AnimeSuki Forums

NoemiChan · 2013-01-14, 03:11

The question is

Who taught him Democracy? and one kind of Democracy is it?

Eragon · 2013-01-14, 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuxorMG

I went back to check the MAL page for Shinsekai, and I was surprised to find the rating so low.

Then I noticed there were mostly 5/5s before episode 8, yet the votes were pretty divided on 8's poll, and a huge drop in votership afterwards. And of course, there's even a poll asking about people dropping due to episode 8 too.

If only they overlooked the brief homosexual overtones... the recent few episodes have been revelation after revelation and pretty enjoyable.

Narrow minded people are narrow minded. What can you do? I mean seriously, if anyone has even a shred of common sense they would recognize from the first 7 episodes that this show isn't about romance or pairings.

NoemiChan · 2013-01-14, 03:16

I guess the Yuri shippers are disappointed.. *hides

Eragon · 2013-01-14, 03:18

You know this is getting tiring........

Gohan78 · 2013-01-14, 05:26

We are quick to put the Queerats in the villain role because Squealer is a manipulative little bastard and he is using our protagonists, but are they really in the wrong?

In my opinion they have every right to rebel against the humans. They are basically slaves, forced to do humiliating jobs and stripped of every human right. They are an intelligent species and should be granted freedom.

What they did to the Queen is akin to overthrowing an insane absolute monarch and establish a democracy. Sure, keeping her restrained to be used as a breeding factory is despicable but it can't be helped if she's their only means of reproduction.

If there will be a revolution, I am rooting for the Queerats.

NoemiChan · 2013-01-14, 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gohan78

If there will be a revolution, I am rooting for the Queerats.

Just basing it all in the anime, I really know how they have a chance in winning against a village of Cantu users. Even if they try turning one or two against their own kind (humans)... I think, it'll never last long.. since more will come to clean up the mess...

Cosmic Eagle · 2013-01-14, 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gohan78

We are quick to put the Queerats in the villain role because Squealer is a manipulative little bastard and he is using our protagonists, but are they really in the wrong?

In my opinion they have every right to rebel against the humans. They are basically slaves, forced to do humiliating jobs and stripped of every human right. They are an intelligent species and should be granted freedom.

What they did to the Queen is akin to overthrowing an insane absolute monarch and establish a democracy. Sure, keeping her restrained to be used as a breeding factory is despicable but it can't be helped if she's their only means of reproduction.

If there will be a revolution, I am rooting for the Queerats.

Exactly...Like I said...in this way...and more, this has been a long, long time coming

-Sho- · 2013-01-14, 06:01

Squealer might be the vilain here but the humans society aren't better too.
I want them to win the rebellion & to wake up people from their dream life.

kuromitsu · 2013-01-14, 07:33

BUT OMG UR WRONG SATORU WOULD TOTALLY BEAT SAKI IN A BATTLE

Huge blasts of power, etc. is something they're all capable of, apparently on a relatively similar level, with only personal factors marking a difference (such as speed of reaction, level of visualization, etc). As Tomiko said, each person is essentially a potential WMD. What makes one more powerful than another is not as much the extent of their power but the level of control they have over it. Look at what they're learning in school: things that require fine and delicate control. (In ep 8 Saki keeps failing to repair a bottle, while Satoru is commended by Kaburagi Shisei on his mirror which he says is a difficult task.) And the level of control they're capable of influences how well they're able to use their power. (For example, at one point a character changes the direction of the wind, and Satoru is like "aw hell, I'll never be able to do something like this...")

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gohan78

We are quick to put the Queerats in the villain role because Squealer is a manipulative little bastard and he is using our protagonists, but are they really in the wrong?

If you ask me, it's not necessarily his goal that is wrong but the methods he uses...

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sho-

I want them to win the rebellion & to wake up people from their dream life.

And what would happen then?

I think mass destruction of both parties is not really worth it...

Eragon · 2013-01-14, 07:54

If a total war breaks out between these two factions, especially if the Queercats get a hold of a human and get him/her under control then its pretty much gonna end with both races annihilating each other.

mangamuscle · 2013-01-14, 09:06

As for querats being human, I think they are heavily modified blind moles (which are rats). I remember from an episode of Joshiraku how Kukuru talks about blind moles being matriarchal by nature.

Triple_R · 2013-01-14, 10:09

I also don't really see the Queerats as villains, per se. Squealer certainly acts the role, but I can see where he has good, practical reasons for doing and saying what he does. And the other Queerats are acting in ways that make sense for their own survival.

That being said, Saki and Satoru are clearly the protagonists of this work, and they're easy characters to get behind and root for. And so I will.

MeoTwister5 · 2013-01-14, 10:59

One thing that struck me here was how Saki was starting to question the concept of absolute morality. She was already going down the path of questioning whether humanity's habit of imposing their own ethics onto everyone and everything led to many of the problems society is facing now, not any less of that the potential threat the Queerats are likely to pose to the now limited and wavering human society.

It's already looking like a clash of two human-like societies: The powerful but conservative and fewer Old Humanity (Cantus users) versus the low intellect but progressive and numerous New Humanity (Queerrats).

Eragon · 2013-01-14, 13:29

I too think there is no villain or hero in this show. Its not that shallow that you can just point a finger at someone and say they are the villain. Everyone has perfectly good or reasonable reasons to do the things that they do.

mangamuscle · 2013-01-14, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

It's already looking like a clash of two human-like societies: The powerful but conservative and fewer Old Humanity (Cantus users) versus the low intellect but progressive and numerous New Humanity (Queerrats).

Do you realize you are imposing your human worldview onto everything when you reduce this to an "old humans vs new humans" conflict? This isn't about homo sapiens versus homo sapiens psionicus (that conflict is already settled), it isn't even about old ape vs. new ape, this is a conflict between very different mammal species, Homo sapiens psionicus vs. Talpa caeca sapiens.

Eragon · 2013-01-14, 14:08

^ Where the hell did you get those names from?

taichi-kun · 2013-01-14, 15:25

The PK villages should control more the rats cities...

Also I think maria-mamoru will join the rats in the future.. because they can't survive alone..

Triple_R · 2013-01-14, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

One thing that struck me here was how Saki was starting to question the concept of absolute morality. She was already going down the path of questioning whether humanity's habit of imposing their own ethics onto everyone and everything led to many of the problems society is facing now, not any less of that the potential threat the Queerats are likely to pose to the now limited and wavering human society.

It's already looking like a clash of two human-like societies: The powerful but conservative and fewer Old Humanity (Cantus users) versus the low intellect but progressive and numerous New Humanity (Queerrats).

I find this to be a very odd way of viewing things.

If anything, the human society of Shin Sekai Yori is pragmatic to a fault. It makes moral compromises to the point that it will kill its own young over the slightest of concerns or "red flags". If someone was to make an argument in favor of moral absolutes, "It's wrong to kill children" wouldn't be a bad place to start. I can only think of a small handful of moral values that are more commonly held than that one is. The human society of Shin Sekai Yori is hardly one based on the importance of morality. If anything, it's about putting the safety and security and sustainability of "the whole" first, above any and all other concerns, including moral ones.

What I took from what Saki said is that Tomiko is getting to her, and that Saki is starting to gradually trade in youthful idealism (with the fervent moral convictions that often accompanies it) for the strict pragmatism represented by her world. Yes, Saki is starting to question her personal moral values... and I'm not sure that's a good thing. I can see both sides of the argument here.

The human society in Shin Sekai Yori is a very stratified and heavily regulated one, but we shouldn't mistake that for one that's very concerned with morality for its own sake. It's much more like Orwell's 1984, where strict control is an end unto itself.

kuromitsu · 2013-01-14, 16:35

Fun fact: bakenezumi have a canon scientific name (well, a suggestion, anyway).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What I took from what Saki said is that Tomiko is getting to her, and that Saki is starting to gradually trade in youthful idealism (with the fervent moral convictions that often accompanies it) for the strict pragmatism represented by her world. Yes, Saki is starting to question her personal moral values... and I'm not sure that's a good thing. I can see both sides of the argument here.

I think it's not losing her "youthful idealism" as much as realizing that pretty much nothing that she's taken for granted in her world is what it seems, including the fact that she's actually not regarded as a human being by the adult society. Oops. The things Tomiko has been telling her are pretty damn heavy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The human society in Shin Sekai Yori is a very stratified and heavily regulated one, but we shouldn't mistake that for one that's very concerned with morality for its own sake. It's much more like Orwell's 1984, where strict control is an end unto itself.

You mean Huxley's Brave New World, right? :3 Shinsekai yori's world doesn't have a lot to do with that of 1984...

If you remove the PK from Shinsekai yori the basic idea is: how can you achieve a peaceful utopia, knowing human nature? by creating a dystopia.

Triple_R · 2013-01-14, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I think it's not losing her "youthful idealism" as much as realizing that pretty much nothing that she's taken for granted in her world is what it seems, including the fact that she's actually not regarded as a human being by the adult society. Oops. The things Tomiko has been telling her are pretty damn heavy.

That's true. It's only natural that Saki would be shaken up a bit, and questioning a lot of things that she used to take for granted.

Quote:

You mean Huxley's Brave New World, right? :3 Shinsekai yori's world doesn't have a lot to do with that of 1984...

Well, I guess given the whole bonobos thing, and heavy mental manipulation at play, yeah, it's more like Huxley's Brave New World.

View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10	9	20.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	19	42.22%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	12	26.67%
7 out of 10 : Good	5	11.11%
6 out of 10 : Average	0	0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

2013-01-14, 03:18	Link #64
Eragon Still Alive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere far far away Age: 30	You know this is getting tiring........ __________________ Signature courtesy of rikikai

2013-01-14, 05:26	Link #65
Gohan78 Awakened One Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Northern Italy	We are quick to put the Queerats in the villain role because Squealer is a manipulative little bastard and he is using our protagonists, but are they really in the wrong? In my opinion they have every right to rebel against the humans. They are basically slaves, forced to do humiliating jobs and stripped of every human right. They are an intelligent species and should be granted freedom. What they did to the Queen is akin to overthrowing an insane absolute monarch and establish a democracy. Sure, keeping her restrained to be used as a breeding factory is despicable but it can't be helped if she's their only means of reproduction. If there will be a revolution, I am rooting for the Queerats. __________________ Tibi, magnum Innominandum, signa stellarum nigrarum et bufaniformis Sadoquae sigilim. (De Vermis Mysteriis)

2013-01-14, 07:54	Link #70
Eragon Still Alive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere far far away Age: 30	If a total war breaks out between these two factions, especially if the Queercats get a hold of a human and get him/her under control then its pretty much gonna end with both races annihilating each other. __________________ Signature courtesy of rikikai

2013-01-14, 10:09	Link #72
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	I also don't really see the Queerats as villains, per se. Squealer certainly acts the role, but I can see where he has good, practical reasons for doing and saying what he does. And the other Queerats are acting in ways that make sense for their own survival. That being said, Saki and Satoru are clearly the protagonists of this work, and they're easy characters to get behind and root for. And so I will. __________________

2013-01-14, 03:11	Link #61
NoemiChan Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 36	The question is Who taught him Democracy? and one kind of Democracy is it?

2013-01-14, 03:16	Link #63
NoemiChan Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 36	I guess the Yuri shippers are disappointed.. *hides

2013-01-14, 06:01	Link #68
-Sho- ~Omedetô~ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !	Squealer might be the vilain here but the humans society aren't better too. I want them to win the rebellion & to wake up people from their dream life.

2013-01-14, 09:06	Link #71
mangamuscle formerly ogon bat Join Date: May 2011 Location: Mexico Age: 53	As for querats being human, I think they are heavily modified blind moles (which are rats). I remember from an episode of Joshiraku how Kukuru talks about blind moles being matriarchal by nature.

2013-01-14, 10:59	Link #73
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	One thing that struck me here was how Saki was starting to question the concept of absolute morality. She was already going down the path of questioning whether humanity's habit of imposing their own ethics onto everyone and everything led to many of the problems society is facing now, not any less of that the potential threat the Queerats are likely to pose to the now limited and wavering human society. It's already looking like a clash of two human-like societies: The powerful but conservative and fewer Old Humanity (Cantus users) versus the low intellect but progressive and numerous New Humanity (Queerrats). __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2013-01-14, 13:29	Link #74
Eragon Still Alive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere far far away Age: 30	I too think there is no villain or hero in this show. Its not that shallow that you can just point a finger at someone and say they are the villain. Everyone has perfectly good or reasonable reasons to do the things that they do. __________________ Signature courtesy of rikikai

2013-01-14, 14:08	Link #76
Eragon Still Alive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere far far away Age: 30	^ Where the hell did you get those names from? __________________ Signature courtesy of rikikai

2013-01-14, 15:25	Link #77
taichi-kun Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	The PK villages should control more the rats cities... Also I think maria-mamoru will join the rats in the future.. because they can't survive alone..