AnimeSuki Forums

Dengar · 2012-11-20, 18:34

To be completely fair, 70% of the guys who actually matter in this world are already ability users to begin with.

marvelB · 2012-11-20, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Argg, just a few weeks ago I feared that we are going to see armies of manmade DF powered enemies and now we have the confirmation.
I would have preferred if the story didn't went this way.

lol, I'm actually unsurprised to see this reaction from you!

I've noticed that you have a tendency to rant about Oda's bigger twists. Well, to each their own, of course.

Now me, on the other hand, am actually excited about this. Many people tend to underestimate zoans, but they can be really dangerous when trained properly. Hell, just imagine if everyone in that emperor's army of beastmen were on the level of guys like Lucci or Kaku. Pair that with most of those guys probably being haki users and you have a true force to be reckoned with.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

Props to Brownie-kun for standing up for his friends and what he believes in. Casear is a douche of the highest caliber, but he is also dangerous, so good going Brownbeard for standing up...even if you are annoying and hopefully will disappear after this arc...

Actually, I was kinda hoping that Brownie would join Luffy since most of his old crew are probably dead by now....

Also, about Dofla's smile line from the Sabaody arc: I can't really take credit for that, actually. It was someone from AP's spoiler thread who pointed that out first. I just relayed the info here, heh. But I also have to say that I find it highly amusing that "Smiles" are produced through a substance called "SAD".....

grey_1960 · 2012-11-20, 19:50

Chapter 689
That was a fun chapter. A army of devil fruit user was the most logical step. It is the only way to compete against the armies of Kuma bots out there now. Luffy already pissed off one yonkou (Big Mamma) and trying to go after another (I am thinking it is Black Beard), why not add a third (If it is Kaidou) just for shits and giggles.

Yonkous
I am curious of how Luffy and the crew will fair with the Yonkous coming after them. For better or for worse I won't be surprised if Luffy fights with one of the Yonkou early in the New World (Maybe the second or the third Island in the New World). Ace met with Shanks and fought white beard early on in his career. Those were some heavy hitters. Ace was Lucky to have met those two yonkous first. But Luffy is really in the head winds because his only alley is Shanks. His odds of meeting a bad Yonkou first is greater, especially with all the events that have unfolded since his entrance into the new world. If this whole secret Island thing comes on unraveled, it might delay or put a wrench in one of the Yonkou's plans. Also tip off the WG of what one of the Yonkous are doing. This would also put Daflamingo in a pickle. Which will only put Luffy on another Yonkou kill list. Which Yonkou will Luffy fight with first and how early?

paradox13 · 2012-11-20, 20:08

Quote:

That was a fun chapter. A army of devil fruit user was the most logical step.

I am thinking the Yonkou in question is Big Mom.

Why do people seem to think that it is Kaidou?

SilverSyko · 2012-11-20, 21:05

I'm pretty sure the only Yonkou we can really rule out is Shanks. It could be any of the other 3 really.

Big Mom is still possible, because even though we've already seen some of her men, the only one we know who has a Devil Fruit is Pekoms and his was a turtle Zoan, so her crew can't be completely ruled out.

We know next to nothing about Kaidou and his crew at the moment, so anything goes there, which is why it's likely most assume this relates to him.

Finally, Blackbeard has been said by Jinbei to be seeking and recruiting powerful devil fruit users into his crew, so he can't really be ruled out either.

ronin myael · 2012-11-20, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelB

Edit: Holy crap, it looks like Oda actually foreshadowed the Smile's appearance before the skip:

Spoiler:

holy crap indeed!

but i guess that's to be expected, oda is the master of foreshadowing. i didn't even give that smiles comment a second thought.

luffy punched like a boss! i like it when he goes serious like that, you just know that shit is going to happen!

aohige · 2012-11-21, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

To be completely fair, 70% of the guys who actually matter in this world are already ability users to begin with.

Sure, but number is strength.
Due to the Devil Fruits being unique, there's inheritently a limit of its abunancy.

That limit probably isn't there with these artificial fruits.
Henchmen of Yonkous already tend to be quite fearsome, hundreds of them having Zoans would be a force to be reckoned with.

It's sorta like the pirates' answer to the Pacifista army.
Now that would be a sight to see. Pew Pew Mecha army clashing with Furry Beastmen army.

Poetic Justice · 2012-11-21, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Argg, just a few weeks ago I feared that we are going to see armies of manmade DF powered enemies and now we have the confirmation.
I would have preferred if the story didn't went this way.

I'm ok with it since it's Zoan types only. Oda can easily draw a large animal army.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

"If you attack me, you risk the wrath of some of the strongest people in the world! You don't want that don't you?"

"Don't be daft....

Of course I do."

Seems like Ceaser doesn't read the papers much.

Poetic Justice · 2012-11-21, 03:58

Quote:

If they are able to create Zoans, there shouldn't be much problems to create other types as well. It may just be a matter of time. And then we will have whole armies of Enel's or Akainus.

I don't think that will ever happen. If we look at what's happened so far we can see that there's been a lack of focus towards zoan devil fruits. This is just a way to flesh them out.

golgo13 · 2012-11-21, 09:35

I wonder if the reason that the fruit types are all zoans is because they can kill animals and capture their "essence" in a fruit in the process. Maybe this is what SAD allows and the factory is where the transfer takes place. Harder to do that with rubber and inanimate objects. Although Vegapunk was able to feed a fruit to a sword. Hmm I wonder if the fruit the sword ate was man-made?

Caribou landed on Kaidou's island. The mountains in the background have finished "building". I wonder what that means for the fate of X Drake and Kaidou's subordinate Scotch.

It looks like the kids have been pacified and that Mocha was saved? That was a bit anti-climactic with Mocha, hopefully there are some more details in the coming chapters.

Did Luffy hit CC twice in the last panel? His left arm is cocked rather than his right.

Somnus · 2012-11-21, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

I didn't expect to see whole armies of DF users neither (well technically we haven't seen them yet), but look what happened.
IMHO it's just the next logical step the author needs to take.

I...really don't see how it's the next "logical" step. By what logic? The OP world is so vast and creative it has no need to follow any ridiculous "power chart" steps a la Naruto or Bleach. That's what makes it as good as it is. Rather than things having to become "stronger" (which, to be fair some things are), situations just become "different" and we get to see how our favourite pirate crew has to deal with it. Even if we are referencing raw power, as it stands Luffy is still playing catch up to what's been established for the longest time now. Not to mention there are so many other plots and unanswered questions Oda needs to address (in the same way he once again pulled his awesome tie-ins with SMILE), that he doesn't need to constantly add unnecessary elements into the mix.

Xellos-_^ · 2012-11-21, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Thing is, that the fruits were supposed to be something rare and unique. I think somewhere in the beginning there was said, that there is only a total of 100 fruits at all.

i don't think Oda ever said there was only 100 fruit. Only 100 has been id so far at the start of OP.

golgo13 · 2012-11-21, 14:15

Does the manufacturing of artificial fruits allow for duplicate fruits?

Will Luffy face a dark-Luffy one day?

james0246 · 2012-11-21, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by golgo13

Does the manufacturing of artificial fruits allow for duplicate fruits?

Will Luffy face a dark-Luffy one day?

God I hope not. Monet's pathetic rip off of Aokiji's Ice powers were already bad enough, but a rip off for Luffys powers would be boring...at least for Luffy to figjt, Zoro though...

Dengar · 2012-11-21, 14:29

But maybe the process to create a zoan type fruit is just easier. I mean, when it comes down to it, all zoan fruits work exactly the same. They just have different animals. There's even multiple types of the same animal fruit.

Similar things may be said about Logia fruits. Still, making a person transform into an animal seems less difficult than turning their body into a single type of energy/matter.

Paramecia fruits can be radically different from one another.

Note, that's just my thoughts on it.

Poetic Justice · 2012-11-21, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Scientific logic.
Zoan Devil Fruits aren't any different than the others, so when the scientists are able to recreate one kind of DF they should also be able to manufacture the others as well. It's only natural to continue the studies until you're able to make all of them.

Arguing about scientific logic in a manga where the science behind something hasn't even been explained. We don't even know much about Devil fruits so speculating about all of them being replicable is a bit hasty.

peterim09 · 2012-11-21, 15:20

The Yonkou with the Zoan army could be Kaidou, but it could also be Big Mam cuz remember when Big Mam doesnt get her sweets she sends the "Beasts of Big Mum's crew" to go and destroy the island.

golgo13 · 2012-11-21, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterim09

The Yonkou with the Zoan army could be Kaidou, but it could also be Big Mam cuz remember when Big Mam doesnt get her sweets she sends the "Beasts of Big Mum's crew" to go and destroy the island.

In another forum CCC commented on this:

Not to say that it makes your theory a bad one, but... I just checked the raw, and Tamago's word isn't literally "beasts." Beast isn't even a particularly good translation. It's more just like "really strong/hardy/stalwart men."

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

God I hope not. Monet's pathetic rip off of Aokiji's Ice powers were already bad enough, but a rip off for Luffys powers would be boring...at least for Luffy to figjt, Zoro though...

Heh it would be pretty cliche

marvelB · 2012-11-21, 20:19

BTW, I know I'm kinda late on this, but the main reason why I doubt Big Mom being the emperor with the zoan army is because she just doesn't strike me as the type of person who's obsessed with absolute power. She just seems to be some grotesque monster with an eternal sweet tooth. I mean, just look at how she refused Luffy's offer to give her Neptune's treasure just because she couldn't eat it!

That being said, even if the captain herself isn't interested in the artificial fruits, that may not necessarily mean her CREW isn't. After all, we saw Pekoms and the egg guy watching Caesar's broadcast of the weapon demonstration, did we not? Also notice that they took the king's treasure with them anyway despite their captain refusing it. Heck, Pekoms' turtle zoan could even be one of those Smile fruits! So I guess my point is that I COULD see Big Mom's crew being the beastman army if she allows those guys to act on their own interests (I guess as long as it results in more confectionery treats for her). Otherwise, I still have my doubts. So for the moment, my money is still on Kaidou being the Zoo Emperor, with Blackbeard as the runner-up choice (since he's apparently been hunting for DF powers anyway).....

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Well, if they can create the fruits, they should have understood their mechanisms. Therefore they should also be able to change them, like removing the water/seastone weakness.
And with they I mean Ceasar and Vegapunk. (After all it was Vegapunk who started it with the fruit Momonosuke ate)

Thing is, that the fruits were supposed to be something rare and unique. I think somewhere in the beginning there was said, that there is only a total of 100 fruits at all.
So having a fruit equals 'beeing a guy who matters in this world'. Now it just becomes kind of normal. It's like the complete OP world is suddenly turned upside down.
Until know, the author more or less avoided the usual Shounen clichee of ever increasing powerlevels, but this seems like a step in this direction.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I believe I understand your argument well enough.... basically, you think that the introduction of "fake" devil fruits will cheapen the impact of the real ones, yes? If so, I totally get that! And under different circumstances, I might even agree with you. However, it's not like Oda ever really stated that it wasn't possible to replicate the fruit's powers (which we already had a hint of anyway with the Kumabot's lasers being based on Kizaru's). And it's pretty clear that the fruits were something that were heavily researched for a long time anyway.... if that weren't the case, there wouldn't be a devil fruit encyclopedia in existence, would there not?

So why wouldn't people like CC and Vegapunk have at least a slight understanding of their mechanisms?

But with that being said, I think we shouldn't be quick to judge whether or not the Smiles are perfect or even something that's improved upon when compared to the real deal. Like for instance, is the Smile's power permanent? Temporary? Weak to the ocean/seastone as you pointed out? Are they stronger or weaker than their original counterparts? Until those particular questions are answered, I personally don't see a reason to believe that the Smiles, in any fashion, undermine the original devil fruits (especially since they're currently only restricted to zoan-types, anyway).....

ashesatdusk · 2012-11-22, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Until know, the author more or less avoided the usual Shounen clichee of ever increasing powerlevels, but this seems like a step in this direction.

If they are able to create Zoans, there shouldn't be much problems to create other types as well. It may just be a matter of time. And then we will have whole armies of Enel's or Akainus.

I think your jumping to conclusions. We do not know anything definitive about the artificial devils fruit. Your assumption is that this is a replication of existing devils fruits, but its quite plausible that the smile fruit doesn't grow naturally. If thats the case its not natural to assume they can simply replicate fruits that exist naturally.

We also do not know if the artificial devils fruits suffer from their own limitations? From the pictures in the manga I could easily see a scenario where those who consume the fruit, go into something similar to chopper's monster point and cannot revert back. That would make some-one an army of mind-less monsters. I think we saw some-examples of Zoan's that couldn't revert back during the break in Impel Down.

2012-11-20, 21:05	Link #25
SilverSyko Okuyasu the Bird Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Age: 32	I'm pretty sure the only Yonkou we can really rule out is Shanks. It could be any of the other 3 really. Big Mom is still possible, because even though we've already seen some of her men, the only one we know who has a Devil Fruit is Pekoms and his was a turtle Zoan, so her crew can't be completely ruled out. We know next to nothing about Kaidou and his crew at the moment, so anything goes there, which is why it's likely most assume this relates to him. Finally, Blackbeard has been said by Jinbei to be seeking and recruiting powerful devil fruit users into his crew, so he can't really be ruled out either. __________________

2012-11-21, 14:29	Link #35
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	But maybe the process to create a zoan type fruit is just easier. I mean, when it comes down to it, all zoan fruits work exactly the same. They just have different animals. There's even multiple types of the same animal fruit. Similar things may be said about Logia fruits. Still, making a person transform into an animal seems less difficult than turning their body into a single type of energy/matter. Paramecia fruits can be radically different from one another. Note, that's just my thoughts on it. Last edited by Dengar; 2012-11-22 at 05:37.

2012-11-20, 18:34	Link #21
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	To be completely fair, 70% of the guys who actually matter in this world are already ability users to begin with.

2012-11-20, 19:50	Link #23
grey_1960 Annie Leonhart Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Indiana	Chapter 689 That was a fun chapter. A army of devil fruit user was the most logical step. It is the only way to compete against the armies of Kuma bots out there now. Luffy already pissed off one yonkou (Big Mamma) and trying to go after another (I am thinking it is Black Beard), why not add a third (If it is Kaidou) just for shits and giggles. Yonkous I am curious of how Luffy and the crew will fair with the Yonkous coming after them. For better or for worse I won't be surprised if Luffy fights with one of the Yonkou early in the New World (Maybe the second or the third Island in the New World). Ace met with Shanks and fought white beard early on in his career. Those were some heavy hitters. Ace was Lucky to have met those two yonkous first. But Luffy is really in the head winds because his only alley is Shanks. His odds of meeting a bad Yonkou first is greater, especially with all the events that have unfolded since his entrance into the new world. If this whole secret Island thing comes on unraveled, it might delay or put a wrench in one of the Yonkou's plans. Also tip off the WG of what one of the Yonkous are doing. This would also put Daflamingo in a pickle. Which will only put Luffy on another Yonkou kill list. Which Yonkou will Luffy fight with first and how early?

2012-11-21, 09:35	Link #30
golgo13 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: cali	I wonder if the reason that the fruit types are all zoans is because they can kill animals and capture their "essence" in a fruit in the process. Maybe this is what SAD allows and the factory is where the transfer takes place. Harder to do that with rubber and inanimate objects. Although Vegapunk was able to feed a fruit to a sword. Hmm I wonder if the fruit the sword ate was man-made? Caribou landed on Kaidou's island. The mountains in the background have finished "building". I wonder what that means for the fate of X Drake and Kaidou's subordinate Scotch. It looks like the kids have been pacified and that Mocha was saved? That was a bit anti-climactic with Mocha, hopefully there are some more details in the coming chapters. Did Luffy hit CC twice in the last panel? His left arm is cocked rather than his right.

2012-11-21, 14:15	Link #33
golgo13 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: cali	Does the manufacturing of artificial fruits allow for duplicate fruits? Will Luffy face a dark-Luffy one day?

2012-11-21, 15:20	Link #37
peterim09 Junior Member Join Date: May 2012	The Yonkou with the Zoan army could be Kaidou, but it could also be Big Mam cuz remember when Big Mam doesnt get her sweets she sends the "Beasts of Big Mum's crew" to go and destroy the island.