Dating

[Kafriel]

Simple.

Nothing is simple while dating I think that the most important part is knowing who you're dealing with. As you and Kaijo said, there are people who view virtues as looming vice and try not to be fooled by superficial behavior. I, on the other hand, think that it depends on that person's past experience with others, for example getting hurt too many times will definitely lead to that sort of thinking. Still, if someone's living in a society of mild theater where people can be themselves for a while, an honest, helpful person is seen in good light. To give an example: I go on a date with my hot actress-wannabe gf, and I take her to a fancy restaurant. Everything goes fine, she was smiling, said she liked the food and the service, and found me smart, interesting and funny (girls get smart/pretty/funny, the combination is usually the same though:P). So anyway, as I am driving her back, she starts nagging about the wine definitely not being a Chambernet '67, the waiter kept looking at her body, the music was awful and the food was just as bad. I'll feel very bad about it because she lied to me at first, and when she goes home she tells her sister that she doesn't find me as good as she let me believe. Then her sister confides in me and I break up with the girl. If the sister is the honest type who would tell me she doesn't like the place and wants to go for a walk in the park, I'd date her instead and be happier than average, because of the security her honesty provides.
That was the happy ending...

Spoiler for BAD ending, maybe too dark for this time in the morning:

It turns out that the sister knew I'd break up with the girl, so she lured me to date her so that she could enjoy my happiness, gifts, free rides, etc. and actually hated me deep inside but never let anyone know. One day I got early off work and came back home only to catch her in the sheets with the mailman, who was her ex and knew about all this. She countered my puny rage (because I hadn't been angry at her before) with all her malice, which broke me down emotionally, and she ended up telling me never to go near her again.

Despite being able to think like that, I like to believe that there are purely honest people in the world, even if I don't happen to come across any~

P.S: the above situations are examples, any stunning resemblance to real-life situations is purely coincidental, this is a work of fiction!

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

LOL. If it is that easy describing people from scratch in real life, there wouldn't be a need for references.

I can build a wall of text about every girl I meet IRL, but don't you think it is easier to reference her to an anime character or something? I primarily think it is because I don't watch anything else other than anime and documentaries.

No, cause these terms are specialised terms for one main genre of anime, extracting it from the Japanese language.
That's incredibly limited and as I've seen, you've made a few more character references that just totally throws me off your post, since I can't relate.
If a girl's so evil that she's a bitch, then she's a bitch.
No use being polite if she's horrible.
If you wanted to describe someone with a crazy temper:
She has a fierce temper, she's incredibly fiery.
Her words cut like sharp knives. She's ruthless.
You know... the other vocab in the English language which is universally applicable.

And yes, a walrus is a bad example, lol. If they wanna reference an animal for temper than 'hellcat' is fine enough (since they hiss)
I'd tell the guy to work on his similes more or don't use them

We are all presenting our views based on our experiences in each area. I had quite a number of bad ones here (almost all), but that doesn't mean I don't give a benefit of doubt. If I did, I wouldn't be posting here and just retain my jaded view of BGRs.

Personally I am a person who likes sharing views and getting responses (excluding anon negreps).

And what’s a BGR? *sighs*
It's hard to see or imagine you'd give a girl a chance without running some kinda "anime reference index" in your brain to sum her up before continuing to communicate with her.
In other words, try not to cross reference girls and women who aren't designed by people's imaginations so much that it becomes an unconscious habit?

If I already pointed out that IRL tsunderes are characteristically cute while other posters view them as bitches, I don't think it would count as me being really a nihilist right?

Not just girls that you categorise as "tsunderes" that I'm referring to.
It's your constant use of the anime references and favouring the "2D" world to some degree in your posts over the last month or so.
As you said, you have had some bad offline experiences unfortunately, so there isn’t much to be positive in that side of things, but at least try to be neutral and take a women/girl for who she is from day 1 without mentally glancing to some kinda anime reference?

Is just my two pence to you. As it is, I cannot follow those anime terms, so I'll remain on my lurking seat and skip over some posts.
Should someone want some advice for a real life situation, I'll poke my head back in again.

[yoropa]

I personally find it demeaning to categorize people as anime characters, regardless of genders. I only know one person whom I equate to an anime character solely because she lacks any sort of emotional depth or emotional control to the point that she acts cartoonish. That, and being into anime she tries to imitate the characters to such an extent that it's actually interfered with her original personality, and as such she is a complete social wreck who literally cannot even begin to fathom the concept that people may have different opinions than her on various matters. In other words, she completely shut herself away from the realm of cognitive reality.

Earlier in the thread I said I wanted somebody whose interests are dramatically different than my own. Now you know why. I cannot handle people who are unstable like she is, and in my experience all serious anime/video game fans I have met have this same exact problem. I need somebody who has some form of internal physiological support for themselves, or at least some ability to intelligently convey internal problems and the willingness to listen to advice given in order to fix said problems.

And needless to say, thanks to that being one of my biggest standards, I have yet to find anybody I like.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Mystique

<snip>

Is just my two pence to you. As it is, I cannot follow those anime terms, so I'll remain on my lurking seat and skip over some posts.
Should someone want some advice for a real life situation, I'll poke my head back in again.

THEN SAY SO! And there I was thinking if I had offended you in some way, or that you are a world's no. 1 princess with an upturned nose.

Regarding the favouritism of 2D to 3D, apparently it is a result of staying at home too much as I need to save before I start school (and I just left the army recently). Practically most of my friends are gone, mostly overseas studying or dropped out of my grid, so I have to slowly rebuild that network. Meanwhile, I will stay at home and watch anime all day and keep my expenditure to the minimum.

No, cause these terms are specialised terms for one main genre of anime, extracting it from the Japanese language.
That's incredibly limited and as I've seen, you've made a few more character references that just totally throws me off your post, since I can't relate.
If a girl's so evil that she's a bitch, then she's a bitch.
No use being polite if she's horrible.
If you wanted to describe someone with a crazy temper:
She has a fierce temper, she's incredibly fiery.
Her words cut like sharp knives. She's ruthless.
You know... the other vocab in the English language which is universally applicable.

And yes, a walrus is a bad example, lol. If they wanna reference an animal for temper than 'hellcat' is fine enough (since they hiss)
I'd tell the guy to work on his similes more or don't use them

As much as English language permits, I do believe in keeping sentences as short as possible (which I apparently start to fail badly at with my WoTs). And regarding your definition of bitches, that is from your perspective, not mine.

The usage of imagery is different from one to another, similarly people would think of different first words to describe a pizza. It all depends on our familiarity, and what we can associate and reference with the closest. My reply to that "working with the similes" thing is that suggestion is "as objective as a mission plan". Do you understand? Probably not, and that is because we think differently, so it is either we ask, or we infer if we really don't know what the other party is pointing at.

And clarifying a few things :

BGR - Boy-Girl relationship
Tsundere - A girl who has a combative attitude toward others but is also kind on the inside.

Originally Posted by yoropa

I personally find it demeaning to categorize people as anime characters, regardless of genders. I only know one person whom I equate to an anime character solely because she lacks any sort of emotional depth or emotional control to the point that she acts cartoonish. That, and being into anime she tries to imitate the characters to such an extent that it's actually interfered with her original personality, and as such she is a complete social wreck who literally cannot even begin to fathom the concept that people may have different opinions than her on various matters. In other words, she completely shut herself away from the realm of cognitive reality.

I always laugh when people talk about themselves being "realistic". Applying simple logic, realism is just something each of us create because our perspectives are different. And because we see things differently, our opinions differ.

That is the underlying intention of the idiom "never judge a book by its cover". As much as we can categorise them and diversify everyone, we still have to accept people for who they are, though it is a difficult process I am still having problem practicing because of our mental filters and personal bias.

So, it isn't demeaning to find people who categorise others as anime characters demeaning?

[yoropa]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

I always laugh when people talk about themselves being "realistic". Applying simple logic, realism is just something each of us create because our perspectives are different. And because we see things differently, our opinions differ.

That is the underlying intention of the idiom "never judge a book by its cover". As much as we can categorise them and diversify everyone, we still have to accept people for who they are, though it is a difficult process I am still having problem practicing because of our mental filters and personal bias.

So, it isn't demeaning to find people who categorise others as anime characters demeaning?

To your first paragraph, there is a generally accepted reality. It is ignorant to think otherwise. To your second paragraph, I accept who she is. Whether or not I like it is something completely different. I've gone beyond the cover and I know the full story. To your final sentence, I never said I found you or the people who do this demeaning; I find the act of doing this demeaning to whomever gets categorized this way.

I don't think it's right to look at somebody and say "You're so tsundere." I'd rather you just say "You sometimes act rude and direct, but I know inside you're a nice person." The latter has far more depth, meaning, and emotion than the former.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

THEN SAY SO! And there I was thinking if I had offended you in some way, or that you are a world's no. 1 princess with an upturned nose.

It's generally helpful to avoid the use of specialized terms. The more general and descriptive your language, the more likely it will be understood. I strive to be understood, so I try to keep my language at a base level; I also find shortening things to save a few keystrokes as... unnecessary. Thus, I'd say guy/girl instead of BGR. I don't want to have to try and translate what someone is saying based on shorthand, so I try to keep my posts as clear as possible.

Regarding the favouritism of 2D to 3D, apparently it is a result of staying at home too much as I need to save before I start school (and I just left the army recently). Practically most of my friends are gone, mostly overseas studying or dropped out of my grid, so I have to slowly rebuild that network. Meanwhile, I will stay at home and watch anime all day and keep my expenditure to the minimum.

Then you really do need to get out more. There's nothing wrong with 2D, but real people are 3D.. well, they have many more dimensions than simply 3. Thus, labels are mostly inadequate, although they can do for some small parts of us. I generally shun people now, but I recognize they are more complex than simple terms can do, so I strive to get to know where they are coming from.

To keep it somewhat on topic, this especially goes for those I would date. I enjoy the straight-forward blunt and honest nature, and to be able to do that in return. People are complex creatures, and it takes time to really get to know someone; though it's perfectly fine to admit interest. Misunderstandings are the cause of so many arguments, fights, and disagreements; that's why I prefer to be honest and try to communicate well at all costs, to avoid those.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by yoropa

I don't think it's right to look at somebody and say "You're so tsundere." I'd rather you just say "You sometimes act rude and direct, but I know inside you're a nice person." The latter has far more depth, meaning, and emotion than the former.

I think you're making a mistake in assuming that Saintess intended for it to carry, "depth, meaning and emotion". Nobody I've met uses terms like tsundere without intending it to be teasing or humourous. Ditto for the occasions when I've told my girlfriend she's "moe".

[yoropa]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I think you're making a mistake in assuming that Saintess intended for it to carry, "depth, meaning and emotion". Nobody I've met uses terms like tsundere without intending it to be teasing or humourous. Ditto for the occasions when I've told my girlfriend she's "moe".

Of course I'm fine with it in jest. I've sadly seen people who have gone way overboard with these terms to the point that they fall in love with an archetype and not a person. And thus you end up with people marrying their pillows and DS video games and other stuff like that...

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by yoropa

Of course I'm fine with it in jest. I've sadly seen people who have gone way overboard with these terms to the point that they fall in love with an archetype and not a person. And thus you end up with people marrying their pillows and DS video games and other stuff like that...

As sad as the last few lines sound, it's a person's choice to marry what they marry; and clearly, at least on some level, they seem to be extremely happy about it and genuinely have no regrets. Again, like I mentioned before, I usually tend to use anime terms for girls because they sound more polite than the real life terms I'd use in their place.

[Ricky Controversy]

I'm sorry, but the terminology debate is rather ridiculous. It's a basic principle that in contexts where people can reasonably be expected to have a mutual understanding of certain terms--as in the case of this forum--that more concise is better. If one says 'tsundere' instead of 'You sometimes act rude and direct, but I know inside you're a nice person,' that doesn't convey any less meaning. To say that the longer explanation has more depth or value is an out and out falsehood, linguistically speaking.

Now, it gets in the way if you abuse the term, as with any highly specific word, or if you use it outside of a context where you have reason to believe people will get it, but please, don't generalize about specific terminology being inferior. They aren't necessarily demeaning either. These words are from a lexicon that pertains to fiction, but there are many words in every language that are coined in fiction and come into the vernacular, and we do not consider it demeaning to use them. No one considers it crude to use the term quixotic, for example.

I can see that mostly, people are fielding this reaction because they feel like use of anime terminology necessarily means limiting, in one's mind, a person to that archetype and nothing more...but whether that's taking place or not has to be done on a case-by-case basis. I said, for instance, that Girl A is a tsundere. And she is. She is possessed of tsundere characteristics. But when was such a term defined as 'to the exclusion of any other relevant traits'? When you say someone is energetic, do you mean that's the only thing they are? Why should anime terms be seen that way?

Back on topic some, the whole situation has dissolved completely over here. Girl A's behavior immediately went down the drain after the first two, three days of improvement. At this point, I'm completely resigning from trying to be there for her. It only gets my hand bitten. If she needs me, she can tough it up and come looking for me and show me a measure of due respect, but otherwise I have given forth all the effort I can over these past years. Of course, there are a few people who have caught my eye...but there are various reasons why none of them are viable pursuits.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

Now, it gets in the way if you abuse the term, as with any highly specific word, or if you use it outside of a context where you have reason to believe people will get it, but please, don't generalize about specific terminology being inferior. They aren't necessarily demeaning either. These words are from a lexicon that pertains to fiction, but there are many words in every language that are coined in fiction and come into the vernacular, and we do not consider it demeaning to use them. No one considers it crude to use the term quixotic, for example.

The one downside I see to describing someone as a tsundere is that for many people it conjours up images of some girl chewing you out in a shirl voice for something really minor.

Of course, if the person being described actually is like that, then as Radiant says... it's better than some other choices.

[Haruka_Kitten]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

Back on topic some, the whole situation has dissolved completely over here. Girl A's behavior immediately went down the drain after the first two, three days of improvement. At this point, I'm completely resigning from trying to be there for her. It only gets my hand bitten. If she needs me, she can tough it up and come looking for me and show me a measure of due respect, but otherwise I have given forth all the effort I can over these past years. Of course, there are a few people who have caught my eye...but there are various reasons why none of them are viable pursuits.

Without....pertaining to the old adage "I told you so," I think one as...well...inexperienced as me can say there will be no perfect person. The ideology of that special someone is merely an illusion. For someone to be perfect, they would have to be forever constant, and stay by your side no matter what (even if that may mean you one day make the biggest mistake in your life).

I understand that person, A(nna) (I'll give her a name for my benefit), is a bit strong-headed, even for you. Personally, I couldn't give you any more advice as I have been out of the dating thing for close to 5 weeks. Maybe someone over here is able to lend a helping hand?

[Samari]

Tsundere?

Please people, this isn't anime. This is reality. Put down the manga.

[Seitsuki]

And since when is art wholly separate from reality?
..that pic..
IT'S A TRAP! (sorry couldn't resist)

[Samari]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

And since when is art wholly separate from reality?
..that pic..
IT'S A TRAP! (sorry couldn't resist)

This has nothing to do with art and it's relation to reality.

Unless you consider adopting terms from anime, manga, and Bishojo games an art form.

I'm not sure where you're from, but around here in the common setting you use that term in a social context you're probably going to have to explain what it means every single time. People that are pretty much into anime, manga, whatever are probably gonna be the only ones familiar with that terminology. Probably won't come across that many in the United States. Just saying.

[Kafriel]

These are still mainly anime forums, and most of the users are in their teen years, so using such terms makes it a lot easier for them to describe various personalities, however superficial.

When you say someone is energetic, do you mean that's the only thing they are? Why should anime terms be seen that way?

I'll have to agree here, it's not like you got a 1 word limit per description, people are always many things.

Maybe someone over here is able to lend a helping hand?

Twisting my Freudian moustache, I'll deduce that she is needy and doesn't like it, even if others might be ok with it, so she gets frustrated over her own seeming weakness and takes it all out on others. Very afraid that others might find out about it, stress levels tend to be high and she's rough on the easy-going types as they don't help her steam. Best way of approach: confusion, hide your intentions and convey your "type" to be the one she wants-confident, respecting her instead of pitying her for her neediness.
Maybe I'm totally off on this one, after all I've never met either, but hey, women are complex creatures~

@ Samari: characters may be the work of fiction, but their relationships all stem from reality. Even the most impossible anime character can be found in the real world, however rare that is.
Minor note: I got too many courses today, won't be online for another 11 hours or so, don't expect me to answer soon.

[Samari]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

These are still mainly anime forums, and most of the users are in their teen years, so using such terms makes it a lot easier for them to describe various personalities, however superficial.

Word. I know a lot of people here are still in their teens and relate a lot to anime lingo and the like. I remember the same kind of people in high school. Just a phase.

[Haruka_Kitten]

*facepalms* the mods are gonna like how far this thread has strayed from the ball of yarn....

Originally Posted by Kafriel

These are still mainly anime forums, and most of the users are in their teen years, so using such terms makes it a lot easier for them to describe various personalities, however superficial.

True, but most people don't respond well to jargon anyway.

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I'll have to agree here, it's not like you got a 1 word limit per description, people are always many things.

True too, and however that may seem, even if someone put a gun to my head and only gave me a chance to describe a really pretty girl in just one word, I wouldn't. She'd be so much more than just pretty.

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Maybe I'm totally off on this one, after all I've never met either, but hey, women are complex creatures~

....Why.....I think I've pointed out a zillion times that I will never think of a girl as a separate species. Ah well....

[SaintessHeart]

I kind of pity those people who claim to be realistic and proceed to slam others who use anime terms as out of touch, etc, then branding them as hikkikomoris. It is ironic that they do not realise that there are people who are like that existing in "reality".

As much as there is nothing wrong with people marrying their bolsters and figurines, there isn't anything wrong with going along with someone of the same sex, a geek, a nerd, an antisocial, etc. Whoever started with this kind of lousy stereotypical judgement as "unnatural people" certainly has a brain full of maggots.

People choose to be what they are and do what they want, and love whoever they are interested in, so who are you exactly to judge them?

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Twisting my Freudian moustache, I'll deduce that she is needy and doesn't like it, even if others might be ok with it, so she gets frustrated over her own seeming weakness and takes it all out on others. Very afraid that others might find out about it, stress levels tend to be high and she's rough on the easy-going types as they don't help her steam. Best way of approach: confusion, hide your intentions and convey your "type" to be the one she wants-confident, respecting her instead of pitying her for her neediness.
Maybe I'm totally off on this one, after all I've never met either, but hey, women are complex creatures~

It looks like you are asking him to play up on her. But if it makes the girl happy, why not?

But I do agree that women are complex creatures, there was once I totally gave up on understanding them.

[Samari]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

I kind of pity those people who claim to be realistic and proceed to slam others who use anime terms as out of touch, etc, then branding them as hikkikomoris. It is ironic that they do not realise that there are people who are like that existing in "reality".

As much as there is nothing wrong with people marrying their bolsters and figurines, there isn't anything wrong with going along with someone of the same sex, a geek, a nerd, an antisocial, etc. Whoever started with this kind of lousy stereotypical judgement as "unnatural people" certainly has a brain full of maggots.

People are free to do whatever they want. I never said that they couldn't. Doesn't mean I can't express my opinion that it may be unusual to me. If people really care what a total stranger has to say and take it to heart over something very trivial (it's not like I'm criticizing religion, sex, or race), then that is worse than what I was doing, which was actually just expressing an opinion. If people's feelings are hurt by the context of how my message was mentioned over the internet, then oh well put me on ignore if it bothers you that much.