Fate/stay night Heaven's Feel Movie Discussion Thread

[Rev Okkin]

Just wondering,
If Aniplex subtitled the Fate/Zero CMs,
would they subtitle the Fate/Stay Night CMs as well?

[Marcus H.]

Seeing the new F/SN series finally in action, I should really get to watch Fate/Zero.

[GreyZone]

inb4 people start preaching how non-VN readers should only watch Fate/Zero after F/sn (2014), as well as after the upcoming HF movie(s), i.e. asking people to postpone F/0 for 1-2 years.

Well, in MAL it would definitly happen in less than 5 minutes.

[G147]

Since the TV series is adapted from UBW, i wonder if we'll see Waver in F/SN.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

Hallo Hallo First time on a forum

I just want to clarify that there are TWO Gae Bolgs.
First is the Anti-Personal one where "it hits the heart as soon as it is THRUST"
Second is the Anti-Army one where it is the "Strongest PROJECTILE"

Shiro at the beginning was just nearly killed by a normal stab and Rin healed it with the jewel she got from her father.
Saber dodged the First due to either LUCK (which is used as a counter against it) or her INSTINCT (Rank A).
Archer blocked the Second with Rho Aias. Almost a paradox since the "Strongest Projectile" against "Shield that blocks all projectiles" happened. But since "Strongest Projectile" nearly broke the "Shield that blocks all projectiles", it is the Strongest while the "Shield" blocked the "Projectile" even if it nearly broke so it still "blocks all projectiles"

First of all, what mirakura said, there aren't two Gae Bolgs.

Second,

"Ah… Guh?"
…That's weird.
I can't breathe.
A sharp horn is growing out of my chest.
The horn looks like the head of a spear.
…That's strange.
How can a spear be growing out of my chest

[...]

"Don't worry. I didn't hit his heart. But the curse is still there.
Even you should know the curse of this lance. This is the 'lance of cause and effect', that reverses the cause and the effect. The one cursed by this thing cannot change their fate unless they have great luck."

You'll get cursed with a wound that is unhealable either way if you are stabbed by Gae Bolg. "Putting it in gaming terms, it's an outrageous Noble Phantasm that scales its damage based on the enemy's hit points." Rin circumvented the problematic removal of the curse.

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by G147

Since the TV series is adapted from UBW, i wonder if we'll see Waver in F/SN.

I would be thrilled if he makes a cameo in the final episode.

[bhl88]

And Avalon removes the curse.

[Sansker]

Stuff like Gae Bolg is why this franchise, or rather the Nasuverse in general, always makes me feel like is mocking me. They tell you something that you have to take at face value as a strong as iron fact, only to find a loophole on it down the line. No matter how you like to explain it, I take an issue when they told the spear that always delivers a fatal blow to the heart miss by the amazing power of random luck. I admit, the tittle “Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death” sounds way better than “Barbed Spear that Almost always pierces with Death” but I rather take the one that is telling me the truth.

[Rev Okkin]

Nasuverse explains itself down the line but to each of their own opinion. Battles in Nasuverse are based on the situation and match ups. There are no "certain" things in the Nasuverse.

Yes, it is named "Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death". Since it operates on forcing a change on destiny aka "reversal of cause and effect", no physical ability can help but the fate of the target also known as Luck. The Divinity of the target is taken to account as well since it participates on the stats which include Luck.

But even with Luck, the lance is guaranteed to hit the target so even then, it would be a "fatal wound" which happened with Saber. Since it would be a fatal wound, it is technically a "Spear that Pierced with Death" all the while adding the curse of really slow healing so chances are that the target will die from it.

Heck, the part about "piercing the heart" is changeable to Lancer since it is up to him where he wants to hit. It's just that he considers the heart a good target and makes that his continuous target.

[Lorhand]

I can kinda understand that, Sansker. Nasu introduces rules only to subvert them one minute later. Yeah, there are loopholes and the unique situation makes it possible, but c'mon.

"Projection is blablabla." - But Shirou's projection is different.
"You can't change your origin." - But Shirou's an exception.
"You can't copy divine structures." - Except that is exactly what Shirou does with Avalon in Fate.
"There are seven Servant classes." - We learn there are eight (with Apocrypha there are nine).
"The summoned Servants are only chosen from the "good" Heroic Spirits." - I think Rider and Caster don't count as that.
"Assassin will always be Hassan." - Then Caster summons someone else.
"You can't remove Gae Bolg's curse, unless Lancer dies or Gae Bolg is destroyed." - Tell Avalon that.
"Servants are only copies of Heroic Spirits, so if you summon a spirit from the last war, they can't remember." - With Artoria being the exception.
"Enkidu is unbreakable to those with high divinity." (CM3) - But Heracles is the exception (okay, considering his legend it makes sense).

etc.

[bhl88]

Avalon stayed 10 years inside Shirou, of course he can copy it. If he did copy Excalibur though, he'd die. I doubt Archer can make Avalon.

Avalon can even repel the All Evils of the World Mud, what makes you think it won't work on Gae Bolg?

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

I can kinda understand that, Sansker. Nasu introduces rules only to subvert them one minute later. Yeah, there are loopholes and the unique situation makes it possible, but c'mon.

"Projection is blablabla." - But Shirou's projection is different.
"You can't change your origin." - But Shirou's an exception.
"You can't copy divine structures." - Except that is exactly what Shirou does with Avalon in Fate.
"There are seven Servant classes." - We learn there are eight (with Apocrypha there are nine).
"The summoned Servants are only chosen from the "good" Heroic Spirits." - I think Rider and Caster don't count as that.
"Assassin will always be Hassan." - Then Caster summons someone else.
"You can't remove Gae Bolg's curse, unless Lancer dies or Gae Bolg is destroyed." - Tell Avalon that.
"Servants are only copies of Heroic Spirits, so if you summon a spirit from the last war, they can't remember." - With Artoria being the exception.
"Enkidu is unbreakable to those with high divinity." (CM3) - But Heracles is the exception (okay, considering his legend it makes sense).

etc.

I don't think he copied it... It was inside him, so it was more like taking it out of him for a few second. Something like Avalon can't be copied - there's no point any way cos only one person can use it.

[kenshinstyle]

That's how it is with nasuverse, nothing is absolute. Rules are made but will also be broken. If you can't stand that then the nasuverse is not for you.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by mirakura

I don't think he copied it... It was inside him, so it was more like taking it out of him for a few second. Something like Avalon can't be copied - there's no point any way cos only one person can use it.

He just perfectly replicated Avalon that was stored in him for 10 years considering that he gave Saber Avalon.

That's why we have two Rule Breakers.
One is a Noble Phantasm.
One is a guy who breaks the rules.
Caster: There can't be this many Noble Phantas-
Gilgamesh: SCREW THE RULES, I'M GILGAMESH.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

I can kinda understand that, Sansker. Nasu introduces rules only to subvert them one minute later. Yeah, there are loopholes and the unique situation makes it possible, but c'mon.

"Projection is blablabla." - But Shirou's projection is different.
"You can't change your origin." - But Shirou's an exception.
"You can't copy divine structures." - Except that is exactly what Shirou does with Avalon in Fate.
"There are seven Servant classes." - We learn there are eight (with Apocrypha there are nine).
"The summoned Servants are only chosen from the "good" Heroic Spirits." - I think Rider and Caster don't count as that.
"Assassin will always be Hassan." - Then Caster summons someone else.
"You can't remove Gae Bolg's curse, unless Lancer dies or Gae Bolg is destroyed." - Tell Avalon that.
"Servants are only copies of Heroic Spirits, so if you summon a spirit from the last war, they can't remember." - With Artoria being the exception.
"Enkidu is unbreakable to those with high divinity." (CM3) - But Heracles is the exception (okay, considering his legend it makes sense).

etc.

Yeah, I think I’ve also complained about that aspect of Nasuverse some time ago somewhere in a thread which title I can’t remember anymore. Thus I also pretty much share Sansker’s sentiment. The contrast between Nasu-rules and what actually happens is almost as bad as many shounen manga tbh. Heck, even some shounen mangas still stick very closely to its established rules without losing the element of surprise and thrills (eg. Hunter x Hunter). Of course, one big difference being the Nasu-rules & the exceptions are more well-thought out, which kinda saves itself from being labeled as asspull (though some might consider only barely).

[Lorhand]

Like I said, loopholes and situational. That includes perfectly projecting Avalon.

[Rev Okkin]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

"You can't change your origin." - But Shirou's an exception.

That's because he had Avalon locked up in him for so long, it changed his Origin.

Originally Posted by Lorhand

"You can't copy divine structures." - Except that is exactly what Shirou does with Avalon in Fate.

Shirou had Avalon locked in his body. The reason he normally can't copy divine structures is because Shirou cannot relate to it since it is something created "not of this world" and thus not know how it works or how it is made. But Avalon was in him for so long, he understands it and thus knows all about it, blue prints and all the like.

Originally Posted by Lorhand

"There are seven Servant classes." - We learn there are eight (with Apocrypha there are nine).

In the 4th HGW, it was said only to be seven because the Einzberns kept Avenger underwraps. It was meant to replace the Berserker class back in the 3rd HGW but failed and end of 4th HGW and HF happens.
Apocrypha is an alternate universe and the "seven Servant classes" are placed mostly in the main story, aka Stay Night and Zero.

Originally Posted by Lorhand

"The summoned Servants are only chosen from the "good" Heroic Spirits." - I think Rider and Caster don't count as that.

Like I said Avenger happened and so AntiHeroes can be summoned because of complications created by Avenger back in the 3rd HGW. And since it was kept underwraps, no one else knows other than the Einzberns.

"Assassin will always be Hassan." - Then Caster summons someone else.

Spoiler for This really needs to be moved to a game thread or something:

"The Assassin Caster summoned was a fake Hero and only managed to occur because Caster was a Magus but not human per se."

"You can't remove Gae Bolg's curse, unless Lancer dies or Gae Bolg is destroyed." - Tell Avalon that.

Umm it did heal?

"Servants are only copies of Heroic Spirits, so if you summon a spirit from the last war, they can't remember." - With Artoria being the exception.

That's because the explanation isn't complete. Servants are only copies of Heroic Spirits "that are found in the Throne of Heroes." (The Throne of Heroes is where all Heroic Spirits go to be kept from being changed or edited from the state that they are in.)
But for Heroes to turn into Heroic Spirits and go to the TOH, they have to DIE first.
Artoria never died so whenever she is summoned, the actual Artoria is pulled from Avalon (the island) and so what ever she experiences in the HGWs, it would be the memories of the actual Artoria.

everything is explained either by explanation, exposition, filling in the blanks or following logic based on what is shown in the narrative (though 1st person narrative falls into Unreliable Narrator trope at times)

[Lorhand]

Dude, I don't need any explanation whatsoever, you just wasted a lot of your time. I've played the VN and I read the material books, I know why this and that rule was subverted. It seems everyone ignored the "there are loopholes and unique situations" part I wrote. It's still lame to introduce a rule and then say "Hey, but this is super awesome, because this is the exception!"

And regarding Gae Bolg's curse: No, for the xth time, the curse is supposed to make the wounds unhealable. Saber's wound was only completely healed after Lancer died in Fate. Rin didn't "heal" Shirou the first time and Avalon healed him the other time.

[Rev Okkin]

Eh Sorry about that.

Then back to what I said,
Each to their own opinion.

Have your fun in the Nasuverse.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Dude, I don't need any explanation whatsoever, you just wasted a lot of your time. I've played the VN and I read the material books, I know why this and that rule was subverted. It seems everyone ignored the "there are loopholes and unique situations" part I wrote. It's still lame to introduce a rule and then say "Hey, but this is super awesome, because this is the exception!"

Ehh, since when did Nasu go with "Hey, but this is super awesome, because this is the exception!"? The fact that they actually provide a reason for that go against that rule I think.