The death or evolution of the sci-fi and mecha genres

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I don't want more mecha, I want more high adventure pulp space opera, with space pirates, privateers, smugglers, bounty hunters and criminal syndicates in space. And no, Moe Pirates just did not have enough of the adventuring element. I want constant reminder that while space is a terrifying thing like what you see in Alien or Pitch Black or even Event Horizon, it can be an awesome place like in the more optimistic episodes of Stargate SG1.

I totally agree. But those works were pretty rare even back in the day. And they seem to be completely extinct on American TV these days. I think that we're mostly stuck with print fiction for this kind of material.

[Ithekro]

Space Opera is very rare on TV these days. And Good space opera is even more rare.

Lets see...I suppose Star Wars: The Clone Wars is one of the few space opera-ish series produced recently. And it is going away soonish (last season arcs are being made, but we don't know were Lucasfilm/Disney are going to put it).

Star Wars film projects are coming in the very near future, as well as Star Trek: Into Darkness this year. But the newer Trek is not very Space Opera-like and certainly not very thought provoking like some episodes of the various series.

Aside from that? I don't know. I don't watch much TV as it is anyway, and only hear about film projects from time to time.

I know there are a few fan projects for Star Trek that are near-professional quality. Several use actual actors in them (the Great Bird of the Galaxy projects directed by Tim Russ and staring Walter Koenig for one. Star Trek Phase II (has lots of guest actors and Trek writers on it with a very nice set) and Star Trek Continues (Vic Mignogna as Captain Kirk) for others based on Kirk's era).

For Japan: Space Battleship Yamato is sort of the granddaddy of the animated Space Opera and its back in TV in about three weeks.

[Traece]

Is Star Trek really even considered a Space Opera? In my mind the genre has always been more slow and very grand, even a bit visually fascinating. You know, opera-esque. Star Trek is so very political, focused, fast, and I honestly never got that feeling of bigness from any of them. There's always so much going on, always someone to fight or something to take a look at. Star Trek doesn't convey the loneliness of space, the vastness that separates every entity.

It always surprises me how nothing has really tried to replace SG-1. Sure, popularity waned over time, but that's still 10 seasons. For a fiction to carry on that long and remain popular isn't exactly commonplace. That's not even mentioning the fact that they did it with two simultaneous Stargates. The point I'm trying to make is that there's obviously money in it. Surely someone can come up with a good idea for a sci-fi series that has adventure and action. Though I'm glad that after the passing of the entire franchise, people have started to warm up to Stargate Universe which was very operatic. The only improvement I really would have wanted for SGU was less drama.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Traece

Is Star Trek really even considered a Space Opera? In my mind the genre has always been more slow and very grand, even a bit visually fascinating. You know, opera-esque. Star Trek is so very political, focused, fast, and I honestly never got that feeling of bigness from any of them. There's always so much going on, always someone to fight or something to take a look at. Star Trek doesn't convey the loneliness of space, the vastness that separates every entity.

It always surprises me how nothing has really tried to replace SG-1. Sure, popularity waned over time, but that's still 10 seasons. For a fiction to carry on that long and remain popular isn't exactly commonplace. That's not even mentioning the fact that they did it with two simultaneous Stargates. The point I'm trying to make is that there's obviously money in it. Surely someone can come up with a good idea for a sci-fi series that has adventure and action. Though I'm glad that after the passing of the entire franchise, people have started to warm up to Stargate Universe which was very operatic. The only improvement I really would have wanted for SGU was less drama.

I wouldn't be so sure. Popularity for SG-1 took a nosedive with the less than stellar season 7 and then season 8 almost killed it. The next 2 seasons were great and the show managed to hit it's stride again but the fanbase was already too far gone for it to be profitable.

In fact the movie they made to finish of the storyline ended up showing exactly that: the fanbase just wasn't there and the movie bombed money-wise.

Couple that with MGM basically nearing bankruptcy at that time and you've got the perfect storm to kill the show. I'm still surprised that it even lasted that long.

But they did try to keep it going. They made that Battlestar Galactica Clone called Stargate Universe. It was such a great departure from the epic scale of SG-1 that it bombed quite badly early on and never quite recovered.

SciFi is not an easy genre and it's getting harder with people focusing less and less on the hope for the future that space exploration represents and more and more with the depressing today of "wise" economic decisions and interpersonal drama.

[totoum]

Just wondering,aren't most mecha shows anime originals?

If so I wonder if the reason we might might have seen less of them the past few years is that there was just less anime originals because they represented a financial risk.

So rather than the fanbase not liking mecha anymore it could just be that the the drop off in mecha shows was due to a drop off in anime originals as a whole.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by totoum

Just wondering,aren't most mecha shows anime originals?

If so I wonder if the reason we might might have seen less of them the past few years is that there was just less anime originals because they represented a financial risk.

So rather than the fanbase not liking mecha anymore it could just be that the the drop off in mecha shows was due to a drop off in anime originals as a whole.

Close but not exactly that. It's true that most mecha is anime original but the drop off isn't due to the risk of those kinds of shows but more due to the declining market for toys and scale models. Kids these days are more likely to buy videogames than a plastic toy of a mecha so the market has shrunken to carter mostly to the otakus.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by totoum

Just wondering,aren't most mecha shows anime originals?

If so I wonder if the reason we might might have seen less of them the past few years is that there was just less anime originals because they represented a financial risk.

So rather than the fanbase not liking mecha anymore it could just be that the the drop off in mecha shows was due to a drop off in anime originals as a whole.

I'm actually not aware of too large of a drop-off in anime originals. Though it goes without saying that it's cheaper and easier to do an adaptation of a pre-existing material which already has its own fanbase, there are still anime originals out there. In fact, from what I've personally seen it seems like anime originals tend to get the greatest amount of attention. I suppose you could consider it a risk financially, but from what I've seen it can result in a pretty large payoff.

Take Psycho-Pass for an example, from our current season. There's also Darker Than Black, and Code Geass for two notable examples from the past. Psycho-Pass and DTB are both very well received. Hopefully I don't need to mention how popular Code Geass was. This poses an interesting question, and that is whether or not anime originals as a whole pay off more than otherwise.

[creb]

I usually don't bother looking at what's coming next until the current season is almost over, and I've only just realized Gen is doing a giant robot/mecha show next season.

Hrm.

[Tempester]

Many people wish that there were more "hardcore" mecha series with less of a focus on characters or plot and more on the mecha themselves. I'd like to raise you a particular anime that most people wouldn't consider mecha, but probably has the "mechanics and weapons" atmosphere that most modern mecha series are missing. This anime is Girls und Panzer.

Now one who only looked at the promo art or dropped the anime after the first episode may question my point. But GuP isn't K-On with tanks at all. A lot of screentime is put into tank battles where the differences between tanks in technicalities such as armor, profile and speed are accounted for and explicitly highlighted. Characters don't talk to their opponents (since tank battles are a lot about stealth and surprises), and much of the dialogue during the battles is strategizing.

The anime is much more realistic than most mecha, and that's not even considering the inherent impracticality of mecha. While the society depicted is hilariously unresourceful and contrary to reality, almost everything in this anime (with a notable exception of the giant carrier ships) is physically plausible in real life using current technology, although there is a noticeable amount of plot armor and close moments for the heroine's team.

Is Girls und Panzer's marketing based on its cute girls? Hell yes, I don't doubt that. But the actual show does a marvelous job of balancing its characters and plot with the tank battles.

It's worth noting that GuP has seen a massive success in popularity and sales. It has converted a large number of people into tank enthusiasts, as collectible scale models of historical tanks have had a large increase in sales in Japan. I and many other people here have tried out the game World of Tanks solely due to GuP's influence. I've also gained a revitalized interest in 20th century history after looking up internet articles on the tanks featured in GuP. I honestly wouldn't mind if anime replaced most of the mecha in war-based anime with tanks and warplanes.

Evaluated in terms of enjoyment and quality, Girls und Panzer is hardly a remarkable anime by itself. Hell, I like a lot of mecha anime more. But GuP preserves the technical focus of classic mecha more than the majority of recent mecha titles, and that's something I feel is worth mentioning.

[Ithekro]

That might explain all the cross over videos on NicoNico using Girls und Panzer and older style mecha anime (from Gundan, to Space Battleship Yamato, to even Thunderbirds if you can believe it). There have be a high number of music and sound effects redubbing of Girls und Panzers episodes with music and sound effect from Space Battleship Yamato 2199. Entire episodes redubbed that way. Quickly I might add. Episode 11 was entirely redubbed in about two or three days.