[Manga] How to Start a Great Shinobi War...

[james0246]

From Ero-Senn1n:

Due to recent manga events, it seems more and more probable that another Great War could be on the horizon for the Narutoverse. This thread will discuss the possibility of such a conflict, as well as the make-up of the possible fronts for such a war, and the key events that could trigger such events.

Additionally, this thread will focus on why war could be good or bad for the story, and how this could spurn character growth and what such growth would look like.

Please limit the Edwin Starr and Ron Pearlman jokes...

edit: I should have named this thread "How to Start a Great Shinobi War...", oh well, there's always next time....

[Alchemist007]

I think Naruto's story will be of preventing anymore war.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Thanks for starting the thread, i never liked administrative tasks

Actually i was thinking that there are now two good reasons for a war to start:

1,
We are now at manga chapter 464 and Danzou is in a quite bad situation. Will he try to create a big ninja war (the 4th big ninja war?) just to keep his hokage title? Many bad leaders try to create a war because that way instead of being kicked out of power they can even strengthen their position and become dictators of their countries. In a war crysis the opposition will not question the leader but will stand united and even give him more executive powers without asking what is he doing. Also if the enemy attacks the leader the whole nation will stand behind him, in this situation Danzou will be questioned by the other kages and the other kages would surely want that Danzou resigns from the hokage position. However if a war breaks out then konoha's top jounins will not oppose Danzou and they will not listen to what other countries say about Danzou.
Right now Danzou is under heavy pressure by both other kages and by konoha's top jounins. It seems his only way to remain hokage is if a war breaks out. His other option was to become the leader of "the war on terror", but his genjutsu backfired when he was discovered by Ao.


2,
The villages are becoming stronger (from the reader's point of view) because Kishi introduced all the strong kages and their top ninjas while on the other hand most of akatsuki has been killed. So if there's no ninja war then i don't see where's the big danger that Naruto must stop. On one side there are all 5 villages and on the other side we have Madara, Sasuke, Kisame, Zetsu and some minor characters. I don't see how would this work, since even if new people join akatsuki still the combined forces of the 5 villages would be stronger. Madara himself does not look like a big threat, since until now he has only talked and in the past he always failed in everything he did (1st and 4th hokages beat him, his control of mizukage seems to be a failure whatever his goal was). Sasuke currently fighting against 2 of the 5 kages and is in big trouble, surely does not seem like a big threat to the world. The one being in big trouble is Sasuke, but it would be stupid if the whole story of this manga would become a "Naruto must save Sasuke" story. There's also the speech of Nagato and the old frogs about Naruto, so Naruto should care about the ninja world and not about Sasuke in the first place, which means that the story of the manga should not be about "the world vs Sasuke" but a more global and complex story. But for that to happen Danzou and Madara should drive the ninja world into a war, that is a conflict that's big enough to be solved by the main character.

So these are 2 pro reasons, what could be the cons ?

[ChojinLocke]

Well here is a scenario:

Sasuke at some point goes renegade leaving Madara. Madara offers to joins forces with Danzou to capture Sasuke (but not to kill him - for whatever plans he has). On the other spectrum, Danzou's past is revealed and he too is hunted from Sasuke who in turn is hunted from the ninja villages. Eventually Naruto and Sasuke collide and after some punches here and there they join forces against Madara and Danzou, going renegade against Konoha who now has Kakashi as Hokage. Kabuto at some point collides with them and retreats after losing, to join forces with the remaining Akatsukians to capture Sasuke.

[Kafriel]

The cons of another war:
1. Konoha could cease to exist and the ninja system could be tossed away, breaking up in clans again.
2. Someone in particular could die and trigger Naruto's (now calm) inner beast. Although that could happen outside war too...

I wouldn't want a "great war" because the naruto world feels kinda small, so instead I would prefer Madara getting his hands on Kabuto (and Orochimaru), and then taking it out on Naruto, trying to cover up his previous mistakes (losing to the first and fourth, so beating Tsunade and Naruto respectively). Meanwhile, evil Sasuke would be out of panels, unless he kills Danzou in the current arc-after this, he will be wanted everywhere so even getting near a village would require hard work.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

The cons of another war:

I think your cons can be regarded as pros if we consider what's good for a plot.

Originally Posted by Kafriel

1. Konoha could cease to exist and the ninja system could be tossed away, breaking up in clans again.
2. Someone in particular could die and trigger Naruto's (now calm) inner beast. Although that could happen outside war too...

These are the risks, a good shonen manga plot is about the risk of the whole world being trown into chaos and the good guys being killed. If a war starts or is about to start that is a big enough problem for Naruto to solve, he is said to be the guy who will change the world.

Kishimoto can do tricks so that a ninja war is not really a ninja war, like when Pain murders a lot of konoha ninja but in the end they return to life or when a ninja uses his suicide move but does not die in the end (Choji, Kakashi, etc.). What i mean is that you have the feeling of looking into a bloody ninja war but in reality only very few people die, most are saved by Naruto and his friends. Naruto is becoming strong enough to handle a ninja army, so to prevent to armies from killing each other might be an interesting job for him.

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I wouldn't want a "great war" because the naruto world feels kinda small,

I think this is also a pro reason, it would be nice if this feeling of a small world changes, if it becomes larger then the naruto world would feel more real. We need more room for the plot, so that the manga can continue for another 200 or more chapters.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

I think Naruto's story will be of preventing anymore war.

In order to prevent a war, one has to first start or almost start .

[Alchemist007]

Yeah I think that's about where the manga's at :x

[Haak]

I agree. It was even foreshadowed by the eight tails wasn't it?

[Kid Ying]

Maybe that's Madara's plan all that time, but i don't think so... For now. It doesn't look like everything is happening is going to start a war, at least for me. Sasuke is a rogue and no one thinks he got any kind of connection with the leaf and even if no one trusts Danzou, for now, they don't have any reason to start to fight with him. Now, the only thing i can imagine that could bring that is the fact that the kages are not in friend terms, to say the least. The summit looked much more like a fight ring than a place to discuss about stuff.

Maybe in the future. I would love it, hehe. I think that a big war is what is missing in Naruto's life. Jiraiya and Kakashi lived in a war and learned a lot in it. To see Naruto being one of the pillars of the beginning of the war and ending it with his power... That would be awesome.

[lonewolf777]

I could see the aftermath a huge war potentially bringing about Naruto's new world revolution that the old frog sage prophecized. Huge fight between everyone, Naruto's anti-hatred spiel and the respective warring factions succumbing to his way of thinking and therefore uniting all the countries under that mantle - this could logically be the beginning of the end of the ninja/ninja village way of hatred that Minato lectured Naruto on.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Sasuke is a rogue and no one thinks he got any kind of connection with the leaf

Difficult to not think when Sakura and Naruto refused to give any information on Sasuke to raikage's team. But i agree that it won't be Sasuke's connection with the leaf that causes the war, the main point of this thread is that Danzou now has the power to start a war before he is trown out of his nice hokage position by the elder jounins of konoha. Also Madara wants Sasuke to fight and gain more power by fighting and finally gaining EMS.

The plot reason for a war is that it would create enough adventures for both Sasuke and Naruto so that they don't have to fight each other until the end of the manga. I mean both can be levelled up and beat the shit out of kage level ninjas and entire ninja armies until they are hyped up enogh for a final big battle. The hype is needed because Madara says it will be the fated battle between the two big sides that have ruled the ninja world since the beginning and also because the prophecy about Naruto. It would be a similar build up as it was for Pain to beat Jiraiya and Konoha or for Sasuke and Itachi to beat Orochimaru and Deidara.

If there's no ninja war then who could be Naruto's opponent (before Sasuke) ? Currently only Kisame or Zetsu, but why would Madara send those two when he knows that even Pain was defeated by Naruto, it wouldn't make sense to send weaker guys. If Naruto doesn't have a good opponent to fight with then we should really rename this manga to Sasuke

There was a nice fake spoiler several weeks ago, in that fake spoiler there was an organization that was standing above akatsuki, it had two or more ninjas in it besides Madara. That would be a nice alternative to a ninja war, to get a worthy opponent for Naruto

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

If there's no ninja war then who could be Naruto's opponent (before Sasuke) ? Currently only Kisame or Zetsu, but why would Madara send those two when he knows that even Pain was defeated by Naruto, it wouldn't make sense to send weaker guys. If Naruto doesn't have a good opponent to fight with then we should really rename this manga to Sasuke

Well there's still Kabuto. He's probably hella strong now and he might have gathered a couple of Oro's leftover followers and done some experimenting on them to make them become enough of a threat to the good guys. If Danzou gets what he wants out of Kabuto concerning his eye and arm then he could also become a dangerous opponent.

I guess there could also be other Akatsuki-level nin out there that we haven't seen yet. Maybe in some lesser known hidden villages like Hidan's. But if there were it seems like they would've already been "recruited" by Akatsuki like Deidara was.

I can't really see all-out war breaking out between the villages mainly because most of the villages have been revealed, as a whole, not to be too antagonistic (even likable) and usually Konoha's enemies are depicted as clearly evil at the time they're fighting against Konoha. Like others said, it might come close to that, but Naruto would probably prevent it.

[Rahan]

Even if there is a war, who could take on Naruto right now ?

Naruto and Sasuke are way too strong for a war. Sasuke takes on kages 2 at once. ... Naruto probably could to the other 2 with ease (a woman and an ederly). Only Danzou is left.

Kishi clearly gave the finger to the fans wanting the secondary characters in action during the Pain arc and the secondary characters are basically the only reason a war could be interesting.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Well there's still Kabuto. He's probably hella strong now and he might have gathered a couple of Oro's leftover followers and done some experimenting on them to make them become enough of a threat to the good guys.

Kabuto might become very strong, but i don't believe he could reach the level of Pain just by experimenting on his own body.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

If Danzou gets what he wants out of Kabuto concerning his eye and arm then he could also become a dangerous opponent.

Yes, i was thinking the same, but for that he needs time, so if he can create a chaos big enough his secret plan can succeed, such a chaos is a beginning ninja war. Kabuto was never kage level, but Danzou was kage level when he was young (3rd hokage's rival) so with some monster-based body he could become strong enough for one big fight with either Naruto or Sasuke.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I guess there could also be other Akatsuki-level nin out there that we haven't seen yet. Maybe in some lesser known hidden villages like Hidan's. But if there were it seems like they would've already been "recruited" by Akatsuki like Deidara was.

There surely are some kage level ninja that were not introduced, most of them should be part of a village, and only a very few missing ninjas. But they don't have any reason to fight with Naruto. Unless they are recruited by Madara or their village goes into war with konoha. The latter is more believeable, to recruit ninja is a work that Madara and Nagato were doing for many long years, they cant just pull out a kage level evil ninja from nowhere.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I can't really see all-out war breaking out between the villages mainly because most of the villages have been revealed, as a whole, not to be too antagonistic (even likable) and usually Konoha's enemies are depicted as clearly evil at the time they're fighting against Konoha. Like others said, it might come close to that, but Naruto would probably prevent it.

We see that at the kage summit village leaders were accusing each other and they have no trust in each other. Right now the mizukage does not let Danzou leave the summit, threatening the hokage is almost an act of war. But so was Danzou's move to use genjutsu to trick all 4 other kages. Both Danzou and Madara can be the "antagonists", who trick the kages to declare war, i mean the 4 kages are don't have to be the antagonists for a war to begin, they can be used by the two big manipulators of the story.

[SeanQ]

There's probably not going to be an all-out war...it's normal for manipulation and accusations to occur during a meeting...but no one's going to declare war over it unless one of them kills someone...and mainly, the entire manga has been focused on chasing Sasuke and the threat of Akatsuki...so it's more like a War on Akatsuki and affiliations coming...or already is...
________
Volcano Easy Valve Or Solid Valve

[That Other Ninja]

A new war will emerge.

Madara will instigate it at the behest of his unknown sponsors.

They will eventually be revealed and we will know them as:

The Federal Ninja Reserve.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Kabuto might become very strong, but i don't believe he could reach the level of Pain just by experimenting on his own body.

Kabuto said he was going to surpass Oro, that's kage-level. He doesn't need to have Pein's raw power, he has the cunning to make up for it.

We see that at the kage summit village leaders were accusing each other and they have no trust in each other. Right now the mizukage does not let Danzou leave the summit, threatening the hokage is almost an act of war. But so was Danzou's move to use genjutsu to trick all 4 other kages. Both Danzou and Madara can be the "antagonists", who trick the kages to declare war, i mean the 4 kages are don't have to be the antagonists for a war to begin, they can be used by the two big manipulators of the story.

There was tenseness (more so from the bodyguards than the kages themselves), but I'd say they were far from being at each other's throats. Raikage is short-tempered and distrustful, but only interested in killing Sasuke right now. Mizukage doesn't seem to have a problem with anyone except Danzou. Even showed some admiration for Gaara. Tsuchikage doesn't like taking mouth from the others, but still seems more amused by what's happening than anything. And of course Gaara's almost as anti-war as Naruto now and he just helped out the Raikage and his men.

Even Danzou hasn't done anything too aggressive (the genjutsu was under-handed but hardly an act of war). Everyone's suspicious of him sure, but unless he does something that convinces the kages that Konoha is immediate threat to their countries, the other villages have no reason to declare war. There will definitely be more battles, just have doubts about war.

It's true Madara is a wild card. I'm not sure how he could simply trick 5 countries into going to war, especially now that everyone knows he's alive but he's probably the best chance to get the ball rolling.

Originally Posted by Rahan

Even if there is a war, who could take on Naruto right now ?

Naruto and Sasuke are way too strong for a war. Sasuke takes on kages 2 at once. ... Naruto probably could to the other 2 with ease (a woman and an ederly). Only Danzou is left.

Kishi clearly gave the finger to the fans wanting the secondary characters in action during the Pain arc and the secondary characters are basically the only reason a war could be interesting.

Well I wouldn't count out Tsuchikage. Sandaime was an old man too and he put up a good fight...

And the problem with Pein was that he was an opponent pretty much gift-wrapped for Naruto, much like Itachi was meant for Sasuke. It was personal and important that Naruto faced him alone. It's still possible for the secondary characters to be worked in against other opponents. Like Team Taka sat out against Itachi, but they saw action in the Killer Bee and Raikage battles.

Originally Posted by SeanQ

There's probably not going to be an all-out war...it's normal for manipulation and accusations to occur during a meeting...but no one's going to declare war over it unless one of them kills someone.

Yeah, I'm actually impressed that they're finally managing to get the other countries involved after all this time.

[ZGoten]

Originally Posted by Rahan

Even if there is a war, who could take on Naruto right now ?

Naruto and Sasuke are way too strong for a war. Sasuke takes on kages 2 at once. ... Naruto probably could to the other 2 with ease (a woman and an ederly). Only Danzou is left.

Kishi clearly gave the finger to the fans wanting the secondary characters in action during the Pain arc and the secondary characters are basically the only reason a war could be interesting.

I guess your statement is based on the Naruto vs. Pain and the current Sasuke vs. all fight.

Naruto had 3 Giant Frogs, Hinata and Minato´s Seal on his side. Plus he had time to prepare and even leave a bunshin back at the frog village to use Sage Mode a second time, whereas Pain was already exhausted from bombing Konoha into pieces and fighting some Jounins before.
You can hardly tell that Naruto had any real chance of winning under fair conditions.

As for the current fight, We don´t even know that Sasuke can handle 2 Kages. All that we know is that he survived one combined attack, by using Susanoo (which could as well lead to the breakdown of his body in the next chapter).
At this point, I still see Itachi slightly ahead of Sasuke.


@Topic:

I really do believe that there will be some kind of alliance between the countries, in order to face the thread resembled by Akatsuki. Well, Akatsuki is down to very few members but they have seven tailed beasts after all. Each of them could take on a village perhaps. Also there is the possibility of recruiting new criminals to Akatsuki. Kishimoto introduced us to quite a number of new characters recently, so why not a few more villains?
And...is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that there could be some sort of connection between Danzou and Madara? This whole war could be a plot of Danzou willingly leading the alliance into ruin.

[Kafriel]

Both of them crave war, so the possibility that they are allies is pretty high. So if we take a look at their actions <skips the Madara=Danzou theories> we can see Danzou instigating the war after everyone else picks on Madara's bait (Sasuke, for now at least). I still got a question though, if Danzou does start some war, and Tsunade wakes up in the middle of it, what happens next? Would he keep his position and send her in war to heal everyone till she drops, or would she take back her place and make a truce?

Kishimoto can do tricks so that a ninja war is not really a ninja war

Come to think of it few people were mentioned dead in any great war...but if there's a war, it would be good to have some casualties to avoid a second bleach.

if it becomes larger then the naruto world would feel more real

I think it is a bit late to introduce new locations on the ninja map, but if it does happen, I'm eager to see how it will be done