SOTM 2008 - April (Dress Code: Female: Elegant/Ceremonial) - Entry Phase

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Setsilya~

Also to the file size limit, this is the first art contest I seen with a size limit. A art contest's purpose to compete to make the finest artwork, not to actually create a file with least size as possible. What is the point of having it? It only decrease the flexibility of your artwork as well as the quality of it. Very humorous why we even have such rule as to limiting it to 50kb.

Solace actually gave you reasons for the limits that are rather sensible. I don't say this to be mean, but do you see that this is the "SOTM" contest? It isn't a generic art contest, this is a "signature of the month" contest - that's the premise of the contest. Signatures correspond to signatures on this forum. To maintain decent load times and ensure that images don't get in the way of the discussions the staff have established rules on file size, dimensions, and content.

If you want to start an overall art contest, you're free to. Set your own requirements for it. Otherwise, the entire foundation of what we're competing through in this contest is based on a theme and the signature requirements. The limits make things more difficult, but we're all bound by them - it's another aspect where skill is required, to make your work look good within the dimension and file size limits. If you don't like it, don't participate. If you like the idea of contests and want it to be an overall art contest, start one up.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Setsilya~

Yea you should put those rule in the OP...seriously. Not just somewhere in the thread. Like "Please try to title/state your final entry" I don't think anyone is going to read the whole thread for some rules or hints on format...

Two people out of 46 didn't include any mention of their entry being the one they officially want to enter. Just two. And yet they are still in the contest. What exactly is the problem?

1. You can get used to making your signature size smaller?
2. Takes 2 second to lower down the size. But affecting the quality will lower your rating... durr durr
3. ........Such foresight.

Again, you aren't giving me any examples and your arguments aren't strong.

1. Considering the large amount of graphic designers here, I'd say people have gotten used to it.
2. If it's that simple to lower the size, then there's no problem with sticking to the rule, right? Lower quality affecting rating is opinion, not fact.
3. Beats the alternative.

The rule simply limit the ability of the artist without any proper(Ahem Proper) reason and I won't be satisfy if you don't give me a proper reason why there is a rule like that.

No sorry, it doesn't work like that. You haven't given me any examples and your arguments are based on opinion. I could have just said "I made the sig rules like that because I could", but instead I gave specific reasons. Sorry that doesn't work for you, but then again you aren't being very specific either. Show me a signature that couldn't be done within the rules and then you'll have a better argument to stand on.

[Izayoi]

Whatever I am not going waste my time, simply futility to try and tell you guys such rule is pointless. And the most pointless factor is I am not even entering. Clearly abstract is superior. Though it is humorous how you are saying lowing the quality does not affect artist's ability. I might as well Sig that. What are you going to tell me next? All physical law is a opinion? If you want a example how about try taking a signature, compress it to lowest file size and tell me it doesn't affect the ability of the artist. People seems to be fine with it then well do whatever you want lol.

edit: Well argument ends here, no offense or anything. Glad I can let out what I think.

[Solace]

Nah. I'm done arguing. You can't handle something as simple as burden of proof (even going so far as to link a picture demonstrating exactly how this argument is going), so it's not worth my time. You've turned to trolling, and I won't feed that. But grats on putting words in my mouth.

On that note, voting thread will be up shortly. Apologies for the delay.

EDIT: Voting thread is now up. http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=65565

[Izayoi]

Trolling? I am trying to put out something with proper thinking and you call it trolling. GJ. If I was trolling I think there is a way better to do it. By saying something I aren't proves you nothing but ...I am not going to say anymore.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Setsilya~

Trolling? I am trying to put out something with proper thinking and you call it trolling. GJ. If I was trolling I think there is a way better to do it. By saying something I aren't proves you nothing but ...I am not going to say anymore.

Let's review:

You ask a question about the sig rule. You claim the size limit restricts artist creativity/ability.

I state my reasons and ask for examples demonstrating your proof that sig size limit hurts artistic creativity/ability.

You respond with opinion.

I respond with my opinion and again, ask for examples.

You respond saying that the argument is a waste of your time, put words in my mouth, and pull a straw man argument with a poor analogy. You then try to turn my request around on me, asking *me* for burden of proof. Finally, you post a picture demonstrating exactly how much you care about proving your point.

At which point I respond by calling you a troll.

You once again try and make me out to be the one at fault here and add a masked insult.

That brings us to now.


You haven't produced any proof to back up your claims that the sig rules limit creativity. And you won't, because you would have done it by now. You can't be bothered, clearly. It's a waste of your precious time. You can edit a post twenty times, but picking out a couple of signatures and showing how the file size limit hurts artistic creativity is more time than you want to spend.

You can't bring a solid argument to the table and you know it. So I'll do the work for you, even though I have no need to use burden of proof. I'll do it just to prove my point.

Example time! Lots of images, pardon the bandwidth. I did not make this signature, I found a PSD pack and chose this one because it was anime related. It's a pretty typical example of a forum signature. It's got the C4d, a neat render, cool text, lots of colors, an interesting background and a nice pose. While not the most jaw dropping example of creativity, it's a solid showcase of sig making skill.

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GIF Image, max quality. No dither, no lossy, Perceptual:


GIF Image, optimized for Animesuki. No lossy, no dither, Perceptual:


Of the GIF Images, the formats limited color palette shows here. Gradients are affected but the image is quite viewable and all elements are easy to see.

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JPEG Image, max quality. I selected Maximum Quality (100 percent):


JPEG Image, optimized for Animesuki using High Quality (60 percent):


I tried to keep the Jpeg low quality version as close to the max quality verison without artifacts becoming prominent. I got to 60 percent of max quality before artifacts became obvious.

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PNG-8, max quality. No dither, no lossy, Perceptual:


PNG-8. I felt showing that max quality was still well under the size limit was enough.

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PNG-24, max quality. Transparency and Interlaced selected:


PNG-24 is by far the highest file size of this image batch. Compared to the Jpeg versions, the image isn't superior in quality unless compared to lower quality version.

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Now, there are problems with optimizing to fit under the file size, I will admit. And because of those limits, sometimes artistic creativity *can* be compromised. These instances are transparencies, and animated images. Transparencies can be faked, but animation does suffer. However, the creative person can get around the size limits, as demonstrated in this forum many times over. So is the limit hurting that person or forcing them to be more creative? That's always going to be debatable.

Now, there's my rational argument with examples. I've shown you mine, now show me yours. Until then, all I have to say is put up, or shut up.

[NightWish]

I see the vote thread is now up so I am going to lock this one. Discussion about the entry phase should have finished by now anyway. Topics of general contest interest should be in the contest's Generic Discussion Thread and anything addressed at one person should go via private message.