[MANGA] what went wrong in bleach?

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I mean, Naruto is equally guilty of having terrible plotholes, but at least the author has courage enough to kill characters off without some lame deus ex machina the next chapter to completely reverse it.

I'm laughing like your avatar (Nagato, if isn't clear why I'm laughing)

Kishi and Kubo both do not have the balls to get rid of popular characters. Unohana, Yamamoto, Neji, Kira are not nearly popular enough.

[Guernsey]

It kind of cheapens the tension knowing the main characters are just going top be revived through some plot contrived manner. Nobody who is important to the story dies in Naruto and Bleach, at least Oda killed off Ace who was a fairly popular character in that series.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

It kind of cheapens the tension knowing the main characters are just going top be revived through some plot contrived manner. Nobody who is important to the story dies in Naruto and Bleach, at least Oda killed off Ace who was a fairly popular character in that series.

not sure about his popularity (although i am a huge fan) but kishi did well with jiraiya and he didn't bring him back thankfully

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by Eragon

I'm laughing like your avatar (Nagato, if isn't clear why I'm laughing)

Kishi and Kubo both do not have the balls to get rid of popular characters. Unohana, Yamamoto, Neji, Kira are not nearly popular enough.

As much as I hate Naruto, at least Kishi never pulled, 'RIP' for three chapters with a character that's obviously dead only to pull "OOPSY NEVERMIND THEY"RE ALIVE BUT LIKE TOTES INJURED' later.

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by GDiddy

What went wrong in Bleach? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh boy. This is going to take awhile:

Let's start with what was a fun adventure back in the SS arc: teenage kid gets powers by accident thru a girl...who turns out to be a shinigami. Girl gets in trouble, kid feels bad and gets a small group of other kids who are like him: Big Brother type who looks like he'll kick your ass, token fanservice with T & A and the hot nerd who's a frenemy/rival. Everyone fights, including the shinigami as we meet them all and Ichigo prevails in the end.

Flash forward to years later:

Aizen is a total Villian Stu, but I'd rather have him come back because something tells me that Bach is even going to become more of a Villian Stu than Aizen.

Kubo isn't as bad as Kishi with the females, but Jesus Christ......he's basically destroyed Rukia and just turned her into nothing but fodder since she got promoted. Orihime keeps getting hinted as having something special but nothing has come across other than 'LOL SHE CAN HEAL PEOPLE'. Kubo should've seriously killed her and Chad off to Opie or just keep them sidelined because they can not survive this. No way.

We know that Soifon, Isane and Nanao all survived the massacre; what about the other ladygami? Is Matsumoto okay? What about Nemu? More importantly, what the fuck happened to Yoruichi? Did Aizen really kill her off?

Kubo should've just killed off Rukia as well. Yes, she's the female MC, but it also would've given Ichigo a real reason to want to get powerful and let's face it, she don't do shit anymore.

Too many damn characters. Kubo should just kill the ones that he's obviously done with like the nakama, most of the VCs and vizards and just keep it to Ichigo and the fanbaits.

With Rukia, she had just been relegated as Ichigo's pep talk in a can, barring her from what I would consider to be the "main heroine", and subsequently forgot about her as time went on.

And Kubo has angered me to no end on Orihime, since he darn well knows what he can do with her, but almost purposefully pulls back (the intracies of her friendships with Tatsuki, Rukia, and Rangiku could be much more and actually show a good relationship between females that doesn't need to be sexualized as well as add more dynamics to those characters, and every time she is about to take the next step, he trolls her back to square one (right before the Hueco Mundo arc and the entirety of the Fullbring arc) ).

I agree that the problem is that there are loads of characters, but honestly, that can be worked on to great effect if you can handle the growth of interpersonal relationships, which Kubo IS capable of, but just doesn't for some reason, so many characters either go to waste or end up used as just a plot device and discarded (which is Rukia at this point, Unohana, and Renji pretty much, and lets not get into Momo's chew toy treatment) to rot. None of the things he does make much sense unless he wanted to sabotage the story's potential.

[GDiddy]

^Which he has.

Yeah, Bleach is still popular with the Western fans.....though I suspect it's mostly due to snarking on it. But it's no longer the powerhouse it was in Japan.

[Mad Pierrot]

One thing I can guarantee is that Chad barely has fans now. I've already seen jokes of Chad X Floor OTP due to the times he was easily defeated.

[Langus]

Kubo screwed up the minute he wrote Rukia out of the story. Bleach was popular at the start because it had a formula that worked. Ichigo & Rukia were a team and they offered comedy, snark, deeper connections and some would argue romantic chemistry week after week. Kubo made her "strong" by promoting her, but she's done nothing to prove she's earned that title since. Her and Ichigo don't talk anymore either. Kubo effectively cut the female lead out of the male lead's life with no real reason for it and it hurt the popularity of Bleach (and the story) more than he anticipated.

[Casshern]

^^Totally agree and it's one of the main reasons why the first season, before SS, is still my favorite.

[Guernsey]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

One thing I can guarantee is that Chad barely has fans now. I've already seen jokes of Chad X Floor OTP due to the times he was easily defeated.

Originally Posted by Langus

Kubo screwed up the minute he wrote Rukia out of the story. Bleach was popular at the start because it had a formula that worked. Ichigo & Rukia were a team and they offered comedy, snark, deeper connections and some would argue romantic chemistry week after week. Kubo made her "strong" by promoting her, but she's done nothing to prove she's earned that title since. Her and Ichigo don't talk anymore either. Kubo effectively cut the female lead out of the male lead's life with no real reason for it and it hurt the popularity of Bleach (and the story) more than he anticipated.

Originally Posted by Casshern

^^Totally agree and it's one of the main reasons why the first season, before SS, is still my favorite.

The first arc of series was definitely the best, it had the right pacing and it handled the interactions between the characters very well. The Soul Society arc was the second best arc by sheer virtue of adding some ambiguity to the series. It was only after Hueco Mundo arc that things started to get a little repetitive, it repeated the same plotline from the Soul Society arc and it had too many characters to focus on. Bleach had a lot of fluff but not enough substance to keep it focused.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Langus

Kubo screwed up the minute he wrote Rukia out of the story.

that's a great point. totally true. after she got rescued by ichigo she should have gone back to being a main character and probably should have become very powerful with bankai even. strong female characters are rare, but are always great. kubo switched from that to all damsel in distresses which is hackneyed and boring. all of ichigo's freinds should have been stronger. inoue should have done some cool things in the HM arc and Chad should have taken over the fullbring arc. instead they are all just useless like rukia now

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

that's a great point. totally true. after she got rescued by ichigo she should have gone back to being a main character and probably should have become very powerful with bankai even. strong female characters are rare, but are always great. kubo switched from that to all damsel in distresses which is hackneyed and boring. all of ichigo's freinds should have been stronger. inoue should have done some cool things in the HM arc and Chad should have taken over the fullbring arc. instead they are all just useless like rukia now

My guess is that this happen because the guys from Soul Society were more popular than the main cast. Ever wondered why Hitsugaya was the only captain sent to Karakura at the beginning of Arrancar? He was the most popular character in Japan.

The same thing happened with the Fullbring arc. I expect Inoue and Sado to become stronger and we got the Shinigamis out of nowhere. Even Byakuya shoved it in everybody's faces that he was better when he defeated Tsukishima despite his affected memories.

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

Bleach had a lot of fluff but not enough substance to keep it focused.

Bingo! I think you hit the nail on the head.

It's sad (and frustrating) to see what happens when mangakas (are forced to) pander to the whims of popularity polls. It can only end badly.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

My guess is that this happen because the guys from Soul Society were more popular than the main cast. Ever wondered why Hitsugaya was the only captain sent to Karakura at the beginning of Arrancar? He was the most popular character in Japan.

yea that makes sense, but in that particular case the story was still pretty decent and i think rukia was always a popular character so i dont see why he cut her out of the story for the most part

[GDiddy]

I'm still seriously expecting Kubo to kill her off. At this point, I'd rather seriously see her dead than to be tortured over and over just to be used for Ichigo's resolve. Same with Orihime and Chad.

It's pretty obvious that Kubo is DONEwith Ichigo's crew. The only ones who actually seems to be getting SOME kind of development is Renji...though I suspect that he won't last once the shit hits the fan as well.

And Ishida....I'm not really going to say anything just yet. Kind of soon.

[Mangs]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

My guess is that this happen because the guys from Soul Society were more popular than the main cast. Ever wondered why Hitsugaya was the only captain sent to Karakura at the beginning of Arrancar? He was the most popular character in Japan.

I will never understand Hitsuyaga’s popularity; he’s my least favorite out of all the captains. His personality is boring and bland, we’ve seen his bankai one billion times, his fights are all boring, he never gets any character development. He’s just the guy that makes me fast-forward through an episode.

[Mangs]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

that's a great point. totally true. after she got rescued by ichigo she should have gone back to being a main character and probably should have become very powerful with bankai even. strong female characters are rare, but are always great. kubo switched from that to all damsel in distresses which is hackneyed and boring. all of ichigo's freinds should have been stronger. inoue should have done some cool things in the HM arc and Chad should have taken over the fullbring arc. instead they are all just useless like rukia now

Side-characters are what makes or breaks a show. When it's all about the main protaganist, a show gets stale and boring, no matter how awesome that character is.

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by Mangs

I will never understand Hitsuyaga’s popularity; he’s my least favorite out of all the captains. His personality is boring and bland, we’ve seen his bankai one billion times, his fights are all boring, he never gets any character development. He’s just the guy that makes me fast-forward through an episode.

Japan loves the shota

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Mangs

I will never understand Hitsuyaga’s popularity; he’s my least favorite out of all the captains. His personality is boring and bland, we’ve seen his bankai one billion times, his fights are all boring, he never gets any character development. He’s just the guy that makes me fast-forward through an episode.

yea i agree. he's certainly at the bottom of my list of favorite captains along with yama-jii, komomura, tousen, and some of the vaizards like love and rose. just too boring in my book. no character arc at all for them

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Mangs

I will never understand Hitsuyaga’s popularity; he’s my least favorite out of all the captains. His personality is boring and bland, we’ve seen his bankai one billion times, his fights are all boring, he never gets any character development. He’s just the guy that makes me fast-forward through an episode.

I think the character's popularity can be largely attributed to the anime. I had a few students who were absolutely obsessed with Hitsugaya when I was over there so I asked them what the deal was. They said the voice actor who played the role was super famous and that the character was drawn "cute". That was it.

Note: For anyone interested, it's Romi Paku who also voiced Ed in FMA, Switzerland in Hetalia and Temari in Naruto