Madoka Magica - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll

[Mangz]

@Mentar

To be fair, this is my first time posting on a Madoka discussion (I usually lurk these forums). It's impossible for me to be "changing my tune" when I haven't said anything to begin with. I actually think the scriptwriter has been doing a great job thusfar myself. I am not saying that I think Madoka's story isn't compelling, simply that I would have personally preferred Kyubey being handled differently than they did.

It simply comes down to opinion here. As I said, I probably wouldn't even feel this way if they didn't point in the direction of Kyubey being evil as strongly as they did for as long as they did. I would have liked a little more subtlety. That's all there is to it really. I realize that you don't feel they pushed the evil side as strongly as I feel they did. I don't think any point either of us could make would cause the other to change their opinion.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No, I'm done. The revelations made in this episode make Kyubey indefensible.

Needless to say, I'm pretty disappointed that the anime went in such a predictable direction. However, at least they didn't leave the big reveal for the last episode, so the ending itself might contain a surprise or two.

The reason why we think it's predictable is because there was such a HUGE fanbase guessing where the series was headed to. Someone was going to get it sooner or later and it really is the whole fanbase vs Gen by himself.

[Fishbait]

This episode.....argh Madoka...how could you leave her.......

[Myssa Rei]

Spoiler for Random Observation:

Wouldn't it be ironic if Hitomi and Kyousuke were REALLY just talking about how Sayaka was so slow with her feelings? Because it would mean that Sayaka just damned herself over nothing.

Another thing... Notice how Sayaka's body was just blown away near the end? What happens to the cast-off shell of a Magic Girl when they go 'dark'?

[vdaysnowstorm]

Does it say how far from the future Homura is … she’s not Madoka’s daughter is she O_O?!?!?!
EDIT:forget it, after watching this ep I highly doubt that's true -_-'

Also if Homura’s from the future and wants to stop Madoka from becoming a magical girl that would mean that in her future Madoka did become one and something bad happened (wouldn’t it). QB said she had great potential maybe he was talking about her potential to become a strong witch?

This ep was beautiful !!!~

[Midonin]

Spoiler for Madoka Magica 08 - Sora-iro no Yakusoku:

So "Kyubey" is short for "Incubator". Given the design of the Seeds and the weird thing he did with his back earlier, that much should've been clear. That he can't be killed even after being pretty surely killed...wow. Equally wow was seeing Sayaka turn into a witch. Not that it happened, mind you, but seeing it. The weird visuals and all. Even if this is the worst of the worst, I'll still hold out hope. Magical girls, no matter what world they come from, have always had the power to purify something. And if powers are linked to wishes, Madoka, you may be a trump card yet.

[cat_monster]

Ahhhhhhhhh!! OMG! OMG! OMG!

Spoiler for ep8:

Kyubey ate himself!!!!!!!
I watched that scene with my mouth agape.
What a creepy creature. He's more than creepy.
And his that last words....I can't help but look on him as the very enemy for Madoka.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Please, guys. THAT complaint can't hold water in ANY way. There were predictions going in all directions. In the end, some of them HAVE to be proven right, and the others wrong. There's no way around that, and there's no pleasing everyone.

I feel that on this board, people close to my position have been tl;dr textwalled by the vigorous QB response team, who have insisted that things were completely ambiguous and that there were many possible explanations for what was depicted. Personally I disagreed with this assessment, but that's what this side has been saying. So please don't suddenly change your tune and claim that the show was too obviously "QB is evil" all along.

I am of those who enjoyed the show in a more casual way. Back then, when the show was announced, I jumped on the boat by hoping that it will be NOT another Nanoha, as I am one of those who 1. have grown frustrated with Strikers (I litterally had to FORCE MYSELF to watch the eight last episodes, and even then, it took me two months because it was such a drag) 2. Rolled my eyes in disgust over the mechanization of the show to the expense of what appeared magical.

I did not even recall who was Gen. So, I started watching the thing along with friends in IRC. And episode three came along, and oh boy, I was surprised and my jaw dropped when someone reminded me who Gen was.

Since then the ride had been fun for me, so was discussing the references and speculations with panzerfan and other folks in IRC.

[Sol Falling]

Ah, ah. Can't believe I've spoiled myself. On such a major issue too. Dunno what to say right now.

I'm gonna have to wait for the subs. Particularly as to what being an "Incubator" means. The possibility that Kyuubey's behind WalpurgisNacht still remains, but if that's really the big bad event to close off the series then I can't imagine why Kyouko has also heard of it (and thinks beating it isn't impossible).

Not that I'm gonna defend this vigorously at this point, but on the condition that the reveal this episode is solely that dead/broken MGs become witches, and does not actually say anything as to Kyuubey having evil/malicious intentions, then for me there still exists the possibility that Kyuubey is objectively good/neutral. As it is right now, mahou shoujos are still the only existence we know of that can deal with witches, and even if MGs do turn into witches, we also know that the witch threat will grow on its own (if Kyouko's experience that familiars generate their own Grief Seeds can be taken to be certain). So even if Kyuubey does in fact appear to take pleasure from feasting upon Grief Seeds or (by extension) human suffering, his actions on the whole could still possibly be said to be keeping back/containing grief/sadness.

In any case, I really do have to agree that even with this development thus far this series still seems to have had pretty awesome writing. At only 4 episodes left, we really needed to get this whole Sayaka issue out of the way to start setting up the climax. If the conclusion of that thread could be wrapped up in a way that it also in itself starts setting up the climax, then that really does quite a lot to show the story's strength in terms of thematic consistency. I applaud Gen for getting this out of the way so quickly; it promises a lot more exciting things to come.

If Homura really is some sort of time traveller/world jumper, btw, I'm gonna have to start putting some serious credence in the "Homura's the cat" theory. The cat in the OP is simply too randomly notable that I can't really imagine another way to work it in here.


Also, finally, this revelation does make pretty clear the significance of the manga's tagline ("Darkness cannot defeat darkness. Only light can defeat true darkness"--something like that). Now that MGs and witches have been explicitly connected, Kyuubey's method obviously does not really reduce suffering. At best it could possibly contain it. So if we are gonna see any hope out of this story, then it'll be some sort of other “light" that does it.

[estdesoda]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Water takes the form of the recipient, if water can be polluted it also can be cleansed.

Of course, thats the way I see their souls and the cycle to become one or other.

You can get a broken egg back into another egg..only by feeding the egg to a chicken and have the chicken use the nutrient to make another egg.

Umm. Doesn't that sounds like QB?

NIGHTMARE this episode gave me. Even through people guessed it already, but still. You know it's coming, and it came.

[totoum]

A lot of fan theories being confirmed in episode 8 is a whole lot different from them coming true in the last episode,more questions arise from the answers and new speculation will arise.

[Fishbait]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Also, finally, this revelation does make pretty clear the significance of the manga's tagline ("Darkness cannot defeat darkness. Only light can defeat true darkness"--something like that). .

Err...you do know you just butchered a quote of Martin Luther King Jr right....that's where the manga slogan is from in case you didn't know.

[Elestia]

Well it looks like the defendant himself has confessed to his crimes, not with words, but with action. It was a good debate with a lot of fruitful arguments, but in the end one of the divided camps had to be right to a certain degree than the opposing group. I personally had a lot of fun with the amount of time spent on these boards and the amount of effort put into these posts. It's been a long time since I seen such amount of passion and emotion in any series. That's one of the ways people can further enjoy and see things in a new light that unlocks another dimension to satisfying our intellects.

Now onto the episode:
UUUUUUUUUUUUUROOOOOOOOOOOOOBOOOOOOOOOOOOOCHIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII III!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Fishbait

Err...you do know you just butchered a quote of Martin Luther King Jr right....that's where the manga slogan is from in case you didn't know.

lol, serious? Actually, no I didn't. I could make excuses that I'm Canadian and Chinese, but indeed, please excuse my ignorance.

[Mentar]

Okay, watched the episode after all

Fantastic execution of the "turning witch" scene. Simply fantastic. Urobuchi/Shinbo/Kajiura, I salute you for a most supreme experience.

Okay, so ep9 will be Kyoko-centered. And I hope that this episode also is the starting point of the Homura backstory. It's CLEAR by now that Madoka and her met in the past, and more and more it's becoming clear that at the very least from Homura's side it's _intense_, desperate love.

A possible alternative explanation would be that having Madoka contract would cause a later disaster, but I don't quite think so. Homura's devotion is very VERY personal here. And Madoka's memory blockade seems to crumble, she was wondering about having met Homura before. So, my current gut feeling is that Homura wants to save Madoka from the ordeal of being a MG (==> my guess: Because this is what Homura wished for)

So, let's see what's going to happen next ... wonderful show!

[Seihai]

Ah~ another astonishing episode. So Homura's ability is time manipulation after all. I'm glad that I guessed it right, though I'm just happy for the fact itself. Time manipulation and having side abilities such as dashing out grenades, time bombs and machine guns is just a deadly combo. I always find that ability in animes overpowered yet not invincible, in other words, very cool. The last time I saw that was from Darker Than Black's Amber, but the downsides for using the power was too much. My favourite time manipulator would be Marilyn from Law of Ueki, heh. Rolo from Code Geass was also nice but alas, same fate as Amber. Anyway, I heartly agree with totoum that while speculations were either confirmed or crushed, we still have a longer way to go and new questions and speculations which may be just as interesting or even more interesting may arise. 10/10 btw.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I am of those who enjoyed the show in a more casual way. Back then, when the show was announced, I jumped on the boat by hoping that it will be NOT another Nanoha, as I am one of those who 1. have grown frustrated with Strikers (I litterally had to FORCE MYSELF to watch the eight last episodes, and even then, it took me two months because it was such a drag) 2. Rolled my eyes in disgust over the mechanization of the show to the expense of what appeared magical.

I did not even recall who was Gen. So, I started watching the thing along with friends in IRC. And episode three came along, and oh boy, I was surprised and my jaw dropped when someone reminded me who Gen was.

Since then the ride had been fun for me, so was discussing the references and speculations with panzerfan and other folks in IRC.

You and many people make it sound like the ride is over. We are only 2/3 into the season. Shit may have hit the fan but it hasn't splatter all over us yet. There is surely more to come.

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by Mentar

and more it's becoming clear that at the very least from Homura's side it's _intense_, desperate yuri love.

Fixed. My eyes have been tainted by the copious amount of fanart of Homerun-chan x Madoka.

[Seihai]

Tsk tsk tsk, look at reality! Yuri will worsen things! Madoka said she'd do everything for Sayaka, that means Madoka -> Sayaka -> //Hitomi// Kamijou. But Homura, she... she got totally dumped by Madoka this episode! She went on her knees, cried, and told Madoka to wait... all but futile actions. So it's like this:

Homura -> Madoka -> Sayaka -> //Hitomi// Kamijou

Kyouko doesn't fit in, but food is her love so that's okay. I approve of that.*nom nom*

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Elestia

Fixed. My eyes have been tainted by the copious amount of fanart of Homerun-chan x Madoka.

Maa, it's not unlikely at all. I've had the gut feeling for a long time that Homura was pulling a Chikane (reference: Kannazuki no Miko) on Madoka. And if I got this ep right in that Homura is from a different timeline, I suspect that a major part of the Bitter in "Bittersweet Ending" will be that they will be ripped apart again, after being reunited.

So - yes, I'd expect an important yuri component to be developed between Homura and Madoka.