[Manga] Chapter 399 Discussion

[Hunter]

Welcome to the weekly manga chapter discussion thread. This thread is created early to discuss spoilers and speculation about the upcoming chapter.

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[Last of the Uchihas]

this is an very interesting chapter.

Madara lost, the Uchihas became the dogs of the Senjus, then the Senjus became dog food for Madara. lol Fucking awesome.

PLus, The Uchiha clan was about to rebel until Itachi wiped them out, I guess Itachi is too a dog of the senjus. :sad

[Rahan]

actually, I think Madara meant the Uchiha would ultimately be wiped out because of the Kyuubi incident, not that the Kyuubi killed all the Senju. (but well if even the kids and elders who were living inside the village and stayed away of the Kyuubi died, I guess it would Kishi's way to say "FUCK YOU I DON4T HAVE TO MAKE SENSE IN MY OWN MANGA")

EDIT : translation of the line that makes some think that Kyuubi wiped out the Senju by Iwanin (who is the best or among the best Naruto translators)
"And one incident would seal the animosity toward the Uchiha: the Kyuubi's attack 16 years ago."
Sure changed a lot from "And Uchiha has totally wiped out by an incident. The attack by Nine-tail fox in 16 years before."

We still don't know where are the Senjus.

[BlackShinobi07]

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchihas

this is an very interesting chapter.

Madara lost, the Uchihas became the dogs of the Senjus, then the Senjus became dog food for Madara. lol Fucking awesome.

PLus, The Uchiha clan was about to rebel until Itachi wiped them out, I guess Itachi is too a dog of the senjus. :sad

How do you know that already?

[Mr. Johnny 5]

I really dont get it at all. First it was Madara who summoned the Kyuubi to attack Konoha.
But now he is innocent and has nothing to do with it. So right now the Uchiha's are all innocent? But a couple chapters ago they were definetly the bad guy's.

In otherwords it seems as if Kishimoto really wants to make the Uchiha's look like the good guy's. Also didnt Itachi mentioned that Madara took his brothers eyes (and it definetly looked like his younger brother didnt have a choice.... he just took it) So we finally get to see chapters where the people lie! All the time...

I dont believe what Madara said at all...these so called twists are unneccesary...

[BlackShinobi07]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

I really dont get it at all. First it was Madara who summoned the Kyuubi to attack Konoha.
But now he is innocent and has nothing to do with it. So right now the Uchiha's are all innocent? But a couple chapters ago they were definetly the bad guy's.

In otherwords it seems as if Kishimoto really wants to make the Uchiha's look like the good guy's. Also didnt Itachi mentioned that Madara took his brothers eyes (and it definetly looked like his younger brother didnt have a choice.... he just took it) So we finally get to see chapters where the people lie! All the time...

I dont believe what Madara said at all...these so called twists are unneccesary...

Wait, wait, wait. So Madara didn't summon the kyuubi to attack Konoha? Than who?

[9TailsOfDestruction]

Is there a confirmed spoiler out ?

[ChojinLocke]

Madara said to Sasuke that it wasnt the uchihas who summoned the kyubi. Well that's not a lie..it could be a twisted truth. Madara did summon the Kyubi (not the uchihas) I believe but he is hiding his personal agenda (including why he did take part with Itachi) to get Sasuke as an ally. In other words I think he is presenting the truth the way it suits him better to convince Sasuke.

[Mizugetsu]

Locke could be corrent bending the truth to suit his own twisted and warped ends sound very much like madara and is perhaps well within what he is capable of but even the sasuke haters have to agree that sasukes not gonna swallow it without absolute proof

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

I really dont get it at all.

What is that you don't get? Madara is The Evil Guy, he was the root cause of all these things that happened. Now it seems he caused the extinction of both Senju and Uchiha clans. By summoning the kyuubi he probably caused the destruction of the Senju, since they were probably in the first line of defense, and the 4th hokage was somehow late (maybe him being late was also caused by Madara) so they died while trying to contain the demon. After the incident the village leaders like Danzou probably suspected the Uchiha, but since there was no evidence the 3rd hokage didn't want to do anything, however the tension between anbu and Uchiha did grow. Maybe some of the village elders did also want to restrain even more the Uchiha's influence by taking the police duty from them. So seeing how they were treated the Uchiha probably did think that they have no other choice than taking control of the village, since after the Senju were annihilated by that time they were the only remaining founder clan, so they were probably thinking that they "have the right" to control the village since they founded it in the first place.

What is still a mystery is how did the anbu accept Itachi to be one of them and why was Itachi loyal to anbu. And more importantly why was Itachi in the akatsuki (he met Orochi there) ? I'm assuming Itachi did want to make contact with Madara and he did know somehow that akatsuki is an organization guided by Madara. However in that case why did he kill the Uchiha clan if he did suspect Madara and Madara was not working with the Uchiha. A lot of explanations must be done by Kishimoto otherwise all this simply does not make sense. I hope Kishimoto did plan all this from the beginning of the manga, so basically he had almost 10 years to develop this Uchiha+Naruto (Naruto is connected to all this by the kyuubi and the 4th hokage) story to perfection

If Madara succeeds somehow in converting Sasuke to his will then we have two opposing powers: Naruto with the legacy of the Senju (will of fire and the necklace as symbol) and Sasuke with the legacy of the Uchiha.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by 9TailsOfDestruction

Is there a confirmed spoiler out ?

Yes.
Basically Madara tells the story of Konoha, how the Uchiha always fought the Senju because they were the only clan as strong as them until the Senju proposed a truce between the two clans. Madara alone didn't want peace but he had to comply to his clan's wish despite his doubts against the Senju.
Konoha was eventually created, the system was followed by the others countries and there was peace for a time but the problem of who would be the leader of the village came into play when Hashirama was chosen as Shodai. Madara believed it threatened the power of the Uchiha but nobody stood beside him, not even the Uchiha who turned against him thinking he was a power hungry man.
Madara fought against the village as a result but was defeated by Shodai and thought to be dead, Nidaime made the Uchiha the Konoha Police Force, officially as a display of trust but really to keep an eye on them according to Madara. At this point the Uchiha were nothing but subordinates to the Senju from Madara's point of view and a few Uchiha who came to agree with him but it was too late.
Things went like this until the attack of the Kyubi 16 years ago, Danzou and the council believed it was the doing of the Uchiha clan and not a natural disaster. As a result the Uchiha clan was segregated from the village and put under surveillance of the Anbu despite Sarutobi's disagreement.
This pushed the Uchiha to plan a coup against the village and Itachi was the one who stopped them.

It's also noteworthy that according to Madara he didn't steal his brother's eyes, his brother agreed to it.

[9TailsOfDestruction]

Madara is clearly twisting the truth so he can have Sasuke's trust. I don't believe 1 sec that Madara's brother willingly gave up his eyes for Madara, I believe Itachi's story of Madara taking his brother's eyes forcibly. And Sasuke is so gullible that he might believe Madara. Sasuke open up your eyes and don't be tricked lol, your brother implanted amaterasu in your eyes to hopefully kill Madara and to protect you DON'T BELIEVE HIM U EMO KID haha


I became an avenger and challenged village.


I was defeated...I died there...They thought so.

Even Hashirama should have believed it.

The second Hokage who is younger brother of Hashirama assigned Uchiha to police force to show how much he believe Uchiha clan.


But actually, that was to observe Uchiha.


Some members of Uchiha have noticed this and tried to execute my will.


But it was too late...Uchiha has already become a dog (subordinate) of Senju.


And Uchiha has totally wiped out by an incident.

１６年前の九尾来襲だ
The attack by Nine-tail fox in 16 years before.


Danzo and two old advisers deduced that Uchiha did it.

Nine-Tail fox was a natural disaster and Uchiha wasn't included it, but they said we planed rebellion and so on.

After that, ANBU kept watching Uchiha and Uchiha was isolated from the village.

The third Hokage opposed this, but no one agreed with him.

And Uchiha clan planed coup d'etat to take over the village.

The man who stopped this was Itachi, your elder brother.


His hell started from that time.

[Hunter]

I'm not sure Madara is twisting the facts as much as he is giving his own view of them.
Like Chiyo he is the product of his erea and the very idea of trusting someone's else power was impossible for him. He could respect Shodai but he couldn't work or rely on another clan, it was against everything he stood for.
Being the twisted old man he probably is I could see him planing the fall of the Uchiha clan by the hand of the village to prove he had been right since the beginning.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

from Madara's point of view

This has to be quoted for truth, i think many will discuss this chapter as if what Madara said was the prefect truth about the Uchiha, but they must know that Madara is not the narrator of the story but he actively participates in it.

Originally Posted by Hunter

It's also noteworthy that according to Madara he didn't steal his brother's eyes, his brother agreed to it.

An important part since i never believed in Itachi's story about a blind and sick Madara who takes by force the eyes of someone who has the MS and is almost as strong as him. However it's still difficult to believe that someone who kills his best friend for MS will willingly give his eye to someone else. Fortunately i always believed that there were alternative methods to gain MS, and Madara's brother probably gained it in a different way, resulting in an eternal MS, and that's why he was not blind at the time Madara was already blind.

[9TailsOfDestruction]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Madara's brother probably gained it in a different way, resulting in an eternal MS, and that's why he was not blind at the time Madara was already blind.

Or maybe Madara had MS way before his brother, he started going blind, his brother then achieved MS, and Madara said bye bye to his blindness and took his brother's new fresh MS eyes to achieve EMS.

[james0246]

So, wait. Hashirama was the man that Madara most admired...but he is also the man that Madara, never trusted? And since when does a wartime clan, like the Uchihas, have a democratic process that can overrule their leader? And what reason would they have to turn on him so eaisily? I am so confused right now, I need to go read the raw...

[Hunter]

You can admire an ennemy and yet never trust him and refuse to see him as a real ally.
The Uchiha clan didn't have to be democratic for this to happen, if the whole clan wants something but its leader keeps doing the opposite he is likely not to stay in position for long. In fact it's what happened when Madara finally took a stand against Hashirama against the will of his clan.

I think Shodai was a lot like Naruto in the sense he was the kind of man that everyone wanted to follow eventually (haha I knew I wasn't off topic ). Madara was a powerful warrior but he lost the heart of his clan to Hashirama.

[ChojinLocke]

Either way we gonna get an additional piece of history from Danjo and his advisers. Whether its complementary or alternative version we will see... No matter what Madara claims should be subject to scrutiny.

[9TailsOfDestruction]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I think Shodai was a lot like Naruto in the sense he was the kind of man that everyone wanted to follow eventually (haha I knew I wasn't off topic ). Madara was a powerful warrior but he lost the heart of his clan to Hashirama.

But according to someone else im not saying any names, their dreams wouldn't have lead to something good...the Uchihas dream/obssession of being the ruling clan overpowered their desire to have a change of heart. i don't agree with that assumption

"Madara was a powerful warrior but he lost the heart of his clan to Hishirama"
That's exactly where I was going but you beat me to it Hunter . If Madara was more like Naruto or had that mysterious power of changing people's hearts and way of life then his clan wouldn't have opposed his decision to go against Shodai. But he doesn't have that ability even with his EMS, that is why the Uchiha Clan was done for. No leader with heart

[tatami]

all hail itachi now...