The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 13]

[CELESTRIAL-HARDRAVE]

This episode was absolutely fantastic !
It was so great to Tsuruya again, since she was in like 2 episodes in the first season of the show, would of been a little better if she did more then just laugh, but just seeing her laugh made me laugh halve the time.

The " scene " was so extremely epic, the emotions of the characters really shinned. I think it was one of the first times i was slowly beginning to feel anger towards to Haruhi, she really is going sick from power.
Im really liking how this " arc " is playing out, i had no idea the movie had so much depth into it. I had read about all the little paranormal incidents that occured, but i didn't know how much of a massive problem it was. At any rate, im really looking forward to seeing how this all winds up.

Fantastic episode !!!!

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

... Are you calling Haruhi a relatively normal person?

Absolutely, take away the powers and the extreme situations of the anime and the character that is left is a fairly basic talented high school kid who is slightly socially akward and insecure about her feelings. Which results in escapism and competative behaviour. She also clings to her only real friend (at least from her perspective) but acts aloof as not to show vulnerability, again fairly normal behaviour.

[-Sho-]

Just watch this episode :

FINALLY ! Kyon did it !!! He was gonna shut this annoying mouth of Suzumyia ! lol I put 9/10 because of that
I mean , come on , the way she treated Asahina was horrible . Kyon did a great job ^^ well , the punch was a little abused hopefully Itsuki stopped him . But still one blow in Haruhi's face XD Well , in the end , it was already settle up .
Hope , she understand her mistake .

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Bri

Absolutely,

Absolutely not.

Haurhi is obsessed about aliens, espers, sliders, and time travelers. That alone is pretty unique.

She's exceptionally assertive, quite courageous, very theatrical, can be a very good detective at times, almost never lets her emotional guard down, has an incredible talent for procuring expensive items at no monetary cost, has an unbelievable degree of energy and zeal, is insanely competitive, has a keen sense of aesthetics and style, is one of the most domineering characters in all of anime, and... I could go on for ages.

She is not even remotely close to a normal girl... she is absolutely unique. And that's what is great about her.

Edit: I thank you for answering my question, all the same.

[zriL]

Normality for humans is to be unique, no ?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by zriL

Normality for humans is to be unique, no ?

When it comes to interests and how one interacts with others... no, normality for humans is not about being unique. The vast majority of people naturally flock towards the most popular common interests... this is partly what makes them common interests in the first place. People love to be bandwagon jumpers.

Also people tend to want to fit in, and be seen as part of the crowd, or at least as part of a particular niche community. Haruhi was quite willing to be an eccentric loner until she met another loner by the nickname of Kyon. Haruhi takes pride in standing apart from the crowd, and being her own person even if it costs her friendship with other people.

Haruhi's interests are not normal; not to the extent that she cares about them anyway.

A normal girl would not try out every club in school and find it impossible to enjoy being in either one. A normal girl would not co-opt another club's club room to start up her own vaguely defined club, ostensibly surrounding the idea of exploring unexplained phenomena and unsolved mysteries.

[Jintor]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Absolutely not.

Haurhi is obsessed about aliens, espers, sliders, and time travelers. That alone is pretty unique.

She's exceptionally assertive, quite courageous, very theatrical, can be a very good detective at times, almost never lets her emotional guard down, has an incredible talent for procuring expensive items at no monetary cost, has an unbelievable degree of energy and zeal, is insanely competitive, has a keen sense of aesthetics and style, is one of the most domineering characters in all of anime, and... I could go on for ages.

She is not even remotely close to a normal girl... she is absolutely unique. And that's what is great about her.

Edit: I thank you for answering my question, all the same.

I know many people who are just as obsessive but over different areas (I exist in the anime fandom, after all).

Mind you, most of them don't quite have Haruhi's... drive.

[zriL]

According to your conception of normality, I agree she isn't normal.

But normality doesn't necessarily mean following the crowd. What "normality" is is a whole debate... and i'm going to bed

(it's 2:30 am in France)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Jintor

I know many people who are just as obsessive but over different areas (I exist in the anime fandom, after all).

Mind you, most of them don't quite have Haruhi's... drive.

It's not the obsession in and of itself that makes Haruhi unique (although your point about her drive is important)... it's what she's obsessed over.

We're talking about a girl that actually stood up in class during classroom introductions and said, "I don't have any interest in ordinary people. If anyone here is an alien, time traveler, slider, or esper, please, come see me! That is all."

I mean... how more abnormal can a schoolgirl get?

[Jintor]

It's just a more extreme version of saying "I really like Yaoi" to a room full of strangers who don't know you imho.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Jintor

It's just a more extreme version of saying "I really like Yaoi" to a room full of strangers who don't know you imho.

Good point.

That's abnormal too, quite frankly.

There's nothing necessarily wrong with being abnormal. In fact, the world would be an awfully boring place with out abnormal people... and with out extraordinary characters like Haruhi.

[mokuseimaru]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Absolutely not.

Haurhi is obsessed about aliens, espers, sliders, and time travelers. That alone is pretty unique.

She's exceptionally assertive, quite courageous, very theatrical, can be a very good detective at times, almost never lets her emotional guard down, has an incredible talent for procuring expensive items at no monetary cost, has an unbelievable degree of energy and zeal, is insanely competitive, has a keen sense of aesthetics and style, is one of the most domineering characters in all of anime, and... I could go on for ages.

She is not even remotely close to a normal girl... she is absolutely unique. And that's what is great about her.

Edit: I thank you for answering my question, all the same.

I think that it is indeed the case the Haruhi has many "normal" characteristics, at least beneath the surface. Her jealousy towards Mikuru and, as she developes as a character, her camaraderie her all the brigade members makes her normal. But this is a good thing. Because in spite of all her claims to only being interested in aliens, time travelers, and espers, she has learned to care about four people who are, as far as she knows, completely normal humans, and one who really is a normal human. I think Haruhi also has a great deal of emotional insecurity that she does her best to hide but sometimes lets sneak out.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by mokuseimaru

I think that it is indeed the case the Haruhi has many "normal" characteristics, at least beneath the surface. Her jealousy towards Mikuru and, ...

The way Haruhi handles her jealousy towards Mikuru is quite abnormal though.

Haruhi doesn't like Kyon showing particular attention to, or affection for, Mikuru.

... At the very same time, she continually dresses up Mikuru, against Mikuru's wishes, in fetish outfits, usually for the explicit purpose of sex appeal.

And then the first person that she shows Mikuru off to is... Kyon.

I mean... really now, lol.

What normal girl would go out of her way, on a regular basis, to make somebody she's jealous of look more sexy?

... as she develops as a character, her camaraderie her all the brigade members makes her normal.

No, her behaviors and interests are still quite exceptional, and out of the ordinary.

But this is a good thing. Because in spite of all her claims to only being interested in aliens, time travelers, and espers, she has learned to care about four people who are, as far as she knows, completely normal humans, and one who really is a normal human.

Only because three of them go along with her unquestioningly, and the other one (Kyon) actually shares her unique interests to a degree. They provide convenient subordinates for Haruhi... Haruhi even calls them subordinates. Now, over time, she grows to care about them (Kyon in particular), yes.

But even the most extraordinary of people will gradually come to care about the people that he or she are constantly around.

I think Haruhi also has a great deal of emotional insecurity that she does her best to hide but sometimes lets sneak out.

That may very well be true. I don't see that as having much bearing on how normal or not she is, though.

[mokuseimaru]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The way Haruhi handles her jealousy towards Mikuru is quite abnormal though.

Haruhi doesn't like Kyon showing particular attention to, or affection for, Mikuru.

... At the very same time, she continually dresses up Mikuru, against Mikuru's wishes, in fetish outfits, usually for the explicit purpose of sex appeal.

And then the first person that she shows Mikuru off to is... Kyon.

I mean... really now, lol.

What normal girl would go out of her way, on a regular basis, to make somebody she's jealous of look more sexy?




No, her behaviors and interests are still quite exceptional, and out of the ordinary.




Only because three of them go along with her unquestioningly, and the other one (Kyon) actually shares her unique interests to a degree. They provide convenient subordinates for Haruhi... Haruhi even calls them subordinates. Now, over time, she grows to care about them (Kyon in particular), yes.

But even the most extraordinary of people will gradually come to care about the people that he or she are constantly around.




That may very well be true. I don't see that as having much bearing on how normal or not she is, though.

How shall I put this...her behavior, how she expresses her emotions, is indeed quite abnormal. But on the inside, her emotions are, I think, quite the same as an average teenage girl; it's the actions they prompt that are outrageous. You could say that her mind is quite strange but her heart is just like anyone else's.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by mokuseimaru

How shall I put this...her behavior, how she expresses her emotions, is indeed quite abnormal. But on the inside, her emotions are, I think, quite the same as an average teenage girl; it's the actions they prompt that are outrageous. You could say that her mind is quite strange but her heart is just like anyone else's.

Yes, that I'm pretty sure I would agree with.

It's fairly obvious to me that what Haruhi needs more than anything (and this is going to sound quite hokey, but it's the truth, I think)... is love.

And acceptance/support/friends.

Haruhi's heart works normally, as we see by her reactions to her fight with Kyon, and her strong reaction to his uplifting of her later on. Her mind is quite strange, though.

It's this combination of the two that helps to make her unique.

[EGFontanilla]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Kyon doesn't HAVE to have Haruhi follow his values, but if that's what Haruhi wants then Kyon doesn't need to stay by her side either. Sure, if Haruhi wants to magically make Kyon love her, so be it, but she knows how meaningless that would be.

Kyon has been a member of SOS-dan by his own free will. He can walk out by his own free will. No God or Devil is going to tell him otherwise. If Haruhi want Kyon to ever talk to her again, she better learn some ground rules.

If Haruhi wants a relationship, she would get one. There is a price to pay for that, god or not.

Really? If he really does leave, Haruhi could just wish him back ..

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by EGFontanilla

Really? If he really does leave, Haruhi could just wish him back ..

I think that there's strong reason to believe that Haruhi can not manipulate the free will of others; that this exists outside of her control.

If Haruhi could manipulate the free will of others, Mikuru would almost certainly be less resistant to Haruhi's dressing her up, and Kyon would not have objected so pronouncedly to what Haruhi was doing to Mikuru.

[Jeph]

This episode convinced me that Sighs was worth animating. I am now content to wait a bit longer before we get to see Disappearance.

[EGFontanilla]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that there's strong reason to believe that Haruhi can not manipulate the free will of others; that this exists outside of her control.

If Haruhi could manipulate the free will of others, Mikuru would almost certainly be less resistant to Haruhi's dressing her up, and Kyon would not have objected so pronouncedly to what Haruhi was doing to Mikuru.

True.

I would like to think that Haruhi does have the ability to change and manipulate others but hasn't done so with Mikuru and Kyon because she likes them the way they are already .. -u-

[Sho-tan]

Originally Posted by EGFontanilla

True.

I would like to think that Haruhi does have the ability to change and manipulate others but hasn't done so with Mikuru and Kyon because she likes them the way they are already .. -u-

That's right, it would be boring to have anyone and everyone be completely loyal to you. Haruhi's got Koizuimi for that.