[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Because Kanon is 'less real' than Shannon, yeah. This, along with Battler's memories of Shannon, probably indicates that Yasu more physically resembles her than s/he does Kanon.

It's more like Kanon never entered society, Shannon did. For the world and society Kanon doesn't exist, while "Sayo Yasuda" does. But that doesn't mean that Shannon is more real.

In fact Yasu/Lion doesn't exist for the society either, but s/he's actually the real person.

[Kylon99]

Maybe as some of you have theorized that the name was just made up out of the blue, at least on the author-level. I'm pretty sure Ryukishi planned for the Ka -> Yoshi switch to kun-yomi for that kanji.

So if that's the case then why was he named like that, if it was made up? It's probably not an accident that he reveals his name as Yeshua and then goes on to sacrifice himself for Battler... 8)

EDIT: I mean, someone could've just wrote... "Yes, Jessica. My name is Bob."

[Jan-Poo]

there is also the theory that Yo-Shi-Ya must be converted into 4+4+8 which makes 16 the number of Zepar

[UsagiTenpura]

I'm not sure Yoshiya was meant to refer to Yeshua/Jesus (especially considering that would make Maria the mother *shudders*)
Nontheless if such a relation is intended, Yasu actually is another spelling of Jesus.

Also, Ryukishi loves number names way too much.

[40511]

Even the name of Shannon, 紗代(さよ)roughly=34(さよ)=犯人

07151129 too
(071)(51129) === > (8)(18)

i mean there are too many coincidences..

[AuraTwilight]

Well, then you have to ask who came up with "Yoshiya" to begin with. Was it Yasu or Hachijou?

It never came up in any of the original works, and Kanon only decides to mention it due to flash-sideways Lost-style character development, so probably Hachijou.

But that's a ludicrous explanation. You can't use 'it was magic' as a justification for why someone knows things that she shouldn't. Things have to make sense from a 'real-world' perspective too.

This is especially true if Hachijou is the writer of Ep7 as well.

So why is it fine for Battler to just use wizard powers to look into the Sea of Kakera? It goes both ways.

Not that. Lambda wouldn't have gone along with Bern's plan to execute everyone and everything connected to Beatrice if she was still planning to trap her inside a logic error again.

I'm saying that it's possible Lambda PLANNED for Battler's defeat and subsequent revival.

Lambda's shown on a consistent basis that if she loses, she can accept it and move on and just try something else. If Erika/Bern wins, I don't see why she wouldn't squeeze out every last second, having fun as they execute some imaginary people before finding a new distraction.

It doesn't have to be THIS specific game, just so long as Lambda has Bern by her side.

By the way, what does everyone think the portrait for Ep8 will be?

It should just be a black fucking wall, revealing that the blank portrait in EP7's OP was a total spoiler and a total troll at the same time.

Also, Yasu = Jesus would pretty much be one of the best and most appropriate "Gratuitous Japanese Jesus Symbolisms" ever.

[Kylon99]

Well, yes there's all these numbers which people have noticed.

Interestingly enough, Kumasawa's first name is Chiyo. Officially it's 熊沢チヨ , but the first name Chiyo could be... 千代 ... 'Thousand' 'Generations/Age' ... hm. In addition it's another 'yo' name although the 'chi' in Chiyo doesn't map to a sound that 三 could be read as. Even though there are tons of different readings for names using 三 in Japanese, it isn't 'chi.' But if you accept that 'sen' and 'san' are close then...

Kumasawa in the kitchen with the mackerel!


Also... there are two renderings in Japanese for Jesus: 耶蘇 (archaic but still used in Chinese/Cantonese today) or イエス. The first is pronounced 'Yaso' and the second is 'Iesu.' While they aren't an exact match for Yasu, it is close, I'd have to admit.

However, I'd think it was more likely that Ryukishi was drawing on 'Yasu' from the common meme we know today...

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

It never came up in any of the original works, and Kanon only decides to mention it due to flash-sideways Lost-style character development, so probably Hachijou.

Jessica asked him what his real name was in episode 2. That was part of the reason his death was sad since he couldn't answer. Kanon answers the question for Jessica in episode 6 and consequently they get character growth.

Based on that it's probably more of an author thing than a Yasu thing. Until now though there was no reason to suspect Yasu would come up with it.

[Kirroha]

Also... there are two renderings in Japanese for Jesus: 耶蘇 (archaic but still used in Chinese/Cantonese today) or イエス. The first is pronounced 'Yaso' and the second is 'Iesu.' While they aren't an exact match for Yasu, it is close, I'd have to admit.

In chinese, the first one is pronounced as "Yesu".

[AuraTwilight]

Jessica asked him what his real name was in episode 2. That was part of the reason his death was sad since he couldn't answer. Kanon answers the question for Jessica in episode 6 and consequently they get character growth.

Yes...I know...the name Yoshiya never came up, and Kanon refused to give any name in the original canonical works of "Maria Ushiromiya." He might not have one, and I already commented on the sideways character development thing.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Kirroha

In chinese, the first one is pronounced as "Yesu".

So what you're saying is... Jesus did it?

Wait a minute. It all makes sense. Episode 4 is perfectly solvable if Jesus Christ is the culprit.

[Kirroha]

... I never said anything. I was stating the Chinese pronunciation of 耶蘇, being who I am.

... Who am I anyway?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

So why is it fine for Battler to just use wizard powers to look into the Sea of Kakera? It goes both ways.

Well, Battler is a character in a fiction, whereas Hachijou is not. Well, not as far as the story is concerned she isn't.

[Kylon99]

Originally Posted by Kirroha

In chinese, the first one is pronounced as "Yesu".

You mean in Mandarin. I'm not sure if 耶蘇 is used for Mandarin areas, but I know it is used for sure in HK, where the Cantonese pronunciation is 'yeh soh.' There's a ton of other dialects of which I won't be able to talk about. If a dialect does come into play then it's probably Taiwanese, and therefore Hokkien. Like for the Epitaph puzzle.

Most likely Japanese picked up the usage of these kanji for Jesus from Chinese as well. But in Japanese it's pronounced 'ya so.'

Anyways, not sure if there's anything to be gained from this line of thinking, i.e. if Yasu was meant to be similar to Yeshua.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Well, Battler is a character in a fiction, whereas Hachijou is not. Well, not as far as the story is concerned she isn't.

Hmm... wouldn't this just be a matter of Hachijou making up total B.S.? Well, not completely B.S., but for example if she did write EP5 and 6, wouldn't she be responsible for putting Erika there even though we later find out that her chances of survival were nearly non-existant? It seems she isn't hesitant to speculate even on things that aren't true. (I think it's reasonable to think the Rokkenjima Prime Erika probably had some different personality and her name was hijacked for the sake of convenience.)

[Kylon99]

Oops, double post.

Not sure what to make of this, but on the topic of the themes of Christianity in Umineko, I remember there was some discussion on 2ch about this particular island. (I hope I haven't brought this up before.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsuru_Shima
Of note is that it was a penal colony for Christians starting from August 1870. Of note is:
"On Tsuru Shima during three years of forced labour and forced conversions 18 of the internees perished, 17 of them as martyrs, before religious freedom was granted in 1873 and the prohibition on Christianity was finally lifted."

Maybe it's a coincidence, but the number of people dying (18 / 17) does seem like a very huge coincidence.

[AuraTwilight]

Well, Battler is a character in a fiction, whereas Hachijou is not. Well, not as far as the story is concerned she isn't.

Errrrm, can you prove that? Personally, I find Hachijou's existence very doubtful, for a number of reasons. Sure, she's on a higher plane than BATTLER, but that doesn't mean she's real. At the very least, Ange seems to call her out on this with their parting comments.

Also, I'd like to point out that at multiple opportunities, Beatrice compares her magic, grimoire, and worldview to Jesus Christ.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

At the very least, Ange seems to call her out on this with their parting comments.

All I read was Hachijou seeming confused at the name "Featherine" being used.

In other words, it's all down to interpretation. Because I categorically deny any and all magic, Hachijou's mere existence (or that of any other author, but Hachijou is the one we're given) is the easiest way I have of doing so.

[UsagiTenpura]

That question might seem odd, but is there any sort of hints I missed that Beato 1 or Beato 2 uuh. "knew" Gaap? It's just.. when she Beato 3 in arc 4 she says she's "200-300 years younger looking" and then she realizes something.

Easy explanation would imply that Beato 3 isn't Beato 2, but that seems way too obvious after arc 3 to be worth showing in a scene...
I'm starting to wonder if it isn't hinting about a Beato 4.
If that sounds crazy, well there's Eva Beatrice. It's not cause she was the first to have a visual that it didn't happen in other arcs as well.

[Used Can]

What do you mean by Beato 1 and Beato 2? Those names are usually used for Bice and Kuwadorian Beato, and of course, they didn't know about Gaap.

[UsagiTenpura]

What I mean is that basically Gaap in arc 4 seems to realize that the Beatrice in it is not the Beatrice she usually knows, and is one younger then her.