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~~I_am_Kami~~ · 2011-01-12, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

No, what I mean is that after certain point science doesn't matters anymore.

I guess u mean it hits DIVINE after science can't explain it.

Miraluka · 2011-01-12, 22:06

Yeah, due science (of our world) can't do anything to explain the science (of Toaru's world) after getting up to divine levels.

kitten320 · 2011-01-30, 13:09

Better question would be what can block his arm, it starts to get annoying -_-

~~I_am_Kami~~ · 2011-01-30, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitten320

Better question would be what can block his arm, it starts to get annoying -_-

Punching it,pounding it,shocking it,anything not supernatural. DON'T slice it off though. If u do ur dead or will shit urself or have ur chest feel so tight it might rip from the fear of what'll happen.

DarkSide Hero · 2011-01-31, 01:59

How was he able to stop the explosion in episode 7 of Railgun when the explosion was a side effect of the can collapsing on itself?

Chaos2Frozen · 2011-01-31, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSide Hero

How was he able to stop the explosion in episode 7 of Railgun when the explosion was a side effect of the can collapsing on itself?

The explosion created directly through an esper power still counts as supernatural, otherwise the heat from supernatural fire or lightning can still hurt him.

~~I_am_Kami~~ · 2011-01-31, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSide Hero

How was he able to stop the explosion in episode 7 of Railgun when the explosion was a side effect of the can collapsing on itself?

Now if the can had shards shooting at him he cant stop that.

tsunade666 · 2011-01-31, 07:10

he can still stop it because the force behind it is the impact of the explosion created by the super natural ability but the problem is if the fragment is strips in sharp edge.

Cosmic Eagle · 2011-02-02, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

Punching it,pounding it,shocking it,anything not supernatural. DON'T slice it off though. If u do ur dead or will shit urself or have ur chest feel so tight it might rip from the fear of what'll happen.

Hell I think don't do anything to the arm...best chance anyone in the series have so far of taking him down may be those thugs in the first ep....

giorno · 2011-02-03, 11:03

meh, pretty sure Kaori would have had a better chance, if she wanted to...also, misha and tsuchimikado

GourryGabriev29 · 2012-03-30, 00:30

First of all I have only seen the anime and some of the manga untranslated. not sure if the light novels and manga will be translated now that Funimation has picked up season 1 of Index and the Rail-gun side story series, but one can hope.. Anyway I looked at all posts and Touma and what he can block and yeah i know its an old dead topic but i just had to put my opinion on something I did not see posted.

In Regards to Mikoto's Rail-gun attack, depending if what you go by(again only see less than most of you) he can seemingly block her attack with his right hand. Now was this do to an error in the creator or was it intentional because Touma is a main character and face it Mikoto's rail-gun could kill. It certainly will injure, take for example last episode in the Rail-gun anime. She fired it first at Gensei's granddaughter, who stated she knew all attack pattern and the rail-gun with the coin has a range of 50 meters, yet Mikoto states that coins are not the only thing she can use and then of course uses part of the broken mech arm. Does this change things for Touma or not, no one really can say.

Also in regards to Touma, was it instinct that he put his right hand up to stop her attack or was it something more. again debatable. but one thing I think we all can agree on is that if his right hand was not planned in each occurrence to stop her attack, most likely he would be hurt by her rail-gun since it wold hit someplace other that his hand.

But of course with all that is said and done in both the manga, novels and anime chances are slim to none that that will ever be seen or read happening.

judasmartel · 2012-03-30, 01:38

I guess that's why the Index anime changed it to Mikoto shocking Touma instead of firing Railgun at him.

hao-sama · 2012-03-30, 05:22

touma has precognition. he'll probably react to mikoto's powers without fail unless there were extenuating circumstances.

there are multiple evidences that touma can block a railgun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volume 1

"If my right hand comes into contact with... any special ability, be it a nuke-level fireball or a tactical railgun, even a miracle of God can be dispelled."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volume 9

―You…you just wait and see……! I‘ll make you regret saying that the loser has to play a penalty game and obey the winner!!

"……What will she do to me……? Wait…wait a minute. Don‘t tell me she‘s going to play railgun catching with me (with me being the catcher) until the sun sets? I don‘t want to play this sort of catching game with her……!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volume 10

Hearing such an exaggerated voice, Mikoto‘s body starts to tremble. Thunder roars as blue and white sparks emit from her body. Even if she releases a lightning strike, it‘ll be ineffective against that boy.

It seems that even the railgun won‘t hurt him.

although we have this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volume 1

If that girl's ESP "Railgun" was the result of a strange talent, then it was no exception.

However, Kamijou's [Imagine Breaker] only works on the power of strange talents. To put it simply, it protects him from an ESP's fireball, but not the ash and smoke the fireball created. Its effectiveness was also limited to "from the right wrist onward"; if any other place were to be hit by that fireball, it would be consumed by flames.

well... smoke and ash is created when a fireball actually hits or burns something. fire by itself in superpowers don't make those.

as for the graviton explosion, i believe that the explosion itself is from the energy released when the gravitons were accelerated. wouldn't protect him from shrapnel though, but i'm pretty sure any stray aluminum would've melted from a blast of that power.

~~I_am_Kami~~ · 2012-03-30, 16:02

oh god this topic again.

wavehawk · 2016-07-23, 07:31

I've been having some dumb ideas pop up and this is probably the best thread for it.

Can Touma's ability block superpowers? EG Marvel and DC Superpowered characters. I don't know if they fall upon the same train of thought as magic or Psi abilities.

I mean obviously if he hits a character like the DC Captain Marvel (AKA Shazam), Touma can probably punch him out and deactivate his superhero form (as that character is powered by magic). And its already established he can beat psychics in his on story world, so Touma could probably beat characters like Magneto or even the Phoenix Force.

But what about other weird powers? Obviously, his ability won't help him against clearly technological devices like Iron Man's armors. Can he probably even stop the Juggernaut (powers coming from the Ruby Crystal of Cytorrak)? Can he be able to block Superman's Heat Vision? Or the Human Torch's flame?

...I'm also wondering if he and Emiya Shirou did a fistbump, would that cause an explosion?

OH&S · 2016-07-23, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavehawk

I've been having some dumb ideas pop up and this is probably the best thread for it.

Can Touma's ability block superpowers? EG Marvel and DC Superpowered characters. I don't know if they fall upon the same train of thought as magic or Psi abilities.

I mean obviously if he hits a character like the DC Captain Marvel (AKA Shazam), Touma can probably punch him out and deactivate his superhero form (as that character is powered by magic). And its already established he can beat psychics in his on story world, so Touma could probably beat characters like Magneto or even the Phoenix Force.

But what about other weird powers? Obviously, his ability won't help him against clearly technological devices like Iron Man's armors. Can he probably even stop the Juggernaut (powers coming from the Ruby Crystal of Cytorrak)? Can he be able to block Superman's Heat Vision? Or the Human Torch's flame?

...I'm also wondering if he and Emiya Shirou did a fistbump, would that cause an explosion?

I could never have imagined that this sub-forum would be used again...

In short, it really depends on what the source of the supernatural power is.

Let's say for example, mutants. They get their powers from the X-gene, right? (I really haven't read too deep into the lore...) If that's the case, isn't their power natural in some sense? In cases like those, I doubt Imagine Breaker would be effective. Unless there's some deeper lore about the X-gene that I don't know about.

The same thing applies to Superman's powers and the Fantastic 4.

On the other hand, if Juggernaut gets his powers from some external crystal then Imagine Breaker should be effective. The catch is if the crystal is continuously supplying power to him externally. In that case, it would be just like in the case with Innocentius in Episode 2; IB 'works' but Innocentius is continuously replenished due to the runes spread around the balcony.

An easier scenario where I see Imagine Breaker being effective would be in the world of Harry Potter. 3 unforgivable curses would be completely useless against Kamijou.

Truly a character that can break the mechanics of one fictional world but can get his ass handed to him in another.

wavehawk · 2016-07-29, 07:12

Not too sure about mutants, because psychic abilities (in Marvel Comics) are considered mutant abilities (X-men) or Magical abilities (Dr Strange). And Touma's proven capable of messing with psychic abilities.

(Mental note: Don't write a story where Touma interferes with Doctoer Strange's missions. It won't end well)

And that's what gets me--I'm trying to find out how to write this in a way that it sounds plausible and not at random. Magic abilities are easier for me to excuse--it's Magic, IB stops it. Good. But if it's a non-magical abiltiy, where does the line get drawn between can/can't block?

As you mentioned, magical abilities are definitely cancelled out by IB but can be circumvented. (Makes me wonder what would happen if Touma was thrown into the Fate: Stay/Night universe---most likely this has already been argued to death by other people, so I'm not going there). Worst problem: Scarlet Witcfh--even Marvel can't seem to stick to whether her powers are mutant abilties of actual magic.

DragonXX · 2016-07-31, 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavehawk

Not too sure about mutants, because psychic abilities (in Marvel Comics) are considered mutant abilities (X-men) or Magical abilities (Dr Strange). And Touma's proven capable of messing with psychic abilities.

(Mental note: Don't write a story where Touma interferes with Doctoer Strange's missions. It won't end well)

And that's what gets me--I'm trying to find out how to write this in a way that it sounds plausible and not at random. Magic abilities are easier for me to excuse--it's Magic, IB stops it. Good. But if it's a non-magical abiltiy, where does the line get drawn between can/can't block?

As you mentioned, magical abilities are definitely cancelled out by IB but can be circumvented. (Makes me wonder what would happen if Touma was thrown into the Fate: Stay/Night universe---most likely this has already been argued to death by other people, so I'm not going there). Worst problem: Scarlet Witcfh--even Marvel can't seem to stick to whether her powers are mutant abilties of actual magic.

This is just by guess but I believe Touma would be about to stop X-Man power but people like Captain America and Spiderman his power would be useless on but IT may be about to because at least from NT14 and NT15 IT was about to hurt Kamisato really bad. There also a limit to what IB can take like he couldn't destory Fiamma 40km flame sword and Accel Black Wings. One thing is that it does not seen like there any Magical item he can't destory if broking only two fingers to destory Gungnir a Spear that destory the universe when throw still broke when it touch Touma hand.
So he could destory the Infinity Stones just by touching them.

Also if I was to guess if he touch the Phoenix Force it would not be destory it, may take Jean out of it but it may failled too because he couldn't destory Mikoto Lvl 6 shift form, it just come down to if energy is going into it nonstop or not.

There ways around his power like Thor moving the whole Earth and not going after Touma himself which Magic.We also know that Touma could stop a Railgun by Mikoto but could not stop things when Accel throw them at him which his power

Also if we use the Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom he maybe about to do something against Doctor Doom power.

From NT2 we know that Touma does do damage to the ley lines but because energy is going into it nonstop even if it destory for a bit it come back and this is how they were about to have the giant thing follow Touma by tracking the destorying and returning ley lines.

LevelSeven · 2016-07-31, 07:32

^mutants shouldnt get their powers negated since they come from their gens,

the problem is that the limits between "supernatural/not-supernatural" are really hard to judge in other verses,
in toaru everything that isnt following the physical laws is supernatural,
in naruto they have chakra that comesfrom the energy their cells emit combined with the energy their souls emit (in their verse this stuff is totally normal so they shouldnt be negated),
in one piece the people use Haki which is simply the manifestation of theirWill-power, that is also not supernatural,

harry potter uses magic which is also labelled supernatural so it should be negated,
FT uses magic too but to be honest it seems more like a weak explanation to give any char the most crazy stuff the people can think of, but even in their verse despite naming it magic, it isnt supernatural in their verse...

hunter x hunter has aura/nen which is simply their life force controlled, in their verse it is totally normal since every human has that energy but simply doesnt use it,
World trigger also has a energy source coming from a invisible organ inside their body, Trion, it allows different stuff depending on the trigger used but in their verse it isnt supernatural either...

i guess to judge what can be negated and what cant she should simply look at "does it seem to supernatural-like or not", for example: Beast from x-men cant get his powers negated while cyclops gets his laser beams negated,
Nightcrawler should get his teleport-power negated while still having his blue skin and devil-like look (and the enhanced reflexes/body/etc)

wavehawk · 2016-08-01, 06:35

On Doctor Doom--he may be able to negate Doctor Doom's magical abilities but not his scientific-based abilities. Remember that Doom's armor is actually technological (and really pisses Tony Stark off).

But yeah, how the specific 'world' handles powers is going to matter. By extension, does that mean that in a world wherein magic is treated kind of like science Okay I'll say it: Nanoha then Touma's abilities would be useless? I mean, it Is 'Magic', but it's not seen or treated as all that supernatural.

And taken a step further, does that mean the Demons/devils in Devilman (and...worse examples of demons and monsters in anime) are technically not supernatural and Touma would be equally ueless against them?

2011-01-12, 22:06	Link #462
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	Yeah, due science (of our world) can't do anything to explain the science (of Toaru's world) after getting up to divine levels. Last edited by Miraluka; 2012-03-30 at 08:20. Reason: TYPO

2011-01-30, 13:09	Link #463
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Better question would be what can block his arm, it starts to get annoying -_- __________________ My anime list

2011-01-31, 01:59	Link #465
DarkSide Hero Hero From the Darkside Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas	How was he able to stop the explosion in episode 7 of Railgun when the explosion was a side effect of the can collapsing on itself? __________________ The woman yelled over her shoulder to her husband watching a game to ask who she was voting for. He responded, "we're votin' for the n*er!" The woman turned back to the canvasser and said matter-of-factly, "we're voting for the ner." In this economy, racism is officially a luxury.*

2011-01-31, 07:10	Link #468
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	he can still stop it because the force behind it is the impact of the explosion created by the super natural ability but the problem is if the fragment is strips in sharp edge. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2016-07-23, 07:31	Link #475
wavehawk Some say I'm the Reverse Join Date: Jul 2006	I've been having some dumb ideas pop up and this is probably the best thread for it. Can Touma's ability block superpowers? EG Marvel and DC Superpowered characters. I don't know if they fall upon the same train of thought as magic or Psi abilities. I mean obviously if he hits a character like the DC Captain Marvel (AKA Shazam), Touma can probably punch him out and deactivate his superhero form (as that character is powered by magic). And its already established he can beat psychics in his on story world, so Touma could probably beat characters like Magneto or even the Phoenix Force. But what about other weird powers? Obviously, his ability won't help him against clearly technological devices like Iron Man's armors. Can he probably even stop the Juggernaut (powers coming from the Ruby Crystal of Cytorrak)? Can he be able to block Superman's Heat Vision? Or the Human Torch's flame? ...I'm also wondering if he and Emiya Shirou did a fistbump, would that cause an explosion? __________________ "We haven't been properly introduced..."

2011-02-03, 11:03	Link #470
giorno Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009	meh, pretty sure Kaori would have had a better chance, if she wanted to...also, misha and tsuchimikado

2012-03-30, 00:30	Link #471
GourryGabriev29 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Worcester, Ma	First of all I have only seen the anime and some of the manga untranslated. not sure if the light novels and manga will be translated now that Funimation has picked up season 1 of Index and the Rail-gun side story series, but one can hope.. Anyway I looked at all posts and Touma and what he can block and yeah i know its an old dead topic but i just had to put my opinion on something I did not see posted. In Regards to Mikoto's Rail-gun attack, depending if what you go by(again only see less than most of you) he can seemingly block her attack with his right hand. Now was this do to an error in the creator or was it intentional because Touma is a main character and face it Mikoto's rail-gun could kill. It certainly will injure, take for example last episode in the Rail-gun anime. She fired it first at Gensei's granddaughter, who stated she knew all attack pattern and the rail-gun with the coin has a range of 50 meters, yet Mikoto states that coins are not the only thing she can use and then of course uses part of the broken mech arm. Does this change things for Touma or not, no one really can say. Also in regards to Touma, was it instinct that he put his right hand up to stop her attack or was it something more. again debatable. but one thing I think we all can agree on is that if his right hand was not planned in each occurrence to stop her attack, most likely he would be hurt by her rail-gun since it wold hit someplace other that his hand. But of course with all that is said and done in both the manga, novels and anime chances are slim to none that that will ever be seen or read happening.

2012-03-30, 01:38	Link #472
judasmartel Senior Member Author Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines	I guess that's why the Index anime changed it to Mikoto shocking Touma instead of firing Railgun at him.

2012-03-30, 16:02	Link #474
~~I_am_Kami~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The 305 Age: 30	oh god this topic again.

2016-07-29, 07:12	Link #477
wavehawk Some say I'm the Reverse Join Date: Jul 2006	Not too sure about mutants, because psychic abilities (in Marvel Comics) are considered mutant abilities (X-men) or Magical abilities (Dr Strange). And Touma's proven capable of messing with psychic abilities. (Mental note: Don't write a story where Touma interferes with Doctoer Strange's missions. It won't end well) And that's what gets me--I'm trying to find out how to write this in a way that it sounds plausible and not at random. Magic abilities are easier for me to excuse--it's Magic, IB stops it. Good. But if it's a non-magical abiltiy, where does the line get drawn between can/can't block? As you mentioned, magical abilities are definitely cancelled out by IB but can be circumvented. (Makes me wonder what would happen if Touma was thrown into the Fate: Stay/Night universe---most likely this has already been argued to death by other people, so I'm not going there). Worst problem: Scarlet Witcfh--even Marvel can't seem to stick to whether her powers are mutant abilties of actual magic. __________________ "We haven't been properly introduced..."

2016-07-31, 07:32	Link #479
LevelSeven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Germany	^mutants shouldnt get their powers negated since they come from their gens, the problem is that the limits between "supernatural/not-supernatural" are really hard to judge in other verses, in toaru everything that isnt following the physical laws is supernatural, in naruto they have chakra that comesfrom the energy their cells emit combined with the energy their souls emit (in their verse this stuff is totally normal so they shouldnt be negated), in one piece the people use Haki which is simply the manifestation of theirWill-power, that is also not supernatural, harry potter uses magic which is also labelled supernatural so it should be negated, FT uses magic too but to be honest it seems more like a weak explanation to give any char the most crazy stuff the people can think of, but even in their verse despite naming it magic, it isnt supernatural in their verse... hunter x hunter has aura/nen which is simply their life force controlled, in their verse it is totally normal since every human has that energy but simply doesnt use it, World trigger also has a energy source coming from a invisible organ inside their body, Trion, it allows different stuff depending on the trigger used but in their verse it isnt supernatural either... i guess to judge what can be negated and what cant she should simply look at "does it seem to supernatural-like or not", for example: Beast from x-men cant get his powers negated while cyclops gets his laser beams negated, Nightcrawler should get his teleport-power negated while still having his blue skin and devil-like look (and the enhanced reflexes/body/etc)

2016-08-01, 06:35	Link #480
wavehawk Some say I'm the Reverse Join Date: Jul 2006	On Doctor Doom--he may be able to negate Doctor Doom's magical abilities but not his scientific-based abilities. Remember that Doom's armor is actually technological (and really pisses Tony Stark off). But yeah, how the specific 'world' handles powers is going to matter. By extension, does that mean that in a world wherein magic is treated kind of like science Okay I'll say it: Nanoha then Touma's abilities would be useless? I mean, it Is 'Magic', but it's not seen or treated as all that supernatural. And taken a step further, does that mean the Demons/devils in Devilman (and...worse examples of demons and monsters in anime) are technically not supernatural and Touma would be equally ueless against them? __________________ "We haven't been properly introduced..."