2007-06-22, 16:23 | Link #301 | ||||
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Now, aside from over dozens of millions of people vanishing in an instant, there would be still aftermath that could kill off another dozen millions more, if not in hundred millions. Not to mention populations of countless species on the planet, some of them being completely wiped out. Now, Arc-en-Ciel may not be a planet destroyer weapon, but it certainly would qualify as a civilization-destroying weapon, wouldn't it? EDIT: I may be wrong with my calculations, but since math isn't my forte, I mostly used google and wiki. ^^;; |
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2007-06-22, 16:32 | Link #302 | |
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
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about the Arc-en-ciel ~ imo it is like an "eraser" cannon in that once it hits it completely erases the existance of anything in the area enclosed by the beam...and if you are to take that area damage even though it may not seem much when compared to the landmass of a planet ~ the planet itself isnt really that deep...if it completely hits spot on a weak tectonic plate you can expect the world to blow up with natural disasters ~ as the "balance of nature" is destroyed something has to happen to try and equalize what has been done...and this is where water rushing in to fill the rather large pot hole comes in ~ in the form of huge tsunamis...
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2007-06-22, 16:32 | Link #303 |
Field Medic
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Certainly. So, despite the lukewarm response, why was it considered a viable response?
The Arc En Ciel, even if it's a civilisation threatening event, is small change compared to the Book of Darkness, which ex[pands infinitely and is therefore fully capable destroying entire Universes (as we use the term)...and then causing it's own dimensional dislocation to shift to new Universes ( possibly destroying a few more in the process) to start it again...and that's without considering the unlimited reincarnation thing... Thus, it's a choice...kill off six billion (roughly) innocents on Earth to save a potentially infinite number of potentially infinite numbers of other innocents in other dimensions... |
2007-06-22, 17:23 | Link #304 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Right - this is why Adm. Graham was dumb. ;p
Of course, a lot of that was probably to assuage his own conscience - he basically picked out a little girl to die (well, frozen sleep for eternity, whatever). Doing that and then making her live in the butt-end of nowhere as well? Might have gotten him caught, too... Not much point in speculating how much actual destructive power it represents - we've only seen it fired twice, both at targets in space, which were wiped out each time. No telling how big the "splash damage" would really be. Of course, if it really is "leaves a hole in the planet the size of a small moon", then having one of the knights say "that would be bad for Hayate's house!" would be extraordinarily stupid, no? So maybe it's not -that- bad. |
2007-06-22, 18:08 | Link #305 | |
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Cheers.
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2007-06-22, 19:16 | Link #306 |
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Ah, my bad. I'm actually rewatching A's now, but not to that ep yet. ;p
Still dumb of him - he obviously knew it was there the whole time, he's the one paying the bills... "Hey, why don't you move out here, away from the big city?" would not have been beyond the pale. You can't even say "he just doesn't care about the lives of the indigenous people", he's from -Britain-. (And just too young to have picked up a bunch of WW2 anti-Japanese sentiment, too...) |
2007-06-22, 20:33 | Link #307 | |
~ I Do ~
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Of course he never planned that he'd need the Arc's firepower back then. It might be even safe to say that the Arc might not have been invented back then, and the most powerful battleship gun at that time wasn't a planet cracker.
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2007-06-22, 21:36 | Link #309 |
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Either way, it wasn't in his plan to use Arc-en-Ciel, after all he has painful memories of it.
EDIT: And not to mention it doesn't seem to work when used outright
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Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2007-06-22 at 22:05. |
2007-06-22, 22:01 | Link #310 | |
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It's like fighting with your fists when your opponents are using tanks or fighters, and the conditions are in their favour. |
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2007-06-22, 22:11 | Link #311 |
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Speaking of Durandal, the way Graham had intended to execute his plan to take care of Book of Darkness seemed rather dubious to me. Why wait until the point when BoD is about to go berserk before freezing the tome and its master? Graham already knew about Hayate and the tome WAY before the tome awakened. Both were already in close confines of the room; he could've just had them frozen easily without any hassle. Why go through the sadstic plan of having Hayate suffer while deliberately goading the guardians into hunting linker cores, knowing that BoD would go berserk not long after it awakens?
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2007-06-23, 00:12 | Link #313 | |
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So I would figure he's been spending all those time trying to figure out alternative salutions to the problem. PLUS, it would take time to create Durandal.
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2007-06-23, 00:26 | Link #314 |
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I distinctly recall the Masked Men (just before they were de-masked by Chrono) mentioning that they were hoping that Nanoha and Fate would last long enough until Book of Darkness starts going out of control, at the very least.
That leads me to believe that that was the specific timing they were looking for in order for their operation to be successful. That's what makes no sense to me; why gamble everything by waiting until the very moment BoD goes berserk to put their plan into action? SO many things can go wrong... |
2007-06-23, 00:48 | Link #315 |
~Night of Gales~
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Don't hold me on it, since I am unable to rewatch A's, but I recall that a major requirement for it to succeed without it respawning itself was for Hayate to be in complete, actual administrative control of the Tome...and since it was mildly corrupted to begin with, it means the timing where it goes berserk. I think the idea was to seal it at the moment where having passed complete administration to the Meister, both of them are to be flashfrozen at the instant of awakening, before she could think or even command anything, and then later seal her in a prison dimension to prevent someone from melting the ice.
Basically, the idea is to complete it, but at the same time, to permanently put it in a situation where neither the Book or the Meister can do anything about it without destroying it, and effectively cancelling it's Auto-Revive haxx that has caused TSAB problems over the decades. Of course, the long-term viability of it may be questionable, since Chrono did say that it might find its way out...probably, but if you consider what the "generic" method is, it actually held some weight. Technically killing one girl to save many more in the coming years. Let's face it...had the Meister of the Tome be the same old power-hungry jackasses the Wolkenritter had served over and over for god knows how long... there would've been more deaths involved, and the happy ending of A's is quite improbable. True, many things can go wrong...like Chrono finding out, but when even if Graham's plans fail, there's still Arc to use. It just means that 11 years later, they'll have to face another incident. Same ol' same ol'.
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2007-06-23, 04:56 | Link #316 |
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Look people, it would be to your benefit to actually WATCH the episodes where the explanations and reasons are divulged for Graham's course of action. Making asinine assumptions are not to your benefit when discussing the matter. It kills your credibility a fair bit.
1) Freezing Hayate before she merged with the Tome would be pointless because without the unison between Tome and Master, the Tome will be free to hop on to the next master. Cue massive headache because they need to search for the next spawnpoint AGAIN. 2) This is the reason why they needed the program to go "berserk", because that is when the total unison occurs. Trapped by its bond with Hayate, freezing Hayate with Durandal would have sealed the Tome as well. 3) Graham paid for Hayate's expenses because he felt guilty for what he was about to do to her. 4) The Arc-en-Ciel was not what Graham wanted to do, because it would have solved NOTHING. 5) Hayate seizing control of the administrative program and separating the Defence Program from the main program was what made the Arc-en-Ciel viable. This was not something that Graham could have anticipated. ~~~~ ~~~~ Those are some of the main points. You can find out more by watching the relevant episodes. Cheers.
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2007-06-23, 06:55 | Link #318 | |
~Night of Gales~
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Jokes aside... while I am unable to rewatch the episode where the explaination were explained to due "unavoidable reasons" (( such as where I am atm )), it's fairly nice to see that my credibility...or whatever's left of it wasn't that badly killed. One needs to understand that the "conventional" method that had been used to deal with the Tome in the past, and even in the A's timeline, before Graham's intervention, and Hayate's readministration...never solves anything. It was the "right" thing to do, but it never solves it, just delays. Hayate would've lived on had the Tome be destroyed before completion, but the Wolkies would dissapear only to reappear again, someday. And probably in the hands of an evil bastard...as usual. And while the Hayate's incident involves very little casualty that "matters", one have to note that Hayate is probably the only Meister that was good. From the way the Wolkies spoke, it's clear 99% of their lives involved killings and book-completions. And it wasn't just something that Graham couldn't anticipate. It was something no one could've anticipated, just by looking at previous records of such incidents. If this was the case of when Clyde died, or even before... we would've rooted for Graham, no doubt. It was just a painful twist of fate that it had to be Hayate of all Meisters.
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2007-06-23, 08:02 | Link #319 | |||
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But I get it now; the frozen Hayate was basically going to be the anchor to keep the tome from escaping and finding a new master. Quote:
Of course, that was before you pointed out about the total unision, which it now makes sense to me. Quote:
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2007-06-23, 08:52 | Link #320 | |
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Since Arc-en-Ciel doesn't solve the problem Permanently.
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