AnimeSuki Forums

Arachanox · 2009-12-25, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorahk

So taiwan and sakhalin (karafuto) are likely, but has anyone thought of korea? korea would have been under Japanese rule at this time.

"The two who are close" meaning North and South Korea? He would have been born in Korea while it was unified under Japanese rule, but the epitaph was likely written much later when it was split in half.

Kurizu204 · 2009-12-25, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arachanox

"The two who are close" meaning North and South Korea? He would have been born in Korea while it was unified under Japanese rule, but the epitaph was likely written much later when it was split in half.

that a interesting idea.

Arachanox · 2009-12-25, 01:21

Furthermore, the shore could refer to the Demilitarized Zone, and if so,

Quote:

Tae Sung Dong and Kijong-dong were the only villages allowed by the armistice committee to remain within the boundaries of the DMZ.

These could be the 'village' and therefore the DMZ is the 'shore the two will tell you of'. Since solving the epitaph somewhat requires an atlas, and the average Japanese person doesn't know about Korean villages and such, this might work. Don't know if this goes anywhere, but I think it's interesting. I'll keep thinking.

edit: The war which is referred to have destroyed Kinzo's homeland may not be World War II after all, but rather the Korean War. It is a possibility.

Dlanor A. Knox · 2009-12-25, 07:31

mmm, so now we got 3 countries wich are possible to be Kinzo's homeland. Japan, Taiwan & Korea.... Intreseting....

Jan-Poo · 2009-12-25, 09:05

Taiwan, not Vietnam ^^;

BTW despite Taiwan, Kinzo's involvement with Korea has been hinted enough. Since it is said that Kinzo made his fortune thanx to the Korean war and his contacts within the U.S. military

zorahk · 2009-12-25, 16:16

Well, the reason I'm thinking Korea is because it's much more well known and controversial as a Japanese colony, plus it was a Japanese colony for much longer than say Taiwan.

Arachanox · 2009-12-25, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorahk

Well, the reason I'm thinking Korea is because it's much more well known and controversial as a Japanese colony, plus it was a Japanese colony for much longer than say Taiwan.

I agree that at first glance, I feel that Korea is a better bet than Taiwan (crazy theories not withstanding).

zorahk · 2009-12-26, 15:42

I just thought of something:

What if Kinzo's hometown is 平壌　(heijou) aka Pyongyang?
The Taedong river runs through central Pyongyang. (sweetfish river)
Heijou when romanized is 6 letters, but へいじょう is five (eva's confusion)

Pyongyang was very Japanese-ified during the occupation, but it was *completely* leveled during the Korean War.

Falsetto · 2009-12-27, 17:35

The Kuril Islands have had a dispute for who got sovereignty, Japan or Russia. There are two, twin volcanic islands called Chirpoy and Brat Chirpoev, and they have the kanji for village in there Japanese names. (知理保以島) and (知理保以南島)
Of course, I don't think these island are very likely to be the village. ^^;

zorahk · 2009-12-27, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falsetto

The Kuril Islands have had a dispute for who got sovereignty, Japan or Russia. There are two, twin volcanic islands called Chirpoy and Brat Chirpoev, and they have the kanji for village in there Japanese names. (知理保以島) and (知理保以南島)
Of course, I don't think these island are very likely to be the village. ^^;

kinzo's homeland is a place which was destroyed in a war.

neither of these places were destroyed.

Arachanox · 2009-12-27, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorahk

I just thought of something:

What if Kinzo's hometown is 平壌　(heijou) aka Pyongyang?
The Taedong river runs through central Pyongyang. (sweetfish river)
Heijou when romanized is 6 letters, but へいじょう is five (eva's confusion)

Pyongyang was very Japanese-ified during the occupation, but it was *completely* leveled during the Korean War.

I like this possibility a lot. However, whenever someone suggests an actual river for the 'sweetfish river', it bothers me. This is because other-Eva told Eva to think of something 'like a river', which implies that the actual river is not a flowing-water type of river. I'm not denying it, I'm just saying that I think the river is not an actual river.

zorahk · 2009-12-27, 21:19

ryukishi himself said that the game is full of red herrings though so there's no way to know what's real and what isnt

Jan-Poo · 2009-12-27, 21:28

Such kind of reasoning is not good. Any kind of reasoning should be based on something. If that something happens to be false you could still claim that your reasoning were correct based on those premises. But if you don't base your reasonings on anything, your attempts will be comparable to shooting in the dark, if you get a hit it will be just plain luck.

The only way to have fruitful approach to solving a riddle is to trust the hints are correct. If they are false, then failing wasn't your fault. If they are correct and you get the answer then honors go to you. If you are just guessing without looking at hints or arbitrarily deciding which is right and which is wrong, your reasoning won't be considered valid and in the remote case you guess it right it will be just considered luck not merit.

That being said I can state that:

- the river is not a river and it isn't directly related to sweetfishes. However he river is something that can be "seen" by looking into an atlas. Somehow the river must "run through" the homeland.

And now that I'm at it:

- The "homeland" is a real place where Kinzo used to live as a boy and all of his sons know well what kind of place that was. It is a place that it is "far away" from the Tokyo district, as it has been hinted in many ways, though it isn't possible to determine how much away it is, I think it is safe to assume that it isn't in the Kanto region. We know that Eva went there in a vacation, but the landscape has totally changed since that place has been caught up in the war.

- The key must be 6 letters long, but there must be a different reading from a japanese perspective. In other words the original reading isn't 6 letters, but it can changed in a way that becomes 6 letters. There is a very high probability that the letters of the key are "romaji" given Kinzo's love for western culture.

Lastly:

Finding the key alone bears no meaning. In order to gets into something it is necessary to understand what is the "starting sentence". In other words a key is completely useless if you don't know what door it opens. There is a very wide belief that this door might be "quadrillion", though it isn't sure, this is a starting point with some valid argument behind it. Any theory should provide a key that fits into "quadrillion" or into an equivalent likely starting sentence.

zorahk · 2009-12-28, 00:38

So did you ignore the posts before entirely?

the DMZ could be the non-river river if korea was his "hometown"

heijou is five kana but SIX letters when converted into romaji.

korea was completely leveled during the korean war.

matteas · 2009-12-28, 06:28

Let's say Kinzou's hometown really is Pyongyang. If we believe that, what can we get by following the next lines of epitaph? I have done some small research and found a possible lead.

"The sweetfish river" : I believe it's not an actual river. After all, Evatrice told Eva to think about something that resembles a river. As Jan-Poo said, it must be possible to see it in an atlas. If we suppose that Eva didn't look in any specialized atlas, for example an atlas of sewage system, the amount of possible "rivers" is not very big. What "lines" can you find in any atlas? Roads, railways, rivers (but we've ruled them out), boundaries, oil and gas pipelines, and then maybe other transport such as metro lines and trams, depends on the scale of the map.
There are three highways in North Korea. One of which leads to a port town Wonsan. Even though I doubt it was a highway in 1986, it probably was one of the arterial roads in N.Korea. And here comes the interesting point. Wonsan is administratively divided into 40 dongs(洞) and 15 ri(里). So we have the "village" (里). But then I'm clueless about the shore part. An old Japanese map of Korea might help though.

Jan-Poo · 2009-12-28, 15:24

I depends how old it is. The book Eva is looking at is probably not very old. At the very least it can't be older than the Mansion itself.
The books in the guesthouse weren't important books, so that atlas could have been as well a book used by Rosa or Rudolf during the time they were still school students.

At any rate it isn't a book that could plausibly tell you how the vietnam or any region was at the time Kinzo was a boy.

Quote:

So did you ignore the posts before entirely?

the DMZ could be the non-river river if korea was his "hometown"

heijou is five kana but SIX letters when converted into romaji.

korea was completely leveled during the korean war.

The DMZ is not a river so it fits with the hints. But what is heijou?

Anyway as I said we already have like a thousands possible "keys" I've thought up a dozen myself. So just seeing a key that can possibly fits in the first part of the epitaph doesn't really catches my attention anymore. Any new theory is as good as the previous to me.

However a theory that gets past the "finding the key" portion and goes down till solving all the twilight does get my attention, because there are very few of them. and as I know of only two clearly try to respect the hints that have been given.

Arachanox · 2009-12-28, 15:27

After reading EP5, I can say that I still have a lot more reasoning to do, and that Korea is probably as Jan says - one of endless possibilities. Trying to find a six lettered place (in Japanese or in English) and working from there is a pipe dream.

zorahk · 2009-12-28, 17:47

Look, it works like this:

Pyongyang is written in hancha as 平壌
This is read in Korean as Pyongyang or in Japanese as Heijou (Heijou is the official Japanese name for Pyongyang, it is NOT written in katakana)
Heijou is へいじょう so five kana letters.
When changed to romaji, it is H E I J O U or SIX LETTERS.

Jan-Poo · 2009-12-28, 19:54

Well, why pyongyang of all the possible Korean cities?

Kiyoji Haruki · 2009-12-28, 21:03

Actually I have some crazy theory, and I really don't think it's correct, but anyway there it goes.
They really like to say about the Great Kanto Earthquake, so why not look at this region.
The epitaph says about a river (kawa), actually there are quite a few cities, but one has got my attention, Shibukawa, it is known as "Japan's bellybutton".
Where did we see bellybutton....bellybutton...oh yeah, Eva-Beatrice and her catchphrase "Why don't you eat your bellybutton and die", really intersting isn't it?
So, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibukawa,_Gunma, what do we find "downstream" (south)?A village: more exactly Shinto Village (榛東村).
Well, but you ask me: "it doesn't have 6 characters", the same thing happened to Eva, and we actually reach しんとうむら.

Well that's it, I didn't try yet to continue this theory.Feel free to criticize and to help with the rest of the epitaph.

ps:I'd like to state that I don't know japanese, all of this was made with the help of some conversors and translators, so, sorry about the mistakes and if someone has already posted something similar.

2009-12-25, 07:31	Link #244
Dlanor A. Knox Crazy but OK xP Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Netherlands Age: 31	mmm, so now we got 3 countries wich are possible to be Kinzo's homeland. Japan, Taiwan & Korea.... Intreseting.... Last edited by Dlanor A. Knox; 2009-12-25 at 16:21. Reason: wrote Vietnam instead of Taiwan xD :heh:

2009-12-25, 09:05	Link #245
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Taiwan, not Vietnam ^^; BTW despite Taiwan, Kinzo's involvement with Korea has been hinted enough. Since it is said that Kinzo made his fortune thanx to the Korean war and his contacts within the U.S. military __________________

2009-12-27, 21:28	Link #253
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Such kind of reasoning is not good. Any kind of reasoning should be based on something. If that something happens to be false you could still claim that your reasoning were correct based on those premises. But if you don't base your reasonings on anything, your attempts will be comparable to shooting in the dark, if you get a hit it will be just plain luck. The only way to have fruitful approach to solving a riddle is to trust the hints are correct. If they are false, then failing wasn't your fault. If they are correct and you get the answer then honors go to you. If you are just guessing without looking at hints or arbitrarily deciding which is right and which is wrong, your reasoning won't be considered valid and in the remote case you guess it right it will be just considered luck not merit. That being said I can state that: - the river is not a river and it isn't directly related to sweetfishes. However he river is something that can be "seen" by looking into an atlas. Somehow the river must "run through" the homeland. And now that I'm at it: - The "homeland" is a real place where Kinzo used to live as a boy and all of his sons know well what kind of place that was. It is a place that it is "far away" from the Tokyo district, as it has been hinted in many ways, though it isn't possible to determine how much away it is, I think it is safe to assume that it isn't in the Kanto region. We know that Eva went there in a vacation, but the landscape has totally changed since that place has been caught up in the war. - The key must be 6 letters long, but there must be a different reading from a japanese perspective. In other words the original reading isn't 6 letters, but it can changed in a way that becomes 6 letters. There is a very high probability that the letters of the key are "romaji" given Kinzo's love for western culture. Lastly: Finding the key alone bears no meaning. In order to gets into something it is necessary to understand what is the "starting sentence". In other words a key is completely useless if you don't know what door it opens. There is a very wide belief that this door might be "quadrillion", though it isn't sure, this is a starting point with some valid argument behind it. Any theory should provide a key that fits into "quadrillion" or into an equivalent likely starting sentence. __________________

2009-12-28, 19:54	Link #259
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Well, why pyongyang of all the possible Korean cities? __________________

2009-12-25, 16:16	Link #246
zorahk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Well, the reason I'm thinking Korea is because it's much more well known and controversial as a Japanese colony, plus it was a Japanese colony for much longer than say Taiwan.

2009-12-26, 15:42	Link #248
zorahk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	I just thought of something: What if Kinzo's hometown is 平壌　(heijou) aka Pyongyang? The Taedong river runs through central Pyongyang. (sweetfish river) Heijou when romanized is 6 letters, but へいじょう is five (eva's confusion) Pyongyang was very Japanese-ified during the occupation, but it was completely leveled during the Korean War.

2009-12-27, 17:35	Link #249
Falsetto Member Join Date: Dec 2009	The Kuril Islands have had a dispute for who got sovereignty, Japan or Russia. There are two, twin volcanic islands called Chirpoy and Brat Chirpoev, and they have the kanji for village in there Japanese names. (知理保以島) and (知理保以南島) Of course, I don't think these island are very likely to be the village. ^^;

2009-12-27, 21:19	Link #252
zorahk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	ryukishi himself said that the game is full of red herrings though so there's no way to know what's real and what isnt

2009-12-28, 00:38	Link #254
zorahk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	So did you ignore the posts before entirely? the DMZ could be the non-river river if korea was his "hometown" heijou is five kana but SIX letters when converted into romaji. korea was completely leveled during the korean war.

2009-12-28, 06:28	Link #255
matteas Member Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Czech Republic Age: 32	Let's say Kinzou's hometown really is Pyongyang. If we believe that, what can we get by following the next lines of epitaph? I have done some small research and found a possible lead. "The sweetfish river" : I believe it's not an actual river. After all, Evatrice told Eva to think about something that resembles a river. As Jan-Poo said, it must be possible to see it in an atlas. If we suppose that Eva didn't look in any specialized atlas, for example an atlas of sewage system, the amount of possible "rivers" is not very big. What "lines" can you find in any atlas? Roads, railways, rivers (but we've ruled them out), boundaries, oil and gas pipelines, and then maybe other transport such as metro lines and trams, depends on the scale of the map. There are three highways in North Korea. One of which leads to a port town Wonsan. Even though I doubt it was a highway in 1986, it probably was one of the arterial roads in N.Korea. And here comes the interesting point. Wonsan is administratively divided into 40 dongs(洞) and 15 ri(里). So we have the "village" (里). But then I'm clueless about the shore part. An old Japanese map of Korea might help though.

2009-12-28, 15:27	Link #257
Arachanox Trust the red. Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Guest House	After reading EP5, I can say that I still have a lot more reasoning to do, and that Korea is probably as Jan says - one of endless possibilities. Trying to find a six lettered place (in Japanese or in English) and working from there is a pipe dream.

2009-12-28, 17:47	Link #258
zorahk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Look, it works like this: Pyongyang is written in hancha as 平壌 This is read in Korean as Pyongyang or in Japanese as Heijou (Heijou is the official Japanese name for Pyongyang, it is NOT written in katakana) Heijou is へいじょう so five kana letters. When changed to romaji, it is H E I J O U or SIX LETTERS.

2009-12-28, 21:03	Link #260
Kiyoji Haruki Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Brazil	Actually I have some crazy theory, and I really don't think it's correct, but anyway there it goes. They really like to say about the Great Kanto Earthquake, so why not look at this region. The epitaph says about a river (kawa), actually there are quite a few cities, but one has got my attention, Shibukawa, it is known as "Japan's bellybutton". Where did we see bellybutton....bellybutton...oh yeah, Eva-Beatrice and her catchphrase "Why don't you eat your bellybutton and die", really intersting isn't it? So, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibukawa,_Gunma, what do we find "downstream" (south)?A village: more exactly Shinto Village (榛東村). Well, but you ask me: "it doesn't have 6 characters", the same thing happened to Eva, and we actually reach しんとうむら. Well that's it, I didn't try yet to continue this theory.Feel free to criticize and to help with the rest of the epitaph. ps:I'd like to state that I don't know japanese, all of this was made with the help of some conversors and translators, so, sorry about the mistakes and if someone has already posted something similar.