To Aru Majutsu no Index - Character Discussion - Kamijo Touma

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Ritsu026

Guys I just realized that if there was some power that "steals" other powers it can't be used to absorb Touma's ability. He will just block it. I think that he's really lucky guy. Think about it. Almost every 10 minutes in the anime in front of him is a naked girl. It's true that after this he's punished , but after all I still think he is not so misfortuned as he always says.

Well logically speaking, assuming there is a technique to steal the ability of negating power, wouldn't that just cause the user to lose his power in the first place ?

Say for example that guy from [Heroes] copied Imagine Breaker, it would just cause him to lose all the power he had before.

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Well if you mind typical shounen characters like Sasuke and Naruto... you're right, Touma has very solid beliefs.

The typical shounen hold on to one thought and one thought alone- Comrades. Whatever happens, no matter what the enemy say, they have that one line to fall back on.

It's not the same as Touma.

[eiyuu99]

That will be an epic fail moment when the ability absorber loses all previously gained abilities and also gain extra misfortune.

[Kenta Maebara]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

Is it really justice, or just what he believes in?

It's not justice. Everyone else just thinks so, that he's a "righteous hero of justice"; Touma himself doesn't believe that - he just simply believes in his own values and beliefs. Things like "God" or "justice", "good" and "evil, "hero" and "villian" are all nothing but illusions created by humans. "Breaking" those illusions is what makes Touma extraordinary.

Spoiler for Touma vs Accelerator:

"Does a Level 0 like me really seem that incredible?! Hero? Villain? Stop kidding around!"

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

An interesting topic that nobody seems to bring up is that for a 16-17 years old adolescent teenage boy, Touma have a very firm grasp of concept and his beliefs. No matter what his enemy says, they can never confuse or shake him or make him question himself.

How many of you can say that when you're 16?

Keep in mind that Touma is only 16, so he does waver and question himself sometimes, most concieveably when

Spoiler for Fiamma of the Right:

Fiamma shakes him up about how he lied to Index about his memories.

But his faith in himself, and everyone else, is his support through the direst of times; realizing this everytime, Touma never loses that faith.

Spoiler for Touma's resolve:

"It’s true that I may be the bastard who lied to Index. But the one who will cause me to lower my head won’t be Fiamma of the Right."

And being 17, I can VERY much say my beliefs are almost as strong as Touma's.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

and that's the point. After the memory lost. He also lost his doubts. His will and beliefs become iron steel. But his not originally like that. It's like when he lost his past he can only look into the future or his present so he doesn't need to had doubts or time to waver anymore.

I must say, he has balls though...being able to charge an Archangel right into the depths of the Arctic without wavering...

[tsunade666]

well if you don't had past and only strive for your present or future then it can be done. Because their is nothing more to loose. He doesn't fear much from his past though he still keeps index around and even in his present state. Because he doesn't had time to waver he can do what ever he wants to do.

I wonder if their will be an arc where a childhood friend shows up though it's way past the time for a childhood friend to shows up because he already become one with the star

[Karna]

Spoiler for Novel Spoilers:

I'm assuming that the general theory going around about what Imagine Breaker is sealing is Satan? Touma was obviously talking to some other personality inside of him during his fight with Fiama, after his arm was ripped off.

The only problem I have with this is that Satan would likely be from the Age of Osiris, wouldn't he? Meaning that Satan would be from a completely outdated format...

[outerelf]

Originally Posted by ~Greed~

Spoiler for Novel Spoilers:

I'm assuming that the general theory going around about what Imagine Breaker is sealing is Satan? Touma was obviously talking to some other personality inside of him during his fight with Fiama, after his arm was ripped off.

The only problem I have with this is that Satan would likely be from the Age of Osiris, wouldn't he? Meaning that Satan would be from a completely outdated format...

Spoiler for Agreement:

I'll have to agree with you there. Plus, Satan was sealed/cast down by God, so Satan can't be above God like Touma's last name suggests his power to be.

Personally, I think that whatever is inside of Touma isn't so much as evil as it is powerful. (But whatever it is, it must be a doozy to make anything that faces it tremble in complete fear)

I do have to say though- were Touma's parents fortunate or unfortunate to have a child with such power?

We know that Touya and Shinya are two extremely lucky people, their child was born with power, but was Touma's birth an unlucky event?

[Karna]

Originally Posted by outerelf

Spoiler for Agreement:

I'll have to agree with you there. Plus, Satan was sealed/cast down by God, so Satan can't be above God like Touma's last name suggests his power to be.

Personally, I think that whatever is inside of Touma isn't so much as evil as it is powerful. (But whatever it is, it must be a doozy to make anything that faces it tremble in complete fear)

Spoiler for well...:

I wouldn't completely throw out the possibility that Satan/Lucifer is the thing that is inside of Touma. Especially since Imagine Breaker was what supposedly sealed Lucifer in hell. Or at least that is what I think I remember Fiama saying.

There could be some other circumstances as to why Lucifer was beaten, and he could actually be from the age of Horus. Crowley probably wouldn't be keeping the identity of the being inside of Touma so well hidden if it wasn't a power from the age of horus. I mean Crowley felt it was necessary to personally deal with Fiama after Fiama found out what was inside of Touma.

I do have to say though- were Touma's parents fortunate or unfortunate to have a child with such power?

We know that Touya and Shinya are two extremely lucky people, their child was born with power, but was Touma's birth an unlucky event?

Likely kind of unfortunate considering the kind of childhood Touma had.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by ~Greed~

Spoiler for well...:

I wouldn't completely throw out the possibility that Satan/Lucifer is the thing that is inside of Touma. Especially since Imagine Breaker was what supposedly sealed Lucifer in hell. Or at least that is what I think I remember Fiama saying.

There could be some other circumstances as to why Lucifer was beaten, and he could actually be from the age of Horus. Crowley probably wouldn't be keeping the identity of the being inside of Touma so well hidden if it wasn't a power from the age of horus. I mean Crowley felt it was necessary to personally deal with Fiama after Fiama found out what was inside of Touma.

Spoiler for Mistranslation:

It was the Holy Right, aka power of the Archangel Michael, that defeated Lucifer and not the Imagine Breaker.

Fiamma wields Michael's power, and whatever it was inside of Touma shook the hell out of Fiamma.

[Karna]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Spoiler for Mistranslation:

It was the Holy Right, aka power of the Archangel Michael, that defeated Lucifer and not the Imagine Breaker.

Fiamma wields Michael's power, and whatever it was inside of Touma shook the hell out of Fiamma.

Spoiler for Ah, I see.:

I see. Nevermind about IB dealing satan then...


Either way, I hope that whatever's inside of Touma get's revealed soon.

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by ~Greed~

Spoiler for Ah, I see.:

I see. Nevermind about IB dealing satan then...


Either way, I hope that whatever's inside of Touma get's revealed soon.

Spoiler for wait:

Its a high possibility that its satan. Though since this story is following book of law references we might not know what it is actually called,though im going for "Set". U saw Gabriel does that look human to you?

Questions- Fiammas "third arm" is the form of a hawks claw. Is that a reference to Horus?

Also, if whats inside Touma is satan then wouldn't that mean inside of touma is hell?

[outerelf]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

Spoiler for wait:

Its a high possibility that its satan. Though since this story is following book of law references we might not know what it is actually called,though im going for "Set". U saw Gabriel does that look human to you?

Questions- Fiammas "third arm" is the form of a hawks claw. Is that a reference to Horus?

Also, if whats inside Touma is satan then wouldn't that mean inside of touma is hell?

Spoiler for spoiler:

But if Fiamma holds the Holy Right which defeated Lucifer and the power that Touma has made even the Holy Right withdraw in fear... It doesn't make sense for it to be Satan. Plus, Satan is in the age of 'Christianity' and thereby outdated. Toumas power is outside terms of 'Christianity'.

“… Trying to explain what that Right Hand and Imagine Breaker… and ‘Kamijou’… is with nothing more than the level of Christianity. That itself is your failure.”

Gabriel did look human, but it was also mentioned by Hyouka that it wasn't supposed to be that way. Misha, when holding Gabriel, was so horrified by the human body that it was willing to destroy cities using Sweep in order to return to heaven. Gabriel, once no longer controlled, was more then willing to destroy the world in order to return to heaven, and to create a 'body' that would allow it to return. That's why the special ice was needed, but Touma destroyed that body, allowing it to go back to where it belonged.

Plus, you can't forget how powerful the IB is, even when it's mostly sealed. Take a look when it versus the third arm- Even though it was severely limited to only the right hand, Fiamma admitted there was pain when trying to assimilate it into his own.

Those flesh and blood are devoured by the ‘Third Arm’ reaching out from Fiamma’s right shoulder.

Pain.

The face that was always calm up to this point was distorted by a hint of unpleasantness.

Though the flesh and blood are perfectly integrated, Imagine Breaker’s power is currently having special effects on Fiamma of the Right, erasing power from his very core.

That's just with the right hand, imagine if it was the entire arm, or if it was his entire body like there have been some suggestions it should be.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

Questions- Fiammas "third arm" is the form of a hawks claw. Is that a reference to Horus?

I think is a reference between legendary beast and a meaning.
Just like dragons are related to angels, Fiamma's claw resembles IMO to the Phoenix which is related to the miracles, fire and inmortality.

Originally Posted by outerelf

But if Fiamma holds the Holy Right which defeated Lucifer and the power that Touma has made even the Holy Right withdraw in fear... It doesn't make sense for it to be Satan. Plus, Satan is in the age of 'Christianity' and thereby outdated. Toumas power is outside terms of 'Christianity'. ]

No, the christianity is just a way to understand God not the format which God belongs to.

That's just with the right hand, imagine if it was the entire arm, or if it was his entire body like there have been some suggestions it should be.

Thats because the right still has a meaning for God just like Fiamma's power is on his right hand though manifested by the 3rd arm.

Fiamma said his 3rd arm was imperfect but after taking Touma's righ arm flesh does it really became perfect?
I think the answer is a NO, the perfect Holy Right must have been manifested trough Fiamma's own right hand.

[shmaster]

I believe we should be this way: Aeon of Osiris is the format that Christian God belongs to. Each aeon has its own deities, and the new one replace the old.

I think this is really what being higher than god mean. You become the new god of the next era and the old god gets disqualified. So, the Christian God will be eating his own medicine on what he did to the Pagan Gods back in Aeon of Isis.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by shmaster

I believe we should be this way: Aeon of Osiris is the format that Christian God belongs to. Each aeon has its own deities, and the new one replace the old.

I think this is really what being higher than god mean. You become the new god of the next era and the old god gets disqualified. So, the Christian God will be eating his own medicine on what he did to the Pagan Gods back in Aeon of Isis.

Polytheism -> Monotheism -> Atheism

[Ritsu026]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Well logically speaking, assuming there is a technique to steal the ability of negating power, wouldn't that just cause the user to lose his power in the first place ?

Say for example that guy from [Heroes] copied Imagine Breaker, it would just cause him to lose all the power he had before.

You mean Peter , but I can't remember how he copied the power's of Imagine Breaker. Peter's powers are to copy other powers and he doesn't need to make contact with the esper he tries to copy and in this series Imagine Breaker was "The Haitian" who can fully control his ability and can stop it if he wants so then Peter can copy it. I wish for mixing Heroes and To Aru Majutsu No Index. It will be really interesting to see how Touma will beat some evil asses like Sylar and Peter's father.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Ritsu026

You mean Peter , but I can't remember how he copied the power's of Imagine Breaker. Peter's powers are to copy other powers and he doesn't need to make contact with the esper he tries to copy and in this series Imagine Breaker was "The Haitian" who can fully control his ability and can stop it if he wants so then Peter can copy it. I wish for mixing Heroes and To Aru Majutsu No Index. It will be really interesting to see how Touma will beat some evil asses like Sylar and Peter's father.

Going according to the 'Laws' of Toaruverse, Imagine Breaker is a power that can only exist on one person and cannot be copied.

I think it also went into specifics by saying, only the right hand attached to Kamijou Touma is the Imagine Breaker, or something along that line.

[Ritsu026]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Going according to the 'Laws' of Toaruverse, Imagine Breaker is a power that can only exist on one person and cannot be copied.

I think it also went into specifics by saying, only the right hand attached to Kamijou Touma is the Imagine Breaker, or something along that line.

you're right. Only the right hand of Touma is Imagine Breaker. It cannot be copied because to copy it they have to use powers , doesn't matter magic or AIM , and Imagine Breaker blocks all kinds of powers so they are not able to copy them.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by shmaster

I believe we should be this way: Aeon of Osiris is the format that Christian God belongs to. Each aeon has its own deities, and the new one replace the old.

I think this is really what being higher than god mean. You become the new god of the next era and the old god gets disqualified. So, the Christian God will be eating his own medicine on what he did to the Pagan Gods back in Aeon of Isis.

The problem is Good seems to be missing. And only his angels are there taking care of the system left by him.

[Ritsu026]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

The problem is Good seems to be missing. And only his angels are there taking care of the system left by him.

If that's so then the situation is familiar with "Supernatural" where God was dead and only the Archangels and Angels were taking care for the Earth.