Medaka Box [Manga]

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by noobita

Naruto used Shadow Shuriken technique (FRS with FRS) on God Realm. It is nothing to do with duplication techniques. Henge is a basic technique but Naruto did use it against God Realm. Whether it is a basic technique that everyone knows or not, it is still a skill. You cannot disregard that. Also, I'm pretty sure that Naruto know Shunshin.

Naruto don't have billions of techniques, but he definitely have more than 3 techniques.

My point is, what'wrong for Zenkichi to have more than 3 techniques? Why must Ajimu want Zenkichi to have 1 technique when he can have more?

Well Nayro exists in a universe which allows you to learn several techniques and abilities by just using Chakra, however his primary and unique ability is the nine-tailed fox, if he did not have that all the abilities he acquired could used by other.

Anyway point of what Aijimu was talking about was how hax he is and unfair in comparison to his opposition. Medaka how has one hax ability an extremely hax ability but still only one. Now if Zenkichi has several hax abilities or even several decently good abilities that are perfect count to Medaka, then that means the fight is extremely unfair from the start and typically in Shounen the story tends to favour the heroes that are generally weaker than the overpowered villans hence the need for ass pulls etc.

[zeando]

Originally Posted by noobita

My point is, what'wrong for Zenkichi to have more than 3 techniques? Why must Ajimu want Zenkichi to have 1 technique when he can have more?

they are not talking about techs, but skills(or in this case plus or minus), it's different
medaka has 1 skill(plus), but using that skill has aquired many techinques(copied from other skills, but she still own only 1 skill)

sometime before it was stated that having a plus or minus cause stress to the personality, so having more plus and/or minus at the same time can make one go crazy, and zen must remains selfconscious

[Lummie]

Just caught up and wow >.<"

Spoiler for First guess that came to mind about Zen's choice...:

How about the ability that allows you to turn an abnormal into a plain normal? Why this? From the sound of it, Zen made it seem like his wish is not easy, especially if he witnessed that Kumagawa failed to nulify Emukae's abnormality earlier through all fiction. Nisio could use Kuma's earlier fail to distract readers that this might be the ability.

Secondly, we know from Zen's character that he wishes to use his own strength (evident from several chaps). With this ability, he could turn any battle into a fair-and-square one by turning someone not weaker, or stronger but let's say, the same level of normalness...if that makes sense in my explanation. Knowing him, he'd be convinced that he gets to keep his pride because he didn't essentialy cheat against an opponent who has cheat codes in his blood.

Thirdly, Medaka has so many forms, so many abilities but what would she gain if she used the end to perfect the ability "to make someone normal"? She can't use it against him honestly. That's one weakness. Also, it's possible for her who like stated earlier, who's so powerful, to be shaken up in battle to become for once a normal (temporarily, who knows what could bring it back tho). It could mess up her balance and it could turn into a convincing victory. (bonus for her to finally understand normal people more?)

Lastly, this ability is in contrast to Hanten's ability that creates skills to turn people into abnormals which is the incarnation of the flaskplan. It's an convincing ability or symbol that stands against Ajimu's plans to grant people power through the flask plan. My guess is that no one ever requested an ability to take abnormalities away which suprised Ajimu and in her case probably unheard of. To conclude my point; It's also useful would he encounter some day people like Emukae who saw life negative due their unwanted ability, so he could help them, making it also useful in the long term and not only in his fight with Medaka.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this before in the topic, but my arguments for the theory should add some value to the post (?)

[DawnEmperor]

Originally Posted by noobita

Naruto used Shadow Shuriken technique (FRS with FRS) on God Realm. It is nothing to do with duplication techniques. Henge is a basic technique but Naruto did use it against God Realm. Whether it is a basic technique that everyone knows or not, it is still a skill. You cannot disregard that. Also, I'm pretty sure that Naruto know Shunshin.

Naruto don't have billions of techniques, but he definitely have more than 3 techniques.

My point is, what'wrong for Zenkichi to have more than 3 techniques? Why must Ajimu want Zenkichi to have 1 technique when he can have more?

You're taking it way too literally. As you said, Naruto has more than three techniques, but you're concentrating on specifically three techniques. Ajimu was presumably trying to make the point that heroes do not have that many skills, they just utilize them to the fullest.

The luffy example definitely fits. Luffy's skill is being made of rubber, but he has found many different applications for it; augmenting the range of his attacks, increasing power, and greater speed. In Psyren, the main character primarily relies on his Black burst power, but devises several different forms for it.

Ajimu is not the most honest figure either, so limiting Zenkichi's abilities could be very in -character for her

[zeando]

Originally Posted by Lummie

Just caught up and wow >.<"

Spoiler for First guess that came to mind about Zen's choice...:

How about the ability that allows you to turn an abnormal into a plain normal? Why this? From the sound of it, Zen made it seem like his wish is not easy, especially if he witnessed that Kumagawa failed to nulify Emukae's abnormality earlier through all fiction. Nisio could use Kuma's earlier fail to distract readers that this might be the ability.

Secondly, we know from Zen's character that he wishes to use his own strength (evident from several chaps). With this ability, he could turn any battle into a fair-and-square one by turning someone not weaker, or stronger but let's say, the same level of normalness...if that makes sense in my explanation. Knowing him, he'd be convinced that he gets to keep his pride because he didn't essentialy cheat against an opponent who has cheat codes in his blood.

Thirdly, Medaka has so many forms, so many abilities but what would she gain if she used the end to perfect the ability "to make someone normal"? She can't use it against him honestly. That's one weakness. Also, it's possible for her who like stated earlier, who's so powerful, to be shaken up in battle to become for once a normal (temporarily, who knows what could bring it back tho). It could mess up her balance and it could turn into a convincing victory. (bonus for her to finally understand normal people more?)

Lastly, this ability is in contrast to Hanten's ability that creates skills to turn people into abnormals which is the incarnation of the flaskplan. It's an convincing ability or symbol that stands against Ajimu's plans to grant people power through the flask plan. My guess is that no one ever requested an ability to take abnormalities away which suprised Ajimu and in her case probably unheard of. To conclude my point; It's also useful would he encounter some day people like Emukae who saw life negative due their unwanted ability, so he could help them, making it also useful in the long term and not only in his fight with Medaka.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this before in the topic, but my arguments for the theory should add some value to the post (?)

i was thinking the same thing =O but i was limiting it to have effect only on zen
in short an "ability which remove any ability possessed by the owner(except this ability)"
but if you expand it to have effect on anyone that would be very interesting, as it could remove the battle power manga traits from the story, and would be a first step in ajimu total defeat

about turning others in normals to have a fair balanced battle i don't really agree, zen is an expert is being strong using no abilities, someone who just got his/her ability removed would ba at disadvantage, if that ability were to be applied on anyone zen would become probably the strongest

[urca]

Spoiler for 123??:

wait a minute,what's the abillity Zen asked for?

[Odd]

Originally Posted by urca

Spoiler for 123??:

wait a minute,what's the abillity Zen asked for?

It was purposely hidden by the mangaka so it's more of a surprise when he first uses it in battle.

[Lummie]

Originally Posted by zeando

about turning others in normals to have a fair balanced battle i don't really agree, zen is an expert is being strong using no abilities, someone who just got his/her ability removed would ba at disadvantage, if that ability were to be applied on anyone zen would become probably the strongest

You can't of course apply it to everyone. But there are a fair number of people without abnormality out there who still could pose a fair balanced challenge like Munakata for example. It varies from each person and how much they relied on their abnormality.

However, you can conclude that making them normal and making them fight with their own strength while not being influenced by some sort of ability is closer to the definition of "fair fight" then having some kid shooting lasers at you from his eyes in a fight.

[Westlo]

Medaka hasn't quite lost yet.. though making her lose right now would be quite the swerve...

lol @ most of the original "spoilers" being some Zenkichi fanwank, as if Medaka would be praying for Prince Zen to rescue her lol..

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Just like assuming that creating all fiction from another skill does make sense. That is what an asspull is. When there is an absense of logical explanation by the author. Kumagawa has had book maker his entire life until he got a hundred gauntlets. Are you saying that through that time he would have never bothered modifying it to all fiction if he could and only after he lost all fiction something he created, that he realises he could have made with his original ability all along?

Man tone down the Kumagawa hate (Imaishi probably quit Gainax when he found out they weren't going to animate Kumagawa ) and quit drinking kool-aid, it's quite simple.

Original Skill - Bookmaker

Trades - Bookmaker for Hundred Gauntlets

Upgrades - Hundred Gauntlets to All Fiction via extensive DIY renovations.

Trades - Hundred Gauntlets for Bookmaker, keeps all the extra stuff from upgraded All Fiction

Revives - All Fiction but without Hundred Gauntlets it is in a weaker form, uses "cheaper" materials to provide the HG base to All Fiction to make it work.

As for why he didn't change Bookmaker to All Fiction maybe it's because he needed the "blueprints" to do so, and since he had All Fiction before making an inferior version of it was possible. (think of how Doc in Back to The Future when stuck in the wild west made some things equivalent to modern day inventions with older materials)

Drop the car analogy, think of it as building something and the end result was Hundred Gauntlets. Than he vastly improved it to make it All Fiction, the base was gone when he swapped with Ajimu but he still knew how to make it (since he had the blueprints from getting HG in the first place) so now he has a weaker/inferior but still very effective version of All Fiction.

[Sixth]

By the way, what's Hundred Gauntlet? I can't remember what it does.

[Westlo]

I don't think she's explained what it could do but you would think it was similar in some manner to All Fiction, lol if Zen asked for Hundred Gauntlets.

[Takigashima]

Hundred gauntlet wasn't traded per se with bookmaker, he had both. Just that hundred gauntlet was used as an addon to bookmaker, when he "traded" it back, he only gave back hundred gauntlet much like uninstalling the Addon.

When he got back all fiction, he essentially installed a crappier version of the same Addon which left out all the cool features (like forcibly turning the uniforms into aprons).

[Westlo]

So in short, HG was Iphone 3, AF was Iphone 3GS and now AF2.0 is a Samsung Galaxy!

[Takigashima]

AF 2.0 is more like a Motorola, Samsung Galaxy s is a pretty good phone

[zeando]

Originally Posted by Lummie

You can't of course apply it to everyone. But there are a fair number of people without abnormality out there who still could pose a fair balanced challenge like Munakata for example. It varies from each person and how much they relied on their abnormality.

However, you can conclude that making them normal and making them fight with their own strength while not being influenced by some sort of ability is closer to the definition of "fair fight" then having some kid shooting lasers at you from his eyes in a fight.

ah well, sure, you're right, i forgot about the specials, like akune
and yes, it would become a more fair battle settings, more near to seinen that shounen i think

[MD84]

So Kumagawa basically modified Hundred Gauntlets to create All-fiction. When he traded away the original Hundred Gauntlets to get Bookmaker back, he was able to create a weaker version of All-fiction based on his modifications of Hundred Gauntlets. Apparently this is something that only someone as "gross" (according to Naze and Ajimu) as Kumagawa is able to do.

This new All-fiction probably isn't strong enough to make him a total gamebreaker again, but it's powerful enough to keep him from dying at least.

Makes about as much sense as anything else in this series.

edit:

Is it weird that I enjoy seeing Tsurubame troll Medaka? All he does during their "fight" is mock her so called super modes and MC status.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Medaka hasn't quite lost yet.. though making her lose right now would be quite the swerve...

lol @ most of the original "spoilers" being some Zenkichi fanwank, as if Medaka would be praying for Prince Zen to rescue her lol..



Man tone down the Kumagawa hate (Imaishi probably quit Gainax when he found out they weren't going to animate Kumagawa ) and quit drinking kool-aid, it's quite simple.

Original Skill - Bookmaker

Trades - Bookmaker for Hundred Gauntlets

Upgrades - Hundred Gauntlets to All Fiction via extensive DIY renovations.

Trades - Hundred Gauntlets for Bookmaker, keeps all the extra stuff from upgraded All Fiction

Revives - All Fiction but without Hundred Gauntlets it is in a weaker form, uses "cheaper" materials to provide the HG base to All Fiction to make it work.

As for why he didn't change Bookmaker to All Fiction maybe it's because he needed the "blueprints" to do so, and since he had All Fiction before making an inferior version of it was possible. (think of how Doc in Back to The Future when stuck in the wild west made some things equivalent to modern day inventions with older materials)

Drop the car analogy, think of it as building something and the end result was Hundred Gauntlets. Than he vastly improved it to make it All Fiction, the base was gone when he swapped with Ajimu but he still knew how to make it (since he had the blueprints from getting HG in the first place) so now he has a weaker/inferior but still very effective version of All Fiction.

Rofl at what point was I hating on Kumagawa, your defensive fanboism is crazy calling something an ass pull and not liking a character are generally separate things unless said character does it a lot. In this case I'm hating on Nisio, I like Kumagawa so I don't get were your getting that from.

It's far, far too conviently and extremely lucky for such an event to naturally happen. He just so happened to have the right materials to recreate something that he originally created because it was extremely useful and never did it before with the materials he had since the begining because? Yeah perfectly logical.

If you had the ability to create an ability that could negate death with inferior components why the hell would you not do if you have all the components to do it. I mean you modify something else to acquire that ability and then suddenly realised you could do it with your own ability after you lose said ability and the thought never occured for you to do it before.

I'm sorry but any logical person that could create an ability like all fiction from Bookmaker would do it instantly, anyone that would not, would probably have a problem with the concept of all fiction something Kumagawa lacks considering he created it in the first place.

[osorito]

Chapter 123 is out on MangaFox!

[Soji]

Originally Posted by MD84

edit:

Is it weird that I enjoy seeing Tsurubame troll Medaka? All he does during their "fight" is mock her so called super modes and MC status.

Lol if you are weird for that ,then I'm weird for enojoy the interaction between Zen and Najimi.
Speaking frankly she right about the oneself and it seems that what Najim said about this hit Zen.

I wonder if his ability does not have anything to do with the oneself

Well one thing is sure is as to be something exceptional (for better or for the worse) to make even Najimi react that way XD

[MD84]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

I'm sorry but any logical person that could create an ability like all fiction from Bookmaker would do it instantly, anyone that would not, would probably have a problem with the concept of all fiction something Kumagawa lacks considering he created it in the first place.

TBF, Kumagawa isn't really a logical person. And he didn't create it from Bookmaker, he made it from the leftover modifications he made to Hundred Gauntlets. At least the new All-fiction isn't an outright invincibility cheat like the original one -- it may not be able to do more than keep Kumagawa from dying.