Code Geass Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Kisuke06]

Yep, I wonder what Lelouch will do to Suzaku... I don't think he will kill him either.

[guiltygearxt]

Originally Posted by ashlay

and he did say at the end of the recap that now he knows Suzaku is the Lancelot's pilot he's already won, not that he could bring Suzaku over to his side.

this is interesting, it does have a bright side 2 c Suzaku being on Brittinnia's side

There's a possibility that Lelouch might geass him 2 do something evil inside the Brittinnia military

[velvet nightmare]

it wouldnt be hard

geass > avoid the princess as much as you can

done, lelouch wins

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Couldn't find this but what is the exact definition of "raison d'eter?"

Is it another word for knight or protector?

[xcxcxcc]

i think that raison d'eter means reason for existance or something like that

if lulu geass suzaku to do somethin evil then suzaku would be killed for being a traitor so eitherway even if lulu doesn't kill him suzaku will die. so lulu might use him as a spy rather than as a soldier

[ashlay]

off topic:

i think that raison d'eter means reason for existance or something like that

learn that from watching ergo proxy? :3

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Couldn't find this but what is the exact definition of "raison d'eter?"

Is it another word for knight or protector?

Raison D'être
a French phrase which roughly translates as "reason to be." When used within the English language, it means "the basic reason to exist."

in terms of anime, it's basically the driving motivation of a character/something that if it were lost would fundamentally change a character. you could say Lelouch's Raison D'être is Nunnally for example.

[lavarock]

Originally Posted by velvet nightmare

was the note one of the many she was planning to write to lelouch about finding out he killed her father?

I think it's part of her diary? Someone can probably correct me.

[lavarock]

Originally Posted by ashlay

things make a little more sense if you take in the fact that Suzaku is in his own way partially insane. childhood trauma in anime does that to a person.

Ha, I think insane suit him well, insanity is the probably the only explanation for his actions. (no sane person will think his route of saving his country work).

Originally Posted by ashlay

well, shirley may have been wiped, but as you pointed out, she hasn't been written out yet. and it was either mindwiping Villetta and making her a time bomb in the rebellion or letting her sink even deeper into obscurity and despair. I do miss having extra faces for the cannon fodder though. :\
think of it this way: amnesia may seem a cliched and unlikely occurance, but it's a great way to place characters into completely new and unexpected situations.

I kinda miss the old Villetta, she's probably the only one that can be a real challenge to Zero. She almost found out too.
I think merely wipe out her memory is not a fair treatment of her. And Orange too (but let's hope he's not dead...)

Originally Posted by ashlay

we don't know its purpose. she never finished it, and the top half of the letter wasn't visible. I believe it said something about "why did the black kinghts kill my father?" from what could be seen. check this thread, there's no doubt an image of it on one of the pages.

Interesting, I think this note might come back in the end for a LuluxShirley show down. This note will probably be the key to some plot twist much later on even though Shirley found it now already. Perhaps Shirley will organize her perosonal army against Lulu? Hmmm...

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by lavarock

I think it's part of her diary? Someone can probably correct me.

wasn't part of her diary. she was writing it on a seperate sheet of paper, and CC or Lelouch noted that nothing was printed in the diary after the day her father died (nothing about ripped out pages or such).

I kinda miss the old Villetta, she's probably the only one that can be a real challenge to Zero. She almost found out too.
I think merely wipe out her memory is not a fair treatment of her. And Orange too (but let's hope he's not dead...)

you overestimate her abilities. her piloting skills are maybe somewhere above Lelouch's, but below Cornelia's group, Todou's group, Suzaku, and Kallen. her unit was wiped out and the fact that she was following Shirley instead of in one of the mech's capturing the JLF suggests she may have even been let go by the military.

the only real threat she ever posed was the fact she saw Lelouch in episode 2. she's a far greater threat by gaining the trust of Ougi and knowing Lelouch is Zero, albiet the second is a time-released plot device. but still, the memories will return, probably at the end of the season, and then we get to see what happens. :3

[guiltygearxt]

it was the goodbye letter to Lelouch

[SoldierOfDarkness]

@Ashlay

Thanks

Originally Posted by lavarock

Ha, I think insane suit him well, insanity is the probably the only explanation for his actions. (no sane person will think his route of saving his country work).

Except he's not out to save his country. He's out to change the world. Like Lelouch, he's fighting for a world where no one will ever have to lose a dear one again whether it's britannian or Japanese and to make it a safer world (When one side wins, the fighting stops). The crazy part is that he's the son of the PM and that he's fighting on the other side.

I'm not sure if insane fits it because there's more to Suzaku which Lelouch pointed out that changed him completely (Which I believe Picture DVD 3 is suppose to show us whats ticking in his head).

the only real threat she ever posed was the fact she saw Lelouch in episode 2. she's a far greater threat by gaining the trust of Ougi and knowing Lelouch is Zero, albiet the second is a time-released plot device. but still, the memories will return, probably at the end of the season, and then we get to see what happens. :3

People who lose their memories but regain some usually turn into completely different people from what I have seen.
So even if Villete regains her memory to a certain extent she cannot simply ignore everything that has happened between her and Oougi nor would she still be the same 'purist' britannian she was.

[ashlay]

I'm not sure if insane fits it because there's more to Suzaku which Lelouch pointed out that changed him completely (Which I believe Picture DVD 3 is suppose to show us whats ticking in his head).

maybe a better word is damaged? what Cecile said in 14 probably states it well: "don't you think his reaction to human lives is a little abnormal?" it's not like he's a alone though, tons of other characters, especially in mecha, have similar issues.

People who lose their memories but regain some usually turn into completely different people from what I have seen.
So even if Villete regains her memory to a certain extent she cannot simply ignore everything that has happened between her and Oougi nor would she still be the same 'purist' britannian she was.

well, people don't always end up with different personalities even after regaining their memories. (death note would be the more awesome example)

still, I'm betting on that, for various reasons (better look now, OugixVilletta would seize the craziest couple spot if it started happening more, the fact she's the only free pilot right now and Nekomimi has 2 seats, tension during Jerimiah's eventual return, Lunchboxes of the Rebellion, etc.)

[Whitemoon648]

Regarding the laughter Lulu had towards the end of the epsideo 17, i think he just figured out something. I mean i dont think he is planning to kill Suzaku. For one he is one of his best friends and also Why lulu should kill Suzaku when he can use him as a chess piece in his battle against Britinia. I mean seriosuly he is one of the ellite pilots of the britinia, he could just use him as an advantage. Suzaku trust Lulu and thats all he needs to use him.

Thats why i think Lulu was laughing so hard at the end of the episode. Although it was probably a shock for him at the start to figure out the true identity of Lancelot.

[JediNight]

Well one major point in his advantage is that since he sees Suzaku all the time at school -- he can choose to Geass him at almost any time. Probably he will wait for Suzaku to be in a position close to Cornelia etc. then when the time is right, Geass him into doing something that helps his agenda.

[physics223]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

... People who lose their memories but regain some usually turn into completely different people from what I have seen. So even if Villete regains her memory to a certain extent she cannot simply ignore everything that has happened between her and Oougi nor would she still be the same 'purist' britannian she was.

I am in agreement with this statement. Indeed, if Viletta's amnesia is only temporary (and I highly think it is), in the instance she regains her memory back she won't think of the Elevens simply as Elevens but as people too, with heart and soul. And even if she did hate Zero/Lelouch, she will try to devise ways not to compromise Ougi. This would include the order.

From what was only implied, I should think she was besotted to Ougi. Although the notes (of GG) regarding the episode was highly suggestive as to why I think so, we are able to see that Ougi is soft and compassionate towards her.

This will certainly cause her to change her perspective: she has fallen in love, after all, with the leader of the group she vowed to decimate. To add to this, she was left to die and rot by the Brittanians - it's just like the Good Samaritan. Once you realize that the bad people aren't really bad and the good people aren't really good you change your point of view towards the world - and understand even more.

She is, however, a threat to Lelouch and he cannot use the Geass on her again, so I think things will come to a climax sooner or later and it involves her. Either we see her destroy the Order from within, or we see her pair up with Lelouch (I think the latter is more probable).

I thought Jeremiah was dead ... was I mistaken?

I for one am among the OugixViletta shippers. They must prevail!

(And I apologize for this unforgivably disjointed rant of mine.)

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by physics223

I thought Jeremiah was dead ... was I mistaken?

Jeremiah was reported dead, though the more accurate word would be MIA.

The military didn't find him, and since they never managed to recover all the corpses from the landslide, he was written off.
Jeremiah's recent demotion probably prevented people from caring about his whereabouts.

Oh by the way, we know he is alive because we saw him meeting CC's former captors while clearly in reasonable physical health. (At least he didn't look critically wounded, with the most serious injury probably being mental.)

CC's former captors were working for Clovis on a project that was hidden from the rest of Britannian government. Clovis' death means they lost their only lifeline and as yet, does not know who to turn to. I am almost certain they would eventually get funding and restart their research somewhere, the only question is who is their new master. Orange could make his comeback only after that, not before.

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by physics223

I thought Jeremiah was dead ... was I mistaken?

Funny many people seem to have forgotten him, but he's not dead.

I wonder what kind of comeback will he have? Maybe given a mysterious power that rivals CC?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Nvis

Funny many people seem to have forgotten him, but he's not dead.

You know why it is even more funny for me?

Sunrise as of late has been infamous for character resurrections. So much so in fact, that we can make a small list of things for it:

1. Falling off a cliff or any other high place is completely non-lethal. This applies even if said individual was also severely injured at the time.

2. Getting shot isn't lethal unless you see a body. And even then you are only half-sure.

3. Getting blown up or vapourised is actually less lethal than being shot, because you can't see the body at all.

Now, we viewers of Sunrise anime are so jaded, accurate predictions of resurrections could often be made. Villeta and CC's survival rate are such cases, even Mao's count, though we weren't expecting him to come back so quickly.

But here is the funny part..
For Jeremiah, we actually saw that he survived BEFORE we were told he died. Yet as far as I know, above-average number of people actually consider Orange's fake death to be real!

Is this reverse psychology at work?

Sunrise: He is dead, really.
Viewers: Oh yeah, that's real funny. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
Sunrise: Alright, you got me. He is alive.
********
Sunrise: We are sick of mysteries that aren't surprising, so we would be honest this time. He is very much alive, as you can see.

Viewers: Yeah yeah...
(Next episode, 1 week later)
Viewers: What, Jeremiah died? How did it happen!
Sunrise:

[Areguzanda]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You know why it is even more funny for me?

Sunrise as of late has been infamous for character resurrections. So much so in fact, that we can make a small list of things for it:

1. Falling off a cliff or any other high place is completely non-lethal. This applies even if said individual was also severely injured at the time.

2. Getting shot isn't lethal unless you see a body. And even then you are only half-sure.

3. Getting blown up or vapourised is actually less lethal than being shot, because you can't see the body at all.

Now, we viewers of Sunrise anime are so jaded, accurate predictions of resurrections could often be made. Villeta and CC's survival rate are such cases, even Mao's count, though we weren't expecting him to come back so quickly.

But here is the funny part..
For Jeremiah, we actually saw that he survived BEFORE we were told he died. Yet as far as I know, above-average number of people actually consider Orange's fake death to be real!

Is this reverse psychology at work?

Sunrise: He is dead, really.
Viewers: Oh yeah, that's real funny. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
Sunrise: Alright, you got me. He is alive.
********
Sunrise: We are sick of mysteries that aren't surprising, so we would be honest this time. He is very much alive, as you can see.

Viewers: Yeah yeah...
(Next episode, 1 week later)
Viewers: What, Jeremiah died? How did it happen!
Sunrise:

hahahahaha
gold worth!

[physics223]

I seem to have put him at the back of my mind ... and I don't know why ... o.O