(L) (Legend of) Condor Hero Discussion

[Tofusensei]

Originally Posted by The Yellow Dwarf

I wonder how western audiences are responding to it... (The most vocal people about this anime seems to be people who have already read the novels/watched the Hong Kong TV dramas.)

Well, speaking as an operator from live-evil, I have probably one of the best insights into the western audience for Condor Hero pre-licensing, anyway. All I can say is that the vast majority of the fans were

1) Chinese
2) Probably grew up watching the dramas on television
3) Fans of wuxia in general, and may or may not have read the books
4) Very vocal (I think it's a chinese thing).

Every time we'd release an episode of Condor Hero, we'd see our irc channel/forums fill up for about a week or so with very active, vibrant discussions about the whole Condor Hero series (books, dramas, the 1983 one is a particular fan favorite, maybe because it has rerun on TV so many times)...

There were actually very few western fans who were introduced to the series through the english subs of the anime and/or dramas. The few that did like it appreciated it for its epic story more than anything, I believe. It's rare to see an anime or TV drama with such an epic story as say LOCH or ROCH has, so that was a breath of fresh air. But these people are very small in numbers and not very vocal (compared to the Chinese fans.)

Going along with this, there is a reason the show was licensed by a company that focuses on selling Chinese martial arts movies, and I do believe their target audience for this anime in particular was Chinese-Americans or Chinese people living in America/Canada. It has never really been marketed outside of a Chinese context. (not counting Vietnam and southeast Asia.)

I *think* the anime had a really good chance to broaden the fanbase a lot but the vast majority of people who had no connection with the storyline, or wuxia in general were immediately turned off by the low-budget animation, and only the hardcore fans who already knew the story stayed to watch w/ a few westerners who were not so closed-minded.

If they had really shined up the animation and marketed it better in Japan and/or America, I think the storyline is strong enough (especially in ROCH w/ the love story) that it would have really broken some barriers. It's a shame that they didn't and as a result they settled for once again catering to Chinese people only. Although I believe America is starting to open up more to real Chinese media what with the popularity of CTHD, and Hero and now the House of Flying Daggers. These movies are being produced with a western audience in mind (which might be alienating their base Chinese audiences), but it is moving us one step closer to American acceptance of wuxia in general.

I pray for the day that professional translations of the Condor Hero trilogies get released in American bookstores. ^^;

-Tofu

[Tofusensei]

Posted twice, disregard this. Sorry

[Tofusensei]

If you care at all to see Condor Hero Season 2 (anime), read this, please

-Tofu

[The Yellow Dwarf]

Originally Posted by Tofusensei

Going along with this, there is a reason the show was licensed by a company that focuses on selling Chinese martial arts movies, and I do believe their target audience for this anime in particular was Chinese-Americans or Chinese people living in America/Canada. It has never really been marketed outside of a Chinese context. (not counting Vietnam and southeast Asia.)

I *think* the anime had a really good chance to broaden the fanbase a lot but the vast majority of people who had no connection with the storyline, or wuxia in general were immediately turned off by the low-budget animation, and only the hardcore fans who already knew the story stayed to watch w/ a few westerners who were not so closed-minded.

If they had really shined up the animation and marketed it better in Japan and/or America, I think the storyline is strong enough (especially in ROCH w/ the love story) that it would have really broken some barriers. It's a shame that they didn't and as a result they settled for once again catering to Chinese people only. Although I believe America is starting to open up more to real Chinese media what with the popularity of CTHD, and Hero and now the House of Flying Daggers. These movies are being produced with a western audience in mind (which might be alienating their base Chinese audiences), but it is moving us one step closer to American acceptance of wuxia in general.

I pray for the day that professional translations of the Condor Hero trilogies get released in American bookstores. ^^;

-Tofu

Thank you for the response. I kind of expected the audience to be mainly Chinese. I think there is a reason why you would get immense reponses from Chinese audiences - I think Louis Cha is the most widely-read Chinese author today, popular both in China (PRC, HK, TW, etc.) and in Chinese-speaking circles abroad. It is no surprise that they are vocal about it.

While it is disappointing that there are few western viewers, I don't find it surprising. ROCH is very tightly bound to Chinese history and culture (as are most of Cha's works), the story opens with not one, but two Song dynasty lyrical poem in old Chinese; LOCH begins with a narrative about the history of the Song dynasty and the "barbarian invasion." I would expect the same lukewarm treatment if the Arthurian legends were translated into Chinese or Japanese.

Moreover, there are a few central ideas to ROCH that are very jarring to western liberal sensibilities (though perhaps not so much given the climate post 911). 1. one of the main conflicts is the "forbidden love" between a student and a teacher, which is unintelligible to a western audience; 2. a very strong sense of Nationalism in the theme of "defeating the barbarians" (Cha himself favors the unification of China and Taiwan); 3. the negative portrayal of the Mongolian people, the Tibetan people, etc. which may strike a chord in some politic-savvy as PI; 4. unmistakable male-chauvinist attitude.

Perhaps because animation is still primarily seen as a medium targeted mostly at children (which is not too far from the truth), complex plot points, morally ambiguous situations and mature themes are often dropped and the conflicting groups are color-coded and simplified. (I am still lamenting how the anime butchered Ribakushuu - my favorite among Cha's female characters.) That is perhaps why, the theme of "love" is reduced to the relationship between Youka and his "koko", while the original novel has a much more ambivalent attitude towards it.

Spoiler:

To paraphrase Cha's description of the fruit of the "Love Flower": "Some of the fruits are really sweet, but some are sour, some are spicy and some are bitter; but you cannot know how each one tastes just by looking at the appearance. An ugly fruit may taste exceptionally sweet; a fruit that looks pretty may not be fit for eating." This again echoes the very beginning, where an old man eats lotus seeds without peeling off the skin and finds it "bitter"; but when a little girl peels it properly for him, he thought it was "crisp and sweet, nothing like what he just chewed on." Without concentrating on Youka's love life, Ribakushuu, her student, the student's cousin, the cousin teacher, the teacher's daughter's students' father, that father's "adopted daughter" - all have had tasted the bitter and ugly love and lead sad, depressing lives because of it. Even the ending closes not with a loving celebration or marriage, but a scene of another young girls' heart broken.

In an anime, it is perhaps not possible to show all of these people they way they are shown in the novel; and certainly they will not be shown should the primarily target audience be children and teenagers. It is unfortunate, but somehow inevitable. The production value of the anime is subpar, but a good script might still save low framerates and bad drawings (within reason, of course), but that is impossible when a loose and convoluted plot is forced to be simplified and compressed for time.

Whew...look at me going on and on, I suppose that's the Chinese in me.

BTW, The Deer and the Cauldron has been translated into English by a quite capable translator/intepretor John Minford, who showed no mercy in cutting out chunks and chunks of the original (mostly poetry and descriptions of fighting moves with fancy names like "Ten Mile Dragon Roll") to suit the style of a western audience. This is AFAIK the only readable English translation of a Cha novel, but even so it's got more than a tinge of Twainesque tone. Interestingly, some more faithful translations such as Fox Volant of the Snowy Mountain is horribly unreadable.

[Sokar]

Is there a anime version of the 1st of the Condor Hero trilogy? I like the 1st one, hate the 2nd one, and really don't care much about the 3rd one.

[Azn_Invasion]

Originally Posted by Tofusensei

If you care at all to see Condor Hero Season 2 (anime), read this, please

-Tofu

I went to L E's website and it said that L E had abandoned the Condor hero project and was only doing live stuff??

[Sun_Tze]

Originally Posted by Azn_Invasion

I went to L E's website and it said that L E had abandoned the Condor hero project and was only doing live stuff??

No, no, no, no, no (did i already said no?). We abandoned the Condor Hero anime (Season 1) because it got licensed.

We will now work on season 2, as you can see in the post that Tofu made in our forum.

[emre]

Well count me in as one of the lucky ones who stumbled across this underrated series.. I just finished watching 26 episodes and I want more !!!

This was like a cure after watching 12 kingdoms and not being able to find anything as good for a long time.. such a great story


Anyways.. Someone mentioned about links being posted before, I've searched the forum but coulndnt find any links to translated novels.. perhaps I missed it but still If anyone could post it again It'd be greatly appreciated


Also, I guess theres a 2nd season being aired... How many episodes is it supposed to be?

[emre]

Originally Posted by darockiscookin

Great News! Legend of Condor Hero season 2 is air on TV at HK. They are up to episode 35 now. I be going to HK next week I'll see if i could get a copy of season 2 and then see wat will happen maybe get it sub. I'm a great fans of Condor Hero been watching all those live action since the day I was born.

Hey

Any news ?

[NoSanninWa]

Live-eviL has posted in this thread that they are trying to find a Cantonese translator to help them sub the second season. It is also listed on their forum here!

[Crescent_Snow]

just what the titles says. i've been waiting a loooonnnnggggg time and was wondering if it was ever going to come out... anybody know?

[Forbin]

Probably Not.

It's been over 5 years and it was a chinese production done by Japanese Animators if I remember right.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by Forbin

Probably Not.

It's been over 5 years and it was a chinese production done by Japanese Animators if I remember right.

Despite the very long gap between seasons 1 and 2, season 2 was produced just last year, so it is well too soon to rule out a season 3.

[t1no]

Where can i get the season 2?

[gumbaloom]

Season 2 is licensed dude. Dont ask where to get licensed anime.

-gumbaloom

[kujoe]

I think season 2 was completely done by Chinese animators—Jade Animation if I'm not mistaken. Season 2 was also never shown in Japan.

They just have to do season 3! Did you guys watch the last episode of the 2nd season? That was like, the first episode of a new story arc, and they ended the 2nd season with that?! Jesus, how frustrating that was. I should've heeded the warning beforehand, but I just had to watch it. I just had to. And unfortunately, I did.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by kujoe

I think season 2 was completely done by Chinese animators—Jade Animation if I'm not mistaken. Season 2 was also never shown in Japan.

They just have to do season 3! Did you guys watch the last episode of the 2nd season? That was like, the first episode of a new story arc, and they ended the 2nd season with that?! Jesus, how frustrating that was. I should've heeded the warning beforehand, but I just had to watch it. I just had to. And unfortunately, I did.

And the ending of season 1 was any less of a cliff-hanger? I think not. At least the cliff-hanger at the end of season 1 was resolved. Now I just have to wait for another few years until season 3 is animated. I just hope that the animation doesn't suck as horribly as the season 2 animation.

[kujoe]

Personally, yes. It was less of a cliff-hanger. Of course, we all can't wait to see what happens next, but it was a good season ender in my opinion. The last episode of season 1 --

Spoiler:

-- had a sense of "more or less" finality to it. It had a sense of closure for the 1st season, while being open enough for the 2nd. The finale to Season 2 on the other hand, had this "a new adversary appears" tone to it. As others have mentioned before, the second to the last episode would've been a better episode to end the 2nd season.

[Forbin]

Originally Posted by gumbaloom

Season 2 is licensed dude. Dont ask where to get licensed anime.

-gumbaloom

Season 2 was licensed? I hope they hurry, they just barely put out the last disk to Season 1 in English.

[jzmagic]

i recently finished season 1 and i was very impressed. the love story between guo and goo goo was well pulled off.