Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[germanturkey]

this was a good ep. i gave it a 10/10 because it wasn't overly emo. i've had enough of that for the last two weeks. Very interesting way of doing things. i was still confused about whether the real Anew really wanted to come back vs the innovator Anew which was controlled by Ribbons. we never really got a taste of her real intentions until the end of the ep when they had their naked talk in space because of the 00raiser. (this seems to be the new trend in gundam..)

I'm convinced that Lyle would have never killed her, no matter what. Since he joined Kataron and CB to fight for his loved ones. He didn't want to lose more.

BTW, Trust You is a perfect ending for the "dramatic" hangers we'll get since its the end of the season.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Narona

And the whole point is that he tends to not kill his enemies (other than anew )

Have any of those enemies Setsuna has decided to spare about to kill one of his team-mates? Seriously, I do not remember any other than Anew.

Originally Posted by Narona

That was not my point. I never said that Anew was more developed that him. I just said that his character is far from being *well* developed. I didn't do any comparison.

How is he not well developed? Hell, he's the character with the best character development so far. He started as some sort of fanatic for Schenberg's plans disregarding anything else, and throughout the series he has become more caring and open to others. He's even become the social glue of the group (which was Neil's role in the past season). Not only that, but he shows he doesn't have that gloated ego he used to have before.

[Lendial]

setsuna cant kill their pods because wed only have tiera regene and ribbons left :P. the other ones are cannon fodder saved for a later episode where they will die a rather unimportant death(specialy hilling!).

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Have any of those enemies Setsuna has decided to spare about to kill one of his team-mates? Seriously, I do not remember any other than Anew.

Read my post again. He had the skills to actually aim at both arms of hilling's MS while he was in a hurry (same situation than in ep20).

It would have been easier to aim at the center of the MS where the pilot is rather than shooting at both arms. He had the firepower, he was alreday in Trans-am. Even more since he was in a hurry because Lasse was ready to shoot down Louise.

[Captain Roronoa Zoro]

man im sick of allelujah not doing anything...i mean cmon at least he could deafeat one important person

[zorokakashi]

Ribbons' evil is so subtle, its dang~~.

Setsuna will be the ultimate innovator, well, apparently so. Whatever cant kill him made him stranger.

cant wait for uber pwnage.

[Okamidum]

Just watched it subbed.. Damn Setsuna can take a beating.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Used Can

How is he not well developed? Hell, he's the character with the best character development so far. He started as some sort of fanatic for Schenberg's plans disregarding anything else, and throughout the series he has become more caring and open to others. He's even become the social glue of the group (which was Neil's role in the past season). Not only that, but he shows he doesn't have that gloated ego he used to have before.

Exactly. If anything he is one of the best developed characters. Certainly the best developed meister. The other meisters are rather static in comparison, despite the fact that they might have had their background stories told.

[Ariana22]

Out of all the 00 characters, Tieria and Setsuna have been developed the most.
We don't need to know the details of Tieria's background to know how much he's changed as a person. Character development is not about personal data lol, it's about how the characters change in terms of personality and behavior. If Tieria had just gone from a bastard to a nice person in an instant, the development would have been bad, but his change has been gradual and very realistic. And he's changed A LOT.

[Urei]

Character changes can be seen in every Maister and not only. The problem is with the viewer to notice them, really.

[germanturkey]

oh yeah, i'm also confused at the preview. setsuna changes sides?! (doubtful he will, but still, playing on our curiosity here..)

[Freya]

I still don't get the reason why Sunrise decided to "get rid" of Hallelujah. Allelujah has been useless this whole season. Freaking Marie screwed him over.

[Hamachi]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Or you could look at it this way, Louise has improved her piloting skills and is that much better now that she can actually damage a Gundam.

I don't mind seeing it damaged, but it's just that Arios rarely has any contributions this season.

Take this episode for example, he goes out, transforming back and forth, shoots his pew pew gun and gets his left arm blown off.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Narona

Read my post again. He had the skills to actually aim at both arms of hilling's MS while he was in a hurry (same situation than in ep20).

I'll have to ask in which part of the post of mine you've just quoted did I mention anything regarding his skills as a pilot? All I did was juts to point out the situation with Anew was different, as one of his team-mates was about to get killed. There was no time to think, but to act. Sadly, the option he chose didn't lead to the perfect conclusion, but it kept Lyle alive. That's how war goes.

Originally Posted by Freya

I still don't get the reason why Sunrise decided to "get rid" of Hallelujah. Allelujah has been useless this whole season. Freaking Marie screwed him over.

Because Doublellujah was simply far too good of a pilot to keep him around. Instead, they make things a bit more complicated by keeping crappy Allelujah, and just having Hallelujah show up when fairy dust is around.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Urei

Character changes can be seen in every Maister and not only. The problem is with the viewer to notice them, really.

I didn't say the other meisters didn't change at all. I said in comparison with Tieria they were rather static. Compare Neil or Lyle with Tieria. Though maybe the events of the latest episode might change Lyle somewhat. But I hope he doesn't just become Neil 2.0.

[Revolutionist]

Ribbons is shaping up to be one hell of a good final boss. I don't think he'll end up in the cockpit of a mobile suit though. He's above being a mere pilot, and he doesn't seem like the kind of bad guy who would make the same mistake his boss did.

Idk it would be very anti-climatic if he gets chopped up like Corners while 00 is unscratched. 00 needs to be in top shape for the final battle with Graham, although I'd rather that happen before the fight with Ribbons, if it happens at all. That way Ribbons can go all out and own the 00 pretty good.

Oh well, we shall see how this all plays out.

[Dream_Traveller]

I wouldn't mind him being a pilot, though, if he made Anew do what she did by mere mindpower alone...

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by zalem

Compare Neil or Lyle with Tieria.

Well, unlike Tieria and the other Meisters, Neil never needed much development. Desire for revenge aside, he already was a quite stable and mature character. Lyle was even an improvement in that regard, as he wasn't seeking for revenge (i.e. back then). However, the most important qualities that made Neil likeable were not shown in Lyle. Obviously. Lyle was supposed to be a different person, but he didn't have any particular charm, and even less, before Anew, he never seemed to have any kind of motivation.

Personally, I think Anew should have been introduced at the very beginning of S2 just like Mileina. That way, she and Lyle would have had a more believable and better development. Hell, they could have even gone for the much anticipated spy vs. spy development, and still have romance between them. That way, both of them would have had a good role, unlike what they ended up having.

[Lelite]

Ah, Innovators. Their intelligence is an obvious reflection of their leader's name. I mean, what the hell - Ribbons? Ribbons?! I wish Rau le Creuset was here to tell them that no creation can be better than the parent.

Also. Setsuna DID say to Lockon that if need be, he'll pull the trigger. So he already had the intent to do so, and honestly, having Anew in an "induced coma till the end of the series" would've been the most god-mod-armoured, anti-climatic ending ever. The alternative - both Lyle and Saji chasing after their women would've been equally unoriginal and boring. Of the choices, I think directors went with the best one.

And I don't see how Lyle's character was in any way "out of character". When Setsuna told him he was part of the terrorist group, Lyle said "That was years ago" or whatever. I'm fairly certain that if little Soran had been the one to place the bomb (not just know the suicide bomber) and came up to the two guys immediately after the terrorist attack and said "Hey gais I'd done it" they'd have both made ground meat out of him. The difference is time. It takes, on average, 2 (Might be 5, I really don't remember) years to get over the loss of a loved one. Lyle had how long to get over the loss of his family? Compare that to under an hour of seeing Anew's death, and I think his reaction is very in character. (And actually, I think Lyle lied when he said he didn't care about his family's death. If he didn't care, he wouldn't have been "Jean 1" for Catharon.)

I did like that one guy in the Innovator sortie party that said using Anew as Lockon's weakness was "in bad taste". He seems to be the most reasonable of the bunch. Don't know who it was, their helmets make their hair all the same colour. Was it Revival?

Boo plot-armoured mobile armour. I kind of actually liked how this series (Impracticality of real-life Gundams and the Pixie Dust aside) tried to stay with some scientific thought. Tracking beam? Too hax.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by Ariana22

Out of all the 00 characters, Tieria and Setsuna have been developed the most.
We don't need to know the details of Tieria's background to know how much he's changed as a person. Character development is not about personal data lol, it's about how the characters change in terms of personality and behavior. If Tieria had just gone from a bastard to a nice person in an instant, the development would have been bad, but his change has been gradual and very realistic. And he's changed A LOT.

Tieria changed slowly? Are we watching the same anime?

"Lockon protected me."
"Lockon"
"Lockon died. WAAAH!"

S2: *Good Tieria*

That's IT.

Before that, he was a complete asshat, and after Lockon 1 saved his ass and then died, Tieria went all humanHumanHuman on us.

Let's see the Meister development:

Setsuna: RevengeGundamFight. And then Saji starts bawling in S2 so Setsuna instantly becomes nice.

Allelujah: Went from regular Allelujah to MarieMarieMarie in ep 7.

Lockon 2: Same character from day 1 aside from Anew.

Anew: If she survived this, she'd probably be as developed as the Meisters.

Wang: Never any development.

Nena: Same old yandere as from day 1.

Sumeragi: Picked up a rivalry with Katie.

Katie: Picked up a rivalry with Sumeragi.

Patrick Colasour: The immortal Colasour the whole time.

Feldt: Less crybaby after timeskip. I guess losing a bunch of friends does that to you.

Lasse: Same old immortal Lasse.

Somarie: Developed her Marie side.

Sergei: Same old Papa Bear to the end.

Andrei: Was the same since moment 1.

Louise: Went from innocent girl to whatever she is in the timeskip.

I mean seriously, can we PLEASE list a character who actually DEVELOPED in front of us, rather than having a "development switch" flipped?

Because in truth, the only character I was having an ability to sympathize with WAS Anew since she was more or less innocent and was under mind control and wanted what she had, rather than what she was meant to be. (But alas).

As for Setsuna not having any ability to not kill Anew...

Well all I have to say is this:

He better then not have any ability to save Louise, either. Otherwise, this entire gundam will be a sham of the highest order.

If it hasn't been so already, what with the completely flat characters compared to other series, the very badly disguised ridiculous subliminal political messages, the minimalistic gundam upgrades, and completely one-dimensional villains.