Gurren-Lagann - Episode 27 (END) Discussion / Poll

[darkdarkdark]

Originally Posted by hivetyrant36

What is the song that starts when Anti-Spiral is talking to Nia?
I've looked everywhere and can't find it. also, if anyone needs any theoretical explanations I can help.

Haha, you could try google/torrents but other than that I have no idea

[hivetyrant36]

It's like Libera' Me, but slower and piano and I want to learn how to play it...

[Chiibi]

Epic ending was epic.

Don't look at me like that-I am slow with buying anime but I starting watching the series online and liked it enough to go buy the whole thing this past Otakon.

Right....well....gah Nia's death is sad-f**k I was still sad about KAMINA and the KaminaxYoko thing.....but what I don't get is why fans are so so upset because this really isn't good-bye to ANYBODY. As we saw in episode 26, Simon DID see Kamina's spirit again and all the others and they could talk to each other and everything (I cried XD) SO don't you guys think once Simon and Yoko reach the end of their lives, they WILL be reunited with their loved ones!?

Sure, it's a bit of a wait for them.....but it's not eternity. They will all be happy together in the afterlife, for we've been shown that it DOES exist for them. Simon and Nia will definitely be together again.

Only problem now is KaminaxYokoxKittan.....they will fight over her.
Well, sorry Kittan...you're cool but I'm STILL on Kamina's side on that one. GO MAN!! TAKE YOUR WOMAN BACK!!!
Row row fight da shipwar

[darkdarkdark]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Epic ending was epic.

Don't look at me like that-I am slow with buying anime but I starting watching the series online and liked it enough to go buy the whole thing this past Otakon.

Right....well....gah Nia's death is sad-f**k I was still sad about KAMINA and the KaminaxYoko thing.....but what I don't get is why fans are so so upset because this really isn't good-bye to ANYBODY. As we saw in episode 26, Simon DID see Kamina's spirit again and all the others and they could talk to each other and everything (I cried XD) SO don't you guys think once Simon and Yoko reach the end of their lives, they WILL be reunited with their loved ones!?

Sure, it's a bit of a wait for them.....but it's not eternity. They will all be happy together in the afterlife, for we've been shown that it DOES exist for them. Simon and Nia will definitely be together again.

Only problem now is KaminaxYokoxKittan.....they will fight over her.
Well, sorry Kittan...you're cool but I'm STILL on Kamina's side on that one. GO MAN!! TAKE YOUR WOMAN BACK!!!
Row row fight da shipwar

Simon did not necessarily see Kamina again, it was a dream. It still is depressing to see that the hero who saved the universe cannot be allowed to keep the woman he loved. And also, fans are upset because the ending was just plain stupid. There was really no point to kill Nia but Gainax threw it in for the lulz.

[Madal]

Originally Posted by darkdarkdark

Simon did not necessarily see Kamina again, it was a dream. It still is depressing to see that the hero who saved the universe cannot be allowed to keep the woman he loved. And also, fans are upset because the ending was just plain stupid. There was really no point to kill Nia but Gainax threw it in for the lulz.

There is a very good chance that that was indeed Kamina. In fact, I'm almost assured that it was the Kamina we all know. For one, if you would recall Simon talked to him once the "dreams" or more accurately- halucinations (since the purpose of the multi dimentional maze was to preocupy conciousness till death while you stay uncosious in a dream) weren't holding him anymore. Second, the place where they met is something like a porch or a passage to the afterlife. You could almost say that Kamina came out to welcome Simon as if he were already dead. He would probably wait there utill all his freinds joined him (which he actually said in one of the books). Third, this scene is referred by the directors as "Simon's and Kamina's scene" not "Simon halucinates and talkes to himself" (which honestly would just be depressing). Same about Yoko ("...They were able to meet and that was sufficient", "in the presence of you, no words are needed"). In that sense it's hopeful that they were given a chance like that. Lagan-hen makes it even more obvious with the appearance of Kittan where it's clear that he had just made it into the afterlife.
I thought that the ending was brilliant and bittersweet. Nia's death was not stupid, it was given an explanation which you can reject but you can't disregard it. it think that there was also a motif in it for her as a character, that she was a heroine who did not back before the sacrifice. It sort of makes her more memorable as a character. A happy life with Simon would just be fans cheap whish fulfillment and Gainax doesn't do those often. What buggs me is that given her nature after the Anti-spirals reconstructed her as the Messanger, would she be able to go to heaven? When they turned her into an artificial life form (practically erasing her body and personality), where did her soul go? Nobody ever adresses that. I don't even know what the Anti-spiral Nia IS? A walking talking Mugan?

[Chiibi]

I agree with Madal. It was never stated officially that Simon was only dreaming. I think that is left up to the viewer to decide (just like Gainax likes to do.) And I think if Nia has feelings and a mind of her own, she must have a soul...so I think she would go to the afterlife/heaven (whatever exists in the GL world )

[darkdarkdark]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

I agree with Madal. It was never stated officially that Simon was only dreaming. I think that is left up to the viewer to decide (just like Gainax likes to do.) And I think if Nia has feelings and a mind of her own, she must have a soul...so I think she would go to the afterlife/heaven (whatever exists in the GL world )

Well, Madal brings up a good point regarding both subjects. I still edge toward the dream; it was just Kamina was the most important person in both Simon and Yoko's lives, which I believe made him appear. However, it is also TTGl, anything is possible with Kamina and Simon. But yes, I do think that your version could also be a logical explanation too, it makes sense.

I don't know about the whole soul subject though. She was created by Anti-Spirals, so technically she was not a living being. But, she also did have human emotions and was projected in a human form.

[demonkevy666]

Originally Posted by darkdarkdark

Well, Madal brings up a good point regarding both subjects. I still edge toward the dream; it was just Kamina was the most important person in both Simon and Yoko's lives, which I believe made him appear. However, it is also TTGl, anything is possible with Kamina and Simon. But yes, I do think that your version could also be a logical explanation too, it makes sense.

I don't know about the whole soul subject though. She was created by Anti-Spirals, so technically she was not a living being. But, she also did have human emotions and was projected in a human form.

She wasn't created by anti-spiral, she was created by the spiral king ?
who rejected her because of her humanity. he found it scary and disgusting to him, how they got killed. they'd do anything to live on the surface.
she was basically stolen to be a messenger.
also viral who immortal, said beastmen which Nai was couldn't reproduc,e they're all cloned.

Kamina was real, he touched Sihmon.

Spoiler for Kamina's death:

after he found he dad was gone I think Kamina wanted to be with him and he knew his death was soon because it would be the only way to see him again.

The anti-spiral said they where real dimensional universes.
Created to suit they're wants to immobilize them, their minds, from evolving further. so they're physical in the 11th dimenton when he says this and the spiral king talk to the anti-spiral.

Spoiler for Kiss of death:

any one Yoko ever kissed went out in a blaze of heroism

when the spiral king went OVERLOAD MODE OH I was like O_O DAMN~!

I was hoping sihmon would went after yoko.
I mean she threw the ring back to him ?
Lastly I don't understand why he as just walking around on the the planet after all this

[darkdarkdark]

Originally Posted by demonkevy666

She wasn't created by anti-spiral, she was created by the spiral king ?
who rejected her because of her humanity. he found it scary and disgusting to him, how they got killed. they'd do anything to live on the surface.
she was basically stolen to be a messenger.
also viral who immortal, said beastmen which Nai was couldn't reproduc,e they're all cloned.

Kamina was real, he touched Sihmon.

Spoiler for Kamina's death:

after he found he dad was gone I think Kamina wanted to be with him and he knew his death was soon because it would be the only way to see him again.

The anti-spiral said they where real dimensional universes.
Created to suit they're wants to immobilize them, their minds, from evolving further. so they're physical in the 11th dimenton when he says this and the spiral king talk to the anti-spiral.

Spoiler for Kiss of death:

any one Yoko ever kissed went out in a blaze of heroism

when the spiral king went OVERLOAD MODE OH I was like O_O DAMN~!

I was hoping sihmon would went after yoko.
I mean she threw the ring back to him ?
Lastly I don't understand why he as just walking around on the the planet after all this

No, Nia was created by the anti-spirals as a messenger to earth. Kamina was real.. but I was debating whether he was when Simon was 'dreaming'

I wondered why Simon wouldn't go after Yoko too, but I thought about it. Yoko was Kamina's girl, Simon isn't the guy who steals his brother's girl. She threw the ring back because it landed at her feet, she isn't just going to leave it lying on the floor. It's as Simon said, he is Simon the digger. He's being true to himself, he was always the more reserved, quiet guy to begin with not necessarily a big leader figure.

[demonkevy666]

Originally Posted by darkdarkdark

No, Nia was created by the anti-spirals as a messenger to earth. Kamina was real.. but I was debating whether he was when Simon was 'dreaming'

I wondered why Simon wouldn't go after Yoko too, but I thought about it. Yoko was Kamina's girl, Simon isn't the guy who steals his brother's girl. She threw the ring back because it landed at her feet, she isn't just going to leave it lying on the floor. It's as Simon said, he is Simon the digger. He's being true to himself, he was always the more reserved, quiet guy to begin with not necessarily a big leader figure.

she's both anti-spiral and spiral :/ she is fact spliced from human and beastman. that is what the anti-sprial said.

that beastman Viral got the best he's frickin immortal !

[darkdarkdark]

Originally Posted by demonkevy666

she's both anti-spiral and spiral :/ she is fact spliced from human and beastman. that is what the anti-sprial said.

that beastman Viral got the best he's frickin immortal !

I don't quite remember the anti-spiral saying that, but it's been a while

I wouldn't say Viral got the best... remember that he can't die and can't have a family either (children that is). He will soon outgrow all of his friends and watch them die. That sucks.

[faythz]

watch it for three times and finnaly i can say the ending is very Epic in every aspect
at least Nia had her happiness even it just a short time. for Simon finnaly he could lay low didn't involve in political again and do many things just adventure adventure like a spiral never stop

aghh i'd Love to watch this in Blu-Ray

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by faythz

watch it for three times and finnaly i can say the ending is very Epic in every aspect
at least Nia had her happiness even it just a short time. for Simon finnaly he could lay low didn't involve in political again and do many things just adventure adventure like a spiral never stop

aghh i'd Love to watch this in Blu-Ray

If you liked the anime series, I bet you would like the movies, as well. They are Gurren-hen and Lagann-hen, respectively. Gurren-hen covers episodes 1-16 (pre-timeskip), and Lagann-hen covers everything 17-26 (post-timeskip). Gurren-hen is pretty good, but Lagann-hen is AWESOME. It is seriously epic.

They change a few things here and there to accomodate the shorter running time of the movies, but Lagann-hen is awesome, because the ending is so massively epic no words can truly describe it. Lagann-hen is worth seeing, if for no other reason than seeing Simon go fisticuffs with the Antispiral.

[GL_4_Life90]

The ending is just pure epicness!! Being as late to the series as I am, i just cant get enough of TTGL! But i do wish they hadn't killed off Nia. Like Simon found a way to ensure Nia would't disapear after the Anit-Spirals were defeated. Thats just what i think, even with that it was a good ending.

[darkdarkdark]

Originally Posted by GL_4_Life90

The ending is just pure epicness!! Being as late to the series as I am, i just cant get enough of TTGL! But i do wish they hadn't killed off Nia. Like Simon found a way to ensure Nia would't disapear after the Anit-Spirals were defeated. Thats just what i think, even with that it was a good ending.

Now watch the movie(s)!!!! Lagann hen is a must see!!!!!

[sirculbs]

Honestly, im tired of every anime out there feeling the need to end semi-tragically. Sure, tragedy does encure a lot more emotion than a romantic happy ending like what we would have had if nia lived, but honestly after watching series after series ive come to believe that everyone is using this "the main character gets the girl but doesnt really get the girl" plot. It ticks me off. I believe that viewers would be more satisfied if they made the ending set in stone now and then when it comes to romance with the main character. Sure, letting the viewers think up what happens after a series has an ambigious ending is fine, but come on... Anyway, to the point; I just wish the guy could actually get the girl for once (fully) when it comes to a series as good as this one.

[darkdarkdark]

Originally Posted by sirculbs

Honestly, im tired of every anime out there feeling the need to end semi-tragically. Sure, tragedy does encure a lot more emotion than a romantic happy ending like what we would have had if nia lived, but honestly after watching series after series ive come to believe that everyone is using this "the main character gets the girl but doesnt really get the girl" plot. It ticks me off. I believe that viewers would be more satisfied if they made the ending set in stone now and then when it comes to romance with the main character. Sure, letting the viewers think up what happens after a series has an ambigious ending is fine, but come on... Anyway, to the point; I just wish the guy could actually get the girl for once (fully) when it comes to a series as good as this one.

Don't worry. Everyone else was mad too.

[Anon4life]

TL;dr warning!!!


I just finished watching TTGL, and for the first 26.5 episodes, I was ready to proclaim it as the best anime ever. At the 20 min mark of this episode, I was very motivated, but at they end I felt rather shattered. During Hotel Rwanda, Turtles can Fly, (IRL based fictional movies), and all the supposedly sad films the 2000's had to offer, I sad completely poker faced through. But seeing the weeding scene in TTGL, and hearing Love Conservation made me muster all me strength to not break down.

I love the fact that you people feel as passionate about the ending as I do. I've read through pretty much this entire thread over the past few days, and I can understand everyone opinions. Now I don't consider myself an expert at literature and the like, but I'm almost certain that Nia's death was a diablo ex machina.

Ignoring philosophical arguments and the theme of the show, the fact remains that Simon said he would return her back to normal, not that he would save her. And last time I checked being a normal human doesn't imply that you die when the alien race does. It would make more sense, if she was one of the bodies in the AS world, but she wasn't. She simply had been implanted with AS genes that were to trigger her transformation into an AS life form. If anything, destroying the AS should have helped to cure her of AS genes, as if you kill a puppet master, the puppet doesn't disappear, it stops being a puppet.

That said, her death was clearly a diablo ex machina, or in other words, a means to an end, with that end being a downer or bitter sweet ending to the series. This is strengthened by the fact that its Gainax's M.O. but seeing as the show probably became more well known than the company, I feel like they should have created a directors cut alternate ending. I've read both of Gainax's manga alt universes, and I've got to say, while of course not nearly as epic as the original, their endings were a lot more satisfying, what with the never ending simon x nia adventure.

So in the end, I love Gurren Lagann, I love Nia, and I hate Gainax.

TL; dr


prove me wrong. (jk)

P.S. after a few days of letting it sit, I don't feel that sad about her death and the ending, but rather betrayed by the way Gainax, ended it. I feel in my heart that she shouldn't have literally disappeared, and he shouldn't have figuratively disappeared. And in this way, that wouldn't of happened in the GL universe, or at least she would've been back with simon like J.C. and the apostles. (aka their still alive and well in my mind) I'm just now sad that I'll never see anymore of their adventures. Nia's irony is totally unique, whenever has a happy go lucky character turned out to be anti-social personality? I haven't really seen a character go from chirst figure to satan figure, to double christ figure?

[Anon4life]

Oh and btw I give the ep. 10/10, by grading it on the Gainax curve (aka death of lead female withstand)

I give the meta-series over 9000/10, because its the only series ever to motivate me, and make me care about a romantic relationship in said series.

[Leighton]

@Anon4life - Welcome i just joined too! About Nia's character - yea Gainax has that tendency to create unusual characters - Asuka in NGE for example is on the outside, portrayed as a straightforward and audacious character - but in truth, she's insecure and lonely. I guess Gainax wanted to use Nia as a medium between life and death (of spiral life forms) - which i think was an interesting idea - actually a good idea rather than have a villain do all the baddy work.

Like someone said before, i believe Nia is taken from the completion of the plot so that we watchers have to deal with another depressing loss (and massive lulz for Gainax people). I can't quite come to terms with the fact that Simon and all his prodigious "spiral power" which is fuelled by his determination to do whatever he needs, cannot bring back Nia.

I think an ending WITH Nia would have been perfectly fine - some people may have found it cheesy/cliche ending, but consider all that battle, trauma and determination that Simon and the cast went through to save her and humanity. IN ADDITION, remember that it was Nia and Simon's LOVE which reigned over "absolute fear" and terror, so i think its perfectly normal to want Nia to remain after the ending.

Plus shes super-cute anyways so we'll always have that lingering feeling of loss of someone highly important.

I guess its also part of Gainax's attempt to take the plot in a different direction or finish off ambiguously/deppressingly (like NGE). I didn't foresee's Kamina's death as well - it just didn't seem suitable until i finished watching the series. Even then, i at times wished that Kamina was still there in the epic battles (i guess he was there resembled in Simon's unbeatable battle-spirit).

Anyways i've just finished the series and will probably look over the episodes again for more fanwanking and putting my opinion here

I'm still yet to watch the movies for new content...

Originally Posted by Anon4life

Oh and btw I give the ep. 10/10, by grading it on the Gainax curve (aka death of lead female withstand)

I give the meta-series over 9000/10, because its the only series ever to motivate me, and make me care about a romantic relationship in said series.

I'm still hovering over the rating - i'm still a little depressed over Nia's death haha.

TTGL will be one of my top anime series on a plot/mecha action level. NGE is still the top at the moment (mecha/psychological level) but im open because of its massive ambiguity. But yea i've only actually watched these two animes and i have to let TTGL set in a bit more, so ill save the fanwanking for later