THE iDOLM@STER

[Firefly00]

Originally Posted by winkel

But if you really want to know the answer, one of the interviews with the producer asked this, and it went along the line of 'Idolm@ster is apparently very popular overseas, do you ever have any intention of releasing outside of Japan?' And his answer was, 'No, because many of the idols are underaged, and yet are put to work, the perception of underaged workers might be perceived negatively in other countries as examples of child abuse or such.' Basically loli marketing is a no go.

Ah, thanks for bringing that to our attention.

No one cares about the 'sexual' problem because it doesn't exist. Only in the minds of perverted people.

Which given new life to the Shakespearean line 'I think they doth protest too much'. I recall making a similar point in a couple of IGN forum topics about the Arcana Heart titles... after all, even Freud (puportedly) said, 'sometimes... a cigar is just a cigar'.

[synaesthetic]

Freud didn't say that, it was posthumously attributed to him after the whole Clinton-Lewinski debacle.

[winkel]

Originally Posted by Cosign

As passersby, we merely acknowledge that the game is creepy for some and move on.

The point is that it shouldn't be creepy for anyone.

Anything can seem creepy if it's shown off and skewed in a certain bias. Doesn't make it the truth.

[Aaerul]

Originally Posted by winkel

The point is that it shouldn't be creepy for anyone.

Anything can seem creepy if it's shown off and skewed in a certain bias. Doesn't make it the truth.

How can you determine that it isn't creepy for anyone? we do not represent everyone in the world. I can probably find a million things that happens in Zimbabwe that both of us would agree is just utterly scary. People are scared of what they are scared of. If even one person in the world finds Idolmaster creepy, then it is creepy for that one person. It's not about should or should not be.

When you are playing Idolmaster, you ARE staring at underaged girls for 99% of its gametime. I sense a bit of delusion from the people who are defending this game - it is what it is. If the girls weren't underaged, the game wouldn't have sold as well. People who buy this game want to stare at underaged girls all day.

[winkel]

Originally Posted by Cosign

How can you determine that it isn't creepy for anyone? we do not represent everyone in the world.

I do not hold against someone's right to find something creepy. As I said, people can find anything creepy. I protest against the specific grounds in this case, the specific reason the specified person finds Idolm@ster creepy, because it is an incorrect impression.

Originally Posted by Cosign

When you are playing Idolmaster, you ARE staring at underaged girls for 99% of its gametime. I sense a bit of delusion from the people who are defending this game - it is what it is. If the girls weren't underaged, the game wouldn't have sold as well. People who buy this game want to stare at underaged girls all day.

Actually, my main is Ritsuko, so no, sorry to say your assumption is wrong.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Firefly00

...after all, even Freud (puportedly) said, 'sometimes... a cigar is just a cigar'.

C'est une pipe, non?

Originally Posted by Cosign

How can you determine that it isn't creepy for anyone? we do not represent everyone in the world. I can probably find a million things that happens in Zimbabwe that both of us would agree is just utterly scary. People are scared of what they are scared of. If even one person in the world finds Idolmaster creepy, then it is creepy for that one person. It's not about should or should not be.

When you are playing Idolmaster, you ARE staring at underaged girls for 99% of its gametime. I sense a bit of delusion from the people who are defending this game - it is what it is. If the girls weren't underaged, the game wouldn't have sold as well. People who buy this game want to stare at underaged girls all day.

^This was good until the last two lines. Not all of the girls are underaged, and personally, I don't even see that as the "creepiness"; it's the fact that the game gives you a handful of pretty girls/women to train. How can you possibly deny that this game has absolutely no moe/cuteness undertones in it? Considering that moe is often linked to objectification. I don't mind it when in fiction, but I won't stand up and scream that moe should be accepted by everyone and isn't an issue.

Man wtf, I'm leaving this thread. It's getting too hot and flamey.

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by winkel

Only in the minds of perverted people.

Q.E.D.

Naysayers - Idolm@ster is a fairly innocent game. It is not a porn or an exploitation game a la Sengoku Rance. If you choose to not play innocently, it's your own fault for indulging in your own perversion, not that there's anything wrong with that. The decisions were yours and no one else's. But do not imply other people are lolicons because they enjoy playing the game. If you find the loli distracting it's more likely you have a problem, not the game.

That said, I don't know how people are defining loli here considering the average girl in this game is 16. There are two 12 year olds, a 13 and a 14 year old, but four characters is not "99%".

Originally Posted by Komari

Man wtf, I'm leaving this thread. It's getting too hot and flamey.

Please don't take it personally.

It's mostly just random people blowing steam to attract attention. I'm sure most of the people in this topic only know about the game because of the Berserk in-joke, and it would be really ironic if the people denouncing IM@s here are singing Berserk's praises in its respective topic.

As I said in my OP, I was a "hater" myself once upon a time. Moe, IM@S, the works. My signature still bears an advertisement for SaiGar 2008, such was my enmity.

I was first enchanted by the game's music, which sometimes tied into themes of the Idols themselves. This is especially apparent in their signature songs. As a fan of visual novels and the "simulation" aspects of them, I grew to appreciate the interactive dialogues with the Idols. Through this combination of hooks, I was able to understand why moe is both magnetic and ubiquitous.

I don't expect all people to see things like I do, but I made this thread to talk with people who already understand and introduce people to the game in the chance that moe might "click" for them too.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I'm really amazed at how well you know my own state of mind and opinions on things, seeing how you don't even know who I am and mind-reading is impossible and all.

There's no mind reading - because below is exactly what you said:

The game is more than a little creepy. I wish you had the option to play a non pedo-riffic female recording manager/engineer instead of the "should be a protagonist in an H-game dating sim" character you get by default. *facepalm*

Simply pointing out the fact that the game, by default, already has the option (your own words) to not play as a "pedo-riffic", "should be a protagonist in an H-game dating sim" character, which frankly doesn't take any one who has spent 5 minutes with the game to understand to be false, does not require me to read your mind, nor prevents me from pointing out that you are wrong, or even that I should care about how you feel.

What you said was wrong and shows complete ignorant of the game. I merely pointed out the facts. Facts triumph over opinion.

[Kudryavka]

It is obvious that this game is to ogle at hawt girls. Not necessarily underaged.

Female =/= non pedoriffic.

[MrTerrorist]

Maybe i'm just genre blind but i don't see anything perverted about this game. If it was, i would have notice it immediately. To me, this game is nothing more than producing a singing pop star.


Anyway, here's some unexpected and exciting news..... for the ladies.

Idolm@ster 2 will now feature.... a boyband!

Cue fangirls screaming in delight!

Yes, not only will you produce female idols but male idols as well!

Here's the video of the boyband Jupiter.

Spoiler for Jupiter - Alice or Guilty:

Source

[Rias]

IMAS2's event at TGS came as a shock to people, as there are already huge discussions on 2ch, and even nicovideo have anti-IMAS2 videos up (you would think nicovideo being the last place to have that, as IMAS is one of the 3 early pillars of nicovideo):

1. Confirmed that Ritsuko's unit will not be usable (not even after you beat the game, but many speculate it will be available for DLC)
2. New unit Jupiter. (Most of the 360 user base in Japan are male, and potential pairings are slap in the face)

I realized that they want to expand the fanbase or get more money from other sources (as if DLC hell isn't enough), but they could always just make a side game featuring all males or something...

[Malintex_Terek]

I'm not opposed to the idea of males being produced either, but boys who could be "competition" for the male players...yeah, not a smart idea. Pity, the graphics for the dudes look good, it could have been written in with another game like the spin-off game were.

I've been told, though, that consoles don't sell as well as hand-helds in Japan. So even if IM@S 1 was one of the best selling X-Box 360 games ever over there, it's still not a lot of units overall. I can imagine Bandai-Namco's decision to broaden the market though I'm siding with the majority, bad move.

Personal view, I liked how in the original game all of the "adult" characters were merely silhouettes. I was kind of taken aback at Kotori appearing in-game, and no we've got young men as well.

Pity Ritsuko's out. Though I guess it's inevitable given more idols have come so there's no shortage anymore. I hope she and Producer will flirt from time to time at least, if only to tease at what was never meant to be.

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Maybe i'm just genre blind but i don't see anything perverted about this game. If it was, i would have notice it immediately. To me, this game is nothing more than producing a singing pop star.


Anyway, here's some unexpected and exciting news..... for the ladies.

Idolm@ster 2 will now feature.... a boyband!

Cue fangirls screaming in delight!

Yes, not only will you produce female idols but male idols as well!

Here's the video of the boyband Jupiter.

Spoiler for Jupiter - Alice or Guilty:

Source

Well comiket aside from the Yaoi Idolmasters doujins, the romantic doujins will now have the Jupiter Idols doing it with the idols...which will be a nice thing .

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Rias

I realized that they want to expand the fanbase or get more money from other sources (as if DLC hell isn't enough), but they could always just make a side game featuring all males or something...

You think BandaiNamco is that smart?
Those idiots clearly know the quickest way to suicide.

Cut out popular characters and replace them with males? When the fanbase is almost all males, and on top of that, otaku? When the percentage of females owning a XBOX360 isn't exactly high?
Make you compete against characters that were producible in the past?
Make these males super handsome and clearly someone who would steal the fans' waifus away?
Try to appeal to otaku by modifying that "Danketsu" song so the characters act out of character and like perverts?

Yeah, the money tree and stocks are going down, baby.


It wouldn't have been so bad at all if they split it up. If they didn't remove some characters.
But they didn't want to spend the money to make a whole new game.
But they still wanted money.
This is what they got.


The main question to that company...
Who is this game for?
The girls aren't going to buy a single game if only a small portion of the characters are male.
The guys are crazy angry.
The company isn't going to earn money if people stop buying it.

[MrTerrorist]

Okay, why are some saying the series is ruin forever just because there's a boyband and 4 of the girls aren't available.(Which i doubt since they could be secret characters you have to unlock just like the Jupiter unit which their website hints this).

I think what BandaiNamco did was a brave yet unique idea to expand the series fanbase and make it more interesting.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Okay, why are some saying the series is ruin forever just because there's a boyband and 4 of the girls aren't available.(Which i doubt since they could be secret characters you have to unlock just like the Jupiter unit which their website hints this).

I think what BandaiNamco did was a brave yet unique idea to expand the series fanbase and make it more interesting.

This is Namco Bandai, which means DLC and money, money, money. I sometimes don't get it at all, what is wrong trying to expand on the small fanbase, the series will be dead if they don't try to do something new to it anyway.

[Rias]

Main thing is that expanding the fanbase like that doesn't make much sense. The target groups for female and male for idol groups is different. As pointed out before, it's like:

-Having pretty boys join K-ON!
-Having pretty girls play in Prince of Tennis
-Pretty boys + pants in strike witches
-Pretty boys showing up in Love Plus
-Arashi suddenly showing up in an AKB48 concert, uninvited
-AKB48 suddenly showing up in a Arashi concert, uninvited

The thing is that it's an otaku taboo to have males in an all female world, or vice versa. IMAS kept it simple by having the male characters in silhouettes before, but they have finally crossed the line...

Also another thing that fans aren't happy about is the AKB48 selling style they are using for the upcoming cds...

[Malintex_Terek]

Guys, keep in mind Jupiter is being managed by a different production company, 765's rivals. I don't think Producer competing with Jupiter for his idol's affections is going to be the focus of the game, heck Producer is supposed to maintain a professional relationship only, a major pleasure of the game is toying with what won't be because of this barrier.

Now, I think IM@S' story could be made stronger if Jupiter exists, since if Producer is forced to compete with them, and wins out, doesn't that mean his relationship with his idols is stronger? Stronger even than in the first game, which didn't have a challenge in the form of Jupiter's idols.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Try to appeal to otaku by modifying that "Danketsu" song so the characters act out of character and like perverts?

What? Please explain.

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Okay, why are some saying the series is ruin forever just because there's a boyband and 4 of the girls aren't available.(Which i doubt since they could be secret characters you have to unlock just like the Jupiter unit which their website hints this).

I think what BandaiNamco did was a brave yet unique idea to expand the series fanbase and make it more interesting.

I agree, but who else aside from Ritsuko isn't available anymore?

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

(Which i doubt since they could be secret characters you have to unlock just like the Jupiter unit which their website hints this).

I think what BandaiNamco did was a brave yet unique idea to expand the series fanbase and make it more interesting.

Could, yes. However, there hasn't been an official announcement yet, right?
Then there is no point in getting one's hopes up.
And even if they did... Mmm... I don't know really how the fans would react. It's probably be DLC, and just another one of BandaiNamco's sleazy attempts to get some money.


Nah~~~
If they wanted to be brave, they would make a split game for the girls with boys. But they just want money without trying to take any risk (supposedly), so they just half-heartedly inserted some boys, and this is what they got.
Because, you know, money money money! Who cares about the consumer's feelings? Let's send out a game full of bugs, make people buy stuff with money (DLC), and then not even a year passed by, release the game again with all new content on a different console.

Oh the stage at TGS... The fans dead in their tracks, the staff running behind the voice actors, the voice actors having to deal with the dead atmosphere, the fans leaving the area without an encore or anything just silently while the voice actors peeked from behind the curtain while the announcer was pretty downhearted himself, and the dead silence left in the wake.
Great.

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

Now, I think IM@S' story could be made stronger


What? Please explain.

But here is another problem. The basic fanbase doesn't care about the story. It's a character game. They buy the games to go over the characters, caring more about them than the story. And by removing those important characters for blocks of wood, those people aren't happy.
Also, what Rias said.


I'm not exactly a fan of Idolmaster, so I'm not bothering to compare the entire thing, but some stuff I noticed.
That girl who was voiced by Yurishii and now someone else (which is why people say this incident was another one of her great victories) is supposed to be not very good with handling guys, but in the new song, she "accidentally" mistakes "tea" with "boys", which isn't exactly possible.
Another girl (the twins?) pretty much calls her fans lolicons.
There was another talking about being able to marry (though age 15, it seems), and some other stuff.
So on, so on.
Also, a lot of reusing the original song, which is laughable, for various reasons.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Rias

Main thing is that expanding the fanbase like that doesn't make much sense. The target groups for female and male for idol groups is different. As pointed out before, it's like:

-Having pretty boys join K-ON!
-Having pretty girls play in Prince of Tennis
-Pretty boys + pants in strike witches
-Pretty boys showing up in Love Plus
-Arashi suddenly showing up in an AKB48 concert, uninvited
-AKB48 suddenly showing up in a Arashi concert, uninvited

The thing is that it's an otaku taboo to have males in an all female world, or vice versa. IMAS kept it simple by having the male characters in silhouettes before, but they have finally crossed the line...

Only the ones that are too vocal and irrational. The reason that im@s is introducing male characters is because the rational fans had been asking for it for a very long time (they've been handing out surveys at the concerts and games asking for what fans thought about having male idols - I've filled one myself, so they most likely have the data to back it up). Most im@s fans don't care that male idols are introduced but care about the 4 idols that can't be produced, the outcry and petition is blurring the two points as one and is entirely misleading.

Oh the stage at TGS... The fans dead in their tracks, the staff running behind the voice actors, the voice actors having to deal with the dead atmosphere, the fans leaving the area without an encore or anything just silently while the voice actors peeked from behind the curtain while the announcer was pretty downhearted himself, and the dead silence left in the wake.
Great.

The TGS stage is by far the least credible sample size of the overall im@s fanbase since you are talking about people who camp overnight to get a ticket into the stage show. It's like asking Star Wars nerds who dress up as Vadar about what he thinks of Episode 1 and Jar Jar Binks - he's going to be very vocal about it, but he certainly not going to represent all other Star Wars fans who might just be indifferent.

But here is another problem. The basic fanbase doesn't care about the story. It's a character game. They buy the games to go over the characters, caring more about them than the story.

Wrong, the thing is im@s has a long history and game style. The ones that started with the Arcade are in it for the character due to the structure of the short playtime of the arcade game style, but those are in the minority, as hardcore as they can be. The ones who started on PSP were definitely getting into a more story driven focus of the game, heck that was the whole reason DS came about - they experimented with a completely story driven im@s game and it was received fairly well.

I'm not exactly a fan of Idolmaster, so I'm not bothering to compare the entire thing, but some stuff I noticed.
That girl who was voiced by Yurishii and now someone else (which is why people say this incident was another one of her great victories) is supposed to be not very good with handling guys, but in the new song, she "accidentally" mistakes "tea" with "boys", which isn't exactly possible.

It is actually. It's just like someone mistakenly said "I like dogs, no crap, I mean cats". Happens all the time if someone is nervous and bad at presentation, which is exactly what Yukiho's character is. The shit storm was quite laughable, it was certainly a case where the hate has gone irrational that they can't do anything to be right to those haters.

Another girl (the twins?) pretty much calls her fans lolicons.

Fits her character to a T - the twins are mischievous 14 year olds that loves to plays tricks on people and traditionally says the darnest of things. The producer of the im@s game Sakagami said that his favourite characters are the twins and the fans basically nicknamed him "Hentai" for it (you hear the chanting every time he appears). On nicodouga the fans of the twins basically admits to it too (they just dodge it with the "gentlemen" slang). The true fans will take it as a joke as they always have, those who "took offence" probably aren't even fans of the twins to begin with and is just stirring up shit.

There was another talking about being able to marry (though age 15, it seems), and some other stuff.

Hoshii Miki, who throws herself on the producer and calls him "honey", do you think that sounds out of character to say to the producer that she can marry? I don't think so......

Also, a lot of reusing the original song, which is laughable, for various reasons.

That's the only valid complain.