Infinite Stratos - Technology Discussion (IS Cores, Frames, Weapons, etc)

[kaisis]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

so okay... theres a shotgun... in terms of combat, a shotgun is very effective at warding off CQB combatants...

so far, only the revive custom II is the only IS power armor thats using conventional weaponry since cecilia's rocket pack doesnt count due to her power armor's dragoon bit gun platform and the energy sniper rifle. you can say that its adaptive in most cases since you can change your loadout to fit with the combat situations (well at times, even CQB is rendered useless)

im wondering why the brits didnt put a railgun on cecilia instead of that energy rifle of hers. if my lulz is correct, a rail gun based sniper rifle deals more damage than a particle laser beam but really requires shitloads of power and specialized ammo to boot (i will lol if a .50BMG or a bullet equivalent to an AT rifle round will be used).

and thank god thars no weapon jammers, disruptors, or EMP devices that will send the power armors nulled.

LULZ MODE OFF...

Cecilia's IS is mainly for testing energy weapons. She realizes that her IS is very incompatible in fighting against Byakku Shiki, and once requested to her country for different types of armaments, but the gov't denied her request.

[Blue-Ultimate]

Off all weapons here, everything in the 3gen series of IS is based on energy weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_weapon

Then how so have I not seen Plasma based weaponry, because this in itself can be a very good.


And since the IS core is capable of providing power to the weapons of the frame, and also that in the IS universe they are capable of creating a energy sword that ichika uses,=.
Because it seems to have a flat service and is also a double-edged blade, unlike standerd beam saber from gundam. It requires many forms of magnetic if maybe even gravitational barriers to hold it in place.

So I wouldn't be surprised if they could create some sort of teleportation shift, which basicly just engulfs the IS in a energy field and warps them in on the opponent, like the Jehuty from Zone of the Enders for example.

[PzIVf3]

The only thing doubt me how do they breath normally through high speed battles without getting unconsciousness.

[Dragonkid11]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

The only thing doubt me how do they breath normally through high speed battles without getting unconsciousness.

IS is originally designed for space exploration...but it make me wonder as well...

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Angrypokstick

So i read vol3. In it was a explanation of the "white knight incident" that revealed the IS to the world. And shows why it was considered unstoppable.

Spoiler for light novel vol3:

Brief summary of the White Knight Incident.

When the IS was first proposed it was scoffed at and few people paid it any attention. Then an "Mysterious" hacker hacked the military missile bases and ships all over the world launching 2341 ballistic and cruise misses towards all major cities in Japan. The worlds first and only IS sortied and neutralized 1221 of the missiles with a sword and the rest were shot down with energy weapons -something no country in the world had the technology of producing. This IS was later code named "white knight". It's faceless pilot claimed no allegiance to any worldly nations and was attacked by several major world powers seeking to capture or destroy it.The white knight fended off its attackers destroying 207 next gen fighter aircrafts, disabling 7 aircraft carriers and its naval escorts, in addition 8 weaponized military spy satellites was also destroyed.The IS showed that it was capable of generating a neigh invulnerable shield barrier, 100% optical camouflage, hyper-sonic speeds and pulling off insane high G maneuvers seemingly unaffected by gravity induced blackout/redouts and also space flight.
The "white knight" IS was never seen again after the incident and its pilot's identity remain a secret to the general public.

One wonders if the White Knight is the same unmanned unit engaged by Ichika and co during the cold open of episode one.

Regards space exploration, presumably the IS would equip something like the NASA Space Activity Suit, which is essentially a thicker version of the latex space suit. Afterall, since the IS gear appears to be data made tangible, and since IS can pull weapons out of hammerspace, it isn;t too far a stretch that a space config could exist and be enabled.

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

The only thing doubt me how do they breath normally through high speed battles without getting unconsciousness.

Rule of Cool. Either that, or the IS shield functions similar to Tuatha de Danaan's EMFC - the shield allows the IS to cut through the air at high speed on the "outside", while "inside" the shield bubble airflow is maintained at a constant rate for the pilot (in the case of Tuatha de Danaan, the EMFC artificially manipulates the seaflow around the submarine so as to remove cavitation effects when TDD-1 is underway - it can be moving at 60 knots, but EMFC will adjust somehow so that outside the bubble where EMFC is active, the sea currents remain constant).

[Haak]

So does the Light Novel provide more information on how these shields work? I'm still scratching my head at how Laura managed to choke Cecilia and Rin when they're supposed to be protected by shields.

[Belgaesh]

See these two posts from Zephyr325 for more info about IS mechanics.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=132
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=138

[ZeKeR]

im waiting for the ff weapons to come...

OFFENSE
power fist/gauntlet
AT autocannon
hand grenade (chal, make it happen)
high yield rockets

SUPPORT
smoke screen
EMP (seeing as they're power armor, a well placed EMP blast SHOULD disable them)
distortion camouflage field (this is of great use to range based IS)

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

im waiting for the ff weapons to come...

OFFENSE
power fist/gauntlet
AT autocannon
hand grenade (chal, make it happen)
high yield rockets

M61 VULCAN

Chest claymores to go with the Revolving Stake.

Yes the Rafale must have grenades...

Oh wait, we're turning Charl into Soap McTavish?!

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

M61 VULCAN

Chest claymores to go with the Revolving Stake.

Yes the Rafale must have grenades...

Oh wait, we're turning Charl into Soap McTavish?!

well the Rafale IS a commando type to change weapons.

and for some reason, Chal's sniper weapon kinda looks like a FAMAS F1 scoped.

[Wild Goose]

Charles is also carrying an IS-scaled P90 at one point.

[BlackSaba]

Really wanted some insight on the IS cores, so I ran around the world. TWICE

Spoiler for Black Box Theory:

What I dont think I have seen, or unfortunately read through my skimming is any info on a black box. Now Ive done some reading and I think this would be useful to know if you want to throw some ideas down.

A Black box, in science and engineering, is a device (Almost any device, peripheral, system) which can be viewed solely in its terms of input, output, and transfer characteristics, without any knowledge of its internal workings, that is, its implementation is "opaque" (black). Almost anything might be referred to as a black box: a transistor, an algorithm, or the human mind.

Now check this out.

If you take a black box, literally, a black box, And add water and soap, without knowing of the reactions that will take place. you have the first characteristics of a black box. Input. The transfer characteristics come next.

Now in that black box, you take a tube, vinyl if you will, and cut a hole that will allow the contents to pour out without any wasted effort, you have the second characteristic. Transfer.

Now the final is the outcome of the first two meaning I+T=O. Now that can vary from a MAGNITUDE of things from creation of energy, to making choices in your mind. That being said, the black box is an opaque device which contains an unknown matter, that is used to power the device, and also used to maintain is own structuralism (given the fact that the IS Cores have not been mass produced, this can seem likely that the creation and overall handling of them is of the up-most importance to maintain the HIGHEST safety precautions).

Now for what its worth, we can say that the IS Cores are as opaque as the image we have been given as to what they may actually look like. And with that, we have a little bit of physics involved, and possibly some electronic engineering, for the sake of what its worth to power them.

In physics, a black box is described as "a system whose internal structure is unknown, or need not be considered for a particular purpose. In electronics it is a sealed piece of replaceable equipment, which totally defers from the idea for physics. How can you replace something that is not known?

Now. Lets take a look at the human mind (If you bothered to read the first part, Ill give you a condenser)

A Black box is an opaque, system, object, or device that you don't know whats happening on the inside, and the ONLY thing you know is what goes in it, and what happens outside of it. So whatever happens inside, you couldn't possibly imagine. The mind is one of those, IN THEORY. Now lets say that one of the Black Box "Minds" where placed in the IS cores. It doesn't need to go without saying that the mind is capable of near unimaginable things, things that we ourselves can't explain. Now lets put to the test that the ORIGINAL IS cores where configured to be one with your mind? True that is the case, as it requires voice activation, pilot wavelength sync or whatever it is, but that in my opinion is just to vague. What if the IS core was directly designed to be controlled by you mind? Meaning the Input of the IS cores "Black Box" would be your thoughts. The output is the reaction you get from the IS corresponding with your thoughts. Now as for the Transfer characteristics? Its like talking to another human being telepathically. As for its inner workings? Who knows. And maybe that the secret to IS cores. The Inner workings is something along the lines of mind linking. Almost, but not surely, if you can link your mind with an IS core (Which it clearly does) Why would you have the need to pilot it? If it can link with your mind, couldn't you give it one of its own? A.I. Or maybe it already has one?

....

Spoiler for O.o:

Ill just leave this here =D

Spoiler for Black Box in Philosophy:

In philosophy and science black box theories have been proposed for various fields by various philosophers and scientists.

Such a prominent theory is the so called "black box theory of consciousness", which states that the mind is fully understood once the inputs and outputs are well defined, and generally couples this with a radical skepticism regarding the possibility of ever successfully describing the underlying structure, mechanism, and dynamics of the mind.

Example:

If we had a black box that we could not open, could not just "look inside" to see how it worked, all we could do is guess how it worked based on what happens when we do something to it (an input) and what occurs as a result of that (an output). If we put an orange in on one side, and an orange falls out the other. We can make educated guesses on what is happening inside the black box. It could be filled with oranges, it could have a conveyor belt to move the orange from one side to the other, it could even go through an alternate universe for all we know. All we can do is guess.

Every now and again something strange will occur that changes our understanding of the black box. Like if we put an orange in and a guava popped out. Suddenly our "filled with oranges" and "conveyor belt" theories no longer work and we have to change our "educated guess" as to how the black box works.

The black box theory is a fairly popular method to describe what psychology is like. We cannot open the mind and simply "peek" inside, we can only do something to the mind (show it something scary) and from the results guess what goes on inside.

[Dragonkid11]

The weapon in anime seem to up scaled or the author has no sense of size at all...
0.80 cal is NOT 50mm(Laura railgun)
0.70 cal is NOT 100mm(One of Charlotte assault rifle...or ASSAULT AUTOCANNON)

[BlackSaba]

Originally Posted by Dragonkid11

The weapon in anime seem to up scaled or the author has no sense of size at all...
0.80 cal is NOT 50mm(Laura railgun)
0.70 cal is NOT 100mm(One of Charlotte assault rifle...or ASSAULT AUTOCANNON)

I lold at this =D

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by BlackSaba

Really wanted some insight on the IS cores, so I ran around the world. TWICE

Spoiler for Black Box Theory:

What I dont think I have seen, or unfortunately read through my skimming is any info on a black box. Now Ive done some reading and I think this would be useful to know if you want to throw some ideas down.

A Black box, in science and engineering, is a device (Almost any device, peripheral, system) which can be viewed solely in its terms of input, output, and transfer characteristics, without any knowledge of its internal workings, that is, its implementation is "opaque" (black). Almost anything might be referred to as a black box: a transistor, an algorithm, or the human mind.

Now check this out.

If you take a black box, literally, a black box, And add water and soap, without knowing of the reactions that will take place. you have the first characteristics of a black box. Input. The transfer characteristics come next.

Now in that black box, you take a tube, vinyl if you will, and cut a hole that will allow the contents to pour out without any wasted effort, you have the second characteristic. Transfer.

Now the final is the outcome of the first two meaning I+T=O. Now that can vary from a MAGNITUDE of things from creation of energy, to making choices in your mind. That being said, the black box is an opaque device which contains an unknown matter, that is used to power the device, and also used to maintain is own structuralism (given the fact that the IS Cores have not been mass produced, this can seem likely that the creation and overall handling of them is of the up-most importance to maintain the HIGHEST safety precautions).

Now for what its worth, we can say that the IS Cores are as opaque as the image we have been given as to what they may actually look like. And with that, we have a little bit of physics involved, and possibly some electronic engineering, for the sake of what its worth to power them.

In physics, a black box is described as "a system whose internal structure is unknown, or need not be considered for a particular purpose. In electronics it is a sealed piece of replaceable equipment, which totally defers from the idea for physics. How can you replace something that is not known?

Now. Lets take a look at the human mind (If you bothered to read the first part, Ill give you a condenser)

A Black box is an opaque, system, object, or device that you don't know whats happening on the inside, and the ONLY thing you know is what goes in it, and what happens outside of it. So whatever happens inside, you couldn't possibly imagine. The mind is one of those, IN THEORY. Now lets say that one of the Black Box "Minds" where placed in the IS cores. It doesn't need to go without saying that the mind is capable of near unimaginable things, things that we ourselves can't explain. Now lets put to the test that the ORIGINAL IS cores where configured to be one with your mind? True that is the case, as it requires voice activation, pilot wavelength sync or whatever it is, but that in my opinion is just to vague. What if the IS core was directly designed to be controlled by you mind? Meaning the Input of the IS cores "Black Box" would be your thoughts. The output is the reaction you get from the IS corresponding with your thoughts. Now as for the Transfer characteristics? Its like talking to another human being telepathically. As for its inner workings? Who knows. And maybe that the secret to IS cores. The Inner workings is something along the lines of mind linking. Almost, but not surely, if you can link your mind with an IS core (Which it clearly does) Why would you have the need to pilot it? If it can link with your mind, couldn't you give it one of its own? A.I. Or maybe it already has one?

....

Spoiler for O.o:

Ill just leave this here =D

Spoiler for Black Box in Philosophy:

In philosophy and science black box theories have been proposed for various fields by various philosophers and scientists.

Such a prominent theory is the so called "black box theory of consciousness", which states that the mind is fully understood once the inputs and outputs are well defined, and generally couples this with a radical skepticism regarding the possibility of ever successfully describing the underlying structure, mechanism, and dynamics of the mind.

Example:

If we had a black box that we could not open, could not just "look inside" to see how it worked, all we could do is guess how it worked based on what happens when we do something to it (an input) and what occurs as a result of that (an output). If we put an orange in on one side, and an orange falls out the other. We can make educated guesses on what is happening inside the black box. It could be filled with oranges, it could have a conveyor belt to move the orange from one side to the other, it could even go through an alternate universe for all we know. All we can do is guess.

Every now and again something strange will occur that changes our understanding of the black box. Like if we put an orange in and a guava popped out. Suddenly our "filled with oranges" and "conveyor belt" theories no longer work and we have to change our "educated guess" as to how the black box works.

The black box theory is a fairly popular method to describe what psychology is like. We cannot open the mind and simply "peek" inside, we can only do something to the mind (show it something scary) and from the results guess what goes on inside.

repost it again... this IS how tech works in here after all...

so you mean to say... schrodinger's cat variant takes into play much?
trololo...

as for Laura's gear, she's pretty much the long range bombardier for this matter. i mean her main cannon is calibrated to probably be AA and AT.
and lets go back to the German weaponry because i think that her big gun's concept came from the Flak 8.8 (ehem, Flak 88mm for ya)

its original purpose was for AA, but teh users soon found out... its damn effective for AG as well...

well the autocannon having that big of a bore is fine... unless you consider .50BMG fed MG's to be autocannons then i will lol so hard.

well the Rafale's autocannon is probably like the Bradley IFV's chaingun or the Apache Longbow's vulcan.

[BlackSaba]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

repost it again... this IS how tech works in here after all...

...Not getting what you mean? o.0 Maybe Im just dense lol

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by BlackSaba

...Not getting what you mean? o.0 Maybe Im just dense lol

well give us the whole ball of yarn regarding the black box core... theres probably something we can use there.

[BlackSaba]

Its gonna take some time cause Im still researching it. Not only is it relevant to my theory, but its relevant to my interest. Gimme a few hours and Ill hit it back

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by BlackSaba

Really wanted some insight on the IS cores, so I ran around the world. TWICE

Spoiler for Black Box Theory:

What I dont think I have seen, or unfortunately read through my skimming is any info on a black box. Now Ive done some reading and I think this would be useful to know if you want to throw some ideas down.

A Black box, in science and engineering, is a device (Almost any device, peripheral, system) which can be viewed solely in its terms of input, output, and transfer characteristics, without any knowledge of its internal workings, that is, its implementation is "opaque" (black). Almost anything might be referred to as a black box: a transistor, an algorithm, or the human mind.

Now check this out.

If you take a black box, literally, a black box, And add water and soap, without knowing of the reactions that will take place. you have the first characteristics of a black box. Input. The transfer characteristics come next.

Now in that black box, you take a tube, vinyl if you will, and cut a hole that will allow the contents to pour out without any wasted effort, you have the second characteristic. Transfer.

Now the final is the outcome of the first two meaning I+T=O. Now that can vary from a MAGNITUDE of things from creation of energy, to making choices in your mind. That being said, the black box is an opaque device which contains an unknown matter, that is used to power the device, and also used to maintain is own structuralism (given the fact that the IS Cores have not been mass produced, this can seem likely that the creation and overall handling of them is of the up-most importance to maintain the HIGHEST safety precautions).

Now for what its worth, we can say that the IS Cores are as opaque as the image we have been given as to what they may actually look like. And with that, we have a little bit of physics involved, and possibly some electronic engineering, for the sake of what its worth to power them.

In physics, a black box is described as "a system whose internal structure is unknown, or need not be considered for a particular purpose. In electronics it is a sealed piece of replaceable equipment, which totally defers from the idea for physics. How can you replace something that is not known?

Now. Lets take a look at the human mind (If you bothered to read the first part, Ill give you a condenser)

A Black box is an opaque, system, object, or device that you don't know whats happening on the inside, and the ONLY thing you know is what goes in it, and what happens outside of it. So whatever happens inside, you couldn't possibly imagine. The mind is one of those, IN THEORY. Now lets say that one of the Black Box "Minds" where placed in the IS cores. It doesn't need to go without saying that the mind is capable of near unimaginable things, things that we ourselves can't explain. Now lets put to the test that the ORIGINAL IS cores where configured to be one with your mind? True that is the case, as it requires voice activation, pilot wavelength sync or whatever it is, but that in my opinion is just to vague. What if the IS core was directly designed to be controlled by you mind? Meaning the Input of the IS cores "Black Box" would be your thoughts. The output is the reaction you get from the IS corresponding with your thoughts. Now as for the Transfer characteristics? Its like talking to another human being telepathically. As for its inner workings? Who knows. And maybe that the secret to IS cores. The Inner workings is something along the lines of mind linking. Almost, but not surely, if you can link your mind with an IS core (Which it clearly does) Why would you have the need to pilot it? If it can link with your mind, couldn't you give it one of its own? A.I. Or maybe it already has one?

....

Spoiler for O.o:

Ill just leave this here =D

Spoiler for Black Box in Philosophy:

In philosophy and science black box theories have been proposed for various fields by various philosophers and scientists.

Such a prominent theory is the so called "black box theory of consciousness", which states that the mind is fully understood once the inputs and outputs are well defined, and generally couples this with a radical skepticism regarding the possibility of ever successfully describing the underlying structure, mechanism, and dynamics of the mind.

Example:

If we had a black box that we could not open, could not just "look inside" to see how it worked, all we could do is guess how it worked based on what happens when we do something to it (an input) and what occurs as a result of that (an output). If we put an orange in on one side, and an orange falls out the other. We can make educated guesses on what is happening inside the black box. It could be filled with oranges, it could have a conveyor belt to move the orange from one side to the other, it could even go through an alternate universe for all we know. All we can do is guess.

Every now and again something strange will occur that changes our understanding of the black box. Like if we put an orange in and a guava popped out. Suddenly our "filled with oranges" and "conveyor belt" theories no longer work and we have to change our "educated guess" as to how the black box works.

The black box theory is a fairly popular method to describe what psychology is like. We cannot open the mind and simply "peek" inside, we can only do something to the mind (show it something scary) and from the results guess what goes on inside.

This theory getting compared to the Shroedinger experiment makes me smile. I used to call the IS internal materialization field Personal Reality, a small shoutout to a certain anime about mages and espers. Never really went far with it, and it sort of dropped off one end in terms of significance.

However, the presence of an AI in Byakushiki (and the advanced intelligence and autonomic processes of the other units) taken together with the 'fitting process' makes one wonder if the AI too evolves during the process of Upshifting. You then realize that IS core are never allowed to evolve in mass production models, and personal IS which do evolve are reset to factory settings every time they change hands. I found that rather silly. If the IS core evolved, it would be stronger, and it would allow mass production models to match personals better.

I'm probably thinking of Evangelion here, but maybe, if the IS core evolved and stayed evolved, it may become advanced enough to reject human control. Hence this "prevent or reset".

Or you could put it in another way, that because of this procedures put in place to minimize pilot rejection, IS cores can't evolve enough to become independent lifeforms. Once someone does, it would be a very exciting outcome to observe. (I'm exploring that in my fic)

So why doesn't IS reject/dominate their human hosts? Maybe its a symbiosis rather than a one-way relationship; we need their shields and power, they need our imagination and willpower to function. In a sense, our "willpower" serves as the energy that runs IS cores, and the more florid and more abundant there is, the better the IS thrives, and the more mileage we get out of the IS core. This explains how simply "having someone to protect", "having a strong desire", "suicide charges" all can push the IS above and beyond its normal statistics. With limits of course, as Rafale demonstrated by having to recharge the Byakushiki using core energy stored in its condensers after bypassing its own core.

And because we have no means of measuring willpower quantitatively, that would also contribute to the uncrackable black box.

[Shiikamayo]

I was wondering, is there any official information detailing what Shift each character's IS first appears in? I originally assumed that outside of Ichika, all the characters (sans instructors) started off by default on the 1st Shift, but never really found any information to support this, especially in the case of Charlotte and Laura.

Charlotte's personal IS seems to be completely explainable by mechanical modification at preset to a normal Raphael Revive (eg. Armor plate sacrificed for speed, preset equipment sacrificed for Equalizer slots, etc) so it's uncertain if she's even gone through the 1st shift (Skill and shift are not necessary an issue of causation as displayed by Miya). Laura also seems like she might be experienced enough to have hit the 2nd Shift already unless there was a story related reason holding her back (From the looks of it, there probably is).

Also, how is it that Fold-Out armor is an improvement over Equalizers? It seems like equipment that transforms would be slower and less flexible than equipment that can be instantly called up by an experienced pilot. Equalizers also have the advantage of unpredictability, as the setup can be changed in between battles and more suitable to group battles as equipment and support services can be exchanged (Charlotte to Ichika in Episode 8). Also, Equalizers are theoretically replaceable if damaged in mid combat (ie. weapons, physical shields, thrusters, etc) whereas I'm assuming Fold-Out armor being a permanent piece of an IS is not and is vulnerable to getting stuck in transformation if damaged a certain way. Basically, outside of having a slot limit, has a specific limitation been set to Equalizers that makes Fold-Out armor superior (ie. Equalizers can't use 3rd Gen tech)?