(L) Ga-rei -Zero-

[JackRydden224]

I'm curious

Spoiler:

Kagura is pretty damn good at close range fighting in GRZ so if GR is ever going to be animated how will the production team overcome this?

[careph]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Such a scene like that would be great, but I think that it'd go against her character established in the manga (it's her partner that carries a katana).

Pretty much yes, as she hasn't moved on at all, at least at that time. Furthermore …

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by JackRydden224

I'm curious Kagura is pretty damn good at close range fighting in GRZ so if GR is ever going to be animated how will the production team overcome this?

… This could be used as a handy explanation as to why she doesn't want to fight cqc. After having raised a sword against a loved one in the past, it's pretty understandable that she wants to keep away from them.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Have you ever felt anger or irritation towards someone who did things like cut you off in traffic? Normally we'd never act on those emotions because of societal norms, fear of punishment, and/or because we're not sadists. However, if you remove all of those barriers, it becomes a lot more possible to do so.

I think I understand your point. But don't you also agree that we mostly do still act on these emotions, just not on an eye-for-an-eye basis? Everyday life would be pretty boring without all the little enmities, subtle fights and nasty acts of revenge. But that's going off-topic...

You're citing external restrictions only, and Yomi didn't really care about any of these even before she succumbed to Kazuhiro's offer. After all, she killed Mei for personal, selfish reasons, acting out her emotions, notwithstanding possible repercussions.
Her internal constraints however, were intact all the time until her death, otherwise she wouldn't have shed any tears over her victims and she wouldn't have felt guilty to the point where she attempted to take responsibility by committing suicide.
I can't see that the stone changed her behaviour concerning inhibitions.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The reason why I'm so adamant on this point is because it speaks to one of the central themes of Ga-rei Zero. Yomi isn't, and cannot be, just a victim in this affair. Instead, the evil that she propagates is strongly derived from her own dark impulses. And thus she had to also be an active participant in breaking free of the death stone's influence.

I'm not sure the theme you are talking about was even intentional, but it's certainly there and could do with a proper explanation. The point we're both so adamant on can also be explained with a simple amplification theory. After all, you can't amplify something that wasn't there from the start. The inhibition nullification theory is certainly an interesting one, but I think it conflicts with the original material (see above).

Originally Posted by 4Tran

To further underscore this point, we already saw what happened when Mei failed at this.

Did she even try? I think her original intentions and goals didn't conflict much with the stone's nature, so there wasn't much need for her to rebel in the first place. She failed at luring Yomi into a trap and acting out her revenge and died as a result. I don't see a reason for her to break free here. Quite the contrary, she was disappointed that the stone ceased serving her via its regeneration abilities.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

That doesn't make any sense given how closely they matched up. By not taking advantage of her opportunities, Yomi would have risked getting defeated, and that would run counter to the self-preservation directive.

Yomi did forgo more than one opportunity to kill Kagura, you yourself affirmed that she didn't go for maiming or killing blows when she could've easily finished Kagura off.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

It shouldn't be a matter of the stone's "intelligence"; everything it does thought-wise should be dependent on the affected person's own consciousness.

Exactly, that's why it was able to prevent her from committing suicide yet it was powerless against her staged suicide scheme.
But then again there is also a scene in the woods in which Yomi complains about losing her consciousness again (i.e. the stone taking over). This would also be canon with the manga material, so all we're talking about here could just be inconsistent nonsense, merely there because the production team wanted to spice things up but didn't think it out.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

What Yomi did to thwart this was to overcome the death stone's influence, and her own dark impulses. That's what raises the story from a tragedy to a minor triumph.

That point of view is heartwarmingly cute, and it put a smile on my face
But in the end, cui bono?
Yomi dies, Noriyuki runs away as always, Kagura becomes the hidden dream of many a twisted psychologist.
She may have won the battle, but the war is inevitably lost. The small triumph only adds another dimension to the tragedy.
That's what could have made Ga-Rei Zero fundamentally different from other series: There's no hope, no salvation, no future to look forward to. It's a struggle to exist and hide whenever possible, as living would be simply too painful. Without the closing apotheosis, it could've been quite realistic, really

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by careph

You're citing external restrictions only, and Yomi didn't really care about any of these even before she succumbed to Kazuhiro's offer. After all, she killed Mei for personal, selfish reasons, acting out her emotions, notwithstanding possible repercussions.

The only external restriction in my list is the fear of punishment. And she didn't care about these factors when considering Kazuhiro's offer because she was too caught up in the moment of self-pity and anger. That doesn't mean that she would never be affected by them under normal circumstances; especially since all normal people do so (hence why most people obey the law). Killing Mei is a good illustration of this because it was such an extraordinary act, and that Yomi had to be pushed to the very edge before going to such extremes.

Originally Posted by careph

Her internal constraints however, were intact all the time until her death, otherwise she wouldn't have shed any tears over her victims and she wouldn't have felt guilty to the point where she attempted to take responsibility by committing suicide.

I think that the more likely explanation is that this was a sign of her true nature trying to recoil against the death stone's influence. Her trying to commit suicide is perhaps less an attempt at atonement than that it was the only thing she could do. I wouldn't be surprised if both elements were in play.

Originally Posted by careph

I'm not sure the theme you are talking about was even intentional, but it's certainly there and could do with a proper explanation. The point we're both so adamant on can also be explained with a simple amplification theory. After all, you can't amplify something that wasn't there from the start. The inhibition nullification theory is certainly an interesting one, but I think it conflicts with the original material (see above).

In that case, I think that we're pretty much on the same track; the difference just being where the onus of responsibility lies. On the bit about the theme, it's almost certainly intentional given how well directed Ga-rei Zero is.

Originally Posted by careph

Did she even try? I think her original intentions and goals didn't conflict much with the stone's nature, so there wasn't much need for her to rebel in the first place. She failed at luring Yomi into a trap and acting out her revenge and died as a result. I don't see a reason for her to break free here. Quite the contrary, she was disappointed that the stone ceased serving her via its regeneration abilities.

Unless Mei was completely faking her confusion and dismay before she died, she must have tried fighting against the influence of the death stone at some point.

Originally Posted by careph

Yomi did forgo more than one opportunity to kill Kagura, you yourself affirmed that she didn't go for maiming or killing blows when she could've easily finished Kagura off.

My point is that it would be one thing to avoid harming Kagura as that would be fighting against the influence, and another to do so as a result of the influence. The latter would be paradoxical, so it's on the unlikely side.

Originally Posted by careph

Exactly, that's why it was able to prevent her from committing suicide yet it was powerless against her staged suicide scheme.

It's simply enough: The death stone has a limited scope of capability, and Yomi's strong enough to exert a tiny bit of independence.

Originally Posted by careph

But then again there is also a scene in the woods in which Yomi complains about losing her consciousness again (i.e. the stone taking over). This would also be canon with the manga material, so all we're talking about here could just be inconsistent nonsense, merely there because the production team wanted to spice things up but didn't think it out.

That's unlikely as the rest of the show is thought through very carefully. That attention to detail is one of the main reasons why Ga-rei Zero is as good as it is. Canonicity (or more accurately, continuity) isn't too much of an issue since it's not inconceivable that later death stones work a bit differently from the ones in Ga-rei Zero.

[miroku2192]

Can't we petition for the producers of Ga Rei Zero to continue a story based off of Ga-rei zero? GRZ is much more popular (and better) than the regular GR series (IMO at least, and from what i gather online). It is just more fitting with the darker tone...and i feel if they are to make another season, they can't continue following the GR manga, have to make their own (with permission of author of course) path like GRZ, otherwise it might not turn out watchable...

I just feel like GRZ is popular enough, and profitable enough for them to make another season.

[MrTerrorist]

They could always follow the manga, but make it darker like Zero but still kept the humor.

[careph]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The only external restriction in my list is the fear of punishment.

You also cited societal norms, but I guess you're right, as that's just two sides of the same coin.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

And she didn't care about these factors when considering Kazuhiro's offer because she was too caught up in the moment of self-pity and anger.

I wasn't talking about the scene in the hospital at all. I was arguing that Yomi was very emotional from the start and that inhibitions didn't work with her all too well before she was given the stone. She was no normal human with normal values to begin with. That's part of what made her an appetising target. She had her own odd set of morals (incidentally coming close to the classic Greek ideal) and couldn't care less about possible punishment or the infraction of societal norms. That's why inhibition nullification wouldn't make much of a difference for her, as she acts on her emotions naturally in extreme situations.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I think that the more likely explanation is that this was a sign of her true nature trying to recoil against the death stone's influence.

That's another take on the issue and it's equally valid but it sounds unnecessarily victimising. Different impulses were at all times fighting for dominance over her body, so her true nature was present at all time.
And it still doesn't explain why she cried when torturing Kazuki.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Her trying to commit suicide is perhaps less an attempt at atonement than that it was the only thing she could do. I wouldn't be surprised if both elements were in play.

Well, she could've swallowed her damned pride and self-pity for once and asked for help. I doubt Kagura would have gone out to kill her, had she known Yomi was still alive and struggling.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Unless Mei was completely faking her confusion and dismay before she died, she must have tried fighting against the influence of the death stone at some point.

I think that's an over-interpretation. She simply didn't want to die, so begging for her life was the most logical course of action. At that point, the stone had already forsaken her, so it's quite redundant do rebel against something that has lost all its interest in you, don't you think?

One could also argue using a fundamentally different hypothesis: After Kazuhiro had placed the sesshouseki in Mei's chest, a single blue butterfly took flight from her body. Given that butterflies represent the human soul, it could mean that the real Mei was already dead and her soul detached from her body. Then, all that drove the stone were lingering emotions and intentions. In the long run, that alone wasn't sufficient, so it malfunctioned. In that case, her reaction prior to her death was nothing but a feint.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

My point is that it would be one thing to avoid harming Kagura as that would be fighting against the influence, and another to do so as a result of the influence. The latter would be paradoxical, so it's on the unlikely side.

I see. Though I would be more cautious with that last sentence. Yomi's relationship with Kagura was highly paradoxical. She loved her as a little sister (and possibly as the kind of person Yomi would've liked to be) but at the same time envy turned to hate over the alleged fact that she would never be able to achieve what true heirs like Kagura could. And then there's the hospital chaos for good measure.
The paradoxical aspect makes the theory more likely, not less, as the stone sets free tendencies (either by inhibition nullification or amplification) that were typical of the individual in question, thus resulting in the ambiguous encounters we see in the anime.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

On the bit about the theme, it's almost certainly intentional given how well directed Ga-rei Zero is.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

That's unlikely as the rest of the show is thought through very carefully. That attention to detail is one of the main reasons why Ga-rei Zero is as good as it is. Canonicity (or more accurately, continuity) isn't too much of an issue since it's not inconceivable that later death stones work a bit differently from the ones in Ga-rei Zero.

I can't support these sentiments.
When it is so well thought through then why is Ranguren portrayed to be so much more powerful and handy than Byakuei even though the latter is supposed to be the strongest spiritual beast?
Why do we see Kagura's father on the verge of exhaustion when trying to fuse with Byakuei yet Kagura only needs to put it in her earlobe when she inherits it, skipping the large-scale ritual?
There were a few other things that bugged me back then, but I forgot most of them over time.
Lots of stuff seemed either misplaced, random, forced or vague to the point of redundancy.
I wouldn't mind that much if Ga-Rei Zero was merely a bonus for fans of the original material, but as a stand-alone spin-off I expected more explanations and lore consistency.
Especially compared to what Ei Aoki did with the first Kara no Kyoukai movie, the direction was rather lackluster with a few deceptive strokes of genius.

[Kino karutta-chan]

@Miroku

It would be watchable, but I don't think that many people would watch it ;/

---

You aren't talking about the current chapters of Ga-Rei?? Did you drop it??

Well, I really hope, that the real Yomi will be back, but I am not sure, if that will be possible.

[MrTerrorist]

Here's an Ask John article from AnimeNation if GRZ will ever get a US release.
Article

[Kanzaki Urumi]

I wish to see the butterfly guy dead. Annoying like hell.

[darkmaster074]

they must make s2 for this nime

[klare]

the ending already connected to the starting of the manga, s2 following manga?

maybe they can tell an older story like how they able to capture that white beast or that lion in the katana

no matter how they do it, Yomi will not be shown (as human form)...

[scr]

Originally Posted by darkmaster074

they must make s2 for this nime

Spoiler for manga and anime marketing tactics:

Likely. The current arc in the manga is dealing with Yomi again (no, i can't give you more info about that). Kadokawa can't be making an anime about Yomi and then having Yomi chapters again in the manga without expecting yet another anime about Yomi... they want to keep Yomi popular, and they want their investments to return many times greater.

Kadokawa is a master troll.

"People die when they are killed" ? No, my friend... some people refuse to stay dead. IMO Yomi is like the Tarrasque.

[Nine Devil]

Ga-rei Zero is really a great anime, I enjoyed it a lot. I should start reading the manga as well

[Yu Ominae]

Files of the 4th Division, Chapter 7

Nice to see some feedback from the show despite the show having a short run. I did a fanfic on the 4th Division. Here's their latest chapter though. A slice of life-type one though.

[Nita]

What is the date release of Ga Rei chapter 47? I just read the manga and I'm stunned D:

[Ansalem]

I just finished watching this and I have to say I was very impressed. Having started the show without any previous knowledge about it or the manga, the first episode certainly gave a nice "WTF moment" at the end. The characters were compelling and well written, and it built to a nice end. The last show was a bit anticlimactic, ending in the middle, but it makes sense as it is only a prequel (which took me to the last episode to realize, despite having zero in the name >>) I am hoping they will continue the anime based on the manga sometime in the future. It seems a fair amount of people were generally unimpressed by the manga, which makes me a bit worried. However, it seems a bit unrealistic to think they would set the end of Zero at the start of the manga if they were going to make more original plot anime. Hopefully the same team would work on a manga-based continuation and inject the same skill that made the prequel so enjoyable into adapting the plot for television.

[Synria_]

Wow just finished this and the last episode confused me:

Spoiler for Last episode:

Who is Ken chan in the end with kagura? Did kiri lose all her memories pretty much as well that president? Obviously new president now, noriyuki is just some hobo kagura is now on a mission

[careph]

Originally Posted by Synria_

Wow just finished this and the last episode confused me:

Spoiler for Last episode:

Who is Ken chan in the end with kagura? Did kiri lose all her memories pretty much as well that president? Obviously new president now, noriyuki is just some hobo kagura is now on a mission

Spoiler:

Ken-chan (Kensuke Nimura) is the manga's protagonist and Kagura's lover.
The president didn't lose her memories, otherwise she couldn't remember how Yomi didn't kill her back then. Her assistent though seems to suffer from some kind of mental illness.

[juyokka]

a little coment
Ga-Rei_Zero!
GREAT ARTWORK
and YOMI & KAGURA
Super KAWAIII!

[willyvereb]

My points:
Mei did try to fight against the stone's influence. But her will wasn't as strong and her desires were dark and selfish. She wanted Yomi to die by fighting against an evil spirit. Afterall it's probably only the matter of time. But that never happened. But she never wanted to do such things like killing Naraku and else. Without the stone she would've waited maybe even for all eternity for her chance.

Yomi: she had it bad and tragedies occour with her again. First of all I would doubt many people could resist the desire to kill somone after they playfully claim to have killed the person's own father and even describe how she tortured him. Especially if they have the Alibi. Afterall that person is possessed somehow. And eliminating evil spirits is her responsibility. So in the end she was caught in it.

And probably because of her growing dark side and her extreme circumstances that she was resigned to the Death Stone. It was explained that the Death stone releases every inhibition the person had. For example if somone pisses her off she can't hold her anger back, or when she has resentment towards anyone she wants to kill him/her. Same with jaelusy. Perhaps it means the same to love. She had absolutely zero desire to kill Noriyuki that's why she left him alive. It was a bit different with Kagura. She was jaelus of her skill, her family line, and her happyness. And perhaps she loved her like her own blood-related sister. In the end the later one was triumphant and she let herself killed by Kagura.

But maybe the Death Stone has somehow it's own will too. And it enchances the person's malacious impulses. That's why the Yomi we saw in the manga was a different one and was almost fully evil.
So in short when Kagura's mind died the Death Stone's will took over. But I guess the death Stone's own will is relatively weak or at least weak compared to the willpower of an exortist's.