(L) Tales of Zestiria the Cross

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Ufotable actually asked for the rights to the anime,

What? No, Bamco has the rights. Ufo's just a contractor.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

What? No, Bamco has the rights. Ufo's just a contractor.

Bamco has the rights to the IP itself, but Ufotable studio approached Bamco for the rights to make the anime. Bamco gave them the go ahead.

The only thing that Ufotable was contracted to make was the Dawn of the Shepherd OAD, and the cut scenes for Zestiria and Berseria. That's also the reason why no one from Tales Studio is on the staff for the anime.

Hence why Bamco doesn't really seem to care about the anime's failure.

It's not something that is uncommon you know?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Bamco has the rights to the IP itself, but Ufotable studio approached Bamco for the rights to make the anime. Bamco gave them the go ahead.

This is the production committee for Zestiria the X:

Bandai Visual
Lantis
Bandai Namco Entertainment
Anime Consortium Japan

These guys are funding the anime, and they also get all the profits from sales. If the anime flops, this guys are the ones that lose money.

Ufo might have approached Bamco to do the anime, but they're still doing it as contractors. They're not getting any profits nor will they lose any money.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

This is the production committee for Zestiria the X:

Bandai Visual
Lantis
Bandai Namco Entertainment
Anime Consortium Japan

These guys are funding the anime, and they also get all the profits from sales. If the anime flops, this guys are the ones that lose money.

Ufo might have approached Bamco to do the anime, but they're still doing it as contractors. They're not getting any profits nor will they lose any money.

Bandai Visual is listed because Zestiria is a Bandai original IP, so this is the group you actually need to approach when making an anime adaptation for any Bandai work.

Bandai Namco Entertainment are the owners of the original IP, since Tales Studio is a part of it, so of course they're going to be listed.

Lantis is listed because Ufotable is using their music.

And Daisuki aka Anime Consortium Japan is listed because they have broadcasting rights, just like how TV Tokyo is listed in all anime that aired on their station.

In other words, that isn't a list of people funding the anime, it's a list of people who own the rights to Zestiria's IP, and the channel that will broadcast it.

Ufotable isn't a contractor, because they are the ones who approached Bamco. To be a contractor Bamco would have had to have been the ones to approach Ufotable not the other way around. Production IG when working on "The First Strike" were contractors. What Ufotable was attempting to do was collaborate.

On the subject Ufotable having no losses for the anime doing badly, you're sadly mistaken. They do share a massive cut of the BDs sales' profits (yes they do have to give some to Bandai Visual, and Lantis), and also with the profits they also share the losses. There's also the fact that Ufotable owns movie theaters and Cafe's across Japan and where they feature the shows that they make. The anime being a flop means that they can't play in their theaters and their cafes or if they do, they'll just lose money.

There's also the fact that if Bandai Visual really stood to use money then they'd be pushing Tales Studio to advertise the anime, but they're not, and also Ufotable wouldn't be so desperate to have people like the ending and get those sales. If it really didn't matter then it would be the other way around Bamco would be desperate to increase sales and Ufotable wouldn't care either way.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

In other words, that isn't a list of people funding the anime, it's a list of people who own the rights to Zestiria's IP, and the channel that will broadcast it.

It's the production committee. Of course they're funding the anime. Specially the head of the committee. This kind of listing indicates a tier of risk and profit. The head of the committee puts the most money so they shoulder the biggest risk, but also gets most of the profit.

For example, KyoAni, one of the very few studios who funds some of their own projects, appears as head of the committee when they're doing so. Ufo isn't even in the committee for Zestiria the X so they're just contractors.

Ufotable isn't a contractor, because they are the ones who approached Bamco.

That doesn't mean they're funding the anime. Anime studios generally suggest adaptations to publishers all the time, if they see that a tittle has some potential. They want to get the job before any other studio, after all. But it doesn't mean they're gonna help funding the project, at all. They're still just contractors.

On the subject Ufotable having no losses for the anime doing badly, you're sadly mistaken. They do share a massive cut of the BDs sales' profits (yes they do have to give some to Bandai Visual, and Lantis), and also with the profits they also share the losses.

Ufo would be the head of the committee if they have such investment in the project. This isn't up to debate. That's how the industry works.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's the production committee. Of course they're funding the anime. Specially the head of the committee. This kind of listing indicates a tier of risk and profit. The head of the committee puts the most money so they shoulder the biggest risk, but also gets most of the profit.

IP holders and Broadcasting companies are always listed or rather credited as a part of the production committee, regardless of whether or not they're funding the anime simply because they own the IP and the broadcasting rights. It's not a list of risk and profit holders, it's a list of who owns the rights to what. This is actually true for all adaptations, regardless of whether or not the IP holders are actually funding the adaptation they will always be listed as a part of the production committee.

KyoAni, one of the very few studios who funds some of their own projects, appears as head of the committee when they're doing so.

No, they're not, alternatively it's because most adaptations are actually shounen manga adaptations, which are a completely different beast. Those studios are contractors because the publisher approaches them to make an anime adaptation of a work so that it can move more sales. However this is only really true for Shounen manga adaptations, and even then there are exceptions.

Ufo isn't even in the committee so they're just contractors.

This is blatantly incorrect, Ufotable actually has top billing on the production committee.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...e.php?id=18918


In fact Bandai Namco studio are listed as collaborators, not as contractors, because Ufotable were the ones who approached them for the anime.

That doesn't mean they're funding the anime. The suggestion to make the anime can come from anywhere.

It's quite telling really if you use common sense, if Bandai really had a lot to lose, then they would be the ones worrying about the BD sales not Ufotable. But that's not the case, instead it's Ufotable whose pushing the anime, while Bamco tends to ignore it. Alternatively if they really did fund the anime then, then after the first season aired and Japanese fans viewership dropped sales weren't increasing Bandai would have likely inferred with the production to ensure that Ufotable didn't lose anymore viewers (which they have done in the past).

Not a chance. Ufo would be the head of the committee if they have such investment in the project. This isn't up to debate. That's how the industry works.

I have to wonder about how much you understand about the industry then, if you don't even know that Ufotable does have a stake in the anime, and that your example is mostly true shounen anime adaptations. What's up for debate if your lack of knowledge of Ufotable's ventures, if you don't even know how Ufotable makes money.

Anime production isn't a one size fits all affair, different situations result in different anime productions.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

This is blatantly incorrect, Ufotable actually has top billing on the production committee.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...e.php?id=18918

You're confusing producers with production committee.

It's quite telling really if you use common sense, if Bandai really had a lot to lose, then they would be the ones worrying about the BD sales not Ufotable. But that's not the case, instead it's Ufotable whose pushing the anime, while Bamco tends to ignore it. Alternatively if they really did fund the anime then, then after the first season aired and Japanese fans viewership dropped sales weren't increasing Bandai would have likely inferred with the production to ensure that Ufotable didn't lose anymore viewers (which they have done in the past).

This is all guess work. In any case, go the anime website, scroll down to the bottom right corner. What does it say? © BNEI/TOZ-X.  BNEI has the rights for the anime. That wouldn't be the case if they granted production rights to Ufo.

What's up for debate if your lack of knowledge of Ufotable's ventures, if you don't even know how Ufotable makes money.

Let's put it simple. If you have a source stating that Ufo funded the project, post it here and we can save ourselves a pointless argument.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

You're confusing producers with production committee.

No, I'm not. The people listed under the production committee are

Production:
Anime Consortium Japan
Bandai Namco Entertainment
Bandai Visual
Lantis
ufotable

You literally just forgot to add Ufotable on the list of members of the production committee.

The only group credited as the producers is actually Ufotable. Because the list of producers are all Ufotable staff. The president of Ufotable himself is listed both as the head writer for the anime, as well the producer.

Producer:
Hikaru Kondo
Ken'ichi Yatomi
Koichiro Tomita
Tomoko Takehara
Yōhei Kisara

the producers for the anime are these guys.

The person who is mistaken is you.

This is all guess work.

It's partially common sense partially because the situation for the anime's production is leading to that conclusion. Bandai is well known for being money grubbing, and they have been know to interfere with anime production if they feel that more money can be made from making changes. Ufotable also is one of those elusive studios who do make their own profit off of the things they make. Otherwise Bandai would be the ones who literally begged Tales fans to like the anime. There's also the fact that the BD specials and everything are being announced by Ufotable instead of Bandai, like the they normally do.

Let's put it simple. If you have a source stating that Ufo funded the project, post it here and we can save ourselves a pointless argument.

Ufotable were the ones who announced the anime, not Bamco, like they did with "The First Strike" and "Tales of the Abyss". Do you have a source saying that Bandai does have a high stake in the anime, because you're relying heavily on assumptions to say that they are.

Not only that but you're evidence actually goes against your own point, since Ufotable is actually listed as a member of the anime's production committee which you erroneously claimed that they weren't. All evidence points to Ufotable having a major stake in the anime.

[RDNexus]

Wouldn't it be better for both of you to take it to PMs or the like? Before the Mods get into your case...

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Not only that but you're evidence actually goes against your own point, since Ufotable is actually listed as a member of the anime's production committee which you erroneously claimed that they weren't. All evidence points to Ufotable having a major stake in the anime.

I asked for a source stating that they funded the project and you can't deliver. I already proved they don't have the rights. So as far as I'm concerned, this discussion is done.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I asked for a source stating that they funded the project and you can't deliver. I already proved they don't have the rights. So as far as I'm concerned, this discussion is done.

What do you think Production Commitees do? I already proved my point, and you also proved that you don't know anything about the anime production industry, nevermind Ufotable.

You were wrong about Ufotable not being a part of the production committee because you erroneously thought that all anime studios except for Kyo-Ani, don't fund their own anime. You also have no knowledge of Ufotable's own business ventures, so yes, this discussion is done because I have no time to continue replying to someone who not only can't get their information, but doesn't understand the answer when they're staring right at it.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

What do you think Production Commitees do?

Prove that Ufo has the biggest stake in it. That's what you're claiming anyway. Which doesn't even make sense since Bandai has production and distribution rights for the anime.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Can you prove Ufo has the biggest stake in it? I don't think so.

So you finally admit that Ufotable does have a stake in the anime?

As for proving Ufotable's stake in the anime

You can see in the producers.
Producer:
Hikaru Kondo
Ken'ichi Yatomi
Koichiro Tomita
Tomoko Takehara
Yōhei Kisara
Do you know any of these men are? They're members of Ufotable, Hikaru Kondo as I've stated before is the Ufotable president, he's not just the head writer for ToZX.

None of these people work for Bandai, in other words Bandai has no employee on the staff they're only credited in four areas; Production Committee, Original Creator, Planning Collaboration, Design Collaboration, and Title Design.

If Bandai had a high stake then they would have had a producer on the active staff, which again is what they do with most of their other properties if they have a high stake in it, like say Digimon. This effectively means that their stake in the anime wasn't very high, it's high enough for them to make money off of the merchandise they create for it, but low enough for them to not to do so.

compare TOZX to Doushi no Yoake
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...e.php?id=16299
notice how Bamco actually has their staff working on it?

Lantis only handles the licensed music so of course their stake isn't very high.

Daisuki is broadcasting so again stakes aren't very high here either.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

So you finally admit that Ufotable does have a stake in the anime?

If they are the committee, maybe the have a stake. But you claimed Ufo has the rights to the anime, which is not true, and the biggest stake, which you couldn't prove.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

But you claimed Ufo has the rights to the anime, which is not true, and the biggest stake, which you couldn't prove.

Of course Ufotable has rights to the anime they produced it, that's basic copyright law. As for their stake in the anime, exactly what do you think producers are a reflection of?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Of course Ufotable has rights to the anime they produced it, that's basic copyright law.

They don't have the rights. Bamco has the right for the anime. It's stated everywhere. In the anime website, in the back of the BDs, everywhere.

As for their stake in the anime, exactly what do you think producers are a reflection of?

You mean that list of producers you claimed are all from Ufo? Kisara is from Lantis and Takehara is from Bandai. I don't know the others but I doubt they're from Ufo expect Kondo.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

They don't have the rights. Bamco has the right for the anime. It's stated everywhere. In the anime website, in the back of the BDs, everywhere.

And Ufotable is listed right next to them. Again it's just like how Shuiesha owns One Piece IP as a whole but Toei owns rights to the anime.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

And Ufotable is listed right next to them.

No they're not. It appear everywhere as ©BNEI/TOZ‐X

[LKK]

^ Stop it, both of you. Take it off-thread if you want, but it ends here as far as the thread goes.