The End of Animesuki: What Would Happen?

[Ledgem]

Note to the sensationalists: this thread is not about AnimeSuki closing down now or in the near future; it is a question about what might happen many years into the future, and how AnimeSuki would respond to some current trends.

This is a question that is directed at the staff, particularly GHDPro. In light of the fact that there have been a number of events that could potentially put AnimeSuki's existence as a torrent aggregator in jeopardy (the forced shut down of tvlinks; France's political stance toward piracy and filesharing; Japanese companies becoming more aggressive about posting take-down notices), what would the staff do if AnimeSuki began to face pressure over its operations? Would the site be altered, or perhaps would it be halted completely?

The inspiration for this musing comes from having been on this forum for a fair bit of time. I've seen it change and grow, and I've also enjoyed growing along with other users, noting as their ages went up with time (for those who posted ages). It led me to wondering what might become of this site in five, ten, even 20 years' time. This is a question that GHDPro might be best suited to answer: where do you see the site going, and what will it become? I've seen other sites simply fade out with time, and while AnimeSuki could do the same, the staff are more dedicated and structured than at other sites, and the communtiy userbase is too large and dedicated for the site to simply fade.

My apologies if wondering about what the end would be like is a bit of a melancholy topic; I just became very curious, and wanted to know what the staff think of the subject.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Since you stated 1.2.5.10 and 20 years i'll use them all then. Personally 1-5 years, nothing should change unless law governing fansubs are altered. 10 years is quite a very long time, and same with 20. While the rules and regulation of fansubs hasn't really changed much since my join date in May of 2004, nothing can be said about it's future without simply participating in live and see what happens along that line.

Personally I don't keep up with anime news and the rules of governs it since my stance on news are more political. Till that day, I will simply keep doing what I will.

[Vanamonde]

My favorite ending will be in about 50,000,000 A.D., the Last Admin makes the Last Post before board the Final Starship to leave the earth before the ocean's boil and post the url of the new site on Alpha Centuri 7b. She would be promoting her choice of the name, Nu-Honsu, for the new homeworld.

I really can't see any reason for the police to take all of AnimeSuki's servers away. But they do not think like me.

Sad.

[GHDpro]

It's hard to predict the future and I really haven't given it a lot of thought. But I must admit that a similar thought crossed my mind with these recent events.

Now if something were to happen that would make us (me) have to shutdown the site (as a torrent list) forever, I would like to be able to keep the forum and position it as "the site". I'm not sure how many people will stay in such case, but if the AnimeSuki forum stays pretty much the place to discuss fansubs, it might have a chance. Whether it's possible to keep the forum open after the site closes (and on the same URL) depends on how hard we are shutdown; if it's FBI style (yeah right) then I might be forced to give up the domain. Of course since we're not on the MPAA/RIAA hitlist I doubt it'll get that bad if it ever comes to that.

In the scenario we receive a few more MFI-style letters that make it still possible, but somewhat pointless to continue (because way to many series would have to be banned from being listed), I'm not sure what to do. In that case it might be better to close the site ourselves rather than have it continue in such a crippled way most people will migrate to other sites. Again I would like the forum to survive the site in that case.

It's also possible that if similar crackdowns start to occur on international downloaders of fansubs like in the recent days, BitTorrent will be more-or-less abandoned by the fansub community. Fortunately I don't see this happen yet, but if it does come to pass, I suppose it should be possible to adapt AnimeSuki to a site that lists more than just torrent links and also list DDL, NZB, ED2K links etc, or possibly just info (like Envirosphere.com) so that people can grab the fansubs of the group's IRC channel.

Now the timescale on which these events will happen (if ever) is unknown. We might get a nasty letter tomorrow or we might survive another 10 years if the situation towards fansubs doesn't change much.

[WanderingKnight]

I would like the forum to survive the site in that case.

Quoted for Deep Internal Desire.

Fansub listings aren't hard to get, you can find them anywhere on the net if you know where to look. I personally get my own not only from AS but from a couple of other sites (especially for those series associated with a certain producing company...), and even IRC channels, but the community is what makes AS distinct. I've never really thought of www.animesuki.com as the main site.

So please, whatever you do, at least keep a backup of the forums. That's something they can't take away too easily.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

So please, whatever you do, at least keep a backup of the forums. That's something they can't take away too easily.

I promise you we have backups. We've been taking backups obsessively for quite some time now.

Originally Posted by GHDpro

Now if something were to happen that would make us (me) have to shutdown the site (as a torrent list) forever, I would like to be able to keep the forum and position it as "the site". I'm not sure how many people will stay in such case, but if the AnimeSuki forum stays pretty much the place to discuss fansubs, it might have a chance.

I'd like that. As WanderingKnight says, there are plenty of fansub listings. Losing the forums would be like losing a home. Interestingly enough people use the forums without caring about the main site that I think we can survive by making the forums the main site if it becomes the end of torrent listings.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

I'd like that. As WanderingKnight says, there are plenty of fansub listings. Losing the forums would be like losing a home. Interestingly enough people use the forums without caring about the main site that I think we can survive by making the forums the main site if it becomes the end of torrent listings.

I concur with the moderator here. Personally, I come here directly without giving the torrent listing sight any thought. Usually if I wanted to get an anime by a torrent, I'd go looking for it on Google instead of using Animesuki as a source. (Then again, most likely they wouldn't be found here anyway.)

I think we can make do with AnimeSuki being just a forum board and keeping the community intact. Now that I think about it, it would generally be easier since the rules for licensed anime would more or less be likely to be applied to all anime, therefore making modding options convient.

[felix]

@NSW: What main site. ^^

Dumping the forum would be a real waste...

[NoSanninWa]

There you go. Cats has completely lost his memory of the main site, but still comes here.

Considering how few memories Cats retains, if he retains this one, it is a very good sign that we could survive without the torrent listings. I'd be sad to see that go, but it is not our sole existence, nor our most important existence.

[Skyfall]

Indeed, i can only agree with NSW - losing the forum would be like losing my second home (thankfully i don't see that happening). I am among the people who never actually considered the "main site" as the main object of interest - for me it is all about the forum and the community we have accumulated here. (And i suspect that to be the case for the vast majority of users here). I could shrug off the main site not being there, but i would weep like i have never wept before should the forum disappear If it ever (hopefully not) comes to this, i think we can indeed survive as long as the forum stays intact.

[holyman282]

In reguards to new series, I don't usually use torrents to get individual eps. I normally just grab them from IRC bots. It's the same situation with me as the other people, I go on animesuki to discuss anime, manga, games ect on the forum because of the large community built up.

[Deathkillz]

rofls..."what main site" XD
i find that they are both relatively stand alone attraction points and certainly the forums would be able to survive even if the main site is lost...but problems with legal issues is another matter (what say they stop us talking about fansubs...that would be dooom! )

[Daniel E.]

If Animesuki comes to an end (forums included) we could all move and start posting on 4chan!

Seriously though, I really hope the forums will remain in one form of another.

This is my favorite place on the internet afterall.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

i find that they are both relatively stand alone attraction points and certainly the forums would be able to survive even if the main site is lost...but problems with legal issues is another matter (what say they stop us talking about fansubs...that would be dooom! )

You can always talk about anime... The only legal issue might be in the name and domain. Obviously shutting down animesuki would spell the end for forums.animesuki . But then what are you going to do, move/rename the forum. ~

[westbluef]

I guess I'm one of those people that stop by here because of community (heck this is always the first site I go to whenever I am online)

I also think that the forum will survive even without the main site.

[SeijiSensei]

IANAL, yadda, yadda.

If www.animesuki.com resides on a server in the US, as I believe it does, the Grokster decision may apply. The US Supreme Court ruled against Grokster because it encouraged P2P trading of music and gained commercially from that act.

Originally Posted by Supreme Court decision

Respondents [Grokster and Streamcast] are aware that users employ their software primarily to download copyrighted files, although the decentralized networks do not reveal which files are copied, and when.... They receive no revenue from users, but, instead, generate income by selling advertising space, then streaming the advertising to their users. As the number of users increases, advertising opportunities are worth more.

All nine Justices voted in favor of this decision, largely because they all think it's wrong for a company to build its business model on encouraging copyright infringement. I can see a similar argument being made against the advertiser-supported public torrent listings AnimeSuki provides.

In contrast, I don't see how the forums, with or without advertising, could be shut down. Ironically having the forum servers in the US probably enhances their legal standing since First Amendment free-speech rules apply. I suppose one could argue that the forums, too, encourage infringement and profit from advertising. If that day comes, put a PayPal link on the forum home page, and I'll have my credit card handy.

Or. you could just move again (dodges hail of bullets from the admins; GHDpro unpacks his bazooka...).

[innominate]

Well, a forum is defined by its members... If all the members move, the forum moves as well.

Forums fade when discussions die out, but people (discussers) come and go, so if the replacement rate of members >= 1, I don't think that forum would die so easily. o-o

[Shana]

Originally Posted by Cats

You can always talk about anime... The only legal issue might be in the name and domain. Obviously shutting down animesuki would spell the end for forums.animesuki . But then what are you going to do, move/rename the forum. ~

Why? if animesuki.com is shutting down, that doesn't mean that the Forum should be shutting down, too. Maybe if animesuki.com is down, the Forum won't have many new members, but I think that does not matter, since majority of the members only registers and introduces his/herself, and not comes anymore to AS. Resuming, I think that AnimeSuki Forums can be independent, and does not need the Torrents Listing site.

[NightWish]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

If www.animesuki.com resides on a server in the US, as I believe it does, the Grokster decision may apply.

It does. However, I think there are some subtle differences that would need to be tested before a court could rule either way.

First off, AnimeSuki doesn't have such an obvious business model to attack. It isn't run as a business in the same sense. We are quite particular about it not making any sort of profit and can, for instance, demonstrate a net financial loss as a result of continued operation. This is a difference, but I can see how it might be disregarded by a court with a mind to remove us.

Additionally, and maybe more importantly, Grokster are/were providing actual software, without which the infringement could not have taken place or continue to take place. Where as, any infringement of copyright, resulting from fan subtitled anime being available through bit torrent, is not conditional on AnimeSuki's existence. We provide information already available on the Internet and technically nothing more. A more focused test case would be needed before we worry about AnimeSuki's position I think.

I believe a more likely scenario is that the main page's popularity dies slowly by a thousand MFIs...

[GHDpro]

The main site server may be in the US, but I and quite a few of the staff and moderators are not. What might happen is that we might need to move somewhere else.

The forum should be fine indeed. We specifically decided to host it at a different provider from the main site so that in the event of any legal trouble we'd ony have to move one part (either site or forum).

I had plans to move the site over to LeaseWeb a couple of weeks ago btw, but that no longer seems like a good idea. But if things really get hairy, I wouldn't even mind going as far as trying to host the site at PRQ, if you know what I mean.