Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kagayaki

*snip*

There's a few things we could probably nitpick over, but at this point, it's perhaps best if we just agree to disagree (also, don't worry about the hyperbole/strawman argument thing - I've been guilty of that before myself).

However, there's a couple final things I want to touch on:

1. I think that its generally easier to have a main character (like Charlie Brown) be well-liked and sympathetic in spite of failing most/all of the time than it is to have a secondary character (like Enishi) be like that. What helps Charlie Brown a lot is that we see a lot of things from his perspective, from his monologues, with him at the center of the broader narrative. So we naturally identify with him, and can easily get behind him.

But I think that with a secondary character (like Enishi), such a character usually needs to come across as "cool" or "interesting" or "attractive/admirable" in some fashion in order to earn viewer attention, respect, and likability. Main characters get a kind of "default viewer focus" that secondary characters often need to earn before they get it. A guy that fails all the time is not inherently interesting unless we get to spend a lot of time seeing how that impacts him, and seeing how he handles that. And such a guy will generally not come off as "cool" or "attractive/admirable".


2. Also, a lot of my desire for Enishi to succeed goes back to what Archon wrote in his last post:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

But that's not the thing here. It's not like I was expecting some grand realization on Einshi's part. I just wish this show would stop humiliating its characters. It's funny sometimes, but it's getting stale.

My point is, if you're going for filler, at least make it entertaining and don't degrade your characters.

He (Enishi) was indeed sympathetic in the last episode, for a bit, but the payoff was pretty null.

I totally agree with Archon on all these points, and at an emotional level, they nicely sum up why I wanted Enishi and Takako to succeed. I just don't think it's a coincidence that I (also) started to find Enishi increasingly sympathetic/likable when he started to show signs of genuine possible success (in Episode 16).


Edit: On a tangental issue, one thing I'm going to say now is that I think Enishi was made to fail in this two-part arc in order to help pave the way for Satsuki and/or Ohana eventually taking over the Inn (that's a series speculation on my part). In other words, and to use Archon's love of pro wrestling analogies, Enishi was made to lose in order to put Satsuki and/or Ohana "over". I can actually kind of understand why Okada would want to do that, but as for myself, I think it's a bit excessive. I think that most viewers already felt that Enishi wasn't cut out for running the Inn, and we didn't really need to seem him fail hugely yet again in order to hammer that point home.

However, it may be fair to say that he wasn't allowed to succeed since that would conflict with plans that Okada may have for Statsuki and/or Ohana, and if that's the case, well, a secondary character isn't more important than the main plot, I have to admit.

[Grey]

The character development of Takako was pretty weak, so the way she acted felt a bit weird. But I was still entertained even if this episode was really cheesy.

I agree that Enishi's failure made it feel like there wasn't much development though. I wonder if the financial loss will be a plot hook for later. There might have been some hints but maybe it was just a red herring.

[revive4563]

Those 2 episodes about movie were really boring...Enishi and Takako should be a piece of crowd.

If there were no Minko and Yuina, I wouldn't continue this series. So I realized that I'm continuing this series because of Moe, after all.

[Pengu]

Enichi's incompetence is just staggering.
No wonder Sui once in a while still mentions Satsuki as the prefered heir to the inn.
Enichi is just plain stupid doing everything Takako does or wishes like a dog.
Not only that she is an awful woman to boot, way worse than Satsuki.
No will of his own and this is the person to head the inn in the future?
He just wasted a ton of money in a business doing poorly. If he wasn't family he would be out on his *** fast.
And no, Yuina hasn't really changed at all as she is still a rich daughter who never lifts a finger, still flimsy, with a little bit more compassion now. That is all.