Opinions on karaoke in fansubs

[Daiz]

Fancy karaoke is still very popular these days. Many otherwise softsubbed releases have hardsubbed karaoke in order to have advanced effects that couldn't be achieved with softsubs alone.

While some people surely like fancy karaoke, I belong to the group who doesn't really appreciate karaoke effects. Sure, having fading and blinking letters to go with the music can be considered "cool", but honestly speaking, I don't see the need for eye-candy effects when the OP/ED is already supposed to be eye-candy itself. In fact, hardsubbed karaoke can become quite an annoyance when it's constantly taking up screen space from the actual animation and you can't turn it off. This is the reason I would rather have simpler softsubbed karaoke (translation + romaji [+ kanji], no blinking letters necessary) that I could turn off if I wanted to view the animation itself.

This leads me to my question, what's your opinion on karaoke, karaoke effects, what kind of karaoke would you like to see in fansubs, etc? I'm interested in knowing what other people think about this, since I generally seem to belong to the minority in this subject.

[Grv]

My opinion is that karaoke is one way for fansubbers to actually have some fun. When it comes to the rest of a release people expect an accurately translated, readable dialogue - no fun to be had there.

[jfs]

There's already been a thread like this at least once before... but I can't bother to dig it up.

I think I can claim a (more or less direct) influence on many of the karaoke effects made today, but I won't let that get into the way of my argument.

I like watching a well-made karaoke effect, and I find it fun developing my own, as well as developing tools to enable making even more advanced effects.
On the other hand, I hate badly done karaoke effects, whether that means something as trivial as bad timing, bad choice of colours or fonts, or maybe a generally bad/annoying design of the effect. I forgot which group it was, but I remember a karaoke effect for the My-HiME OP that in my eyes simply killed the opening... I found the raws much more watchable during the opening only because of it not having karaoke. That effect was what I'd call "visual pollution".

[martino]

Personally I have nothing against no karaoke effects, whether be it \k, \kf or just Triad-style. As long as the lyrics, translations and kana (although I sometimes wonder why I like to see it there) are present, I'm happy. However what I don't like is when someone tries to do the effects, and it ends up looking horrible, although this can be subject to personal preference too. So if you are trying, at least make it look nice.

[Ichihara Asako]

I don't care. Completely indifferent. I almost never watch OPs and EDs. IF I let them run, it'll be to listen to the music while I go grab a drink or something before the show starts. What groups do in the OP is of no concern to me.

[Access]

I think it's awful and should be stopped. Every time there is karaoke he thinks it's some kind of invitation to sing along, and believe me, he doesn't sing well at all. I used to be able to show digisubs at club meets without worry but now people wonder why the room clears out around a minute before the OP or ED is about to be shown. No one has the heart to tell the poor guy his voice is awful and he imagines himself as some future opera star or something similar. I feel like the concert in Clannad where they had to warn the audience 'sit toward the back and be ready to run at any moment'. So please cut it out with the karaoke I don't know how much longer I can handle that guy with his awful voice much longer.

[D404]

To each his own.

Maybe some middle ground here... ordered chapters anyone?

[KholdStare]

I don't really care about the flashy karaoke, but I do appreciate the OP and ED being translated, even if it's in normal text. However, some songs have very noticeable and incredible karaoke (Ayako's Minami-ke karaoke was really wow!) and some songs are catchy enough that I usually sing along. That doesn't mean the karaoke has to be overdone though.

[Bot1]

i do like having karaoke in the release but i prefer a simple softsubbed karaoke

[Daiz]

Originally Posted by D404

ordered chapters anyone?

I'd love this. I don't really mind how flashy karaoke is as long as I can turn it off if I want (unless the effects are literally BAD and make my eyes bleed), but unfortunately this would require fansubbers to actually use ordered chapters...

[Zaris]

I don't have a problem viewing karaoke during the OP/ED, but it becomes quite intrusive in my opinion when text becomes a dominating or distracting presence on the screen. Font size should remain small throughout the piece with a minimum of eye candy and effects, and OPs and EDs are no exceptions. The focus has to remain on the anime.

[Xabin]

I like kodaoke

[cyth]

Every now and then someone comes here to complain how the world doesn't revolve around them. As much as it baffles me, a lot of people like their karaoke subtitles to be included. Karaoke subtitles are part of the digisub culture and they are most likely not going away, sorry.

[DragoonKain3]

Personally, I could care less. As long as the english translation is available (so that I actually have a clue on what is being sung), whether there is karaoke or not wouldn't bother me at all. It's not as if I sing the song out loud then. While it's true it's pretty to look at, I wouldn't miss it if it wasn't there at all.

Then again, I sometimes find myself unconsciously singing an anime song whenever I'm deep in thought or busy doing something. And almost always, it would be the last one anime I saw beforehand, and times it occurs rises incredibly if the OP/ED had karaoke. So if you want less guys like me singing an anime song out of nowhere, remove the karaoke.

[Daiz]

Hey Toua, I didn't say that I completely and utterly dislike karaoke or that it should go away. In fact, I like having the romaji and translated lyrics (kanji is fine too). I said this in the first post too. The main problem I have is that most of the time the only choice is hardsubbed karaoke, so there's no way to turn the karaoke off. If I like the OP/ED of some show enough to actually watch it more than once, I usually end up wanting to turn the karaoke off at some point.

This could be solved in two ways:

1. Softsubbing the karaoke, which would result in less-flashy karaoke effects, since you can't just use the fanciest effects with softsubs in any reasonable way. I would be perfectly fine with this, and it would work under every platform too.

2. Using ordered chapters and editions to provide hardsubbed and non-subbed (or softsubbed) OPs/EDs and let user choose between them. This would be most likely the best solution, since this way people making karaoke wouldn't have to make compromises and people who want could turn karaoke off, but unfortunately only Haali Media Splitter does ordered chapters properly enough, so this would currently only work under DirectShow in Windows.

[martino]

Originally Posted by Daiz

1. Softsubbing the karaoke, which would result in less-flashy karaoke effects, since you can't just use the fanciest effects with softsubs in any reasonable way. I would be perfectly fine with this, and it would work under every platform too.

Unfortunately you can barely use even simple effects softsubbed when VSFilter is rendering. And don't forget, not everyone is running on a strong system...

[Daiz]

martino, I know. Personally I don't even have a very strong system, but on the other hand, I would be very much satisfied with even the simplest karaoke (think Triad style, except softsubbed).

In any way, ordered chapters + editions would pretty much be the ideal solution if they just could be used properly on every platform.

[False Dawn]

Originally Posted by Access

I think it's awful and should be stopped. Every time there is karaoke he thinks it's some kind of invitation to sing along, and believe me, he doesn't sing well at all. I used to be able to show digisubs at club meets without worry but now people wonder why the room clears out around a minute before the OP or ED is about to be shown. No one has the heart to tell the poor guy his voice is awful and he imagines himself as some future opera star or something similar. I feel like the concert in Clannad where they had to warn the audience 'sit toward the back and be ready to run at any moment'. So please cut it out with the karaoke I don't know how much longer I can handle that guy with his awful voice much longer.

I thought for a second that you were referring to yourself in third person

1. Softsubbing the karaoke, which would result in less-flashy karaoke effects, since you can't just use the fanciest effects with softsubs in any reasonable way. I would be perfectly fine with this, and it would work under every platform too.

Unfortunately, a pipe dream - while I'd love to see the day when everything in an episode is softsubbed (typesetting + kara included), the only way I can see of doing it is a program that'll support multiple subtitle tracks playing at once. Well, and linked mkvs, I guess, though that would be a CPU drainer, I'd imagine, as well as being prone to errors.

So yeah, maybe there'll be a choice one day, but at the moment, we're stuck with what each group decides for karaoke. Personally, I don't mind the flashy stuff, as long as it doesn't involve syllables disappearing as soon as they're sung because that just defeats the whole purpose of karaoke, doesn't it?

[SeijiSensei]

I've sometimes thought it would be nice to have the occasional clean OP and ED, maybe once every four or five episodes, just to see it without the clutter of karaoke and subber credits. I know if I care enough I can watch a raw, as I did with Bartender, but it would be nice to see a raw OP/ED from time to time in a subbed show as well.

[Bot1]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

So yeah, maybe there'll be a choice one day, but at the moment, we're stuck with what each group decides for karaoke. Personally, I don't mind the flashy stuff, as long as it doesn't involve syllables disappearing as soon as they're sung because that just defeats the whole purpose of karaoke, doesn't it?

i don't get this. why do you want multiple subtitle tracks playing at the same time?