. Take the case Tonagura!, Kazuki didn't have any real competition. Her best friend really didn't have any feelings for Yuuji and she knew KAzuki was in love with Yuuji. The HAtsune also didn't have anything for yuji, though he would probably would have loved to have something. IT was actually the teacher that worried yuuji, but once it was revealed he was engaged it was a no contest because there was not a real rival.

it is up to interpretation. Kaede from Shuffle, Levy from Last exile, Koko from Decapo, Ruriko from gatekeeper are prime examples of what a childhoodfriend is. the other fall in a gray area. I will grant Love hina because I never read the manga, so i'll take your word for it that it is confirmed in the manga. Again Nemu from Decapo can't be considered a childhoodfriend because they were raised as siblings. IF we applied your standard, that would make all non blood related siblings childhoodfriends and will automaticly destroy one of the most used Cliche in anime. They are even using that on the next decapo series that is going to be broadcast in april. They left the two Nonblood related sisters for that season.


To summarize, childhoodfriend can win as long as they are not involved in a love triangle and the guy doesn't have any feelings for the other girl. If we remove many of the automatic locks and the "well the show ended and there is no body else" like in last exile, the rate will be much lower.

Spoiler for Adding what I know to the off-topicness regarding childhood friends:

I don't completely understand what you two are discussing, but since Love Hina is mentioned. I'd like to add what I know - finished the manga and loved it.

Keitarou made a promise to a girl that they would go to Tokyo U together 15 years ago, and the girl he promised is Naru (revealed in the final chapters of the manga). I think Naru counts as a childhood friend since she used to play with Keitarou before they were separated for 15 years.

Now, Naru has a LOT of competition for Keitarou's affection because practically every girl in the inn is also in love with Keitarou. Though after some hardships, Keitarou still ends up with Naru - the power of the promise is strong.

[Itadakimasu!]

Although I certainly do not approve of Ai-chan's indecisiveness, my experience has led me to believe that many girls, when fronted with such a situation (at least the ones i know... does that make them all weirdos) would probably do the 'deer in the headlights' act and just freeze and 'accept' whats coming. Does that make her mean? stupid, yes, but when we're in love we're all stupid. Mean? I don't think so. But such a judgment doesn't free her of the consequences of her acts... which i suspect will not be all lovey dovey happy ending.

The episode was good. TT has performed solidly so far. Looking forward to the next ep!

[margafred]

Talk about the increasing number of fans that support Hiromi x Shin ending.

Originally Posted by golthin

Like I said, True tears is ground breaking, that confession scene is a first time for me. Either in Manga, Anime or live action I have never seen a confession like that. I give merit to the writers of the show for coming with a way for Aiko to not be able to reject Nobuse.

No...its not a first time actually.That kind of confession did appear in other romance anime,manga and live action...just that it didn't exactly appear just like how True Tears did.Such kind of confession,where a person act as a cupid angel to unite a boy and girl to become a couple is not rare or strange in anime nowadays.Example of it would be Da Capo 2 where Anzu and Akane act as a cupid angel,to unite Yoshiyuki and Koko.Even Love Hina also is a series that uses this kind of way to unite the main guy (Keitaro) with the main girl (Naru).

Of course from male point of view,such way is kind of a chicken way,and ruining male's pride,since to male,love confession is somewhat a part of their pride too..so usually this kind of confession won't appear in anime/series where the main guy is a type that looks strong,brave and prideful (like Isurugi Jun).



I lazy to extend my point about man's pride haha...someone for sure will shoot me for it if i type everything about it in here.