2008-09-22, 15:28
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Link #13241 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Internet
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And no one has yet to answer why she found it necessary to zoom in on his face after finding him. Or why C.C. fired missiles in the Avalon. 
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2008-09-22, 15:35
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Link #13242 | |
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~Hi -mi- tsu des~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 39
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2008-09-22, 15:40
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Link #13243 | |
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Metal Gear!?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa
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I was concerned that Kallen would become an enemy after episode 19. I kind of wish they never had Lelouch tell her to live on since they kind of shot themselves in the foot with that line. She wouldn't have to go through all this drama concerning Lelouch. If he never said that, she would have became an enemy anyway. She still needs an answer to that, probably her fight with Suzaku she'll calm down a bit. She'll more than likely find out what's going on. I thought C.C. would have told her something but that didn't happen. Neither Lelouch or C.C. told her anything maybe Suzaku might drop a hint.
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2008-09-22, 15:47
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Link #13244 |
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Asshole.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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youngde, my point is Revolutionist keeps mentioning professional soldiers. Kallen is what, 19 years old, no formal military training. Until Zero came along she was in a terrorist cell, afterwards he imposed a somewhat more rigid and formal structure to their organisation. But even then she was the ace pilot, someone special and to top it off, she was pretty much devoted to Zero, so she had a reason to obey his orders as their constant victories bolstered their morale and trust. Now their small unit is suddenly a part of a giant military structure.... yeah I don't see it working without a hitch. Let's also consider the fact that a professional soldier usually doesn't know the enemy, no personal involvement, but in Kallen's case she knows all the leaders of the enemy forces, hell, she's in love with the enemy commander who just recently switched sides.
Does Kallen get violent in the heat of the battle? Yeah sure, she's headstrong, she charges right in, though she shows some remorse in her actions, however this war and most of the show they were against a superior force. While the word "terrorist" has no formal definition, one side may call themselves freedom fighters while the other one labels them as terrorists, Kallen is certainly not one. The BK don't generally dress up as civilians and blow up civilian targets. |
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2008-09-22, 16:02
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Link #13245 |
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Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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what i want to know is why so many people are saying that there is not need for a resolution between lelouch and kallen about his actions regarding her
even if you arent a kalulu fan or even a kallen fan there is still a very importent question that needs to be answered as a LELOUCH fan possibly as importent as the details of ZERO R (depends on who you ask) why didnt he tell her about it or ask her to join him why not even tell her something like "you'll understand in time" or "i cant tell you,but if you ever believed in me then trust me that its for the best" just to give her some doubts about fighting him why did he intentionaly make sure that she would not be on his side (he started puting up the act of not knowing her as soon as he saw her) and wouldnt have any problems fighting against him assuming that zero requiem is a good thing that kallen would agree with (and i know those people who bitch about her must think that she would, becouse otherwise why do you complain about her opposing him ) then hes actions in ep 22 make no sense what so ever from a purely stratigic stand point why would lelouch willingly (and intentionaly) see to it that the most powerfull machine that the OOBK have and the only pilot in the world who could threathen suzaku and his new albion doesnt join him (he doesnt even bother trying to get her to, from the very first words he tells her) considerin that 1)even lelouch himself acknowlges that kallen is 100% loyal to him personally (and her actions in 19 only cement it more) 2)he clearly has no problems at all trusting her (he leaves ChiChi in her care)nor does he feel any antipathy for her (nor has he a real reason to,she was the one OOBK member who didnt betray him) 3)shes the only member of the OOBK who still is willing to hear him out (she even comes out and asks him what he plans to do) 4)he has no problems with having other people involved in the plan be they close friends and allies (C.C, suzaku) loyal servents (jeremia,sayoko) and even complete strangers (Lloyd cecile) hell he even drags (drags, not ask but drags) nina into his plan (and she has every right in the world to hate him,and tried to knife him before) 5)the ZERO requiem plan is clearly so importent that he is ready to fight and possibly kill nunnaly for it when considering these facts one has to wonder about his actions in ep 22 then wherther you like kallen or not you have to wonder why lelouch would commit such a blander (that even he wasnt happy about in ep 22) why would lelouch who is famus for planning ahead,making up wild strategies and taking every advantage he can get to win why then would he willingly do something that could only be called either odd (if you really want to be nice) or more accuratly be discribed as "pants on head" retarded (if you dont) from a stratigic POV most of the fans are assuming that its becouse he wanted to keep her out of it for her own good (for a given value of good) but if this question is not addressed and answered next ep then whether he wins or loses becouse of her his actions in regards to her remain as i stated before pants on head retarded
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Last edited by bladeofdarkness; 2008-09-22 at 16:22. |
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2008-09-22, 16:05
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Link #13246 |
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Kalulu fans <3
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Kallen must have a final interaction with Lelouch ! *kalulu mode on*
While that may not end up together hope they reach understanding, she was carried away by their emotions, because Lelouch has his heart trampled 2 times (remember ep 19 and 22). ALL HAILL KALULU !! pd: Kallen has 18 years!! |
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2008-09-22, 16:45
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Link #13249 |
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Unashamed Kalulu fan
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Age: 45
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Spoiler for for length:
Some very good points made here. I like it. It is very true that the action of Lelouch doesn't make much sense considering that he could have probably turned Kallen in a heartbeat (although, it's good he didn't since the BKs would have shot her, thinking she was Geassed). They still haven't addressed why Kallen is 'essential' to the plot either since even piloting SEITEN is, at best, an obsticle that could have been replaced by any number of things. One can possibly assume that Kallen/Lelouch's resolution has something to due with tying up the overall plot. Although if Kallen (and Gino/Anya) are simple 'essential' for the sake of having someone there to explain the Requiem to, I'm going to be pissed. She's going to confront Lelouch in the last episode, the gum line seems to confirm that. And there are several sources that suggests she reconciles with him. They have left a couple avenues open for that: the fact that Lelouch tried to rescue her, the fact that he said 'live on,' and then there are her talks with Nunnally (who also happens to be there). So I still have hope left. On a same line of thought, it occured to me a little while ago that Lelouch's line to Schneizel about 'wanting a world with a future,' kinda goes with the lyric of Kallen's song 'moving forward (i.e., towards the future) on the path you believe in.' Kinda sad since it means Lelouch is somewhere where Kallen can't follow. anyways, youngde, signing off.
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2008-09-22, 17:14
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Link #13250 |
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Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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Spoiler for size:
I agree that there needs to be some sort of resolution for both characters. The problem is, Kallen has not asked herself those questions you pose, nor has she attempted to answer them herself. Let's go back to Suzaku, he was able to see through Lelouch's lies, and he came to understand and answered his own questions. This is why he's made a promise with Lelouch and C.C, this is why he's fighting. Kallen gave up too easily on Lelouch, which means she doesn't really care a lot. She went from being butt hurt over her feelings to raging because her feelings were hurt. Now, I ask you this: why the hell should SHE get any closure to her questions when she's allowed herself to be blinded by rage and hasn't even made a serious effort to answer her own goddamn questions? It's nice to have everything handed to you on a silver platter so you can take it in, digest it, analyze and understand everything. But hey, that's not how the world works! Sometimes you have to work hard to get things, i.e get an answer to important questions you have. Some people are open, some people are more introverted. Lelouch is an example of someone who has a difficult time letting others know his true feelings. At this point only two people truly understand him on a deep level, those are C.C and Suzaku. Kallen spent a lot of time getting to know the guy, and when it came down to it and she couldn't get an answer out of him, she forgot what she learned from those who were close to Lelouch and went on a rage driven vendetta. So, while it WOULD be nice if she was given answers and her feeling reciprocated, we can't allow ourselves to think that she deserves that in any way or form. Also, in her state of mind it's probably just easier, and better for everyone if she was taken out of the fight.
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2008-09-22, 17:25
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Link #13252 | |
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Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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The only question in my mind is, will it be Lelouch vi Britannia who takes over, or will it be Lord Zero...hehe.
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2008-09-22, 17:34
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Link #13253 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
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@bladeofdarkness:
Maybe he has something planned for her?  Honestly, there is one episode left...since episode 19 she could not understand his actions, no matter how you look at it.. sure even Nunnally cant understand him, but that fact remains.. I really don't know where they are planning to go with her character.... its too unpredictable at this point....I almost feel like they want people to dislike her..  like episode 24 the scene with C.C? ... I swear it almost felt forced....but one more episode.. I have hope for some kind of resolution.. but would not be surprised at the alternatives at this point.. 
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2008-09-22, 17:40
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Link #13255 | ||
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The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Lelouch, "Good, give me 30 minutes with her alone, if anyone barges in, kill them." Suzaku, "Yes your majesty" Seriously, how bad can it be? Quote:
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2008-09-22, 17:44
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Link #13256 | |
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Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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2008-09-22, 17:45
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Link #13257 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
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We will see what happens with her.. sigh... all the other characters seem safe from character assassination..
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2008-09-22, 17:46
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Link #13258 | |
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Unashamed Kalulu fan
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Age: 45
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Spoiler for for length:
1) Suzaku has the benefit of knowing what it's like to what to take the entire blame on himself. He has also known Lelouch for a much longer time than Kallen has. He has both time and experience on his side. And even then, he did NOT answer all his own questions. He turned on Lelouch at the end of episode 20 commenting on how Lelouch killed Euphie. He apparently had ALOT of his questions answered over the month that was the time skip in episode 20. 2) Kallen, meanwhile, had the assurance of Lelouch that he had never Geassed her, and the stuff she learned from C.C. over the year they were together. Suddenly, Lelouch tells her that it's all been an eloborate lie (not too far out there, coming from a genius of Lelouch's caliber), he escapes (not his choice, but she can't know), and C.C. disappears as well. She's surrounded by people that say her loyalty is because of Geass; many of these people she's known and trusted for years. Even so, she held on to the hope longer than anyone else, then Lelouch attacks peace talks, takes the politicians hostages and attacks his own organization, the BKs with an army of mind slaves. People say that she should see he has a double intention; she does, that the Lelouch she knew is fake and this was his intention all along, which is apparently just what Lelouch wanted her to do for whatever reason. He knows her well enough to know exactly how to push her away from him for her own sake; he cares for her that much. Will she awful that she lost faith when she learns the truth? Most likely. Will she be pissed about not being told the same amount as C.C. and Suzaku? Almost certainly. Will she be able to forgive Lelouch? It depends what ZR is, but her character song seems to suggest that she does. 3) I'm assuming that when you say Kallen hasn't asked herself these questions you're referring to these: 1--even lelouch himself acknowlges that kallen is 100% loyal to him personally (and her actions in 19 only cement it more) Kallen wasn't there when he ranked her 100% loyal, although she may have known it herself. He told her she was a pawn in 19, which got her out of the line of fire, then told her to 'live on.' It's a question that's plaging her, but Lelouch's lack of answer in 21 and his subsequent actions make it so she doesn't have the luxery to dwell on it. (From her view), Lelouch needs to go down. As far as she knows, he said that to her to mess with her head and make her hesitate (his immediate escape after that would indicate that). 2--he clearly has no problems at all trusting her (he leaves ChiChi in her care)nor does he feel any antipathy for her (nor has he a real reason to,she was the one OOBK member who didnt betray him) Kallen has no way of knowing that he left ChiChi in her care, since C.C. left soon after. She also has no way of knowing he feels no antipathy for her. 3--shes the only member of the OOBK who still is willing to hear him out (she even comes out and asks him what he plans to do) She kept the faith longer than anyone else. Longer than most of us would have given her circumstances. All she has to go on is a 'live on' that as far as she knows is there to screw with her head. 4--he has no problems with having other people involved in the plan be they close friends and allies (C.C, suzaku) loyal servents (jeremia,sayoko) and even complete strangers (Lloyd cecile) hell he even drags (drags, not ask but drags) nina into his plan (and she has every right in the world to hate him,and tried to knife him before) She has no idea what changes have occured in Suzaku and Lelouch's relationship since she last met either. She just knows that last time they met, Lelouch order her to kill Suzaku, which resulted in the launch of FREIJA (according to Schneizel, this was intentional). C.C. disappeared w/ Lelouch. She only knows Jeremiah from when he was an enemy. She doesn't know that Sayoko is alive. She doesn't know Nina's with him. She doesn't even know Cecile or Lloyd. 5--the ZERO requiem plan is clearly so importent that he is ready to fight and possibly kill nunnaly for it She has no reason to know Nunnally is alive either to the best of my knowledge. So she would have no reason to even ask half those questions. The rest of them Lelouch has given her answers (false though they may be). She always knows that Lelouch has double meanings to his plans, and she thinks she knows it: he was lying the whole time and was using her. How is she supposed to know that there is triple meaning to this one? Geez, cut her some freaking slack dude; we're the audience. We see all. I doubt most of us would be doing much different in her place. youngde, signing off. Quote:
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2008-09-22, 17:56
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Link #13259 |
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Smurfee
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Caribbean
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Here's my two cents concerning Kallen
From what I've read so far I'm sensing alot of Kallen hate hear but 4 me I think I could come up with how she gets her own resolution Episode 25 - RE: What I could speculate that the fight between her & Suzaku is gonna be epic, it might be a draw or it might be a defeat 4 one of them, I've come up with two instances Suzaku wins IF Suzaku wins, Kallen crashes into the sea, he goes after lelouch and nunnally, after some heavy convincing from lelouch, nunally gives up the detonator (or is geassed to) and lelouch and suzaku proceed to destroy the Damocles with Schniezel in it since he told lelouch how, thus the three faked their deaths and rendevouz with C.C. to hide out from the face of the world. Kallen left with just her mother to take care of and is being told the full truth either by Lloyd & Cecile or Sayoko and then comes to a full understanding of lelouch true intentions. A Draw-game If they draw in battle Kallen may instinctively cause her KMF to crash inside Damocles to get access to lelouch and then goes after him, Suzaku may crash hard into the sea already covering his tracks and thus hiding from the face of the earth, as Revolutionist just so rightly put it everyone has to seek out their own answer to get their own resolution hence this battle is Kallen resolution (c'mon she's fighting a losing battle to get to lelouch), during this time Lelouch will be hesitant in using geass own his sweet sister and thus proceed to give the full details of his plans and how using geass served as a double-edge sword to get him to where he is and by this time explain the full details of plan "Zero Requiem" where Kallen comes in to finally hear, in this scene she may find out his true intentions of the plan and based on her actions proceed to go with it or not. Based on what lelouch does to Nunnally, might determine what Kallen does to him, who knows? maybe he'll probably leave his sister in Kallen's care and that might probably be her essential role but again this is all based on what Lelouch final actions are. And the fact that he geassed Schniezel to serve "Zero" might either be an ass pull or to make Schniezel the ideal leader for the "New Britiannian" since Schniezel has already agreed to work with the UFN and the OotBK who doesn't really see him as a lying backstabber, hell even Cornelia would agree with Schniezel being a perfect leader, the only difference is Lelouch who is hiding out will be the one pulling the strings on Schniezel actions since he's geassed to be a puppet of Lelouch. Well that's my 2 cents, I just hope Kallen gets some sort of deal outta in the end but right now she serves no purpose in fighting, she's just fighting and the directors are definitely out to make her hateable or some sort of final boss just like Nunnally. Let's see if they both learn the truth, one way or another |
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2008-09-22, 17:56
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Link #13260 | |
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[Your] clan on Steam
Join Date: Sep 2007
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