2006-11-07, 04:57 | Link #101 |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Thats right. To this day, no one really knows how strong Gai is, or Tsunade, or Kakashi, and konoha in general. We just have sort of general ideas. But then we can say the same of Akatsuki. Have we seen Hidan fight to his fullest? Probably not. There have been references to Kisame's ultimate jutsu and Oro is always pulling out something new. Still a final battle may not be an end all. After all Asuma died pretty pathetically and left most of us wondering how it was possible he was ever really a jounin. He never really got a chance to show his skills. Well hopefully that won't happen again.
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2006-11-07, 08:17 | Link #102 | |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: sasuke's lap
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2006-11-07, 17:11 | Link #104 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
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kthx. Quote:
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No. That seems contradictory with your last statement. Here I'll copy paste it: Either way, I agree with you, Without MS, Itachi can’t match any f the Sannin. Yet, Itachi was stronger than Oro at the age of 11, two years before he obtained MS. Mystery? Nope. Itachi became ANBU squad leader at the age of 13. He left the village when Sasuke was 7. 5 years prior to the start of Naruto, when Itachi was 18. 18 - 5 = 13. He was 13 when he obtained MS. So, he became stronger than Oro at the age of 13. |
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2006-11-07, 17:35 | Link #105 | ||
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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It seems contradictory when you don’t read the Manga, Itachi gained the MS at 11 Years old, And Akatsuki already said that Oro left Them 7 years Prior to timeskip, at that moment Itahci was around 18 Years old, meaning that Oro left Akatsuki when Itachi was 11 years old. Spoiler:
And how do we know He killed Shisui at age 11? Because it was stated That Shiisui was Killed the same Night the Uchiha Meeting took place, this Uchiha Meeting was the same day that Sasuke received his First semester scorecard of the Academy. I'll write down the timeline if it is of any help - Achieved Sharingan (8) - Became Chuunin (10) - Became ANBU (10.5) - Sasuke entered Academy (5 - 6) - Killled Shisui (11) -Sasuke Got his first semester grades (5-6) - Became ANBU captain (13 ) -Sasuke Learned Katon (7-8) - Killed clan (13) and because I know you are going to Talk about Sasukes age, let me requote Hunter on this: Quote:
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Last edited by Rurik; 2006-11-07 at 18:24. |
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2006-11-08, 00:45 | Link #107 |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Kisame said the copy ninja was holding his own against Itachi. Itachi himself didn't seemed surprised by Kakashi's skills. When i read that fight, seemed like while Itachi had all the hidden tricks working for him, Kakashi was able to respond well and was even able to protect kurenai who was a real liability. Aside from the tsukuyomi genjutsu, even at that early point in the manga, I'd say there were on relatively even footing, and if Itachi were to win, it certainly wouldn't be easy. After all in that fight you have to understand Itachi was the aggressor, so kakashi can only be judged on his defense. The same can be said with the Jiraiya/Itachi confrontation. We can only judge Itachi in his defense, and pulling out Amaterasu was pretty impressive. Of kakashi, i'd say being able to have the presense of mind to recognize the exploding bunshin and save kurenai was very impressive indeed. So even footing would be my verdict, perhaps with Itachi having the slight edge (I say this leaving out the various MS skills on both sides)
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2006-11-08, 14:10 | Link #110 |
<ˆ>(`;´)<ˆ>
Join Date: Sep 2004
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When it comes to Kage level it doesn't really matter who is the strongest or has the most power. I say this because when people are that strong, any jutsu that is used can kill. It becomes a matter of who makes the first mistake and who takes advantage of the mistake presented.
In regards to what people say. When someone says "this person is so strong that I was lucky to sway them away" they are merely stating respect for that person's skills. In Asian culture we "respect" (for a lack of better word) that someone is strong even if we don't like the person. Especially in Japan, since their culture is highly influence in Boshido and Samurai traditions. On topic: With or without Mangekyu, Itachi is at the level as the Kage's and Sannin's. I can confidently say this because Itachi mastered the Sharingan at an early age. He didn't become a genius because of his Sharingan. He simply used what he had to begin with and exploited it. I would have done the same, as what almost every character in Naruto has done, oh like Neji. The only difference is Itachi took it to a whole new level of insanity. If he didn't have Sharingan he would surely use his "Genius" on something else. None the less he would still be at the same level but it would just be with something else. And it's very unfair to say "he is only at Kakashi's level without Mangekyu" because it's not true. Let’s put it this way. Kakashi has a Sharingan as well as some members of Uchiha clan but they don’t even come close to reaching what Itachi has reached. And for people to say that Kakashi handled the first fight well. You are entitled to your own opinion. But what I saw was a calm, collective Itachi and a flustered Kakashi and Co. People seem to forget he came from the most feared clan and within that clan he was the apparent revered “Genius” If you want to do a fair comparison for Itachi without Mangekyu, make sure to take all of the years that the person you compare him to has learned. An example, if Itachi didn’t have the Mangekyu for 4 years he would have been learning something else with that time. So if lets say for example’s sake he has had Mangekyu for 4 years and you compare him to Kakashi, take 4 years of what ever Kakashi has learned including experience completely away from him and do the comparison. I assure you he is no where near Itachi. |
2006-11-08, 19:25 | Link #112 | |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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1)4 Tailed Naruto (Oro did say that chakra ball could have killed him. And he fled the scene. If naruto really wants to stay four tailed, I bet no one can really pull him out of it. I bet the 3 tailed naruto would be enough to seriously handle anyone below.) 2)Jiraiya/Gai (unlocked gates? plus knows how to fight against sharingan users? Jiraiya based on his reputation.) 3)Itachi/Oro/Kakashi (both sharingan users having unlocked their MS can fight each other and Oro equally well. Itachi vs Kakashi in the first fight was pretty even until the MS was pulled out by Itachi. I don't see Amaterasu burning through the chakra shield at the 4 tailed level and I don't see tsukuyomi having any real effect because its essentially the kyubi in control at the higher levels. If naruto's mind is basically crushed, it just gives the kyubi more freedom and you'd probably see more tails come out. 6 tails maybe 7!) 4)Everyone else (konohamaru at the bottom and maybe that girl who works at Icharuku Ramen) 5)Sasuke cause he's a traitor and doesn't deserve a real ranking! Last edited by Suna no tate; 2006-11-08 at 19:44. |
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2006-11-08, 19:59 | Link #113 | ||
Conspiracy Theorist
Join Date: Dec 2005
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- Tsunade nerve confusing taijutsu slap. That move (if connected) would had powned Jiraiya, The 4th, Itachi, you named it. However, Kabuto worked around it IN combat. - Rasengen. A move that would had easily killed Jiraiya etc if it connected yet it didn't faze Kabuto too much except he was already fighting for an extended time before that. Spoiler:
While Kishimoto isn't really giving Kabuto much love lately; he really shouldn't be underestimated. Quote:
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2006-11-08, 20:09 | Link #114 | |
Conspiracy Theorist
Join Date: Dec 2005
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My rankings (based on observation and personal opinion): 1. AK Leader/Itachi 2. Orochimaru 3. Deidara/Jiraiya 4. MS Kakashi/Kabuto/Sasuke (Kakashi without the MS would be (5) or (6)) 5. Tsunade/Other Akatsuki/Gai (Gai can jump to 2 using all gates though) 6. Naruto (all tails for up to now, the more power he has, the more retarded he fights) 7. Gaara and other Demon holders People may be surprised as to why I have Deidara ranked so high but these are my reasoning: - He has been given the hardest missions upto date - He usually have to do them on his own or with a joke of a partner - He usually end up having great complications at the end of his missions (like having to deal with a MS Kakashi AND a Kyuufied-ish Naruto after having to beat Gaara without killing him)
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2006-11-08, 22:33 | Link #116 |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Umm... Orochimaru is one of those guys who treats everything as a joke. I mean seriously. Everything he says its like he's joking around. I've only heard him say 2 absolutely serious comments about people. One was a statement that Itachi could kill him, the other was as a statement that naruto's chakra ball was actually real trouble for him and that it could kill him. Everything in that fight regarding naruto (and in general) was said in like a condescending manner. 4 tailed naruto was owning him! All he could do was push him back and then run away because of an "adverse reaction". Anyway my point is everything to him is playtime, even if he's getting his head pounded so you can't judge his statements to be reflective of his power compared to naruto. What you can judge is the battle between the two and in that battle, only one was in the position to kill the other. You can look at Oro's other fights and you can see that he only gets serious when he's immediately in danger. As soon as he's out of danger, he returns to being condescending.
I'm also pleased because I found the chapter where Kabuto tells of how sasori said he was going to personally kill orochimaru. A lot of people have been asking about it. Its chapter 294 if it means anything. Anyway, but yeah it seems of all the Akatsuki members, sasori was the one who hated orochimaru the most. |
2006-11-08, 22:56 | Link #117 | |
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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@ astayanax Good job with the rankings. Except it was stated that Sasori is more powerful than Deidara. And Kabuto & Sasuke more powerful than the Akatsuki members? That's pushing it. Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2006-11-08 at 23:19. |
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2006-11-09, 08:03 | Link #118 | ||
Conspiracy Theorist
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2006-11-09, 08:39 | Link #119 |
Failing Silent Assassin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Age: 38
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I'd say sasori has to rank real high up there, as one of the best. Yes he was killed, but it took absolutely incredible insight and counters to every one of the tricks he pulled out. It's like Sasori went into the fight armed with a flamethrower, where Sakura and the old lady played the fire truck.
Sasori is one of the few characters in Naruto where we witnessed incredible depth into what someone can do. Ask yourself, armed with no antidote and no in-depth knowledge of his powers(small knowledge is expected, he's a puppeteer, etc.) how well do you think someone like Kakashi, Kabuto or Oro would fare against Sasori? Remember you only need to get poisoned once to lose.... |
2006-11-09, 22:52 | Link #120 |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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My listing was only half serious. But I really have to disagree with Astayanax and his listing. Ok. Here's where I have problems. Listing the AL as number one is ok... I mean his reputation seems to precede him. Still you have to understand that if Jiraiya was evil, Kishi very well could have made him the AL leader or something. I mean I could definitely see an evil Jiraiya leading a group of 9 ninja like that. But listing the leader as number one is ok. Itachi as number 1 though?! Come on! Then you put Oro, kakashi, kabuto, and tsunade above a 4 tailed naruto! Kabuto! haha. Lets consider this. The 4 tailed naruto tangled with Oro. Oro couldn't put a dent in him. The kusinagi sword couldn't pierce that chakra shield. All oro could do was push him back. So yet you think Kabuto will find a way to pierce that chakra shield. Keep in mind that simply the chakra aura around naruto was enough to send Kabuto flying. How funny. Then you put Deidara above Naruto in the 4 tailed form too...And Sasuke. A lot of people are under the impression that Sasuke can suppress the kyubi. You have to put things in context though. One, Sasuke suppressed the kyubi in a very low state. Naruto was sort of thinking about going all kyubi. He wasn't even at the point as he was in the first fight between the two or even at the 1 tailed stage that came at the end of that fight. Sasuke managed to suppress that low level kyubi state, when the only change is the markings on his face are a bit more dramatized and his eyes change. There is no way he can suppress a 1 tail or 2 tailed form where Naruto has fully accepted Kyubi chakra. The best way to think about it is like this. If any uchiha member could suppress the kyubi's full power, then the 4th died in vain. Just the same way, if Yamato could fully suppress the kyubi's power, the 4th died in vain. But neither Sasuke nor yamato can do that. They can suppress some of it and in yamato's case with great difficulty. However if Naruto really wants to go kyubi and wants to stay that way, no one can really stop him. Anyway, all this to say, no way in hell Sasuke can handle a 4 tailed naruto. In truth, i doubt itachi could either. Neither of his super jutsus would be too helpful. I doubt amaterasu could really penetrate that intense chakra shield and even if it did, I doubt it'd still be able to destroy naruto entirely. Don't forget that at the point Naruto's healing is super amplified and Amaterasu is probably a one or 2 shot deal for Itachi. Remember the kusanagi sword is said to be able to pierce anything. Amaterasu is rumored to be able to burn through anything. We've already seen the kusanagi sword fail in that respect. And Amaterasu obviously can't burn through everything, as when itachi used it, it didn't exactly burn through several houses and the residual flames didn't exactly burn up the rest of the original house. So how about the genjutsu tsukuyomi? I doubt it'd be great either. Genjutsu forces chakra into the chakra circulatory system and gives false signals about the world. Hmm...what's naruto's chakra circulatory system like in a 4 tailed state? Must be pretty nuts. I just don't see it working well when Naruto's chakra is so wild. In addition, even if it did work, all it would do is collapse naruto's mind. In a 4 tailed state, that would be bad for itachi, and in general for everyone. Why? Well in that case, Naruto's mind would be gone, but his body technically fine. We've already seen the kyubi be opportunistic, where it takes advantages of mental lapses and weakness to have a little fun with naruto. If tsukyomi seriously weakens his mind when he's already in the 4 tailed state, the kyubi's mind which would be already active in that 4 tailed state, would be in a better position to release even more tails. You might see a 5 tailed state or a 6 tailed. I guess the better argument to state is that tsukuyomi would work on a human mind, but in the 4 tailed state, naruto is sort of not even there and its just the kyubi having fun. So tsukuyomi working on the kyubi? Doubt it.
Anyway, all that is speculation. The question to ask before you list anyone above the 4 tailed naruto is can this person find a way or does he possess a method to penetrate that chakra shield and actually do damage? Can he withstand huge shockwaves? Can he survive and fight in the presence of the pain the chakra aura causes in normal people? Oro couldn't do the first part, barely, barely survived the shockwaves with the help of 3 bishamon gates, and handled the last in a so so manner (I suspect that was the true "adverse reaction". His body seemed fine all the times before and after). |
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