Danganronpa 3: Future Arc - Episode 12 Discussion [END] / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Danganronpa 3: Future Arc, Episode 12.

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[Homura7]

We still haven't got all the answers.

But...

Spoiler for 12:

Starts with Chisa bringing two USB along to Tengan. They talk about Mitarai and the brainwash video. Chisa tells Tengan she watched the video but didn't feel anything (which is obviously a lie).

Mitarai's NG: Use your talent. The reason? He alone could have ended the Killing Game as he demonstrates when he brainwashes Asahina and the savior squad.

Is confirmed Mitarai was never meant to be at the meeting, which explains Tengan's surprise at seeing him. That's because Tengan actually planned out to destroy the Future Foundation with all its members inside and leave Mitarai out of it and entrust all the hope of the world to him. But his plans were sabotaged.

All Tengan did as well as his final message were meant to provoke Mitarai and force him to finally take action. At the end Mitarai activates the countdown for the Hope video he created to broadcast all over the world.

Meanwhile, Asahina is shot in the leg and cannot continue. Naegi leaves her inside a room, then she collapses. Minutes later, the brainwashed squad enters the room. In a different room Munakata tries to fight them back and his fate is left unknown.

Hakagure and Togami finally appear to rescue our heroes, and at the end of the episode Hajime at long last enters the main building.

And that theather scene again, this time with Junko as a bonus. Guess Chisa wasn't the mastermind afterall.

[Klashikari]

To be more accurate:

Spoiler:

Chisa claimed she did not watch the despair video.

And the killing game wasn't to destroy the FF per se, but to force Ryota to take action. Ryota showing up at the FF HQ wasn't planned at all, but it wasn't a sabotage or anything.

Also, the last scene confirmed both Chisa and Junko are -really- dead

Disappointment is quite an understatement at this point.

[Homura7]

You may be disappointed, but for me this episode was pretty eventful and I really enjoyed it.

Spoiler for spoiler:

So wait. If he was not meant to be at the meeting, who called Mitarai then?

And who was the one talking through Monokuma in that LIVE at the beggining? You know, when he greeted the members of the Future Foundation, explained the rules and talked to Naegi specifically and told him that this battle would be the conclusion of their stories.

I believe there's still a final twist in store.

[Klashikari]

It wasn't eventful at all to me for the following reasons

Spoiler:

All of the explanations could have been done with only half of an episode. Everything was explained with Ryota's talent alone. Tengan made such plan -without- being despair whatsoever without any compelling reason such as impending crisis and whatnot.
There was barely any reason for Ryota NOT to use his "hope" video before, nor any reason why Tengan didn't confront him for real before that pointless killing "game".
There was absolutely no story point or character development from both Tengan and Ryota to foreshadow such kind of plot twist, nor any reason to justify both actions and/or lack of actions. It is unbelievable to think that someone like Tengan would go even way edgier than Kyosuke for "sake of hope". In the end, even Makoto's relevancy is down to the drain considering he was on the receiving end from start to finish.

To make things worse, this episode had so many recycled scenes that it was painfully obvious they were trying to pad the episode for -extremely- minimalistic content.

At the very least, I'm fine with the fact that Chisa was truly dead as some of us believed and the fact she has absolutely 0 relevancy to that fucked up situation

[blitz1/2]

Please let Nagito come in and screw things up in the name of HOPE! xD

[AC-Phoenix]

'I used to think I couldn't be more dissatisfied than when junko or Chisa weren't the culrpits then I took this episode to the knee.'

This pretty much sums up everything I got to say o this

This misses pretty much everything - starting from a proper motive, to meaningful characters (srsly what did Kirigiri die for?) to a non-questionable end. Feeling no remorse to not have played DR2 here - the wrapup I was expecting is imho totally missing; Hope video being brodcasted or not.

Not really sure if I should actually buy DR V3 after this asspull.

[Klashikari]

Again, I sincerely believe Junko or Chisa being the culprit would be pretty bad because
-Junko was confirmed dead so many times in the lore, and it would be questionable that even the FF would fail to confirm her corpse with DNA check and whatnot. More importantly, narrative wise, it would just make Junko's existence quite cheap if she was as resilient as Megaman X Sigma and other baddies that don't know when to die. Junko has a threatening cult exactly because she is dead, so she leaves a legacy for other people for sake of despair.
-Chisa being the culprit would be terrible solely due to how it wouldn't make sense for her to lurk and "convert" Kyosuke while dying right from the get go, and the fact she "is actually alive!" would incur a flat plot inconsistency when you have so many people who saw her corpse and Kyouko checking the corpse thoroughly.

Honestly, I expected either Nagito, Kyosuke or Makoto to be the culprit. The former for planning yet another twisted "clashing hopes in utter despair so the ultimate hope would shine brightly at the end of the day" while the latter two suffering from split personality induced by a traitor (here, chisa for example) and whatnot.

The real culprit identity isn't exactly that surprising after all, but the motive itself is probably the biggest bogus of Future arc by a long shot.

[Homura7]

Probably because we still haven't been told everything. Have you guys forgotten there's still one final episode next Thursday?

Sincerely,

Spoiler for spoiler:

Allright, Tengan wanted all along to have Mitarai use his talent. Then what was the point of setting a NG that forbids him precisely of doing that? And why would Tengan give himself a NG that prevents him from telling lies? And who called Mitarai to the meeting room? Seriously, that couldn't have been any coincidence.

No matter how you put it, this reeks of sabotage. Would explain why Tengan's reasons for doing all that seem no make no sense at all.

Also, Chisa had no involvement in this, you say? Sure she had. A lot of what happened was because her.

[stray]

Oh wait are we still using spoilers...

Spoiler for Hope?:

I'll admit Tengan sort of blindsided me, but I wouldn't call it an asspull. If you've been watching its been more and more apparent Mitarai is kind of a piece of shit, and that nothing good was going to come out of his hope anime.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Again, I sincerely believe Junko or Chisa being the culprit would be pretty bad because
-Junko was confirmed dead so many times in the lore, and it would be questionable that even the FF would fail to confirm her corpse with DNA check and whatnot. More importantly, narrative wise, it would just make Junko's existence quite cheap if she was as resilient as Megaman X Sigma and other baddies that don't know when to die. Junko has a threatening cult exactly because she is dead, so she leaves a legacy for other people for sake of despair.
-Chisa being the culprit would be terrible solely due to how it wouldn't make sense for her to lurk and "convert" Kyosuke while dying right from the get go, and the fact she "is actually alive!" would incur a flat plot inconsistency when you have so many people who saw her corpse and Kyouko checking the corpse thoroughly.

Honestly, I expected either Nagito, Kyosuke or Makoto to be the culprit. The former for planning yet another twisted "clashing hopes in utter despair so the ultimate hope would shine brightly at the end of the day" while the latter two suffering from split personality induced by a traitor (here, chisa for example) and whatnot.

The real culprit identity isn't exactly that surprising after all, but the motive itself is probably the biggest bogus of Future arc by a long shot.

I agree on the motive thing, which is pretty much why I disagree on the rest.
Both Junko and Chisa not only had motives, but both of them were somehow explainable as culprits.
- Leaving holes like never properly showing Junko's corpse and saying DR3s connected to killer killer (least someone said they said it was)to bring up the possibility of fake corpses in is just another one of those ass pulls.
The combination with the latter one especially since it was a meta addition to the mystery that tricked people into thinking stuff they might not have thought so otherwise (note: I am - not - saying I wouldn't have gone Chisa culrpit here; The solution would have been a proper mystery, and is a repeating thing in DR) - The only connection to Killer Killer I see atm though is that the victim there died by a single stab wound to the heart .

Connected to that, all those Cure W bottles around had 0 effect.
The only thing I can think about that would give them some use now would be if they ressurrected everyone using them in Hope Side (If this is even a thing to begin with) - which would imho be worse as it would make everything that happened meaningless.
You can't even call them a red hering anymore since both them being in use and them being not in use would at this point be totally meaningless.

In the end it came down to there having been more serious mysteries in both Fallout 4 and TES, as there the culprits at least had some higher motive in addition to the means.
Going by means alone - yes Kyousuke pretty much solved the mystery by saying tengan is the only one who could have done it.

Not sure if I am just mad for not listening to my own advice (which I even post here) to ignore all other DR media and solve this on its own or because this end makes me question whether I should bother spending time on a mystery game I was looking forward too (V3);
Pretty much unsure whether V3 wouldn't be a huge waste of money that will make me wish I'd bought a 3DS andf the PW 5 + 6, when I buy it.

[Klashikari]

Spoiler:

Tengan wanted Ryota to realize that he had to strengthen his resolve and having people dying left and right would further nail that point.
The fact he cannot use his own talent would actually make the situation even more serious for him "if I could use my talent here, they wouldn't have died there...". That's why once the game is over, Ryota would be compelled to use his talent for real.

Tengan would give himself that NG exactly for cases like Kyosuke. The very fact "he cannot lie" would drive the point in his claim that everyone is potentially the attacker, therefore implying that despair is within -everyone- even among FF members.

There isn't anything that point out that Ryota was called. In fact, when Tengan was puzzled that Ryota came, Ryota himself didn't react surprised. In fact, he felt uneasy and didn't do anything. If you correlate that point with the fact he said "I'm here to meet the chairman", instead of "the chairman called me"; it is possible that he came to see Tengan and discuss about something, possibly the "hope video".

And no, Chisa has no involvement aside of the fact she provided the videos to Tengan, but surely, Chisa wasn't part of the plan of making this mutual killing game whatsoever.
Otherwise, by the same logic, that means Juuzo is also involved.

The fact Chisa is one of the reasons everything went to shitstorm has no relevancy here. The point I made was pretty much as follow: she was pretty much a lurking enemy, but she is arguably not an active actor in that plan.

And I don't think anyone forgot about the remaining episode. However, it is the last episode of an entire franchise. There is no time for yet another plot twist before the final confrontation and epilogue.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

I agree on the motive thing, which is pretty much why I disagree on the rest.
Both Junko and Chisa not only had motives, but both of them were somehow explainable as culprits.
- Leaving holes like never properly showing Junko's corpse and saying DR3s connected to killer killer (least someone said they said it was)to bring up the possibility of fake corpses in is just another one of those ass pulls.

It was -never stated- that Killer Killer was tied to DR3, and I don't know why you even go hell bent with that. They just clarified where Killer Killer was supposed to happen in the timeline, and that's about it. You are the one to blame about expecting fake corpse fooling people from a mere misunderstanding.

The combination with the latter one especially since it was a meta addition to the mystery that tricked people into thinking stuff they might not have thought so otherwise (note: I am - not - saying I wouldn't have gone Chisa culrpit here; The solution would have been a proper mystery, and is a repeating thing in DR) - The only connection to Killer Killer I see atm though is that the victim there died by a single stab wound to the heart .

Again, you are the only one claiming DR is a proper mystery. Kodaka's teams do use a lot of foreshadowing and hints left and right, but you absolutely cannot claim it is a standard mystery to its truest sense. First and foremost, the games are mostly a battle of wits and so forth. There are too many elements that are witheld against the player during the investigations to find out the culprit of a case and you have to get the last pieces of evidence during the trials. That's not what a true mystery case works where everything is laid bare to the reader to figure out what's going on.

It is also why a lot of people, me included, just couldn't follow your train of thought: you keep insisting about "mystery case" despite it really isn't one.

[Homura7]

Why so hasty?

Again, I tell you, we still have one more episode left to watch, that is likely going to give all the answers that were left out in this one.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler:

Tengan wanted Ryota to realize that he had to strengthen his resolve and having people dying left and right would further nail that point.
The fact he cannot use his own talent would actually make the situation even more serious for him "if I could use my talent here, they wouldn't have died there...". That's why once the game is over, Ryota would be compelled to use his talent for real.

See? This is the part where I say it doesn't make any sense.

Spoiler for spoiler:

What if Mitarai had died during the game? Anyone could have become a victim, be it at the end of a sleeping time period or during it. Then Tengan's plan would have been ruined.

I have my good reasons to believe someone thwarted him.

Side:Hope oughts to give us the answers this one hasn't.

[Klashikari]

And this is actually the very reason why it is bad writing. Even if it was "sabotaged" as you said, there was no reason for him to proceed with that plan with that risk in mind. And "if" the person behind the sabotage was the reason for the game to proceed, it makes even less sense for him not to tell the truth immediately.

Sabotage or not, the whole plan itself is arguably a farce in term of narrative.

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

And this is actually the very reason why it is bad writing. Even if it was "sabotaged" as you said, there was no reason for him to proceed with that plan with that risk in mind. And "if" the person behind the sabotage was the reason for the game to proceed, it makes even less sense for him not to tell the truth immediately

Probably because the original plan was to trap everyone inside except Mitarai. Then there would have been no risk at all.

This is why I think the NG bangles wasn't Tengan's doing, nor the sleeping gas ball that started it all. Because what point there's in doing the later if the one person you doesn't want to be involved in a game that endangers his life is in the same room you are? Not to mention part of this deduction comes from Naegi and he may be right or wrong, or half-right and half-wrong.

I insist. They still haven't told us everything surrounding this mistery. This is what the final episode exists for, to give answers. I know Kodaka is better than this, and Hope has been described by them as the Perfect Ending.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It was -never stated- that Killer Killer was tied to DR3, and I don't know why you even go hell bent with that. They just clarified where Killer Killer was supposed to happen in the timeline, and that's about it. You are the one to blame about expecting fake corpse fooling people from a mere misunderstanding.

I think someone stated in an earlier thread it was said that they would connect. - As I noted in the post though I would have gone for Chisa Culprit anyhow;

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Again, you are the only one claiming DR is a proper mystery. Kodaka's teams do use a lot of foreshadowing and hints left and right, but you absolutely cannot claim it is a standard mystery to its truest sense. First and foremost, the games are mostly a battle of wits and so forth. There are too many elements that are witheld against the player during the investigations to find out the culprit of a case and you have to get the last pieces of evidence during the trials. That's not what a true mystery case works where everything is laid bare to the reader to figure out what's going on.

Personal opinion: When clues are given out doensn't really matter, as long as it is before the conclusion.
The overall mysteries were usually solvable prior to the trial though; Sometimes to a despairing obviousness other times it was hidden a lot better; The best example here Junko turning out to be the culprit in DR 1 - you got a small hint at the very beginning that got ignored or forgotten by many.
I for example ingored it at the point it was given because I was like 'Nice jab towards the model industry and people actually thinking they are not photoshopped'

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It is also why a lot of people, me included, just couldn't follow your train of thought: you keep insisting about "mystery case" despite it really isn't one.

I will agree to disagree on the bolded part - it was presented as a 'who did it' thing. It was definitely more of a mystery than some other stuff that actually sells itself as detective mystery on Kindle.
At the very leastt it made people want to think about the mystery, which is more than some more straight out detective mysteries do.

Edit: To rephrase it a bit:
My issue with this ending is that it comes off as a complete 'wtf?!' rather than a 'Well it turnes out I was wrong' - Proper or not its even arguable if the mystery was solvable at all with that kind of uhm... nose pulled motive.
Even Naegi or Asahina being the culprits would have been less strange than this.
But I guess we at least agree on the ending being bad writing due to Tengan's motive coming pretty much out of the air, especially when he could have abandoned everything when Mitari appeared.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Alpha Knight

See? This is the part where I say it doesn't make any sense.

Spoiler for spoiler:

What if Mitarai had died during the game? Anyone could have become a victim, be it at the end of a sleeping time period or during it. Then Tengan's plan would have been ruined.

I have my good reasons to believe someone thwarted him.

Side:Hope oughts to give us the answers this one hasn't.

From what we've seen in Despair it seems Mitarai and the analyst duo (Junko and Izuru) are more or less immune to SHSL mind control.

Like... if you work on editing porn videos all day you're going to be desensitized to it to a pretty high degree.

Side note but I'm sort of concerned I'm actually agreeing with you on a couple of things.

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by stray

Side note but I'm sort of concerned I'm actually agreeing with you on a couple of things.

Why does that concern you?

I'm curious. What things I did say do you agree.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Alpha Knight

Why does that concern you?

I'm curious. What things I did say do you agree.

Still deciding. English subs would be nice too. But I do suspect there's going to be more twists incoming. Things could get very... weird in Hope side. Also, I'm still holding out for my dark horse.

Thursday needs to get here faster...

[blitz1/2]

ONe of the nicovideo tags tagged Tengan properly (Nagito Komaeda, old)