Toradora! - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Fran~]

Just for my safe...

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Noamara

Does Minori see the picture of Taiga and Kitamura?

In the anime, no, in the novel, yes.

Does Minori understands that the girls say that Taiga loves Kitamura or Ryuuji?

In the anime, it seems Minori didnt understand what the girls were saying, in the novel, yes (because she saw the picture of Taiga and Kitamura, so its obvious)...

The picture underneath is Minori and Ryuuji from Episode 13 running together or of only Ryuuji?

It is in the book and it must showed up in the coming episodes... so i wont risk a ban for spoiling that

[Isekaijin]

Ehh...

Ep 16 was a little bland. Well, maybe it's me because I've had little to no interest in Kitamura's love life. But anyways, I consider this episode to be the prequel of something very big. Something involving the untill now dormant love polygon with Ryuuji as the main guy.

Minorin fell for Takasu god-knows-when and now that she knows that the guy Taiga liked wasn't Ryuuji, but Kitamura, this should go smoothly for Minorin and Ryuuji, since both like each other.

But since it's Toradora! and there are still a few episode left I know this outcome is unlikely.

I can't wait to see next episode. What would be Ami-chan's reaction? And what will happen to the Palmtop Tiger?

(As if it wasn't obvious already, sigh...) Something tells me that I'll be ranting a lot next week, since I was never a supporter of the TaigaxRyuuji.

[Sinestra]

God i Love this freakin show i could honestly didnt care that much about Kitamuras love life i was just curious as to happen between him and Sumire and we got our answer.

This is episode get s 10 WHY you ask because the bad ass brawl between Taiga and Sumire at the end. At first i thought it was going to be a yelling a match maybe some shoving but hell know we now see where Tiaga got the title palmtop tiger from she was like a raging predator and she has one hell of a uppercut. That last shot on Sumire almost broke her jaw. Sumire had some nice moves of her own and landed some nice shots.

In the end result was what Taiga wanted. We now know Sumire did in fact have feelings for Kitamura but held them back. Everything she stated was right Kitamura would sacrifice everything to be with her. IT took everything she had to not ask him to follow her even though she wanted to. Was Sumire cowardly? yes in a way she was but she was also thinking of Kitamura at the same time. Things dont always work out the way we want but if we look hard enough there may be a glimmer of hope somewhere. Kitamura could always chose to follow her after her graduates.

Ami called Minorin out and i knew exactly what she meant when she said it. I however did not like the sad teary look Ami had as she walked away. With Kitamura feeling now being known i sense Taiga will depend on Ryu more possibly causing a rift. I forsee many a problem that is going to effect everyone coming. I cant see Taiga chasing Kitamura as persistently as she has in the past i see a cooling off period allowing other characters and developments to grow.

[Kyanme]

If it weren't for how blandly Kitamura was done in this episode, I might have given this one a perfect ten, but I feel like it was a little empty on his part. As a result, the first ten to thirteen or so minutes of this episode was bland on it's own, but Kanou was a treat on her own. It's a shame she's a secondary character and just Kitamura's love interest, getting to know her better would be nice. Oh, well.

The last ten minutes had me flashing back to Higurashi -- the animation was kinda similar. Or maybe that was just the crazyeyes. (There's no way Toradora's as QUALITY as Higurashi.) Either way, this episode was visually stunning, and musically. Oh, man, that song that played during the Taiga and Kanou fight was perfect. Perfect.

This, however, proves to me that Taiga's feelings towards Kitamura were at least very strong or true. I hope it's the former, since I don't really like him. They're more fun as friends, anyways.

As for the Ami and Minori moment: talk about confusing. I'm more interested in what caused Ami to grab the wallet than anything (Does she know what picture is underneath it?) but hopefully that won't take too long to explain in future episodes.

It's so Taiga to send a letter of apology to Kanou that reads, "Idiot", though.

[MartianMage]

I rarely vote on polls but for this one I'm voting 10/10. This episode was really great and emotiional.

[Semantics]

I loved it. It's the epitome of dramatic storytelling. IMO, this episode is just epic. The characterisation was exceptional, not only in depicting the convulations and complexities of every character, but in manipulating what you feel and think about them. Both the characters and storyline of the episode felt so real; like it could just happen in any random high school (I bet it does actually, all the time). .... I really really wanna give the screenplay writers and the director a massive hug.

It's a mark of a great anime that after 16 episodes, there's a strong sense of attachment to all the characters such that you think about their welfare every step into the plot. I felt sympathy not only for Kitamura but also Taiga. Much more actually. Not surprisingly, I cried during the Taiga monologue (before she beat up Sumire). And one of the best moments of the episode was Amin's "Are your feelings of guilt gone?" and then Minorin's gasp in reply, with the music crescendoing into a rousing melody. Beautiful. So much content in a few seconds and so many possibilities of what they might mean. Much kudoes to Horie Yui and Kitamura Eri for making that scene so memorable too.

Originally Posted by Kyanme

As for the Ami and Minori moment: talk about confusing. I'm more interested in what caused Ami to grab the wallet than anything (Does she know what picture is underneath it?)

I have a feeling it's one of Taiga and Ryuuji... but you'll never know... could be a picture of Ryuuji and Minorin? (not a novel reader, sorry). What really strikes me is whether the very astute Ami knows what the picture underneath shows (by intuition? or because she caught a telling glimspe of it). If so, is she grabbing the wallet purely out of tact/to further protect Taiga's privacy, or is she doing it because she knows Minori is eavesdropping on the conversation. If it's the latter, then perhaps Amin is trying to protect Minorin as well? Or is it all part of her (evil? or good) manipulation plan? ... Or perhaps a combination of everything I said? (OMG I LOVE AMI. The amount of possible reasons behind her actions is phenomenal)

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by k'2

i just watched the episode it's kinda great i think the best toradora episode till now ( i have'nt read the novel )

the part when kitamura confessed was a hell of a shock for the viewer and specially aisaka ( i don't know what she gonna do now seem like the end for her???)

I think it took a lot of courage for Kitamura to say that and I bet few people could do the same in real life. Probably one of the reasons why Taiga got so angry at Sumire, because by not giving Kitamura a clear answer it seems his effort was for nothing.

This is a very emotional episode and I feel sad for Taiga when Kitamura thanked Sumire right in front of her. I think Taiga can handle it though... she has matured emotionally throughout the series, the letter of apology she sent to Sumire can be considered one example of her emotional maturity.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

This is a very emotional episode and I feel sad for Taiga when Kitamura thanked Sumire right in front of her. I think Taiga can handle it though... she has matured emotionally throughout the series, the letter of apology she sent to Sumire can be considered one example of her emotional maturity.

A single word "ばか" as a letter is not what I would call maturity.
But in a different note I think after hearing Sumire's tormented words of her true feelings, I think Taiga was able to come to terms with Sumire.
After all they were in love with the same person and did what they thought was best to save/relieve anguish from Kitamura.

I find it strange about some people's comments concerning the fight.
If it were two male who were fighting in the same situation then it probably would not have invoked such debate but when the opposite sex does it, all hell breaks loose.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

A single word "ばか" as a letter is not what I would call maturity.
But in a different note I think after hearing Sumire's tormented words of her true feelings, I think Taiga was able to come to terms with Sumire.
After all they were in love with the same person and did what they thought was best to save/relieve anguish from Kitamura.

Not really referring to that single word, I'm referring the act itself of thinking to write an apology letter.
Although in the end she could only write one word on it.

[Molenir]

Although in the end she could only write one word on it.

That word was perfect though. Remember what Sumire was saying, how she wished she could be like the others, and be an idiot, expressing her feelings etc. With that in mind, Taiga calling her an idiot was a perfect apology.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Not really referring to that single word, I'm referring the act itself of thinking to write an apology letter.

That was forced by school as part of her penalty for fighting at school. You'll see a peice of a paper instructing her to do so on the bedside table when she was thinking of what to write.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

That was forced by school as part of her penalty for fighting at school. You'll see a peice of a paper instructing her to do so on the bedside table when she was thinking of what to write.

Thank you for clarifying, I didn't know it was forced on her by the school.

Although I'd still stick to my belief that Taiga acted more of a mature person there. She could have written terrible things on that apology letter instead of only writing "idiot", it's an insulting word but fit the situation. It actually make Sumire laugh and from there I assume that most of the hostile feelings between Taiga and Sumire are gone.

[Darknemo2000]

No, it doesn't count as maturity, just because the other person didn't took it offensively the action itself is pretty offensive. Frankly, you would have to to look for Taiga's maturity somewhere else rather than the letter.

[Kylaran]

Everytime I watch this series I'm blown away by the chemistry behind the characters. I've read the light novel and yet the animation has been done so well in re-enacting all the fantastic moments in the story that I haven't had a single moment of disinterest.

It was at the end of this episode that I realized how much I liked the ED. I'm not sure if anyone else has had the ED grow on them, but I remember for the first 4-5 episodes I was neither interested in the OP nor the ED. But as the drama in the story grew, I realized just how masterful the music fit the animation. Not only the original sound track, but there's something about that first line of "Vanilla Salt" that makes me reminisce not only about the feelings of the characters themselves, but about my own past and similar feeling I can share with the characters.

I'm excited to see the next arc. I don't really consider these past few episodes to be a waste like some people have; in fact, I think it was critical to development. As someone mentioned before, this changes the very chemistry between the five main characters.

Ah, I've still got chills.

[Edit]Anyone think they're going to put in a new OP/ED?

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

No, it doesn't count as maturity, just because the other person didn't took it offensively the action itself is pretty offensive. Frankly, you would have to to look for Taiga's maturity somewhere else rather than the letter.

Hmm... that's your opinion.

I think Taiga is just not good with words. If Taiga wasn't mature enough, she could have chosen to provoke another fight but instead she just wrote that one word which didn't cause more trouble rather it helped ease off the hostilities.

The difference on our opinion lies on the interpretation of the word "idiot" on that letter, to you it's offensive.
In my opinion it perfect for the situation, like molenir has already said.

That word was perfect though. Remember what Sumire was saying, how she wished she could be like the others, and be an idiot, expressing her feelings etc. With that in mind, Taiga calling her an idiot was a perfect apology.

[wistfulloner]

That word was perfect though. Remember what Sumire was saying, how she wished she could be like the others, and be an idiot, expressing her feelings etc. With that in mind, Taiga calling her an idiot was a perfect apology.

...and at the same time retaining her image as a true tigress as well.

It should be noted that when Minori overheard Ami, Maya and Nanako talking about Taiga's student handbook, the last thing she heard before Maya said, "She really likes him" was them talking about returning it to Ryuji. Naturally, she assumed they were talking about Taiga really liking him. Ami later asking her if she still felt guilty or not really rubbed it in.

Even if she did regret it, I still wonder if Ami intended for that or just accidentally let it slip.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

It should be noted that when Minori overheard Ami, Maya and Nanako talking about Taiga's student handbook, the last thing she heard before Maya said, "She really likes him" was them talking about returning it to Ryuji. Naturally, she assumed they were talking about Taiga really liking him. Ami later asking her if she still felt guilty or not really rubbed it in.

If you go back to the end of the fight you'll see that Minori ran into the classroom hearing Sumire's quenching words about how much it would be a relief if she could become simple as Tiga in accept Kitamura's words.
I think those words actually seeped in since Minori was in a similar situation thinking about Takasu but also felt guilt towards her best friend, Taiga.
Ami also provoked her which maybe the last push.
The reason why Ami regreted her last words are probably becuase on one hand if Minori gone after her true feelings she will inevitably clash with Taiga freeing Takasu for herself but on the other hand she may have broken up a friendship that she also is becoming a part of.

=Edit=
After writing this post, I'm getting confused this is Toradora and not "Sex and the City", right?

[Sinfully Naomi]

Four words:

Shoe to the face.

[typhonsentra]

Yeah, if only Sumire was at that Bush press conference, eh? The other guy couldn't get it right even with two chances.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Yeah, if only Sumire was at that Bush press conference, eh? The other guy couldn't get it right even with two chances.

Remember that Sumire wants to be an astronaut, she needs some skills and to have good aim

Good for Bush that Sumire didnt want to be the next Christian Amanpour