(L+CR) Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Zoku (Oregairu Season 2)

[ZeroXSEED]

Hachiman NEVER solve any problem, at least, not the graver ones. He's good when it comes to thinking outside box, but his solution can be extremely inefficient.

If he simply followed his plan with Iroha, who's going to handle the student council? Probably one of the active members? Not his problem.

Hachiman never solve the root of any problem whenever he sacrificed himself, all he did is delaying the inevitable. it's when he actually earn the success that the results are flawless (Such as Saki's plot).

[RegalStar]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

The easiest solution was for Isshiki to decline the nomination because she is too "busy" with whatever her club activities are and preparing for college entrance exams. This is trying to create drama when there really shouldn't be.

Yeah well, there were some things that the anime didn't bother to explain: there are no procedures for declining a nomination, because the rules all just assume that people who nominated did so with their own intent. Also, Iroha is a first-year, so entrance exam isn't relevant for her.

[nooneagain]

So I came to this thread, despite not watching the first season. But I don't really mind spoilers. So Hachiman never really solved problems at all? shame, I thought I might like the guy since my friends recommend this series to me mostly because they liked the main guy. But are you guys satisfied with the MC and how he "solves" the problems?

[ZeroXSEED]

We're not, but that's what character development for

If it ends with loner ending I will be pissed

[nooneagain]

so...you mean no character development for him in season 1? seems like a downer for me. but well, I made a decision to watch season 1 just this moment lol. I was just disappointed when yukinoshita said: "you've always been avoiding the problems at hand".

[p-kun]

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

If he simply followed his plan with Iroha, who's going to handle the student council? Probably one of the active members? Not his problem.

This time, I think Yukino's plan involves throwing a sacrificial lamb as the new candidate. If the victim is attention whore like the girl heading the cultural festival, or the ringleader who decided to pull prank on Iroha, then maybe it's justified. In the end, the student council will also be sacrificed. It seems to me that in the end, Yukino will be the candidate herself. If so, she basically sacrifices herself just like 8man did. In short, both ways have problems.

I don't understand why Iroha cannot just flat out refuse. Even if there's no regulation about it, the school cannot force her anyway. It's not as if the school can expel her or put her on detention for withdrawing. I think it'll be best if Shizuka just brings Iroha and the pranksters to the headmaster, explains the situation and get permission to drop her candidacy.

To me, requesting help from the service club is Shizuka's way of sweeping the problem under the rug, protecting the pranksters, and sacrificing Iroha or the sacrificial candidate in the process. For some reason, Yukino is fine with this superficiality and sacrifice.

On the episode, well, we always know Haruno is a jerk, but wow, that's low.

[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

We're not, but that's what character development for

If it ends with loner ending I will be pissed

Well, Hachiman can join Yozora in the loners' club! Still, it's a bad idea to propose a terrible plan that'll hurt him in the long run!

[KLGChaos]

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

We're not, but that's what character development for

If it ends with loner ending I will be pissed

With all the crap Hachiman takes (a lot of it self inflicted), I could almost picture it ending with his suicide. Really hoping it doesn't go down the loner road. I would like to see him grow and develop as a character. Love the series, but every time I watch an episode I have to go watch baby unicorns playing with kittens to cheer me up again. Lol.

[itisjustme]

Haruno is awfully cute in the anime, it almost makes me want to see her hook up with 8man or something.

[Hollownerox]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

The easiest solution was for Isshiki to decline the nomination because she is too "busy" with whatever her club activities are and preparing for college entrance exams. This is trying to create drama when there really shouldn't be.

Eh, no, that wouldn't be a solution at all. As a previous poster mentioned she is only a first year, so she has no reason to be studying for college exams; especially since she hasn't even been given the choice between humanities or the sciences yet. As for her club, she is only a manager at the soccer club, and to be frank the club managers don't actually do that much; so that excuse doesn't hold much water. Plus it is expected for a student council president to be heavily involved in a club, that's just an expectation people naturally have for them.

More to the point the issue isn't the fact that she doesn't want to be a president. The issue is the embarrassment and the blow to her reputation that would occur being elected the president solely because she had no opposition. So having her use a petty excuse like being too busy with a club, would only exacerbate that problem because it makes her look like a pathetic person who wouldn't take up the position even with a guaranteed win.

Not to mention her teacher is too gung-ho about her winning, and isn't willing to let her drop out of the election. Along with the possibility of the girls that nominated her out of spite using that as a venue of attack on her.

[YumeNoMonogatari]

The new OP is kinda awkward. I don't really like it.

Iroha's voice wasn't like I imagined but I love it. Her pitched voice reminds me that she's younger than our main trio. However Orimoto's voice is better than I imagined.

To sum up : a very good episode just like always.

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by itisjustme

Haruno is awfully cute in the anime, it almost makes me want to see her hook up with 8man or something.

Wow, you're quite a sadist.

I found only the snow part (pun... not intended) of the op awkward. But Hachiman shuffling his way out? Damn, was it cute.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by nooneagain

So I came to this thread, despite not watching the first season. But I don't really mind spoilers. So Hachiman never really solved problems at all? shame, I thought I might like the guy since my friends recommend this series to me mostly because they liked the main guy. But are you guys satisfied with the MC and how he "solves" the problems?

It's a matter of perspective imho. Ultimately, I'd say it's not so much that he doesn't solve problems as he narrows his field down to the essential matters of what the person seeking help wants and tries to come up with a way to get that while generally minimizing negative impacts on people besides himself. For instance...

Spoiler:

In one spot people were being separated into three-person teams and the popular Hayama's three friends were simultaneously being hit with rumors; it was readily apparent that one of the three was trying to insure his position in Hayama's group by eliminating one of the other two, and hiding it with rumors about himself. Hikigaya's solution was to have Hayama group with none of them, so that those three would become friends rather than just mutual friends of Hayama's. Since Hayama wanted to eliminate the hurtful rumors and stuff happening between the three, this works out.

Hikigaya's choice to focus so much on the main desire of a requester can be potentially dangerous or negative, and may leave major problems behind that don't directly involve the client, but that doesn't mean he doesn't solve his client's problem.

All that said, I have to say a lot of his clients are unpleasant, and this one is really very high up there. Somehow, after watching this episode, I developed a fierce urge to see Iroha broken. Wouldn't be too hard, since frankly she seems to be little more than a shell who cares about nothing but how she looks to other people. The more I heard from her, the more it seemed like her every word, behavior and choice was entirely based on what would make her look cool. I'd call her shallow, but I've met shallow people whose personalities you could scuba in compared to her.
And as for his failure to "properly" solve her request, I don't know if the request the way it was given has a solution besides the one given. She doesn't want some annoying and lame responsibility, but she doesn't want to drop out or get rejected outright because that wouldn't be cool. The only solutions I can think of are to either have her rejected because of someone else's actions, making that person take all the bad rep and letting her dodge responsibility without any problems (Hikigaya's solution), or find someone to compete against her and beat her, making it a matter of relative popularity rather than individual unpopularity (Yukino's solution). However, Iroha can't stand the idea of losing to someone who isn't really cool because she'd look lame losing to an unpopular kid, and she doesn't want anyone cool to win either, presumably because she wouldn't be able to hang out with them as much. Thus, Yukino's solution requires they find someone who's really cool, but at the same time isn't cool.
Not an easy task, and even if the one person I somewhat suspect takes on the task, this still means forcing unwanted work on someone else because the shallow girl doesn't want it. Ultimately, it seems like they're arguing about whether it's better to let a willing volunteer look bad or force someone else to take on a thankless job (s)he doesn't want.

One more thing, concerning my desire to see Iroha broken and forced to realize how shallow and pathetic she is (I know I'm harsh but she really annoys me), I similarly recall after hearing Hayama say Haruno either smothers friends with affection or destroys enemies with impunity, a part of me hoped that after a little consideration of Hachiman and Kaori Haruno would decide it'd be fun to squish her too. I don't know, there's just something about that casual dismissal of a guy because he's not in her league that makes me want to see her brought down to his league where she can be the one getting rejected.

[Sides]

Not really a spoiler, just guess work:

Spoiler:

So Shiromeguri wants Yukino as next president by laying a trap and Hatchiman is going to fall into it?

I didn't read the LN, so I am just guessing here, from the things that was mentioned in this episode.

[ChampDream]

the part in the donut shop was really painfull, I feel Haruno is scheming something.

[Klashikari]

I dunno if it is just me, but Haruno's design was so different that I completely failed recognizing her... if it wasn't for Nakahara, I would have thought she was a completely new character.

In any case, the major problem here is plainly Iroha who just dragged the whole issue into a deadlock. To be honest, Yukino's solution is much more debatable to me considering it keep the pretense of saving Iroha's face without considering the "sacrifice" point of view.
Even if the selected person (who is very likely to be Yukino herself) is fine with that, it isn't like they wanted to be the president in the first place, so they would have to be influenced by the club members action for such result.

[hai_san]

So much drama now... i thought this should be a love-comedy... well seems like Yukino will be candidate for president.

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Oregairu Zoku will have 13 episodes (according to MAL). I wonder if the 13th episode will be an OVA type of episode like last season...

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I dunno if it is just me, but Haruno's design was so different that I completely failed recognizing her... if it wasn't for Nakahara, I would have thought she was a completely new character.

In any case, the major problem here is plainly Iroha who just dragged the whole issue into a deadlock. To be honest, Yukino's solution is much more debatable to me considering it keep the pretense of saving Iroha's face without considering the "sacrifice" point of view.
Even if the selected person (who is very likely to be Yukino herself) is fine with that, it isn't like they wanted to be the president in the first place, so they would have to be influenced by the club members action for such result.

Guess I wasn't the alone in thinking that about Haruno. I blame sameface syndrome.

Isshiki is similar to Sagami in being pretentious and concerned with people's perception of her hence the awful conditions to her request. The bit about Isshiki's homeroom teacher pushing her for the position was left out but it's just one more push for her not to lose face.

The two proposed solutions are really quite even and the cons to Yukino's solution would be solvable(find a willing candidate and set up the logistics for them) if they had more time but unfortunately not since the election is around two weeks away.

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Spoiler:

All that said, I have to say a lot of his clients are unpleasant, and this one is really very high up there. Somehow, after watching this episode, I developed a fierce urge to see Iroha broken. Wouldn't be too hard, since frankly she seems to be little more than a shell who cares about nothing but how she looks to other people. The more I heard from her, the more it seemed like her every word, behavior and choice was entirely based on what would make her look cool. I'd call her shallow, but I've met shallow people whose personalities you could scuba in compared to her.
And as for his failure to "properly" solve her request, I don't know if the request the way it was given has a solution besides the one given. She doesn't want some annoying and lame responsibility, but she doesn't want to drop out or get rejected outright because that wouldn't be cool. The only solutions I can think of are to either have her rejected because of someone else's actions, making that person take all the bad rep and letting her dodge responsibility without any problems (Hikigaya's solution), or find someone to compete against her and beat her, making it a matter of relative popularity rather than individual unpopularity (Yukino's solution). However, Iroha can't stand the idea of losing to someone who isn't really cool because she'd look lame losing to an unpopular kid, and she doesn't want anyone cool to win either, presumably because she wouldn't be able to hang out with them as much. Thus, Yukino's solution requires they find someone who's really cool, but at the same time isn't cool.
Not an easy task, and even if the one person I somewhat suspect takes on the task, this still means forcing unwanted work on someone else because the shallow girl doesn't want it. Ultimately, it seems like they're arguing about whether it's better to let a willing volunteer look bad or force someone else to take on a thankless job (s)he doesn't want.

Yeah, it's more like a club to let people save face rather than helping with real problems. It's sad that they apparently can't turn requests down.

Originally Posted by hai_san

So much drama now... i thought this should be a love-comedy... well seems like Yukino will be candidate for president.

The title of the series aside, that thought was already supposed to have died in the first season (or I'm really being rude now).