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Old 2007-02-24, 16:33   Link #1201
iamandragon
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XD as expected from Archer-kun. Your understanding on Archer and Emiya Shirou is deep!
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Old 2007-02-24, 18:48   Link #1202
Myname
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The TYPE-MOON world is so deep...

About the 1-hander/2-hander sword thing, theres no real 1-handers or 2-handers, if you can wield it with one-hand (even if it weighs 10 tons), its a one-hander, if you can't and you need two-hands its a two hander. See Berserker's sword, if you compare the size of the blade to the wielder, it should obviously be a so called two-hander but since Berserker is crazy strong, he swings it with one hand.

Theres that plus the fact that Saber is a woman - weaker and well a sword hits harder if you swing it harder and you swing it harder with two hands.
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Old 2007-02-24, 20:13   Link #1203
iamandragon
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If what you say is correct, then caliburn is a four-handed sword...(I half want someone to scream 'yes' and agree with this statement actually...) A longsword is a two-handed sword, though it is always used in conjunction with a shield in duels during the middle ages.
In real life there are standards for different types of one-handed and two-handed sword...(e.g. a standard Claymore weights 2.5kg and 130cm).

as for saber being weaker---she's a heroic spirit--spirit has no weight(at least I think? There's no information on weight in the character information so I assume so). Since excalibur is part of the heroic spirit it should be weightless...

Girl power! Saber is not weaker at all...her strength is on par with beserker(Heaven's Feel route shows Saber fighting equally with Beserker) and even overwhelms Archer in the beginning of the story. She can swing her blade so fast and furious that Lancer is having difficulty keeping up with it. She is capable of breaking Shirou's bones with a toy sword(one of the bad ends in the game) Do I need so say more?

I think in order to determine the nature of beserker's blade we have to decrease the size of beserker into that of an ordinary human, then we decrease the size of his blade with the same scale. Then we can determine the 'relative size' of beserker's blade.
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Old 2007-02-26, 08:01   Link #1204
mlai
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Quote:
Identification - Definition of the Two-Handed Great Sword

To understand what we are discussing it is important to first have a working definition. The respected work, Swords and Hilt Weapons, offers this description of the weapon:

"The two-handed sword was a specialized and effective infantry weapon, and was recognized as such in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. Although large, measuring 60-70 in/150-175 cm overall, it was not as hefty as it looked, weighing something of the order of 5-8 lbs/2.3-3.6 kg. In the hands of the Swiss and German infantrymen it was lethal, and its use was considered as special skill, often meriting extra pay. Fifteenth-century examples usually have an expanded cruciform hilt, sometimes with side rings on one or both sides of the quillon block. This was the form which remained dominant in Italy during the sixteenth century, but in Germany a more flamboyant form developed. Two-handed swords typically have a generous ricasso to allow the blade to be safely gripped below the quillons and thus wielded more effectively at close quarters. Triangular or pointed projections, known as flukes, were added at the base of the ricasso to defend the hand." (Coe et al, p. 48)

[snip]

European sword making technologies throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance were quite capable of producing high-quality, lightweight, and flexible steel blades for cutting swords that could hold keen edges. These weapons were not intended to defeat heavy plate armor with powerful cuts but did evolve from those longswords that were developed for use against armors by thrusting rather than cutting. Handling real specimens of some of these enormous but beautiful weapons [such as seen in the three images to the right] is enlightening, for their size betrays their exceptional balance. It very quickly becomes clear they were intended for large fighting men to deliver not only powerful slashing blows but great stabbing attacks as well as pole-weapon-like techniques. Large as they were, they were not ridiculously heavy.

For more than a century two-handed greatswords were used less for fighting against armors and more for open battlefield where pike and halberd formations were combined with firearms. Accordingly, just as with its shorter single-hand cousins, the late 15th and early 16th century two-handed greatsword was not a crude excessively heavy bludgeoning weapon but a fairly agile and balanced weapon designed for close-combat in war and occasional duel.
There you go. 2-handed greatswords did exist as a classification, from the Middle Ages onward.
That said, Excalibur and Caliburn don't seem like 2-handed greatswords, which are HUGE. They span the height of a modern adult man, and Saber is only 5'1". Excalibur seems to be a longsword, which can be used with 1 or 2 hands, depending on the wielder. According to wiki, the blade of a longsword is about over 3', which sounds about right if you look at pics of Saber with sword.
Saber has to be weaker than an average knight, when she was alive. So she used 2 hands to compensate. That's how she learned to fight in life, that's how she'll fight in death. It doesn't matter how strong she became as a spirit.
A shinai (bamboo sword) is relatively harmless when used in slashing motions, but it can break bones if used expertly in thrusts. That's how Saber broke Shirou's ribs in the anime. I don't see why it's a game-ender though... he heals quickly enough.
Oh, as for where Saber puts her sword when not fighting... it seems Noble Phantasms exist in spirit form, and pops into the spirit's hands when he wills it. It's what confused me originally regarding Archer: he creates his weapons via tracing, not summoning a particular NP... I never caught on to that and therefore never had a clue who he really was.
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Old 2007-02-26, 14:39   Link #1205
iamandragon
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I see. Thanks for the information ^^

Ya I think the reason Saber uses both hands when fighting was because of her habbit from the past too...

Oh in the game when you go to the church for the first time and choose 'I am not going to participate in the Holy Grail War', you loose all your command mantras, and Saber saber will beat you to death with a shinai(the pictures shows lines of slashing motions, not trusting, by the way)

I beated up a guy with a solid, wooden sword before, all I could manage is to cause bruises all over his body and not a single bone of his is broken...
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Old 2007-02-26, 15:48   Link #1206
mlai
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Hmm, sounds like a humorous "bad end." I don't see why Saber would get angry and beat Shirou (to death) just because he forfeited, since she can always go find another Master. In fact it'd be easier on her, to have a more professional Master.

And I really don't see why she would use a shinai for that task, except to accentuate the humor.

So FSN isn't like those old Choose Your Own Adventure novels, where you have dozens of lengthy storylines? So you have 3 main branches, and the rest of the endings are just 1-paragraph (and often nonsensical/humorous) bad endings?

I used to cut the tall reedy weeds in the garden with my bokken (wooden sword). I wanted to feel like a kenshi. It doesn't take a big swing; Jpnese swordplay is all in the wrists (at least that's how I liked it). I wanted to see how little I can move my wooden sword and still cut the reeds.
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Old 2007-02-26, 17:36   Link #1207
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Nope, the bad ends are still long as hell. For the Saber beat Shirou to death bad end it lasted around 10 pages as far as I remember. And it's not funny at all.
This game has 2 good ends, 3 true ends and over 40 bad ends. Some bad ends really make you want to cry, as well...Enjoy.

I don't know much about visual novels. The only ones I have played so far are F/SN, tsukihime and Kanon. And they are all similar. The only thing is, the pictures in F/SN are moving and has much more energy(SFX, a lot, especially during battles) than the other 2 games.

As mentioned by Myname, girls are usually weaker than guys. And I never received proper swordsmanship training. But still, cutting grass and breaking bones are two completely different task...
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Old 2007-03-02, 12:44   Link #1208
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Ive never really seen the bit about marble phantasm only being able to create effects that can actually occur. Hell in Tsukihime arcueid uses marble phantasm to create blades out of thin air. Blades suddenly appearing out of thin air have a 0% chance of occuring.
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Old 2007-03-02, 20:33   Link #1209
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If you want 'blades to suddenly appear out of thin air' as a result of magic, you will need true magic. However, if you want the effect of 'blades appear', then you can make it possible by either buying a load of them with money---if you can do it without miracle, you can do it with normal magic.

True that arc did not make blades in Tsukihime. Her claws are already more deadly than blades...she won't need any blades to begin with. But if marble phantasm can summon a whole town, then blades shouldn't be hard right?
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Old 2007-03-10, 23:15   Link #1210
toru daito
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sorry to interrupt your discussion,just want to ask,when was Fate:the hollow axtaria anime released?i stilll couldnt find the anime..even the review on the internet
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Old 2007-03-11, 02:16   Link #1211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toru daito View Post
sorry to interrupt your discussion,just want to ask,when was Fate:the hollow axtaria anime released?i stilll couldnt find the anime..even the review on the internet
There is no Fate: Hollow Ataraxia anime.
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Old 2007-03-12, 03:59   Link #1212
NoSanninWa
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toru daito: In case you don't know. Ataraxia is a game, not an anime.
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Old 2007-03-12, 08:47   Link #1213
toru daito
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i see..so thats why i couldnt find that anime..
fate staynight anime is made based on the game right?
so is there any chance hollow axtaria will be made into anime too?
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Old 2007-03-12, 09:40   Link #1214
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no one knows,i rather want fate zero to be animated cos

Spoiler for fate zero:
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Old 2007-03-12, 13:27   Link #1215
mlai
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Fate Zero has a higher chance of becoming anime than Fate Hollow Ataraxia.
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Old 2007-03-24, 07:06   Link #1216
akira88
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I got a very noob question to ask:
In game it stated that King Athur is a girl, and yet she was hiding it from everyone, except her step father and the magician. Some people doubt that if the king is a girl, but then they only want a king who can lead them, so they didn't really concern about it.

my question is, how did she hide her identity while she only wear skirt?
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Old 2007-03-28, 06:47   Link #1217
mlai
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Because in Nasuverse Camelot, all the handsome knights are effeminate, have long hair, are voice acted by women, and wear ambiguous clothing.
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Old 2007-03-29, 07:57   Link #1218
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In addition, it isn't really that hard to disguise gender, as many people today demonstrate. And from my memories of Fate, there's some fun and wonderful mysticism bound up in drawing Caliburn that caused Arturia to be perceived as male, not female at all, possibly due to the whole "the king is a male" preconception.


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Old 2007-03-30, 18:31   Link #1219
Rahan
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Stupid question of the day :

Does Issei have any importance in the other scenarios of the game ? I mean, out of all the characters with more than 20 seconds of screening time in the anime, he and Taiga are the only one powerless and totally meaningless plotwise. Taiga is obviously there for comedic purpose (and because there is no good harem without a mature woman, I guess), but what about Issei ?

Most of his early apparitions were related to Shirou's trace abilities, so I thought he had figured out something. Then the action moved to the temple, so it became obvious to me he was involved, but nothing happened.
Also, Rin said she had detected another magician in school, but if Shinji didn't qualify as the one because of his lack of abilities, it should be the same for Soichiro, right ? So who was the last one ?
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Old 2007-03-30, 22:22   Link #1220
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Taiga actually is actually slightly more significant in the game, as she knew Shirou's father (somewhat). Oh, and she gets involved in stuff as well.

Issei's most prominent role is in the UBW scenario. There's actually a very good reason he doesn't say anything.

The only other active sorcerer in school is actually her sister, who I shall not name for spoiler purposes.
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