2004-09-08, 10:32 | Link #41 |
The Real Deal
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
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You keep saying oro didnt try in this battle..right... Thats why he had to prepare 3 dead bodies to summon 3 hokages to do his business. Since when was using that much preperation and such a high lvl forbidden technique classed as "not trying".
He laughs so you think hes not trying...oro is always laughing ku ku ku, just look at all his fights. When the 3rd summoned Enma he got worried, when they fought the 3rd was beating him and needed the other hokages help. The 3rd is suppose to be strongest hokage of all time in his prime. Orochimaru himself admits 3rd would have whoop his ass if he wasnt too old. Everything about the 3rd defeat pointed to his old age. Last edited by realdeal; 2004-09-08 at 12:47. |
2004-09-08, 10:42 | Link #43 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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3rd would win, he barely had the chakra usage, he had to watch all his moves and stuff because he didnt have much in his old body, if he was in his prime he wouldve been able to do alot more diff types on jutsus, kawarmi and going into the ground were moves that the 3rd taught orochimaru, orochimaru just knows a few more kinjutsus that he created, but 3rd knows waaay more ninjutsu then Orochimaru, if he was in his prime he wouldve whooped Orochimaru, think about how bad he wouldve done up oro in taijutsu, he was still overpowering him with Genma even in his old old age.
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2004-09-08, 10:49 | Link #44 | |
I had a good idea once...
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 38
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2004-09-08, 12:50 | Link #45 | |
The Real Deal
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
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If I had 2 lions and had to fight 1 guy witha knife on the street, does the fact that I need my 2 lions to fight him means hes so easy Im not even trying? I wouldnt come near him either as my 2 lions can take care of him and me going there would be risking my life. What if Oro actually did attack and he was the one that ended up with the explosive tags? Theres no IF's about what he should have done, he did what he did to try beat him and still struggled. |
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2004-09-08, 14:02 | Link #46 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Sarutobi could've defeated Oro back when he was caught stealing something in that flashback where he called Enma, and that was already way past his prime. In his prime, Sarutobi would hit him so hard his future body candidates would fall dead in his wake. That flashback was less than 12 years ago, saru ages 12 years and gets weaker, oro ages 12 years and gets stronger yet even these 12 years gap only put them at par with each other.
I think even the 4th would've kicked his ass although I have no difinitive proof, just a gut feeling. |
2004-09-08, 14:13 | Link #47 |
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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Good debate there by Kidd and Username. I would just like to point out that huge summons such as Manda would have been impractical in the fight Oro-sama VS. the Geezer because of the restriction of movements enforced by the confinement of the barrier. Probably that is the reason Oro-sama started the battle with a different kind of summon. And if I have watched the same anime as Kidd, I would say Oro-sama was clearly at a disadvantage when it came to close combat regardless of what jutsus (tai/nin) he was using because the professor seemed to have counter for everything Oro-sama was throwing. Oro-sama was definitely enjoying the third's ordeal from a front row seat as the old man struggled against those hokages, but anytime Oro-sama went for a little one-on-one against the geezer, Oro-sama (hard to admit ) was spanked. I am not even sure if the third would have used the jutsu to summon the death-god if not for those seemingly "immortal" hokages. Recall those hokages body parts were regenerating after they took direct blast from the tricky old fool, instead of being dead. Then again those two were already dead and how do you kill something that is already dead?
We really don't know how the outcome of the fight would have been different if the fight was just between Oro-sama and the Geezer. We can only make assumption. Nontheless, its a fact Oro-sama established a clear advantage when the two dead hokages were fighting with him. I don't think a summon such as manda could have done any better than those two deadly summons. The battle was fought the way it was because Oro-sama and the Third new each other very well.
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2004-09-08, 18:23 | Link #49 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Orochimaru -Do you know the satisfaction and happiness gained by hurting the one i used to call teacher? Ep 71
-I prepared this scenario to let you suffer that sort of happiness. So please enjoy. This clearly shows that he summoned them for amusement purposes, not as a serious means of combat. Him staying out of it had nothing to do with being afraid of close combat he was just playing around with sarutobis emotions letting him fight the 1st and 2nd alone. As for the 10 years younger statements,Ep 74. (this happens when hes grabbed oros soul and has already been pierced by the sword). sarutobi -Ive come this far, yet i dont have enough strength left to pull this guys soul out? -are you saying that sacrificing my life isnt enough with this old body? orochimaru -You could have killed me if you were 10 years younger. Obviously theyre only talking about the strength to pull out his soul and not about "killing him easily" in a battle as some try to make it sound like. Also the statement that he is the strongest hokage of all time isnt necessarily true at all. Anbu translated it to -He was said to be the strongest amongst the hokage. bakasan translated it to -People said he was the strongest of all the hokage. Clearly iruka was speaking in past tense. Saying this was being said back in the day, before the 4th became hokage so therefor hes not being compared to him there, only to the 1st and 2nd. Also the word hokage is never actually being said in that sentence if you listen to it and has been left out in other translations ...making people saying hes strongest of all at the time. (Definately not comparing him to all hokages uptil present). Anyway, this was about saru vs oro. Theres no telling whod win an in prime fight when you take all thats been said into context. Probably a very close call. |
2004-09-08, 19:28 | Link #50 | |||||
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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It was cleary stated by even Oro himself. The 3rd even when not in his prime even if he were at least 15 or 10 years younger Oro had no chance. |
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2004-09-08, 20:54 | Link #51 | ||||
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Sarutobi: I've come this far... I've come all the way here... is it possible that my current strength itself isn't enough to pull out his soul? Can it be that this geezer's body isn't enough of a sacrifice? Orochimaru-sama: If this was 10 years ago, you could have killed me now, couldn't you? *small laugh and pulls up sword* It should be obvious that he doesn't mean "in this fight" but that it's context-based, "now" as in "with this freaking jutsu that is holding on to my soul and hurting like nothing else". Quote:
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2004-09-09, 06:43 | Link #52 |
Crescent & Star
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Amsterdam
Age: 37
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OMG why the hell do you oro lovers think Oro waited for like half a century to attack Sarutobi?! Sarutobi was known as the GOD of shinobi, superior to all, knowing all of the jutsu in his village.
Oro himself stated that he would have been pwnd, so no point in discussing |
2004-09-09, 07:12 | Link #53 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Glasgae
Age: 37
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See, the problem with Naruto is that, in theory anything can happen. The number of jutsu any hokage would have would have to be huge. Yet in the fight we don't see anything near 50 from 3 of them... There is just too much they can do, and too many possibilities. However, the Anime did make it clear that SArutobi would have won in his prime, as he certainly would have been fast enough to stop the summoning of the other hokages. |
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2004-09-09, 07:56 | Link #54 | |||
now with 20% more ego!
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(*It would really depend on how much you trust the translators,or your matter of perception/interpretation.Interpretation as in how you would interprete a message.Not how you would interprete a foreign language.*) Regarding Manda eating Enma- Would a fat and tall guy definately lose to a fat and short guy? Last edited by Inuzuka; 2004-09-09 at 08:29. |
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2004-09-09, 08:21 | Link #55 |
Rock beats scissors
Join Date: Jul 2004
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The 3rd in his prime probably could have countered anything Oro tried almost instantly. Basing your arguments on Oro's fight with old man the 3rd is just silly. Just to repeat for people who don't seem to get it: this hypothetical case is about the 3rd IN HIS PRIME!
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2004-09-09, 18:56 | Link #56 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
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The thing is a lot of assumptions are being made about the thirds strength from comments that have been made about him in the show. And as i put those comments into context they dont mean as much as you think they do. But you dont like to take circumstances into account do you?
Username you obviously didnt go back and check for yourself in what contexts those comments were being said. I did in both 2 manga translations and 2 anime translations, I didnt bring up the manga because the title of the thread said anime. The manga translations i read said "He was said to be the strongest of all".. no hokage in there. No ever. Just SAID to be the strongest of all. And he was called the god of shinobi. Thats very different from being the god of shinobi as you like to put it. I have also heard that the correct transation reads that he was the strongest of the kages. I do not know japanese so i cant verify that. Also it has never been stated anywhere that that flashback was 10 years earlier. |
2004-09-09, 18:56 | Link #57 | ||||
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2004-09-09, 22:01 | Link #58 | ||||
now with 20% more ego!
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Secondly,sure you could say that Orochimaru would own the Third,but he didn't. Quote:
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But nonetheless,this thread's theme depends more on how you perceive the given facts.Thus it(*The discussion*) would never truly end because we would have all sorts of different insights from different people.So,unless 'prime' Sarutobi fought it out with 'prime' Orochimaru,we would never know. Right know,we're just compiling all the facts,factors and stats that we can, & comparing them,but on the other hand there's only that far that the stats can take us. |
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2004-09-09, 23:01 | Link #60 |
I had a good idea once...
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 38
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Ok, I just watched the whole fight sequence again (this is an anime thread after all) and you're right, Oro never actually says Sarutobi could beat himif he where younger but the whole scene is about letting you know the reason Sarutobi is losing is his old age. The panting, the lack of chakra, and a lot of other things that are shown to us all say the same thing, Saurtobi is too old. Apart from that Orochimaru still gets his ass handed to him everytime he comes in close against the Third; except one time because he caught Sarutobi completely off guard, and still Sarutobi reverses the situation.
Orochimaru does say that the third was considered a god amongst shinobi, and all the while he points out that all in all it's age that has defeated Sarutobi. So with all that emphasis on old age, the fact that at a younger age Sarutobi could've taken Orochimaru is almost implied, it's as if the anime is telling you, Sarutobi is losing because he's old, Orochimaru is winning because he has remained young. |
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