Mari Okada discussion

[totoum]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

A lot more than a handful . :

That's why I bothered putting the studio in the OP because a lot of people only associate her with a few studios when in fact she's been around,it's just that her work for zexcs or david production aren't memorable.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by totoum

Just want to clear this up,she scripted the dialogue in some episodes but she wasn't the series composer, it was Takuya Sato

Oh so it was only a few episodes. Well I was just going to blame Deen anyway but it's nice to know she didn't do that much.

There might be a gap between what Okada likes and what she writes , would love to have this translated but it seems she's a big fan of UN-GO.

That's nice though I hope it's not just because of Inga...

Come to think of it, AKB0048 does kinda bear some similarity to the “Singing on the Battlefield” group. If only the anime would actually explore that line. Then it might actually be good.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I want to see this scenario unfold now though.

I'd rather not because then she'd turn into another obnoxious Yamakan, except even worse because she's fighting for weird crap rather than good storylines...

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And I'm not sure if we'd have as many anime originals over the past two years if not for Mari Okada.

That's just utterly ridiculous considering the only high selling original title she has been apart of is AnoHana which came out last April (and sales figures weren't aailable for 3 months after that.. and than you have to add most astute people would've credited Nagai...) and would've had no bearing on any original production in the last 2 years, apart from maybe getting her hired for Aquarion EVOL and AKB which I'm sure would've went ahead regardless and so owe nothing to her. I would dare say that you see more anime original productions these days because as Yamakan said a few years back "the well is dry" when it comes to LN adaptations.

Look @ the Top LN sellers for the first half of the fiscal year on MAL, out of the 38 novels shown, only 4 entries do not yet have an anime aired or announced. Biblia Koshoten no Jikentecho (the clear #1 and #2 LN of 2012), Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei, Date A Live & Hentai Ouji to Warawanai Neko. They are only @ 2 vols, 5 vols, 4 vols and 5 vols respectively so it's only a matter of time. Though Jikentecho due to its mainstream popularity could get the live action treatment instead. Manga is in the same situation... only 3 titles out of the Top 30 are yet to have an anime though the big gun of that bunch in Shingeki no Kyojin is already getting a live action movie.

This combined with most big selling titles actually being anime originals is probably a reason for the spike in them the last two years, certainly more than any Mari Okada ffs. Quickly scanning there was like 7 anime originals in 2010 and just about double that the following year.. and 2010 had no Mari Okada originals... they doubled the output before Okada left her imprint, whatever you determine it to be.

[TJR]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

What I got from that article using my limited google translate (lol), was that Okada was inspired by I Can Hear the Sea and Only Yesterday. Both of them are Ghibli josei dramas. Never seen I Can Hear the Sea, but I did see Only Yesterday, which was excellent. So this is where she got her inspiration from for her drama scripts? No wonder why she was great (compared to the rest) in the past.

But look at her now... sigh.

Don't trust me on this, google translate is unreliable lol. It came out all grammatically wrong, but i did see those two films mentioned. Or maybe they were comparing Ano Hana to them. If they were LOL. Just no, Anohana is in no way comparable to those two (Well at least Only Yesterday since I saw that one), doesn't have the quality .

Those aren't her words. I think the writer is drawing a comparison between those works because they're all anime original and deal with similar themes.

As for Okada, she's quite well read. Junichiro Tanizaki is a probable influence, at least for True Tears (BTW, what immediately stood out to me was Hiromi's way of letting Shinichirou catch a glimpse of her while undressing or preparing for a bath. It bears a striking resemblance to something from The Makioka Sisters) and Hanasaku Iroha.

I would dare say that you see more anime original productions these days because as Yamakan said a few years back "the well is dry" when it comes to LN adaptations.

Yeah, producers are worried about lack of source material, so the spike in original works is a reaction. They're going with new concepts out of necessity.

It has nothing to do with Mari Okada (her initial anime original efforts were commercial failures anyway, with CANAAN arguably doubling as a critical flop) since several original projects sprang up at the same time - Penguindrum, Dog Days, Madoka, Blood-C, Guilty Crown, Ano Natsu de Matteru.....I think we already got a sense of what was happening with TV Tokyo's Anime no Chikara.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by TJR

As for Okada, she's quite well read. Junichiro Tanizaki is a probable influence, at least for True Tears (BTW, what immediately stood out to me was Hiromi's way of letting Shinichirou catch a glimpse of her while undressing or preparing for a bath. It bears a striking resemblance to something from The Makioka Sisters) and Hanasaku Iroha.

I'd also point to Yoko Ogawa's Hotel Iris which is like a serious version of HanaIro's infamous third episode. There's a girl working at a seaside hotel with her shrewish mother. A guy who claims to be a translator of Russian literature comes to stay and beats up a prostitute in his room. The girl becomes fascinated with him and eventually strikes up a soda-masochistic romance with him. She discovers that rather than translating literature, he's doing Russian porno stories. [spoiler]They're eventually discovered and he commits suicide by jumping off a boat and drowning. [/spoiler.

[C.A.]

The only anime I've seen written by her is Aquarion EVOL.

Honestly even though I liked the original Aquarion, I thought it was lacking at some points, but Aquarion EVOL falls way below that. At least the 12000 year romance in the original was quite fresh and interesting, but EVOL was just horrible and childish.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Westlo

That's just utterly ridiculous considering the only high selling original title she has been apart of is AnoHana...

That depends on what you define as "high selling". Hanasaku Iroha sold quite well. Writing two high-selling anime originals airing in the same season strikes me as a nice accomplishment for an anime writer.

And if Okada has nothing to do with the recent rise in anime originals, then why is she so often getting picked to do writing for them? It's almost like the anime industry has nobody to turn to but her...

Well, you can't have anime originals unless you have people that are actually capable and willing and available to write the entire narratives for them. I should hope that we can all agree that somebody writing an anime original has a lot more work to do than somebody who simply takes a manga, LN, or a VN and adapts it into anime (all else being equal, such as length of the anime in question).

So if Okada hadn't been available to write HSI and AnoHana, who would have wrote them? Would they even have been made?

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And if Okada has nothing to do with the recent rise in anime originals, then why is she so often getting picked to do writing for them? It's almost like the anime industry has nobody to turn to but her...

They're two different things. From the producing side, once they've decided to spearhead an anime original project, they have to appoint suitable staff who can do the job.....sometimes the people they select (all the way to top positions, including director and lead writer) can even change mid-production when someone doesn't work out, quits, or has a falling out with the execs. Sometimes they look outside the industry for a creator, such as the case of Gen Urobuchi.

There's no reason to believe that she's the cause of an increase in original shows through True Tears and CANAAN (unless you also believe that Sora no Woto, Guilty Crown, and Vivid Red Operation were made for the sake of presenting more Hiroyuki Hoshino writing). If industry conditions were the same as in 2006, she'd probably be doing more adaptations.

So if Okada hadn't been available to write HSI and AnoHana, who would have wrote them? Would they even have been made?

P.A. Works (with producer Takayuki Nagatani backing them) was going to do a tenth anniversary project regardless. With a different writer at the helm, the final result may not have been "Hanasaku Iroha", but there was already a will to create something.

AnoHana was part of Aniplex's initiative to push original shows. There's no doubt that the Toradora! staff was selected because of their success on that production. Nevertheless, the goal would've been the same even if the deal had fallen through. Aniplex would've moved on and worked out an original show with a different crew, just as they did with Angel Beats, Sora no Woto, Madoka, Dog Days, Guilty Crown......

BRS and the Aquarion sequel were going to be made even if other writers were appointed. Fractale was Yutaka Yamamoto's thing.

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by TJR

P.A. Works (with producer Takayuki Nagatani backing them) was going to do a tenth anniversary project regardless. With a different writer at the helm, the final result may not have been "Hanasaku Iroha", but there was already a will to create something.

Iroha was Horikawa's baby. He was the one who wanted to do the project during CANAAN's production. Here's a quote from the 8th Hanairo Notebook from an interview with Animation Director Kanami Sekiguchi:

-Sekiguchi-san, you served as both character designer and chief animation director (hereafter: animation director) for Hanasaku Iroha. Let’s start by telling us how you became involved in this project.

Around the time true tears was finishing, Horikawa-san (Producer/P.A. Works Representative) first talked to me about “participating in an original work about girls persevering.” At that time, the structure was just being put together. But I was about to start work on CANAAN and so that’s the only concrete story I can say. My first impression of Hanasaku Iroha is faint. (laughs)

-So things were already in motion before CANAAN finished, or should we say hadn’t finished yet?

Yes. By then it had already been decided that the story would take place in a hot springs inn. It was unusual for an inn, much less a hotel, to be the focal point of an anime. But it is P.A. Works after all. How should I say it... it’s plain and simple. (laughs) It wouldn’t be flashy, but the main story would be about girls’ everyday lives in an inn. And then there would be various points around that theme, which reduced any resistance we had. I also felt confident about a simple story versus a flashy action story.

Personally, given the material I've translated, I feel that Okada didn't have much to do with the overall structure as she did with the fine details of each episode (like the bondage scene in episode 3) Also, the animation director for episode 3, Yuriko Isshii, was known to be fond of these antics, so it might not be just Okada to blame for Jiromaru's personality.

[Triple_R]

You're not really answering my question, TJR.

If there's a wide pool of readily available anime writing talent, and all of these writers are as easily interchangeable as you appear to be arguing, then why is Okada being relied on as much as she is?

Obviously, you can't have an anime original work without somebody to write it. Really, you're just speculating that Aniplex would have pushed forward with AnoHana even if Okada wasn't available to write that. I'm not so sure of that.

Part of the reason I'm not so sure about that is because Nagai was clearly not pleased with Okada's original script. So why not just hire another writer if the Director is that displeased with the writer's work that he'd want her to go back to the drawing board with it? Maybe it's because there wasn't another writer they could find that they felt was up to this task? Maybe without Mari Okada, AnoHana gets stuck in developmental hell? It's not inconceivable, imo.

It's not unheard of for entertainment projects to get stuck in developmental hell. It often happens with Hollywood movie projects, so I don't see any reason why it couldn't happen with an anime project that lacks the desired talent to create/produce it.

Originally Posted by TJR

There's no reason to believe that she's the cause of an increase in original shows through True Tears and CANAAN (unless you also believe that Sora no Woto, Guilty Crown, and Vivid Red Operation were made for the sake of presenting more Hiroyuki Hoshino writing).

Of course the anime industry isn't creating more anime original works just to showcase Okada's writing. That's not at all what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that the anime industry isn't exactly overflowing with well-known prolific writers (even the four you raised haven't done a whole lot of recent anime original work - i.e. work over the past two years or so). If Okada isn't there to fill a specific anime original writing role, maybe that role just doesn't get filled, and the project ends up in developmental hell.

P.A. Works (with producer Takayuki Nagatani backing them) was going to do a tenth anniversary project regardless. With a different writer at the helm, the final result may not have been "Hanasaku Iroha", but there was already a will to create something.

Well, without Okada, maybe it would have been an adaptation instead.

AnoHana was part of Aniplex's initiative to push original shows. There's no doubt that the Toradora! staff was selected because of their success on that production.

Right. The Toradora! staff was the desired talent. It's not unheard of for entertainment projects to get shelved (at least for awhile) when the desired talent is unavailable.

Heck, we have a clear example of this with Little Busters! There's every reason to believe that Key wanted KyoAni to do it, but the desired KyoAni wasn't available, so Little Busters! was likely pushed back and pushed back until Key finally lost patience with KyoAni and hired JC Staff instead.

[totoum]

Sorry Triple_R but I'm gonna have to go with TJR on this one.

P.A works wanted to celebrate their 10th birthday with an original anime,this project would have happened regardless, as for Ano Hana i'm sure Nagai would have been willing to work with someone like Koruda like he did on Ano Natsu.

As for Aquarion evol she was a late addition the anime was well into pre production when she joined.
As for AKB0048 there's this:

They wanted to remove Okada Mari from the AKB0048 staff because the production is running late on Aquarion EVOL, and she got really mad. But it sounds like they gave her the AKB0048 job after making the promise that EVOL wouldn't be running late... and it is. Oh man.

edit: There's also the fact that anime does tend to be director focused,the big name behind "C" and "tsuritama" is director Kenji Nakamura,not their respective writers.Just like the big name behind Rinne no Lagrange is director Tatsuo Sato, not the writer (who also was responsible for the 2nd half the anime original Darker than black)
Some directors just do the writing themselves like Kunihiko Ikuhara with Mawaru Penguin Drum and Junichi Sato with Tamayura

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by totoum

Sorry Triple_R but I'm gonna have to go with TJR on this one.

Then please answer the same question I asked TJR:

If there's a wide pool of readily available anime writing talent, and all of these writers are as easily interchangeable as you appear to be arguing, then why is Okada being relied on as much as she is?

P.A works wanted to celebrate their 10th birthday with an original anime,this project would have happened regardless,

Companies don't always get to do exactly what they want to do. Key likely wanted KyoAni to be the animation studio to handle Little Busters! Well, it didn't happen. If P.A. Works had not found writing talent that they felt was up to the job of handling Hanasaku Iroha, perhaps they'd have settled for an adaptation work instead to celebrate their 10th birthday.

And while some Directors do the writing themselves, that doesn't necessarily mean that all Directors are comfortable with it.


Edit: And now it sounds like some of the people on the AKB0048 staff are pissed off with Okada, and for perfectly legit reasons. But in spite of some folks wanting her removed, she's not removed. If these writers were as easily interchangeable as you and TJR seem to be arguing, then why wasn't Okada removed from the AKB0048 staff? Why did Nagai stick with her for AnoHana after being highly critical of her original scrip? Maybe she's not as easily dispensable as you and TJR seem to think she is...

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

If there's a wide pool of readily available anime writing talent, and all of these writers are as easily interchangeable as you appear to be arguing, then why is Okada being relied on as much as she is?

Is she being relied on that much?

Rinne no lagrange,Symphogear,tsuritama,Eureka seven AO,Last Exile FAM,tamayura,penguin drum,Sacred Seven,Phi Brain,Star Driver,Senkō no Night Raid,Occult Academy,Sengoku Collection,Sora no Woto,Guilty Crown,Natsuiro Kiseki,Blood-C,Madoka,Tiger and Bunny,Saint Saya Omega,Dog Days didn't need Okada.

She's a writer with a lot of originals to her credit,but there's plenty of originals made without her.

Maybe if they give her a gundam show then i'd say they must have run out of other writers

edit: Maybe she wasn't removed because human feelings get involved and you don't want to hurt a friend,but for AKB0048,if she wasn't replacable would they even have considered it?

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

If there's a wide pool of readily available anime writing talent, and all of these writers are as easily interchangeable as you appear to be arguing, then why is Okada being relied on as much as she is?

I believe it has already been addressed. Why is J.C.STAFF relied on so much? How on earth did they get Little Busters?

Okada is a safe choice because she caters well to industry needs. She can appeal to otaku, write original scripts, manage deadlines, and accept a lot of work at once. She also has a reasonable track record. Put together, those are highly marketable characteristics to an industry with an insatiable hunger for output.

Her services are in demand, and you're right that the number of anime original writers is limited. However, this doesn't mean that

a) an anime original project is dead in the water without her participation
b) they don't have other candidates in mind if she declines
c) she was necessarily the first choice for every project
d) her availability is dictating broader trends, which have to do with insecurity over the viability of manga and light novel sources.

As totoum says, there are lots of anime original works being made now, most of which are written by different people.

Really, you're just speculating that Aniplex would have pushed forward with AnoHana even if Okada wasn't available to write that.

I never said that. Aniplex's strategy was to find successful teams and develop anime projects that played to their strengths. Dog Days grew out of Nanoha, while Ano Hana descended from Toradora.

My feeling is that if the AnoHana pitch (or any of the other ones they were working on around the same time) had fallen through during negotiations, they would've sought another group and developed a different show. Alternatively, if it was only Okada who didn't want to work on the project, Nagai and Tanaka could potentially have created another concept with someone else (and they did that for Geneon/GENCO).

Making original anime hasn't exactly been smooth sailing for Aniplex. For instance, there was a big shakeup on Occult Academy, yet they found a way to cope and make do.

Heck, we have a clear example of this with Little Busters! There's every reason to believe that Key wanted KyoAni to do it, but the desired KyoAni wasn't available, so Little Busters! was likely pushed back and pushed back until Key finally lost patience with KyoAni and hired JC Staff instead.

Key has no control over the industry, and it was actually Warner who made the pitch and hired J.C.STAFF.

From the industry perspective, there was never any delay. TBS and KyoAni had their own productions going on, so as far as they were concerned, Little Busters! was never part of their plans for 2010-2012.

As for Aniplex, their pitch failed, and they simply moved on. They didn't wait around to change Key's mind, and neither did anyone else whose offers had been rejected.

Why did Nagai stick with her for AnoHana after being highly critical of her original scrip?

It's an over-exaggeration. From what I understand, she presented her original proposal during the first meeting and her partners suggested that they focus on friendship. This happened before there any script was written, and there's no implication that she bore a grudge over their idea.

At any rate, Nagai, Tanaka, and Okada claim to be good friends who formed a strong bond (outside of work too) through collaboration.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I want to see this scenario unfold now though.

You sure? We don't have enough HP to tank this at all.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by TJR

Her services are in demand, and you're right that the number of anime original writers is limited.

And that's why I think Okada deserves some credit for being of real help to the recent rise of anime originals. She has provided a high-demand service to the anime industry that is also very beneficial to the anime world from a fan perspective, which is something that I'm not sure if you've considered enough in our discussions in this thread.

You argued that for Little Busters! there was no delay "from the industry perspective", but even if you're right, there absolutely was a delay from a fan's perspective, as there's little doubt that a Little Busters! anime would have been done years ago if KyoAni was up for doing it at the time. And I'm speaking primarily from a fan's perspective, as I'm a fan myself. As a fan, I think that the anime industry is better off by having more anime original works in recent years, and also as a fan, I recognize the contributions that Okada has made to that.

And there's a key point I made that I think you're side-stepping a bit: Sometimes entertainment projects (including anime ones) get held up for a bit when the desired talent (be it a specific animation studio, or maybe a specific writer) is unavailable. Key probably had its heart set on KyoAni, until Key finally gave up on KyoAni and turned to JC Staff, which may have held up Little Busters! for years (from a fan's perspective). Now, who's to say that P.A. Works didn't have its heart set on Okada for handling HSI? Okada has done a lot of work for P.A. Works (just like KyoAni has done a lot of work for Key) and Okada has been involved in the majority of P.A. Works anime original works.

Also, nobody here really knows what would have happened with AnoHana, or Hanasaku Iroha, if Okada wasn't available to write them. You don't know that, I don't know that, and totoum doesn't know that. It's at least conceivable that one or both of these shows may have not been made, and could have even been substituted with an adaptation work, without Okada's involvement. And the anime world may have been worse for it, imo.

So I don't think it's wrong to recognize the valuable role that Okada has played in the recent rise of anime original works.

[Dr. Casey]

Theory: AKB0048 is the best story Mari Okada has ever written

Discuss

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Theory: AKB0048 is the best story Mari Okada has ever written

Discuss

If you're gonna troll, at least say Black Rock Shooter or Fractal

On a humourous note, how does the Gen Urobuchi thread only have 2 pages of posts over the course of nearly a month, whilst the Mari Okada one has 3 pages in the course of less than a day .

[Dr. Casey]

I actually do love AKB0048 quite a bit. The warm, bold artwork and flashy concerts appeal to me, I think the series has a great sense of aesthetics and style. And maybe it's because Urobuchi Gen is less controversial; most people can agree that Gen is an awesome person with awesome stories, wheras Mari Okada's writing is kind of schizophrenic and all over the place. Mari Okada is an enigma, a puzzle that brings people together in a united effort to decrypt it.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

I actually do love AKB0048 quite a bit. The warm, bold artwork and flashy concerts appeal to me, I think the series has a great sense of aesthetics and style.

Initially, I thought it was terrible, but now over the course of the eps it's slowly being relegated to the "so bad it's good" category . I actually don't give a damn about idols but the idea of fusing magical girl elements, mechs and idols is extremely bizzare. Perhaps I'm liking it for the wrong reasons instead of "legit good" reasons (ala Aquarion EVOL) . Of course I still have my thresholds. Something that is as bad as Black Rock Shooter or Fractal needs to be killed... with fire!

And maybe it's because Urobuchi Gen is less controversial; most people can agree that Gen is an awesome person with awesome stories, wheras Mari Okada's writing is kind of schizophrenic and all over the place. Mari Okada is an enigma, a puzzle that brings people together in a united effort to decrypt it.

That makes sense. It's also a lot more entertaining to talk about someone who's flawed and has such drastic swings than someone who is consistently and universally considered good or bad.