Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Tk3997

I’m not even really that hot on this idea as frankly I don’t really feel you need all that extra crap she was acutally developed reasonably well in the series. I’d try to avoid screwing with one of the few things the series acutally did decently IMO.

She was indeed, and I wasn't overwriting any of it. What happened was as I wrote and beefed up Vice's story, his link to Tiida, Teana's past got colored more as such. Like who her parents were (I worked more into "Lanstar Bullet" legend from Artei's and Vice's perspectives), who Tiida was as a person (also with the help of the two. Kha is also linked to Tiida due to an earlier collaboration), and how Teana developed with more OCs to interact with.

None of her emo sessions (I loved those fallout episodes), reasons (since they screamed of Kha's incorrigible recklessness) and story (apart from the Khaphia inspired crack included for entertainment only) up to that point was changed; it's just with more OC involvement, more blanks were filled in. I've had the liberty to throw in more reflection sessions from the many more of the cast who knew her. And I've made sure not to give her too much so as not to dull her Metal Gear moment.

Likewise, Erio's past got more coloring through his own recollections, along with Hiro's and Kha's. Caro's Lady Macbeth moment got worked on; Quint and Megane receive more justice; Hayate's role has been buffed; Fate's parental insecurities receive more spotlight and development; We see a deeper look into Project F and it's links to the super soldier institute that she and Kha raided; Griffith's military otakuism is brought to the front and placed on a pedestal as he grows to fit his mother's "Tankbuster" tsun and master commander rep; even the Numbers' interactions (replete with Gadget shampoo) were brought to light via some nifty espionage from the Gray Knight. But despite all this, I did my best to prevent the cheese from running away with logic.

Jail received one of the most changes as a person, as I tried to marry Satashi's and Nighty's Jail interpretations with canon. This might/might not be to your tastes, but I'm doing my best. I'm just glad I don't have to really nail it down till a little bit later.

WIth the focus on filling in the blanks and throwing in more caveats and cameos (even Alicia has a major role in the fight against Jail ), the biggest problem then came from Subaru, with no real addition over the canon data. The whole series was pretty much about her, and as such I found myself having nothing to add to her other than more mechanical attacks like big drills and rocket punches, for the otaku-wtfness. Just Mach Caliber alone is so awesome I really can't add anymore.

That said and done, I once again reiterate my promise of containing the crack, and yet work with a fuller cast, if only to bring the StrikerS arc to a promising conclusion, to be built on for my future works.

For those who are looking for references, crack and fun, it'll be a feast; For those who want a strengthened but focused remake of StrikerS, there's gonna be a coherent story marrying canon and fanon, and an ending that marks the beginning of bigger things to come.

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I can understand your feelings all to well.

however, there are many scenes in A's (both the series and the manga) that suggest the Infinite Library is located in the Main HQ, as nearly everytime there is talk about the Infinite Library there is a pan to the Main HQ. Not to mention the first time we saw the Infinite Library, during which we had a complete focuss on the Main HQ.

While those could be discarted as 'having no other base to pan on' the StrikerS manga provides the killing blow.

IS: Silver Retriever.

Spoiler for Nanoha Manga:

Note the top frames. First a pan to the Main HQ, then the library. Now, this is the StrikerS manga, which means that if the Infinite Library existed in an alternate dimension, the wouldn't have needed to pan to the Main HQ. And yet, they still use Main HQ first, library second. I'm sorry, but that just proves that the Library is inside the Main HQ.

You know, I asked three times, at the beginning of StrikerS, in the middle of StrikerS, and after the end of StrikerS, and got no contradictions. I watched everything I had, and had no confirmation that the Infinite Library was physically in Main HQ.

If that isn't due diligence, then I don't know what is.

I'm done. I'm out. Lyrical Melancholy, Lyrical Rage, and Lyrical Envy, all scrapped.

Bye.

[LimitedEternal]

Originally Posted by dkellis

You know, I asked three times, at the beginning of StrikerS, in the middle of StrikerS, and after the end of StrikerS, and got no contradictions. I watched everything I had, and had no confirmation that the Infinite Library was physically in Main HQ.

If that isn't due diligence, then I don't know what is.

I'm done. I'm out. Lyrical Melancholy, Lyrical Rage, and Lyrical Envy, all scrapped.

Bye.

If it's not too much to ask, what's so vital about this whole "pocket dimension" thing that you'd have to scrap all that work without it? I mean, is it really that critical to the story?

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by kha

(I worked more into "Lanstar Bullet" legend from Artei's and Vice's perspectives)

That reminds me of somthing. It'd be great if your fic could answer this question: Why does the Lanstar style use gun-shaped magic devices?
Conventional guns are made the way they are because they need to provide a passage for gas pressure to build up behind the bullet to propel it at high speed. That does not apply to magic balls that are counjured up outside the barrel. Even more so when Teana is conjuring up multiple balls like she did starting from ep7.
That's how other mages use their staff weapons, so why a gun?
If you wanted something more compact than the usual staff, you might as well delete the barrel and just have a cartridge holder with a trigger.

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by LimitedEternal

If it's not too much to ask, what's so vital about this whole "pocket dimension" thing that you'd have to scrap all that work without it? I mean, is it really that critical to the story?

Spoiler for Cut for those who don't care:

The basis of the story is that a long time ago, a splinter faction from Al Hazard went and made their own society, taking their own set of Lost Logia.

After a while, they decided to evolve themselves into pure information, but since their particular dimension (which may or may not be this one; it doesn't matter) doesn't work for their brand of information-without-media, they translocated their entire society into a dimension which could support it. This happened to be the dimension that the TSAB would start exploring as the Infinite Library.

The story is thus supposed to be about discovering this pure information society, and stopping them from taking over the Infinite Library. Along the way, I have plenty of notes to be inserted into dialogue about the relationship between magic and information, information and cryptography, and AIs and Rampancy, along with speculations on why Al Hazard fell and why this is emblematic of that.

If the Infinite Library is just a big collection of books, then I can't use that story.

The reason I'm irritated is that I did ask about this three times and got no objections, and only after I actually started working on it and building up a whole story outline and released the chapter did I get, well, this.

It was a canon contradiction, but nobody bothered to inform me until too late.

It's nobody's fault as such, but I don't know how else I could have avoided this but to spam the same question throughout the run of StrikerS every week or something, which I think the mods would not look kindly upon. Damned if I do and damned if I don't: I'm just going "so what would you have had me do?"

Hence, my irritation at the fact of Life Isn't Fair. And that irritation grows because I can't do anything about it.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by dkellis

Spoiler for Cut for those who don't care:

The basis of the story is that a long time ago, a splinter faction from Al Hazard went and made their own society, taking their own set of Lost Logia.

After a while, they decided to evolve themselves into pure information, but since their particular dimension (which may or may not be this one; it doesn't matter) doesn't work for their brand of information-without-media, they translocated their entire society into a dimension which could support it. This happened to be the dimension that the TSAB would start exploring as the Infinite Library.

The story is thus supposed to be about discovering this pure information society, and stopping them from taking over the Infinite Library. Along the way, I have plenty of notes to be inserted into dialogue about the relationship between magic and information, information and cryptography, and AIs and Rampancy, along with speculations on why Al Hazard fell and why this is emblematic of that.

If the Infinite Library is just a big collection of books, then I can't use that story.

The reason I'm irritated is that I did ask about this three times and got no objections, and only after I actually started working on it and building up a whole story outline and released the chapter did I get, well, this.

It was a canon contradiction, but nobody bothered to inform me until too late.

It's nobody's fault as such, but I don't know how else I could have avoided this but to spam the same question throughout the run of StrikerS every week or something, which I think the mods would not look kindly upon. Damned if I do and damned if I don't: I'm just going "so what would you have had me do?"

Hence, my irritation at the fact of Life Isn't Fair. And that irritation grows because I can't do anything about it.

Sorry to hear that

Though... if that's the only reason, why can't you reconcile the Infinite Library being inside the Main HQ with that concept? I mean, my own view on the library is that it's a pocket dimension inside the HQ, essentially a library bigger on the inside than the outside, which means it's a massive place that "fits" "inside" the much smaller HQ.

Why can't you just say that the reason the HQ is located where it is in subdimensional space is exactly because of the reasons you stated? Think about it this way: The Infinite Library isn't in the HQ per se... but the HQ is "in" the Infinite Library

Just my useless 2 cents

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Sorry to hear that

Though... if that's the only reason, why can't you reconcile the Infinite Library being inside the Main HQ with that concept? I mean, my own view on the library is that it's a pocket dimension inside the HQ, essentially a library bigger on the inside than the outside, which means it's a massive place that "fits" "inside" the much smaller HQ.

Why can't you just say that the reason the HQ is located where it is in subdimensional space is exactly because of the reasons you stated? Think about it this way: The Infinite Library isn't in the HQ per se... but the HQ is "in" the Infinite Library

Just my useless 2 cents

Because that doesn't work for my purposes.

It doesn't matter how big the Infinite Library is, it just matters where it is, technically speaking. As long as we have the fact that "the Infinite Library is inside Main HQ", no matter how big it is on the inside compared to the outside, there is no reason or way for that splinter faction to have been inside it from Al Hazardian days.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by dkellis

Because that doesn't work for my purposes.

It doesn't matter how big the Infinite Library is, it just matters where it is, technically speaking. As long as we have the fact that "the Infinite Library is inside Main HQ", no matter how big it is on the inside compared to the outside, there is no reason or way for that splinter faction to have been inside it from Al Hazardian days.

Understood

Although it's be a shame if you simply threw away Lyrical Melancholy like that, especially the scenes you've written down and posted here, which still works even without the meat of the story regarding the Infinite Library. Will just have to brainstorm some more

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Ryand-Smith

See, Wild Goose, I see your point as extremly valid, and I thought we saw little bits of that in the cradle battle. You saw Nanoha crack sligtly aginst fighting Vivio, and the potential for 7Arcs to go there is possible. Also, CH 4, of my tale. Probally will split it into a new substory but Here it goes!

Spoiler for Ch 4 Escapes, Small Endings:

Weissy, Defense! Aura shouted as Sette flew in "Protective Shading!" The devise said, as a field of magical energy burst from the device's centre. Unfortunately, Sette's cybernetic power sliced through the shield, and through Aura's arm, the tearing muscle failing almost instantly. Aura shouted, and dropped the staff onto the floor "I would finish you off... girl,"Sette began, but I have orders to go. Sisters, the device isn't here anymore, and worse yet, someone managed to activate it... Scalatti will not be pleased." She flew off in a huff, while her other sisters quickly followed down through the many newly created exits. "Weissy... " Aura began. "Cal for hep.." She fainted. "The device plainly said "Contacting medics.," and with a slight change in intonation continued with "Hold On My Master".

"I thought you were... but I .. Tevar held Nitram close to her heart, and said "I thought this time you were gone for, "I love you honey, but please, don;t be the one to end my life, "Nitram manged to say as he struggled for air. "Honey, You're allright!" But our inventions..."Nitram looked down. "Yeah, the Rabuter, and thee Falken are gone, bu at lest we are safe." Tevar's necklace, a Bright purple jewel glew with thee symbol of a red crescent. "Medical Emergency. An Agent of this base is requesting assistance of Emergency." Tevar nodded solemnly, while Nitram said stoically,. "Let's do our duty, for bravery! The two ran out into the falling hallways, grabbing a stretcher from one of the wall mounts. They set it on its bottom, the rubber wheels squealing as they rolled down the linoleum.

Master! Master! Weissy began. "Help, has arrived!" Aura looked and around her were several figures. One blurry object said its name was Nitram, and he was one of the base's researcher. "Don't worry Miss Aura, the man said as he cast a holding spell. "Bind!" He shouted, as the ropes held Aura tightly. "I'll finish this," Tevar said, as she chanted , Heben Sie Sie Sicher An!. bright white magi lifted Aura onto the Stretchers, and placed her down like a feather. "Bleeding... Bleeding.. Ah There's the spot!" Nitram pointed his staff at the clearly cut arm, and quickly said a healing spell. The White magic wrapped the muscle fibers together, but it wold still take time for the real healing to being, he thought. "Lets take you to the medical wing Miss Aura, and may the winds have mercy on the invaders... your father won't.." Tevar nodded silently, as they wheeled Aura down to the temporary medical station

***

Arado looked around, as the city's great suburbs faded, and the start of the large natural zone of Mid-Childa came into view. The natural beauty, preserved after the conversation to magical technologies was still amazing to this young man, and he raked it i. Or course it was hard to rake in natural beauty when raveling at around 60 kilometres per second. "Hey Seolia, slow down, I'm gonna be sick all over your new Jac." "If you are, I'll test this thing out on you!" Seoila looked at Arado harshly, but he cracked a smile, "I kid, bu these new devices.. why did they accept us, of all people? The Wild Falken responded with "Because you are my Master, and I was made to serve My Master.." Arado sighed, "Well Falken, at least you helped us out..."

Several hours had passed. The executives, safe and sound had heard the news. The Capitol was in ruins, Riot Force 6.which some had thought was a sister branch to Outerbridge, was destroyed, In the chaos, several missing magical prototypes were stolen, and a valuable young agent was taken off important testing. However, the brass had decided to suggest sending her to train as an investigator, which would use Aura's abilities, and still be less intense than full frontline combat.

Lots of spell errors in this one, you might want to concider using a word proccesor with a spell-check.

So, as this takes place during Jail's attack on the Ground Forces HQ, and Aura is going to train as an investigator, what are your plans to tie in?

Originally Posted by Kha

OK! Now for that Drake 4...

Oh dear looks like I forgot to quote that missing OC. Sorry but guys have to wait in line... T_T

*falls down* O-kay, just give the info when you find it again, then.

Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito

Number 22: No matter how tempted I am with the prospect of unlimited power, I will not consume any energy field bigger than my head.

Yes, it's my favorite simply because the mental image in my head is HILARIOUS.

<breaks down laughing>

That, and it reminds me of a scene from one of the Dresden Files.

"It's like trying to inhale a tornado. What do you think?"

One Last Thing: Mel & Arcas are, for the most part, immune to Rule 98...

I rather like number 9 too:

"I will not include a self-destruct mechanism unless absolutely necessary. If it is necessary, it will not be a large red button labelled "Danger: Do Not Push". The big red button marked "Do Not Push" will instead trigger a spray of bullets on anyone stupid enough to disregard it. Similarly, the ON/OFF switch will not clearly be labelled as such."

Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito

Oh. Well, then she'll have a role to play in this, just not a combat one...

No combat role would be good.

Originally Posted by Tk3997

Horseshit the fact she was offered a promotion shows her career isn’t anything like dead acutally a promotion would likely give her MORE time with Vivio, but less time in the field doing what she likes. Which acutally makes it a slightly selfish decision, but one she took because she wanted too. Besides I think we can agree Nanoha is probably not all that interested in climbing the ranks to a position of authority she wants to keep flying around saving the day, you can’t do that behind a desk and if she ever decides she dose feel like flying a desk for some unfathomable reason with her record and power level the Air Force would shower promotions upon her in an instant I guarantee.

Less time in the field? Nanoha is a training officer she hardly does any actual saving-the-day field work. That's Fate's department. Whether or not a promotion would have given her more or less time with Vivio remains to be seen, but if I recall it was actually stated that she refused her promotion in order to take care of Vivio, which would mean that it would have given her more work. I do agree that her career is hardly dead, though. It just hasn't changed from what she has been doing the last several years.

Originally Posted by Tk3997

Also again we have the fact that she chose this path really after A’s she could have pretty much walked away with basiclly zero consequences (at least in the anime, probably), but she didn’t acutally she chose to get more and more involved and eventually enlist. Never underestimate the importance of someone being allowed choice in something it makes a HUGE difference in how they think about something.

The only clue we have of the 'forced recruitment' is a source that has already altered the other canon material. I think we can exclude the novels when talking about the other 75% of canon (the anime, the manga and the sound stages, which show no evidence of forced recruitment whatsoever).

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Though... if that's the only reason, why can't you reconcile the Infinite Library being inside the Main HQ with that concept? I mean, my own view on the library is that it's a pocket dimension inside the HQ, essentially a library bigger on the inside than the outside, which means it's a massive place that "fits" "inside" the much smaller HQ.

You say that as if the Main HQ is a small station, but the Main HQ is huge. The Infinite Library is little more then a really, really big library, but that doesn't mean its actually larger then the Main HQ.

[FlameSparkZ]

I'm back...

Now for some Backlog Busting...

Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito

There's a difference there, though. Nanoha's magically restricted in what she can do, but she's not physically restricted like Keroko is. Keroko's actually IN the hospital, and can't make the trip to Gaelica. Nanoha, on the other hand, CAN, but she can't really do much in the way of magical stuffs - but I wasn't planning on her doing much in that way anyways...

There IS A new development in the story though, so tell me if this changes anything:

Originally, I had planned on LegendS taking place Late October-November of 0075, barely a month after the Cradle Showdown.

However, considering other timelines in play here (yours, Kha's, Aaron's, Satty's, and FlameSparkZ's), I have decided to bump back the timeline.

LegendS NOW takes place during December 0075-January 0076.

Furthermore, for reasons that will not become apparent until the story, the combat personnel of MD6 (Stars & Lightning Squads, Hayate, the Wolkies, Rein & Agito, and FlameSpark's Maren & the Minawas) will not arrive on Gaelica until near the halfway point in the story, and halfway in calendar time. So, they'll arrive maybe 5~6 days before Christmas. That gives them three months between the Cradle Showdown and leaving for Gaelica.

As stated before, IF this changes anything, let me know.


TO AARON, KHA, SATTY, and FLAMESPARKZ:

Please read the above comments to Keroko on the change in timeline - and let me know for the following characters if their status changes:

Kha der Kleriker: Unavailable due to Cradle Showdown; recovering

Sophia Alexei: Available

Artei: Available

Kaempfer: Unavailable due to Saint Church assignments

Allison Ford: Unavailable due to Saint Church assignments

Aurion Dauer: Available

Sky Squad of the 216th Battalion: Available

Maren: Available

Koji Minawa: Available

Yui Minawa: Available

Hmm...December huh?
Sore wa komaru ~desu hai...I was planning a vacation for them back on Earth
But crime never sleeps...

Originally Posted by Kha

I think there's something worse:

Artei: Kage ni NAAAREEEEEEEEEE!!!

*runs after Flames-sama*

How about...

Spoiler for option:

????: Yami ni KAEROOOOOOO!!!

Originally Posted by Kha

One more reminder why we call them "Trap".

True

Originally Posted by Kha

All the same, but Kaempfer is busy due to Celestial Being assignments, as well as looking after his 1000 whelps.

Allie is free, as she is now part of Riot 6, so anything that applies to her would apply to R6. See below:

Spoiler for status:

~~~New Intelligence Data Updated~~~

Att: All force commanders and staff

Due to the availability of more characters personnel, the Riot 6 will be Rebuilt. As new posts open up, even more people are needed to fill the slots. As expressed by Advising Officer Marshal Kha, we shall be drawing upon the forces of Outer Cadia. Interested parties please read the following Orbat Chart carefully and notify the Advising Officer of your preferred post.

Lost Property Riot Force 6 Orbat Chart

Stars Squad

Stars 1: Takamachi Nanoha
Stars 2: Vita Yagami
Stars 3: Subaru Nakajima
Stars 4: Teana Lanstar

Lightning Squad

Lightning 1: Fate T Halaown
Lightning 2: Signum Yagami
Lightning 3: Erio Mondial
Lightning 4: Caro ru Lushe

Drake Squad

Drake 1: Takamachi G. Keroko
Drake 2: Tesla Yagami
Drake 3: Allison Ford
Drake 4: *OPEN* - Prefered to be filled by a Midchilda practitioner.

Zako Squad

Zako 1: Gard Redel
Zakos: To be appointed by Zako 1

Aerospace Defence Artillery Squad

Adder 1: Lionel McDouglas
Adders: To be appointed by Adder 1

Long Arch

While Admin Group is appointed, several other posts are now open. Additional officers are needed for:

Mechanized Group: Currently staffed by Alto and Vice.

2 additional choppers to be staffed. Bring your own equipment, or more Storm Raiders can be indented.

Jipnee drivers with Defensive Driving proficiency needed.

Tank commanders while welcome need special approval.

Medical Group: Currently staffed by Shamal. In need of more medics, and a chopper.

Special Investigations Group: Currently staffed by Zafira, with part-time contractor Yuuno Scrya. Needs more CSI-trained staff.

AOB: If a proposal is good enough, a special subforce can be created for you.

Heee~~ Lots of squads there
I wonder if I should group Maren, Koji and Yui in a squad of ther own... Trinity?

*runs*

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Kha

Not yours I mean D--

*dodges Astranagant*

D-...

That's because she died pretty early, and later is revived too late. Like Megane.

I'll fix that in that Return of the King arc I planned after StrikerS.

Good.

Yeah, taught by the best. And if she works with Subaru ever again...

...can we safely say there's gonna be another hole in Timespace.

She'll reach AAA ala Aurion if it goes on like that.

BTW, can you refresh me on Aurion's involvement in Rebuilt of StrikerS? :3

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Thank you very much! Yes, it was intended to be foreboding, but I also wanted to show a different side of Naomi; the shy, insecure, less confident deredere compared to the confident kick-ass-take-names tsundere Naomi in Joint Training. I think it turned out quite well.

You did a good job of it.

Curiously, I have recently come into possession of a LOT of tsuntsun and deredere Naomi pictures. *grins* They'll be showing up in Joint Training 3.

Can't wait!

And finally, I have this, a teaser for Disrupted Tangent

Spoiler for Teaser "Alamo":

He leaned back in the Pelican's cargo bay, his eyes hidden behind the golden visor of his helmet, speaking to his commanding officer. "Sir, Riot Force 6 is about to be overrun. A large force of hostiles is approaching. If I deploy to the area, I believe I can hold them off in time for the convoy to relieve Riot Force 6."

"If you deploy," said his CO, "We will not be able to support you. I repeat, if you deploy, we cannot support you: we will not arrive in time. You will be overrun."

"I understand, Sir."

"And after all that, you still want to go in? Echo 419, what is your assessment of the situation?"

"We can put our Pelican down, but we probably won't be able to bring it out," said Echo 419's pilot. "We know what we're getting into."

"Sir, I have a HALO chute with me. I can deploy using it from the Pelican."

The Lieutenant exhaled deeply, feeling all of his thirty five years, staring off into the distance from the shotgun seat of his Warthog Troop carrier, silent and contemplative for a moment. He took a deep breath, released it, and then, softly, reluctantly, he asked, "Please repeat your request, Master Chief."

"Sir. Request permission to insert into Riot Force 6 to relieve the defenders."

"Understood. You have permission to insert via HALO. Good luck."

"Thank you, Sir."

"You damn fool," muttered the Sergeant Major, shaking his head. "You damn fool. Listen to me, John. You come back alive, y'hear me? You stay alive till I get there, got it?"

"Understood. And... thank you, Avery."

"Good luck, Master Chief," said his Lieutenant, and then the communications were cut and he was alone. He stood, quickly strapping on his HALO parachute and rucksack, strapping his gear and weapons to his armor, and nodding to the crew chief who opened the hatch.

"When you hit the deck, plant the homing beacon! Once the beacon is in place we can airdrop guided weapon cases to your position! You're gonna need all the guns we can give you! Good luck, Master Chief!"

"The same to you," said the Master Chief, and he stepped out into the night. He was a green blur as he fell forty-five thousand feet. The only indication he gave of his presence was when he deployed his chute and his rifle device, firing beams at Gadget Drones approaching Riot Force 6. As he entered the heavy AMF density he restored his device to inert form as Otto and her Drones spotted him and fired; he cut his chute and fell like a brick, landing in front of Shamal and Zafira, a strange grenade clutched in his hand, priming it and throwing it into the ground as the beams impacted...and were deflected by the barrier put out by the grenade.

As the barrier fizzled out he reached behind his armor and drew his assault rifle, the first of his many weapons, and opened fire.

This looks like something out of a video game. But, seeing where MC was taken...

Originally Posted by Erio

So not exactly melee, but ways to ward them off. Sounds good to me!

Whew. Thanks!

Yeah, I thought Aaron wanted to make her good in melee, but that was not the case.

Hey, she may be my favorite character, but that won't stop me from exploiting her characteristics even if I don't like some of the canon-provided details. I'll just put her on the pedestal of how I wanted her to be in StrikerS. Not a frontal combatant ala Nanoha or Fate, but can hold her own in different types of situations.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

As long as it's good work, they'll come and read

*notes down*

So Aaron likes his Hayates full-sized, nothing surprising

Oh yeah

It seems we all have ideas for Teana... especially since I've been planning to give her a new ability with her Crossfires... and one she'll pass down her new "junior" student that's older than her

Undoubtedly the OC thread's fave Striker.

No place is immune to Nighty's EPICNESS

Quoted for truth!

Originally Posted by Tormenk

That really was a half-hearted pursuit to hunt down the duo given her Diabolic Emission and souped-up SLB did nothing more than magical damage. ._. Unless it's argued that magic damage can reach killing point, I'll say she put out more damage punching Nanoha around than throwing nukes at her.

Oh yeah...

Well it's either win big..

..or lose big.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Same here. I like the chibi Hayate cuz she's better for cuddling, but the full-size Hayate is sexier...

Originally Posted by Saint X

Andrei: The only other thing that i can think of is to destroy it's very existence from the multiverse- each Hayate Yamami killed in one single dimension-ripping blow...

Which makes me glad YOU did NOT participate in that particular operation!

Well it is perfect, I have plans for my first "OC death"... one dying, to be replaced by another OC- which has a relation- a deep one.

Spoiler for Some quotes of this OC:

"Even though all of you treat me as a divine entity, a notch above all, I am still human, I still get tired, I still bleed, I still cry over people dying. Why am i even saying this if I'm not human?!!"

Sounds like a Hikki indeed.

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

As they say, the more the merrier .

And we have...um, cookies! And free internet coupons!

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

Just a little heads up, I am still working on the side-fic to Aaron's GenerationS that I was 'commissioned' to make. Should be done shortly as long as laziness doesn't strike anytime soon . Here's a small teaser of what I've got so far. This particular part was fun to write .

Spoiler for A Day at the Amusement Park, teaser:

As he snaps the last photo for the rotation, Yuuno’s mind wanders a bit to the older woman in the photo. Having known her since she was nine, he’s had the opportunity to watch as she developed and matured over the years. From that little, energetic girl she had grown to be a stunning woman with an incredible track record with the TSAB, her career practically set for her.

‘Her figure had also filled out quite nicely, too. Not to mention how great she looks in that skirt…’

He quickly coughs, trying to clear that train of thought from his mind. It was well known throughout the TSAB of the three Aces from the Non-Administered world and their spectacular feats from the young age of nine with no prior knowledge of magic or formal training (with the exception of Fate). Over the past few years their stunning beauty and continuing single status also became fairly well known. Many men, from recruits to high-ranking officers, tried their hand at attempting to court one of the famed Aces only to be turned down. Some had compared the chances to dating one of them to taking them on one-on-one with no limiters and no attack restrictions. This comparison had also kept many from even trying in the first place, yet some still tried their luck now and then.

EPICNESS incoming!

I'm glad you took the job. Thanks!
(BTW, it was FieryAeon's idea to commission you...)

Originally Posted by krisslanza

I believe this is something you may or may not want to look at... My little OC project again with a newly done teaser I free-wrote

Spoiler for Arc-en-Ciel: Ashes unto Dust:

The light sighs in a clearly feminine tone, it runs a hand through psuedo-transparent silver hair to brush away a bang obscuring half its face. It casts its mis-matched eyes about the darkness of the room, a glint of red is reflected in its own self-casted light in a scar running down its right silver eye. The woman of light digs into her jacket's pocket as her right hand habitually flicks open, then closes, a lighter.

"So..." the light cracks in a pained tone, "Someone actually bothered to learn history?" a non-descript white pack is withdrawn from her jacket, "And someone bothered to learn this particular history? Couldn't you just look out the window?" she gestures vaguely about her, not really aware if the room has windows or not, a white stick is flicked out of the pack as she continues, "But I digress... I guess someone who was involved in a bulk of the fighting would be the best person to explain this. And one of the few who didn't die when that little 'accident' happened."

She sighed and withdrew the white stick from the matching pack, the stick went into her mouth as the pack disappeared back into her jacket pockets. The lighter flicked open and lit as it burned the stick, a wisp of smoke appearing. Another flick and the lighter disappeared into her sleeves. A light shaking of her head causes the bang to once more fall and cover her blue eye from view.

"I suppose we'll get introductions out of the way first. I guess back in the days... My rank would be lieutenant, and I was in charge of the 367th Ground Battalion. Don't bother going looking them up, they're all dead anyway." the woman spat bitterly and took a drag from her cancer stick, "I'm also a Enforcer, by the name of Rune Juril. I've had the... Pleasure of meeting and being acquainted with the Aces, I didn't know them well... Maybe except Testarossa, but merely since she was around so much." Rune waved her hand dismissively, "Not that it matters anymore. Well now that introductions are done... I suppose you'll want to know how the 'great Time and Space Administration Bureau' has been reduced to ashes and we're at war with ourselves as Varista rebuilds, laughing at our misfortune?"

Rune laughs bitterly and then quickly she sobers and her visible eye narrows, the red glint is noted again in the scar.

"It's a long story. Don't fall asleep."

The premise is a bit confusing at first. But it really gets interesting quickly.

Originally Posted by dkellis

Spoiler for Cut for those who don't care:

The basis of the story is that a long time ago, a splinter faction from Al Hazard went and made their own society, taking their own set of Lost Logia.

After a while, they decided to evolve themselves into pure information, but since their particular dimension (which may or may not be this one; it doesn't matter) doesn't work for their brand of information-without-media, they translocated their entire society into a dimension which could support it. This happened to be the dimension that the TSAB would start exploring as the Infinite Library.

The story is thus supposed to be about discovering this pure information society, and stopping them from taking over the Infinite Library. Along the way, I have plenty of notes to be inserted into dialogue about the relationship between magic and information, information and cryptography, and AIs and Rampancy, along with speculations on why Al Hazard fell and why this is emblematic of that.

If the Infinite Library is just a big collection of books, then I can't use that story.

The reason I'm irritated is that I did ask about this three times and got no objections, and only after I actually started working on it and building up a whole story outline and released the chapter did I get, well, this.

It was a canon contradiction, but nobody bothered to inform me until too late.

It's nobody's fault as such, but I don't know how else I could have avoided this but to spam the same question throughout the run of StrikerS every week or something, which I think the mods would not look kindly upon. Damned if I do and damned if I don't: I'm just going "so what would you have had me do?"

Hence, my irritation at the fact of Life Isn't Fair. And that irritation grows because I can't do anything about it.

I think it can still be done... somehow...
Don't give up just yet!

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

That reminds me of somthing. It'd be great if your fic could answer this question: Why does the Lanstar style use gun-shaped magic devices?
Conventional guns are made the way they are because they need to provide a passage for gas pressure to build up behind the bullet to propel it at high speed. That does not apply to magic balls that are counjured up outside the barrel. Even more so when Teana is conjuring up multiple balls like she did starting from ep7.
That's how other mages use their staff weapons, so why a gun?
If you wanted something more compact than the usual staff, you might as well delete the barrel and just have a cartridge holder with a trigger.

Now this is one idea to crack!

Some thoughts:

1. The barrel's a kind of aid to help shape particles when they are inside the barrel. Teana fires some from inside, and those (okay only 1 such spell ) are stronger than usual. I'm talking about the Variable Shot.

2. We see CM using the Metal Storm loading system. Maybe the barrel now serves to hold only cartridges, like the rear portion of a pump action shotgun?

3. It can even be tradition persisting in the face of tech advancement: Maybe the Lanstars have been famous gunslingers since the pre-AWTEP days, and that the handgun is the mark of the family, hence why their devices are shaped as such despite the somewhat redundancy?

I'm still giving it more thought. Ideas and comments to contribute, guys?

Originally Posted by dkellis

You know, I asked three times, at the beginning of StrikerS, in the middle of StrikerS, and after the end of StrikerS, and got no contradictions. I watched everything I had, and had no confirmation that the Infinite Library was physically in Main HQ.

If that isn't due diligence, then I don't know what is.

I'm done. I'm out. Lyrical Melancholy, Lyrical Rage, and Lyrical Envy, all scrapped.

Bye.

Originally Posted by LimitedEternal

If it's not too much to ask, what's so vital about this whole "pocket dimension" thing that you'd have to scrap all that work without it? I mean, is it really that critical to the story?

Originally Posted by dkellis

Spoiler for Cut for those who don't care:

The basis of the story is that a long time ago, a splinter faction from Al Hazard went and made their own society, taking their own set of Lost Logia.

After a while, they decided to evolve themselves into pure information, but since their particular dimension (which may or may not be this one; it doesn't matter) doesn't work for their brand of information-without-media, they translocated their entire society into a dimension which could support it. This happened to be the dimension that the TSAB would start exploring as the Infinite Library.

The story is thus supposed to be about discovering this pure information society, and stopping them from taking over the Infinite Library. Along the way, I have plenty of notes to be inserted into dialogue about the relationship between magic and information, information and cryptography, and AIs and Rampancy, along with speculations on why Al Hazard fell and why this is emblematic of that.

If the Infinite Library is just a big collection of books, then I can't use that story.

The reason I'm irritated is that I did ask about this three times and got no objections, and only after I actually started working on it and building up a whole story outline and released the chapter did I get, well, this.

It was a canon contradiction, but nobody bothered to inform me until too late.

It's nobody's fault as such, but I don't know how else I could have avoided this but to spam the same question throughout the run of StrikerS every week or something, which I think the mods would not look kindly upon. Damned if I do and damned if I don't: I'm just going "so what would you have had me do?"

Hence, my irritation at the fact of Life Isn't Fair. And that irritation grows because I can't do anything about it.

Originally Posted by dkellis

Because that doesn't work for my purposes.

It doesn't matter how big the Infinite Library is, it just matters where it is, technically speaking. As long as we have the fact that "the Infinite Library is inside Main HQ", no matter how big it is on the inside compared to the outside, there is no reason or way for that splinter faction to have been inside it from Al Hazardian days.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Understood

Although it's be a shame if you simply threw away Lyrical Melancholy like that, especially the scenes you've written down and posted here, which still works even without the meat of the story regarding the Infinite Library. Will just have to brainstorm some more

My sentiments as above, if we really are gonna lose our most favorite Librarians since the Orang Utan and Yuuno.

Well for me, it's that pocket dimensions don't always have to stay alone. They can be linked via wormholes to other pockets. This was a premise that I'm working with to link the Infinite Library to the Library Island. That's why we see Chao as one of the most prominent non-combat member of the Nanohaverse's Celestial Being, instead of her lookalike from 2342.

If I may suggest:

~~~~~~

The accidental discovery of the first section of what would become called the Infinite Libray began the wave of reconstruction after the tumultous post-Belka Imperiallum years as scientists and magiengineers alike plumbed its vast depths for innovation and knowledge.

As time passed, and GDI gave way to TSAB, a scholastic settlement grew slowly around the portal into this pocket dimension. And as more time passed, that outpost grew and was upgraded and designated as the Main HQ in MC 0000.

That single coiled tube was huge, as almost the size of a planet, but recently, wormholes have been discovered linking that inverted planetoid to other like structures. It was then theorized that the complete structure of the Infinite Library was that of a bunch of grapes, of several pockets linked together via shield-stabilized portions of the Warp transcending voidspace. As such, the 37th and their link became tasked to seek out and map all of the new grapes.

However, as once-sealed wormholes were opened and more knowledge gained, a old sentinel began to stir. Can the 37th contain the worms from the can they've just opened?

~~~~~~

How's that? I was thinking the Library Island was one such grape, and even it was infested with its share of dungeon creeps. The Elders could've sealed themselves in another part of the Library, or even have existed on a spectrum beyond the sense of humans, and have been watching the TSAB's every move.

There's still a literary way forward, I'm sure of it! Don't give up! Remember what we always say:

"Believe in us, who believe in you!"

I hope this has helped somewhat.

Originally Posted by Keroko

*falls down* O-kay, just give the info when you find it again, then.

Traps are allowed though.

In case you didn't get what I earlier meant, the Drake Squad has been confirmed, all we've got left is Drake 4 to be filled. The classified ad would look something like:

"Riot 6 is looking for a Midchilda practitioner specializing in melee. Females (natural or trap) are preferred."

I'm serious about that last part. Both points of it.

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Kha

In case you didn't get what I earlier meant, the Drake Squad has been confirmed, all we've got left is Drake 4 to be filled. The classified ad would look something like:

"Riot 6 is looking for a Midchilda practitioner specializing in melee. Females (natural or trap) are preferred."

I'm serious about that last part. Both points of it.

Serena fits the bill PERFECTLY! (she's natural)

She's Mid-childan in style. Uses an arm-blade as a device ala-Exia. And has an Ice Affinity. Perfect!

I'm petitioning her for the spot! Details away!

She's a bit of an elitist, a COLD tsundere instead of a loud, shouting one. She looks like Leona Garstein from SRW OG (also 18 years old). She's voiced by Yui Sakakibara. She also has some sort of unpleasant history with the Linebackers... She's a HORRIBLE cook (worse than Shamal). And finally, she also has a crush on any male in RF6 you should see fit.

Whew. Profile in a day or two. Need any more details?

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Kha

Now this is one idea to crack!

Some thoughts:

1. The barrel's a kind of aid to help shape particles when they are inside the barrel. Teana fires some from inside, and those (okay only 1 such spell ) are stronger than usual. I'm talking about the Variable Shot.

Probably true. You'll notice that many powerful magic spells - for example, Divine Buster deploy containment rings to get some of the effect. A hardwired barrel will presumably be more efficient.

3. It can even be tradition persisting in the face of tech advancement: Maybe the Lanstars have been famous gunslingers since the pre-AWTEP days, and that the handgun is the mark of the family, hence why their devices are shaped as such despite the somewhat redundancy?

I'm still giving it more thought. Ideas and comments to contribute, guys?

Actually, potential benefits to magic aside, when it comes to a human doing medium and long range shooting, the gun is far more ergonomic than a magestaff. The ball on the magestaff actually blocks your view of a target and makes the use of sights nearly impossible, forcing the use of an "electronic sight". It is probably also considerable less comfortable to rest it on your shoulder (compared to a optimized rifle stock). All that reduces long range accuracy. Further, the gun provides natural places for cartridges, which have to be awkwardly crammed in with a staff.

This is why Pilot-who-shot-his-sister (oh what's his name again) uses something that's similar to a sniper rifle. He exploits both ergonomics and barrel containment. Which is probably why his shots are some of the highest velocities in the series.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Tk3997

Spoiler for Long rant is long:

Evidence to back this up? Oh right pretty much none aside from the fact she appears happy, but clearly that's impossible she must be hiding a tenuously balanced psyche ready to shatter at any moment. First off you assume she has issues... with no real proof, and then you further assume she makes no effort to work through them... with no real proof. Yeeeup this is some rock steady reasoning here.

Horseshit the fact she was offered a promotion shows her career isn’t anything like dead acutally a promotion would likely give her MORE time with Vivio, but less time in the field doing what she likes. Which acutally makes it a slightly selfish decision, but one she took because she wanted too. Besides I think we can agree Nanoha is probably not all that interested in climbing the ranks to a position of authority she wants to keep flying around saving the day, you can’t do that behind a desk and if she ever decides she dose feel like flying a desk for some unfathomable reason with her record and power level the Air Force would shower promotions upon her in an instant I guarantee.

As for the last bit first off the series ended just after the big fight with only a small happy ending epilogue set sometime later that gives us little to judge this on, and she'd showed basiclly zero effects from the previous seasons so a rational person would assume she'd dealt with it and kept moving on. Not that she's somehow bottling it up and hiding even vague signs of strain so she can somehow explode like a drama bomb after 20 years.

This isn't how psychologically works you aren't fine for 20 years and when one day you wake and go, "okay now I'm gonna be horribly depressed!" It's sorta like " Epiphany Therapy" just like dealing with one single event isn't going to fix huge pshyological issues, said issues also aren't going to suddenly appear out of thin air after decades of good mental health... Also everyone talks about "repression" or burying stuff being bad, but it really isn't' inherently so acutally it's a natural and effective coping mechanism for many things, indeed a key sign of "getting over" something is basiclly not thinking about it anymore, so if you think it about the goal of most therapy for this kind of thing is to repress the problem, permanently. Indeed in certain cases dragging up the issue makes it worse and is counter productive.

The goal of a psychology is allow people to function as contributing members of society, if the person is functioning and shows no major issues that are impending their function then they are healthy. As long as they maintain that the method they use to cope and function dosen't really matter. Note I don't think Nanoha has this "issue" to start with, but I just want to make clear that pushing aside or burying unpleasant things is not inherently wrong.

Further more psychology is ultimately a frustratingly vague area and generalizations are almost impossible somethings that will render one person an emotional wreck will only mildly affect others for instance, it's NOT that the other person has become some kind of ticking timebomb that will explode into a firestorm of issues later it simply dosen't effect them the same way. this is why almost anything in this displine is prefaced or followed by "normally, on average, usually, often, sometimes, in many cases" etc.

Basically it's impossible to say "because X happened to Y he'll react in Z way." You'd need to a through workup of that person to even guess the effect, thoguh observing them over a long period could aid this as well. We can't get the former for Nanoha though we can draw on a fair amount of observation and this data shows a definite lack of the kinds of warning signs and behaviors associated with mental problems. Going off this we ought to conclude not that she must have some hidden stealth issue, but that she's likely rather healthy mentally which most people ultimately are.

Being bed ridden and told you may never be able to do what you love again can do that, but acutally this is more an example of her resilience. As rather then wallow around she basiclly went “fuck that!” and got off her ass and pushed herself back into shape. Again this merely proves she’s not some emotionally fragile ticking time bomb, but rather a solidly build and well balanced individual.

A common saying in various arguments is “absence of evidence is not itself evidence” and I feel that applies here. She shows no outward signs of serious (unreasonable) stress or underlying emotional and psychological issues and she has a strong social support network which is a key factor in good mental health. Acutally looking at her from a clinical perspective she appears very healthy mentally and has little reason not to stay that way. Seriously why is nowadays that when someone appears happy and cheerful people assume “oh he’s faking it” or “he must have hidden issues” why dose no one ever go “Oh he’s a happy well adjusted individual satisfied with his life” are we so god damn jaded and bitter that we somehow can’t accept that someone can acutally be genuinely happy with their life nowadays?

Even Freud Said “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.” and sometimes someone that looks happy is happy.

Jesus, long rants.

Alright, at this point, what's happening is that I'm brainstorming. See, I'm not too happy with the direction of angsty-Nanoha myself, but Kagerou uses me to bounce ideas off from, which is what I do and am doing.

As Keroko has said, according to the epilogue Nanoha gave up the promotion to spend more time with Vivio. That pretty much indicates that the promotion would have tied her up more, leaving her with less time for Vivio.

As for the dead career: From what I know of militaries and the workplace, once you turn down a promotion, it'll be a very long time before another promotion comes along.

*sighs* I really fucking hate baring myself online. Alright, TK, listen up. Yes, the repression of emotions is a natural coping mechanism. The problem is that the experiences are supposed to be temporarily repressed, not kept under a carpet or stuffed into a pressure cooker for years on. It doesn't even have to be big things. Even little resentments (little in the grand scheme of things, you try telling a kid that it's a small matter every time his stuff gets stolen, or maliciously broken by teachers - I am not fucking making this up), repressed and left to stew, can poison the person. Even if they outwardly appear happy, and are cheerful, and are the life of the party, inside they can be damned close to a nervous breakdown. Which is what happened to me: I had a shitload of unresolved issues dating back twenty fucking years. I'd forgotten all of them. I thought I was a well-adjusted individual. I had friends, I was outwardly happy, but my temper was on a hair-trigger. The smallest things would set me off. I was paranoid, believing the world and my family were out to get me, and the end result was that I fucked up my exams, and had a nervous breakdown.

Oh, wait. That's fucking impossible. Repression is a good thing. So I guess my breakdown must have been because I don't fit your fucking worldview. [/sarcastic] The only way you can move on is to deal with the repressed issues, drop them on the Cross, and be set free. That's how it was for me.

Incidentally, following the criteria you used to judge Nanoha, I was outwardly mentally healthy. Which is ironic, considering that I attempted to kill my brother several times. And no, no one picked that up until I went to counselling.

Define traumatic? Frankly what she encountered is barely even vaguely classifiable as traumatic she was never really seriously injured until she was older, my brother got hurt worse falling off a loft bed (basiclly shattered his elbow) then she ever was in the first two seasons, metaphysical stuff aside. Plus everything worked out in an almost fairy tale like way everyone came out of it okay, expect for the evil big bads who got what was coming to them, and she became friends with pretty much everyone involved and found her calling which she enjoyed greatly.

Also again we have the fact that she chose this path really after A’s she could have pretty much walked away with basiclly zero consequences (at least in the anime, probably), but she didn’t acutally she chose to get more and more involved and eventually enlist. Never underestimate the importance of someone being allowed choice in something it makes a HUGE difference in how they think about something.

Why is that we have to make one of the tiny number of magical girls that acutally wanted to be one and enjoyed her powers turn around and start whining about it after the fact? Again is SO hard for people to accept that someone can do something and acutally enjoy it and not regret it?

Actually, my simpler take on this whole situation, now that I think about it more, is that Nanoha is suffering burnout. I have very close proximity to Church life, and over the years I have seen more pastors and church workers that I care to count suffer burnout and shut down.

As for no traumatic situations, consider something... magic damage still hurts, and then consider that this is a nine-year-old girl. Who sees her best friend dissolve into nothingness, absorbed by this really scary and freaky woman, who's out to kill her. Who has to face a huge, freaky and terrifyingly large monster. And that monster is trying to kill her.

These things tend to affect people. Hell, I'm actually worried that she can just brush it off like... Master Chief. Who, as I recall, you said was pretty damaged emotionally. (Master Chief has been through some pretty traumatic experiences. I'm still surprised he doesn't have PTSD.)

Incidentally, I never woke up one day and decided, "I am going to be depressed, and in a year from now I will have a nervous breakdown." It was a gradual process that pretty much caught me and my family by surprise.

Never indicated even vaguely, ever IMO now your just basiclly making shit up to try and form some tenuous argument for a clearly rather nonsensical idea. Acutally she was a offered a fucking promotion despite a rather lack luster showing in her latest assignment that hardly screams “screwed over” we also hear constantly how famous she is and she has fans and people trying to imitate her. She’s pretty much a rockstar/golden child in her branch

.
Now, I've moved into the realm of something called brainstorming. Your basic argument is "Nanoha is immune to stress/angst", thus I am attempting to point out that no, it may not be so. This is one possibility. Furthermore, everything you mentioned has a flip side: there will be people jealous of her, who would like to fuck her over career-wise. Such things have happened before.

When was birth mentioned in this scenario exactly? Further more such things are temporary and can be treated with medication and it’s very rarely even CLOSE to this level, if it happens at all which it often doesn’t. It’s usually just a slight feeling of the blues not wandering the streets in a depressed funk!

Birth was not mentioned in this senario exactly, my train of thought was, "Depression - postpartum is another source - okay write down." And wow, I'm quite surprised you're knowledgable on postpartum depression - have you given birth? Because mothers in postpartum depression have been known to kill their babies, either via neglect or active intervention. It has happened before. It isn't as high as it could be due to mostly the close supervision of mothers that they get.

I still regret following my mom on those "head into the village to give medical instruction to the village people" trips. I learned far more about the inner workings of women than I ever want to. (Including my mom's instructions to the village women to keep a close eye on new mothers.)

(If you're wondering how the hell this happened, TK, my parents were essentially missionaries on the island of Borneo. My mom was a nurse with a focus towards pediatrics, midwifery, and general women's healthcare. Dad was a pastor. And ran a training center for church workers. I am so fucking glad to be out of the goddamn jungle, despite having lived there for 16 years.)

This has to be the crowning achievement of idiocy presented here really it is just moronic and I’m almost at a loss at how to reply to it, indeed it seems unneeded it’s so ludicrous. . Nonetheless Nanoha is surrounded by a veritable swarm of people that care deeply about her and a number of them are entirely capable of telling her bluntly if she’s acting weird (not even getting into OCs!). Really this nonsense barely even deserves a rebuttal it’s so utterly ridiculous that even a blind man could see its falsehood, if he could read it mind

Actually, to be honest, I wasn't sure if you could see the falsehood, so I just put it in to as a control, to check that the TK sense was working.

That said, not counting the OCs, I'm not too sure there's people to contact Nanoha. There aren't many indications that she's close to Carim or the other RF6 people, and her two close friends, Fate and Hayate, are off far and away. The general impressions I got from the epilogue are Nanoha alone with Vivio. Remember how hard it was for the three of them to meet up regularly 4 years ago. It's debatable how much influence Yuuno, Arf, Amy and Lindy have on Nanoha.

As for Franz, he does have a breakdown. I believe I mentioned it a lot earlier that there was no way he could keep repressing his guilt and anger and self-hatred without it spilling out and blowing up in his face. The above statement was just a piece of misinformation.

Probably… too bad you have no real evidence she acutally doing that and her personality points rather decisively against such behavior. You also need to factor in her job isn’t to go around brutally killing people for a living and involves very little moral ambiguity. A guy conducting covert assassinations and search and destroys and such is going to be dealing with a hell of allot more then someone flying in the Aggressor squadrons at Red Flag, and that is basiclly her job is. Honestly she probably sees a fairly limited amount of serious combat and indeed it’s entirely possible that what we see in the series is really the extent of her large scale battle experience aside from the occasional small scale operation that’s probably little more then a bit of extra live fire training.

TK agreed with my point. I can die a happy man. [/jk] I will admit the veracity of the rest of the above paragraph. Though I'm slightly amused at TK likening her to a Red Flag agressor after going to great pains about 100 pages ago to establish the Air Force as SWAT

I rather doubt most of those men went around wallowing in self pity and shrieking their duties and friends in the wake of those incidents. You can also probably come up with just as many examples of guys that, while that sure as hell didn’t have fun, sucked it up and moved on with minimal disruption. Then we have the fact that the intro shows pretty much everyone she cares about alive and well so what the hell is she bitching about? I don’t mind a little bit of it but just wandering around like a whiney 5 year old going “Nobody loovvveeessss me, everything sucks waaaaaaa!” is ridiculous and stupidly OOC IMO.

*sighs* As I understand things, after talking to Kagerou, who's playing his cards close to his chest, Nanoha fucks up somehow, something involving her. There's guilt and crap, and then there's all this 28 years worth of life and issues which haven't been dealt with and in a moment of weakness she slips into depression and begins a downward spiral.

THEN SHE FUCKING GETS OVER IT AND GROWS AND FINDS HER FIRE THAT WAS DRIVING HER AND THE FLAMES IGNITE HOTTER AND SHE GROWS FROM THIS AWFUL EXPERIENCE WHICH I DON'T EVEN LIKE MYSELF BUT ADMIT THAT IT'S A NEW DIRECTION AS FAR AS OC IS CONCERNED AND THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO IN OC IS NEW DIRECTIONS AND THEREFORE WE MUST TRY AND DO NEW THINGS EVEN IF WE DON'T LIKE THEM OR RISK BECOMING STAGNATED LIKE DARKSCRIBES.

*sighs* Look. Judge it by the finished work. I mean, hell. The first few episodes of MSLN were nothing special, really... it was only when Fate showed up and A's happened that the awesome showed up.

Also, while I was going through my depression, I was basically going "nobody loves me" because I was consciously and subconsciously rejecting my family's love. I can see the same thing happening with Nanoha.

So, yeah. About my only expertise on this matter is having gone through depression and a couple of suicide plans (planning, did not proceed to the attempt stage because i was so fail, i couldn't even attempt a suicide properly).

I guess it's best to agree to disagree on this issue. Like how Skyfall shot me down in the Fanfic thread, I will use the gist of that argument: TK, you have no right to dictate how Nanoha is protrayed in a fanfic, the same way I had no right to demand that the Freelancers give equal attention to the new people in our group. (Even if I regret Osaka joining the FA... nevermind.)

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Probably true. You'll notice that many powerful magic spells - for example, Divine Buster deploy containment rings to get some of the effect. A hardwired barrel will presumably be more efficient.

Actually, potential benefits to magic aside, when it comes to a human doing medium and long range shooting, the gun is far more ergonomic than a magestaff. The ball on the magestaff actually blocks your view of a target and makes the use of sights nearly impossible, forcing the use of an "electronic sight". It is probably also considerable less comfortable to rest it on your shoulder (compared to a optimized rifle stock). All that reduces long range accuracy. Further, the gun provides natural places for cartridges, which have to be awkwardly crammed in with a staff.

This is why Pilot-who-shot-his-sister (oh what's his name again) uses something that's similar to a sniper rifle. He exploits both ergonomics and barrel containment. Which is probably why his shots are some of the highest velocities in the series.

Pilot who shot his sister: Vice Gransenic, Master Sergeant.

The above reasons are pretty much why the OFM's assault platoon's devices are either rifle devices (Harvest, Ivanovich's device; Master Chief's unnamed device) or have rifle forms (Cortana).

Well, except for one guy who's the equivalent of the bazooka man. His staff is set so that he rests it on his shoulder like a bazooka.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

That said, not counting the OCs, I'm not too sure there's people to contact Nanoha. There aren't many indications that she's close to Carim or the other RF6 people, and her two close friends, Fate and Hayate, are off far and away. The general impressions I got from the epilogue are Nanoha alone with Vivio. Remember how hard it was for the three of them to meet up regularly 4 years ago. It's debatable how much influence Yuuno, Arf, Amy and Lindy have on Nanoha.

Amy and Arf are childhood friends (of which Arf just so happens to be Fate's familiar, and Lindy Fate's mother therefore the two of them should be very close to Nanoha), Lindy is somewhat of a guardian who guided her through the TSAB routines and Yuuno... do I even have to comment on this? Yuuno is as close as Fate where influence is concerned.

Point in case, all four of them have heavy influence on Nanoha.

And where did you get the 'it was hard for the three of them to meet up regularely four years ago'? They were in highschool together. Classmates, even. The manga was refering to the entire crew, as in Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, Arf, Amy, Lindy, Chrono, Yuuno, Vita, Signum, Zafira, and Shamal. That is a somewhat harder meeting to organize. Heck, Nanoha even greets Yuuno with the notion that the hadn't seen eachother for 3 days, which suggests they meet up even more normally.

[stormturmoil]

Just to add another point onh the subject, for what it's worth:

Nanoha's dad was almost killed when she was very young, and that can seriously affect a young child's outlook even much later in life, since it's common assumption by young children that their fathers are invulnerable and will always be there. Finding out that isn't the case can be very scarring for a child.

as for whether or not people were there to help her: it doesn't really matter where anyone is, only whether Nanoha lets them in. It's possible to spend all day every day in the same room with other people and yet never be in the same place.

[Kikaifan]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Probably true. You'll notice that many powerful magic spells - for example, Divine Buster deploy containment rings to get some of the effect. A hardwired barrel will presumably be more efficient.

10's weapon definitely seemed to benefit. I personally suspect the cohering rings are a shortcut and inefficient even from a 'pure magic' (no specialized hardware) standpoint since the Book dropped them from its Starlight Breaker mod and that looked like it was a lot better-focused than Nanoha's version.

This is why Pilot-who-shot-his-sister (oh what's his name again) uses something that's similar to a sniper rifle. He exploits both ergonomics and barrel containment. Which is probably why his shots are some of the highest velocities in the series.

A lot of the action in Nanoha is practically slow-motion anyway, especially by anime standards, and it makes fast-paced scenes like Subaru 'zerking feel really different. It's like the polar opposite of Jubei-chan.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Jesus, long rants.

Well, when I glimpsed "angsting Nanoha" during a periscope sweep, I had to keep myself from spontaneously spitting. Permit me in joining to post my view.

As Keroko has said, according to the epilogue Nanoha gave up the promotion to spend more time with Vivio. That pretty much indicates that the promotion would have tied her up more, leaving her with less time for Vivio.

As for the dead career: From what I know of militaries and the workplace, once you turn down a promotion, it'll be a very long time before another promotion comes along.

1) Is that with average officers, who are happy a promotion comes to them at all?
2) Nanoha is particularly non-career seeking - no one that seriously cares about fast promotion goes for instructing in combat arms when there is real combat and real incidents to make your star in. Nanoha no doubt had stellar OERs, but what causes her promotion opportunity? Joining RF6 and fighting real enemies.
3) Something that is your own choice is not exactly a prime candidate for being a depressive source.

*sighs* I really fucking hate baring myself online. Alright, TK, listen up. Yes, the repression of emotions is a natural coping mechanism. The problem is that the experiences are supposed to be temporarily repressed, not kept under a carpet or stuffed into a pressure cooker for years on. It doesn't even have to be big things. Even little resentments (little in the grand scheme of things, you try telling a kid that it's a small matter every time his stuff gets stolen, or maliciously broken by teachers - I am not fucking making this up), repressed and left to stew, can poison the person. Even if they outwardly appear happy, and are cheerful, and are the life of the party, inside they can be damned close to a nervous breakdown. Which is what happened to me: I had a shitload of unresolved issues dating back twenty fucking years. I'd forgotten all of them. I thought I was a well-adjusted individual. I had friends, I was outwardly happy, but my temper was on a hair-trigger. The smallest things would set me off. I was paranoid, believing the world and my family were out to get me, and the end result was that I fucked up my exams, and had a nervous breakdown.

The way you describe it, it seems that you actually agree with Tk3997. Your symptoms didn't come out of the blue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you probably had been getting increasingly bad tempered for some time before your final explosion that caused you to be aware what is really happening. It is clear that your defense mechanisms have been failing you for some time.

Incidentally, following the criteria you used to judge Nanoha, I was outwardly mentally healthy. Which is ironic, considering that I attempted to kill my brother several times. And no, no one picked that up until I went to counselling.

If Nanoha attempted to kill Fate several times, then you might have a point, but there is no evidence of this.

Actually, my simpler take on this whole situation, now that I think about it more, is that Nanoha is suffering burnout. I have very close proximity to Church life, and over the years I have seen more pastors and church workers that I care to count suffer burnout and shut down.

OK, and what's burning her out? She has a cute daughter, work she loves, friends - even if her promotion prospects are frozen she's darn near in heaven.

As for no traumatic situations, consider something... magic damage still hurts, and then consider that this is a nine-year-old girl. Who sees her best friend dissolve into nothingness, absorbed by this really scary and freaky woman, who's out to kill her. Who has to face a huge, freaky and terrifyingly large monster. And that monster is trying to kill her.

It is potentially traumatic, but Nanoha is clearly perfectly lucid. Only a crazy person can watch that anime and conclude that Nanoha suffered permanent psychological damage from the experience. No flashbacks, no nothing.

The closest thing to a traumatic experience Nanoha ever had (as far as visible effect) is when Vivio got kidnapped. Even that seemed to have no apparent long-term effect. Not a single flashback nightmare.

Incidentally, I never woke up one day and decided, "I am going to be depressed, and in a year from now I will have a nervous breakdown." It was a gradual process that pretty much caught me and my family by surprise.

Precisely, there are long precursors, of which Nanoha has none apparent.

TK agreed with my point. I can die a happy man. [/jk] I will admit the veracity of the rest of the above paragraph. Though I'm slightly amused at TK likening her to a Red Flag agressor after going to great pains about 100 pages ago to establish the Air Force as SWAT

I'm not sure what TK proposed 100 pages ago, but Nanoha's job is indeed an Aggressor. That AF as a whole is a SWAT unit is something else.

*sighs* As I understand things, after talking to Kagerou, who's playing his cards close to his chest, Nanoha fucks up somehow, something involving her. There's guilt and crap, and then there's all this 28 years worth of life and issues which haven't been dealt with and in a moment of weakness she slips into depression and begins a downward spiral.

Here's my recommendation for what its worth. Forget the 28 year buildup. Sure, almost anything is possible psychologically but the indicators are weak enough that the setup lacks plausibility - it is justified right now more by "Anything can happen, benefit of the doubt" than a believable scenario.

Use the incident itself as the source. If buildup must be involved, I suppose the only obviously gray cloud on Nanoha's horizon as of StrikerS is her poor overworked linker core. Perhaps its declining output caused the failure? Maybe Nanoha is under increasing fear of being unable to fly (perhaps her one fear that we know of?)

I guess it's best to agree to disagree on this issue. Like how Skyfall shot me down in the Fanfic thread, I will use the gist of that argument: TK, you have no right to dictate how Nanoha is protrayed in a fanfic, the same way I had no right to demand that the Freelancers give equal attention to the new people in our group. (Even if I regret Osaka joining the FA... nevermind.)

TK is not dictating, and neither am I. Nevertheless, I'm sure TK joins me in being mildly distressed at this setup.

Psychology is not physics - it is so uncertain that it is often called a "soft science". Thus it is always possible to find a fringe or individualistic scenario to support one's point. That's not the same as a scenario being plausible.

Some characters, like Fate and Hayate, are angst characters. Nanoha is frankly not one of them - which makes it particularly hard to write even a demi-plausible angst sequence. There is also a matter of necessity.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by Keroko

but if I recall it was actually stated that she refused her promotion in order to take care of Vivio, which would mean that it would have given her more work.

No, it was stated in the epilogue that she refused promotion, the reason wasn't mentioned however. She probably just loves her current job too much to head higher. Though, you only get to refuse it so often before they stop offering it anymore.

Originally Posted by kha

1. The barrel's a kind of aid to help shape particles when they are inside the barrel. Teana fires some from inside, and those (okay only 1 such spell ) are stronger than usual. I'm talking about the Variable Shot.

That would work for single shots, but doesn't seem to be efficient for casting multiple simultaneous shots.

Maybe the Lanstars have been famous gunslingers since the pre-AWTEP days, and that the handgun is the mark of the family, hence why their devices are shaped as such despite the somewhat redundancy?

That's something, but that implies the design was once important for a reason. Be great to find out what. Try to avoid "weapons used to look like this" as an explaination if possible. That would be rather plain, don't you agree?
Another point, which I think could be important, is that all the Lanstar guns we've seen, Tiida's pistol, Tea's old anchorgun and CM, all have a physical trigger. They seemed designed to need it, unlike any other magic devices.

Originally Posted by arkangelsk

The ball on the magestaff actually blocks your view of a target and makes the use of sights nearly impossible, forcing the use of an "electronic sight". It is probably also considerable less comfortable to rest it on your shoulder (compared to a optimized rifle stock). All that reduces long range accuracy. Further, the gun provides natural places for cartridges, which have to be awkwardly crammed in with a staff.

You seem to be assuming that a magic staff is aimed and fired like a gun. This is certainly not the case. Mages can conjure up attack balls in the air around them then send them off with a wave of their hand. Pointing your staff at the target seems to be optional.
You have some good points though.